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Posted: 4/18/2017 9:27:05 PM EDT
[#1]
4 mph is decent but doable.
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Posted: 4/18/2017 9:28:43 PM EDT
[#2]
It would suck wearing sandals, that's for sure.
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Posted: 4/18/2017 9:30:28 PM EDT
[#3]
But could they stick their hands in their pockets?
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Posted: 4/18/2017 9:30:40 PM EDT
[#4]
That's about the standard today, with many high speed types surpassing that.
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Posted: 4/18/2017 9:31:15 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But could they stick their hands in their pockets? |
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Posted: 4/18/2017 9:32:24 PM EDT
[#6]
Were they wearing their reflective belts?
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Posted: 4/18/2017 9:32:40 PM EDT
[#7]
Yeah that's doable. EIB road march is 12 miles in 3 hours with about 60 pounds of gear. I know a couple people who did it in 2 1/4 hours. We did a 25 mile in about 7.5 hours once which sucked ass but with enough training it's not too hard.
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Posted: 4/18/2017 9:34:13 PM EDT
[#8]
It wouldnt be easy for the vast majority of combat arms.
And fighting when the march ended would be damn near impossible without some rest. |
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Posted: 4/18/2017 9:34:52 PM EDT
[#9]
I'm not a soldier but dad was (Not Roman!!! ) He always asked, when questions like this came up from .civ people, "how much did you guys carry? how far? how fast? etc. "
Dad "road march or over uneven terrain? Weather? How much water do I have" All the details mattered to him. |
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Posted: 4/18/2017 9:36:23 PM EDT
[#10]
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Posted: 4/18/2017 9:36:31 PM EDT
[#11]
100 lbs with rough terrain would suck bad at 15 min per mile. Rucking along a road makes it quite a bit easier.
It's possible for those in shape, but it's not fun at all. I would say the majority of combat arms wouldn't be able to do it assuming it was off-road. |
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Posted: 4/18/2017 9:38:33 PM EDT
[#12]
12 miles in 3 hrs is the standard. That's "walking".....not your normal walk, more like a "mall walker"
We used to do it in just a little over 2 hrs. We'd run then walk the run then walk, etc. Airborne shuffle pace most of the way. 19 miles in 5 hrs is absolutely do-able. |
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Posted: 4/18/2017 9:39:07 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm not a soldier but dad was (Not Roman!!! ) He always asked, when questions like this came up from .civ people, "how much did you guys carry? how far? how fast? etc. " Dad "road march or over uneven terrain? Weather? How much water do I have" All the details mattered to him. The weight is pretty high especially considering the average Roman soldier wasn't that big of a guy. I think the weight may be a sort of "max" and not their typical load. |
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Posted: 4/18/2017 9:39:58 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryMade me a firm believer in the "pack light, freeze at night" mantra. pack water and bullets....it's all you need. |
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Posted: 4/18/2017 9:45:06 PM EDT
[#15]
Not sure now, long time ago. All Marine combat arms units had to do at least couple times a year a march 25 miles within 8 hours with weapon and full gear. We usually did 27-28 miles in 7 hours.
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Posted: 4/18/2017 9:45:12 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It would suck wearing sandals, that's for sure. |
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Posted: 4/18/2017 9:46:40 PM EDT
[#17]
Romans kicked ass.
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Posted: 4/18/2017 9:48:48 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fantastic book. Read it as a young LT. Might even still have it. Made me a firm believer in the "pack light, freeze at night" mantra. pack water and bullets....it's all you need. |
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Posted: 4/18/2017 9:49:17 PM EDT
[#19]
Off/sorta on topic... I went through infantry reclass and the ruck 12mi in 3 hours was a go/no-go event on day 2. If you didn't make it you retested on day 6.
I did NO training to prepare for this and used my admin boots on top of it. I started getting hot spots about mile 2, and by the end I had blisters on both heels half and again bigger than half dollars, both big toes, and both little toes.. I made with about 15-20 mins to spare. I made it but the rest of the course SUCKED! We had to do another 6 mile movement with about 85 -95 lbs of gear to our AA at the end of week 2. Just because you can do it doesn't mean you should. |
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Posted: 4/18/2017 9:50:44 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not sure now, long time ago. All Marine combat arms units had to do at least couple times a year a march 25 miles within 8 hours with weapon and full gear. We usually did 27-28 miles in 7 hours. |
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Posted: 4/18/2017 9:51:10 PM EDT
[#21]
They would also train with swords and shields that were 3x heavier than the real ones. This way they would be faster when using them and not tire as easily
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Posted: 4/18/2017 9:53:28 PM EDT
[#22]
Another big difference is that I'm pretty sure romans didn't have the hig speed rucks that we had. Waste belts really help distribute weight. 100 lbs in a 2000 year old design backpack would suck.
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Posted: 4/18/2017 10:07:16 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Another big difference is that I'm pretty sure romans didn't have the hig speed rucks that we had. Waste belts really help distribute weight. 100 lbs in a 2000 year old design backpack would suck. |
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Posted: 4/18/2017 10:18:12 PM EDT
[#24]
For training, yes, you could do that.
Thats a little fast for pratical work, as you wanted to be in shape to fight if you got ambushed, and at the end of the day you may need to dig in, build fortifications, etc. So PT is one thing; on campaign, 20 miles or so in 10 hours, plus fortifying, every day. Over and over again. Here is a good source: As the Roman Legionnaires could be expected to march up to 32 kilometres per day and then fortify their night camp, they needed to be physically conditioned for such a task.33 To prepare the Roman soldier to carry such loads and march long distances, Flavius Vegetius, in his work Epitoma rei militaris (Epitome of Military Science), recommended that recruits carry a load of up to 60 Roman pounds (19.6 kilograms), route marching at the ‘military step’ of 32 kilometres for five hours (a pace of 6.4 kilometres per hour) or at the ‘full step’ of 39 kilometres in the same time (a pace of 7.7 kilometres per hour).34 This load did not include the soldier’s clothing and weapons, and was designed to condition the soldier to carry rations as well as arms during campaigns.35 http://103.11.78.168/~/media/Files/Our%20future/LWSC%20Publications/AAJ/2010Winter/07-TheHistoryOfTheSoldiers.pdf |
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Posted: 4/18/2017 10:30:06 PM EDT
[#25]
Those long ass marches are dumb, at the end of it, no unit could possibly be combat effective.
It does not improve your health and fitness, in any way. It does more harm than good. When you have Infantry and SF guys with backs and knees of a 60 or 70 year old man, when they're only 40 years old. |
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Posted: 4/18/2017 10:33:59 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The firka wasn't a backpack, it was a pole with a bunch of their equipment packed on the end. Not too dissimilar from the bindle popular with hobos in the early 1900's. |
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Posted: 4/18/2017 10:35:01 PM EDT
[#27]
 
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Posted: 4/18/2017 10:38:57 PM EDT
[#28]
The acronym MCCRES still triggers my tourettes.
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Posted: 4/18/2017 10:39:39 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just googled that. That's 10 times worse than a 2000 year old backpack design. That would REALLY suck. You sure it was 100 lbs? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The firka wasn't a backpack, it was a pole with a bunch of their equipment packed on the end. Not too dissimilar from the bindle popular with hobos in the early 1900's. |
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Posted: 4/18/2017 10:41:03 PM EDT
[#30]
A marching pole? Damn.
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Posted: 4/18/2017 10:41:07 PM EDT
[#31]
MCCRES was ~26 miles and I don't remember how long it took. We left at night and got back to main side at sunrise.
Those sucked but the pace was manageable. The workups for MCMWTC sucked much ass. Those were some of the hardest foot movements I have ever done. |
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Posted: 4/18/2017 10:41:35 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But could they stick their hands in their pockets? 
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Posted: 4/18/2017 10:45:59 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The weight is pretty high especially considering the average Roman soldier wasn't that big of a guy. (Minimum in US military for males is 5 foot.) |
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Posted: 4/18/2017 10:51:21 PM EDT
[#34]
A roman mile was a thousand steps. That's where we got the word 'mile' from. I would want to double check the writers sources about how they did translations and conversions.
The one section comes to 20 U.S. miles per day with 43 pounds of gear plus armor and weapons. That's doable day after day. |
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Posted: 4/18/2017 10:58:37 PM EDT
[#35]
Totally doable by modern infantry. I've done 12 miles in under 3 hours many times when I was in.
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Posted: 4/18/2017 11:00:05 PM EDT
[#36]
It's doable, but it's a different type of fitness. I knew PT studs who would smoke me constantly on 2-5 mile runs but always fell behind on the longer ruck marches. My best 2 mile time was a 13:10, but I could really "embrace the suck" when the shitty physical stuff came around. Probably why my back mirrors that of a ww2 veteran
 .
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Posted: 4/18/2017 11:09:31 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's doable, but it's a different type of fitness. I knew PT studs who would smoke me constantly on 2-5 mile runs but always fell behind on the longer ruck marches. My best 2 mile time was a 13:10, but I could really "embrace the suck" when the shitty physical stuff came around. Probably why my back mirrors that of a ww2 veteran . |
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Posted: 4/18/2017 11:09:32 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryTHIS. The Legionnaires didn't carry the crippling rucks and weapons load our soldiers (like my cousin had to in Afghanistan) carry, they marched with their weapons and a basic bivouac loadout. They had supply trains and camp followers.
The soldier's load in WWII was a lot closer to the Roman load than the shit we pile on infantry today. The WWII Soldier's Load |
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Posted: 4/18/2017 11:09:48 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A roman mile was a thousand steps. That's where we got the word 'mile' from. I would want to double check the writers sources about how they did translations and conversions. The one section comes to 20 U.S. miles per day with 43 pounds of gear plus armor and weapons. That's doable day after day. Also, I think today's foot soldiers are bigger, better and faster then they have EVER been. We have so much better understanding of exercise, food and fighting disease. Not to mention, those crazy fuckers ATE lead, it was a popular "spice" in Roman culture. |
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Posted: 4/18/2017 11:10:54 PM EDT
[#40]
Its doable for sure. Not fun, but achievable.
Would straight suck cock carrying a pole though. |
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Posted: 4/18/2017 11:14:23 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
I was doing some reading on Roman warriors and it went into their physical.conditining. They routinely had to march 19 miles in 5 hours or less with about 100 lbs or so of kit on their back. Is this an extreme feat or is it doable by today's .mil training for combat arms guys? What were you reading that claimed 100lbs? 20 miles per Day with ~70lbs has been a standard since Roman times. Which is hardcore enough. No need to exaggerate anything. |
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Posted: 4/18/2017 11:19:00 PM EDT
[#42]
You got to think about the times also. They walked everywhere. My father walked 6 miles to school school and 6 miles back. Not flat land but over a mountain as it was closer then around. It was normal for him. My 5 year old can't walk around the mall without complaining.
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Posted: 4/18/2017 11:24:46 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A marching pole? Damn. |
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Posted: 4/18/2017 11:34:59 PM EDT
[#44]
The must have been itching to chuck those pilums at the enemy after carrying them for weeks on march.
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Posted: 4/18/2017 11:42:31 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wonder if that's as uncomfortable as it sounds? We're talking about an era where every leather or textile craftsman would be considered an artist by our standards. They had satchels and the like. There must've been some reason for them to choose the pole over a pack. The Romans prized efficiency, maybe there was something to there method that we dismiss so easily. Then again, it could be like native Americans never discovering a practical use for the wheel... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
A marching pole? Damn. |
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Posted: 4/18/2017 11:49:41 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You got to think about the times also. They walked everywhere. My father walked 6 miles to school school and 6 miles back. Not flat land but over a mountain as it was closer then around. It was normal for him. My 5 year old can't walk around the mall without complaining. |
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Posted: 4/18/2017 11:53:49 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Minimum height for Legionaries was 5'5" so they weren't tiny. (Minimum in US military for males is 5 foot.) |
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Posted: 4/19/2017 12:01:45 AM EDT
[#48]
4mph with 100 pounds of gear, crappy load bearing equipment, and in sandals doesn't sound like it was a regular standard/realistic. Roman soldiers weren't as big as your average American soldier either nor did they have as healthy a diet. 100 pounds in gear would have been a very big deal.
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Posted: 4/19/2017 12:02:11 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Driving past a column of marching soldiers today I would swear they had a 10y/o girl in the formation. Her head didn't reach the shoulder of the soldier next to her. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Minimum height for Legionaries was 5'5" so they weren't tiny. (Minimum in US military for males is 5 foot.) So I guess he was a giant dwarf. |
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Posted: 4/19/2017 12:04:40 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Driving past a column of marching soldiers today I would swear they had a 10y/o girl in the formation. Her head didn't reach the shoulder of the soldier next to her. Yeah, you're still a prick......and I hate you. But you have me respect, sir. |
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