Any body ever tried to shoot a brake disc(roter) and crack it through the rim? Because engine block shots, radiator shots and tire shots all dont work the car can still go. What did you use? round and bullet?

It would depend on whether I had already changed into my green lantern, super- hero alter-ego, crime- fighting costume.

Try the brake pedel.

I was actually quite surprised over the weekend, I actually shot one of the disc brake rotors from my 95 Ranger.

Before going on a trip to SLO. CA. I needed to replace my very well "ringed" rotors from when my pads wore down to the rotors, I figured since I was going shooting I might as well take the discs along as target.


My buddy had gotten a new Remington Marine Magnum 870 and we were out to test it's pattern and have some fun.  We were surprised to see that at a distance of about 15 yards the OO buckshot actually did some decent cratering to the disc brake surface, nothing that would cause a car to come to a stop I'm sure.

Next up were the 12 gauge slugs, the sheer kenetic force of the 12gauge 1oz rifle slug was enough to knock a hole right through the center portion of the rotor.  It wasn't a hole caused by sheer velocity but it was a fractured hole caused by kenetic energy being imparted onto the metal by the lead sledgehammer that is a 12gauge slug.


I didn't get to test out my AR10 in 308 Winchester or one of my AR15s because we were in the wrong area to be using a high powered rifle.   I would expect that a 5.56x45mm round wouldn't have much trouble with a disc brake rotor where it would atleast penetrate through one side and possibly the second side, 308/7.62Nato I'm not so sure about but there is the kenetic energy there.


Shooting and expecting to damage the rotors is a complete unknown in my mind, on my Ford Ranger the wheels are designed so that there isn't really much of an opening for getting a clear shot at the rotor or the caliper.  The wheel is also a fairly thick aluminum, sure aluminum is softer but it's also pretty thick so it's gonna scrub off a lot of velocity.


Two places I'd aim for?  I'd aim more for the brake pad/caliper area to try and do damage there, aiming for the rotors might just make a kind of "redneck vented disc rotor" where it's not damaged enough to cause a quick failure, a good hit to the pads where the material is shattered would likely cause problems much quicker and if the caliper managed to be damage it's gonna stop working or create problems even faster.    The other place I'd aim for if I had to do it is actually above the wheel where all the electronics are placed these days along with the master cylinder for the brakes, take out the master cylinder and the brakes will slowly bleed out all of that good stuff that they need to work properly.


With electronics as abundant as they are in cars these days a couple shots above the front wheel directly into the engine compartment is likely to do more damage: nail the radiator, nail some of the fuze boxes, take out something like the master cylinder, maybe a ricochette could take out a fuel line or clip a spark plug wire.

Wheels are fairly well armoured in my opinion, atleast on my truck.

if you are talking about stopping a moveing vehicle by shooting the brakes, it wont. all you would do is keep the driver from stopping the car when he finally decided to.

a 2x4 with lots of nails in it works just fine for makeing the driver think twice.

Ummmm... try shooting the driver.... hmmm....

I now understand your name.

[smoke]

.50 BMG to the engine block ought to do something.

This is an area that I have much experience in. Here in the desert, cars just accumulate. Then with the application of much firepower, they begin to disintigrate. The cool thing is, we get to shoot everything from windshields,engine blocks, rotors, rims, tires. Rifles in any respectable caliber is cool as hell to watch rippin' up a car. They all break things real nice.

I whould like to see some pics.  Engine blocks roter, that kind of stuf.

Why not shoot at the driver?

Excuse:

Sorry your honor, I was shooting at the tires. It seems I am a bad shot and all 30 of my rounds hit the driver instead. I guess I need to practice more in trying to hit a moving target.

Shoot the nut that holds the wheel-good one!!!
It works on so many levels...

Be sure to shoot the brakes out on the car so the guy runs you over for sure.

speaking of kinetic energy, assuming you bend warp or rupture the rotor, whats the energy of the rotational torque of the wheel which is externally powered by the 4000lb vehicle moving forward at 60, going to do to the whole caliper assembly? Rip it off! Aim for the rear diff, or assuming you have ninja skills to do that, forego firearms alltogether do matrix style arms extended dive through the back window, through the drivers seat through the driving bg's back and out his chest and firmly plant both fists on the brake pedal not only do you save the day, but you look cool with a bg impaled through the chest by your upper torso you jump out of the slain deathmobile to a crowd of cheering teen girls wearing this asshole around your waist. thats what I'd do anyway.

Shooting the rotor will not cause the car to stop.  All it will do is put the equivalent of enormous runout on the disk, and the calipers will open up to accomodate it.  All you will accomplish is to disable that one braking circuit.  Since the car has two braking circuits (It has not escaped the notice of automotive engineers that brakes are critical to the safe operation of a vehicle) it will still stop, although not as well.  You would better off taking a low shot at the radiator.  You can't miss that and you might puncture the oil pan in the bargain.  Loss of cooling and oil will stop the car eventually.

BTW, if one is a good enough shot to hit the rotor on a moving vehicle, why not just shoot the keys out of the ignition?

If my advanced beginner on-line correspondence rotational kinematics course is correct-unless the rotor is pretty much broken the rotor will not fly apart as it is not rotating fast enough RPM wise-or something.  Besides, the guy may have a horn installed like The Dukes of Hazard car that when pressed, will play "Dixiland" and make your car jump over any imposing obstacle (including you).  When this happens you simply shoot straight up under the bottom of the car and plase a shot inside the automatic transmission pick up tube, plugging the fluid in the tranny rendering the car immobile.  I did this in a mall once when some terrorists were holding the mayors son hostage....

The book Combat Loads details the results of shooting various calibers at engine blocks, car doors and other hardened targets.  As I've said probably too many time already, this is the reason I switched calibers.  Energy and mass being necessary, I switched out of .223.

In almost all cases, engine block are nearly impossible to effectively disable except with the largest magnum calibers.  Car doors can be penetrated effectively with .30 caliber rounds (.308 / .30-06) but not .223.

I'd forget the brakes altogether.  Viable targets in the engine compartment are the distributer, hard to hit unseen and possibly moving target.  If shooting a .50, you can disable the engine by hitting the cylinder wall, otherwise, most targets in the engine compartment are too difficult to hit unseen.

You're better off targeting the driver as Caption Obvious has said.  Read the book, the author does a fair, but unscientific job of testing on various targets and various caliber / load combinations.  Makes your rethink your capabilities with your current inventory.

Or... you could get about 50-60 people together all armed with semi-automatic and fully automatic weapons, tell them "get Woody!" and within seconds the car would be stopped, on fire and the driver would either be toast or extremely happy to give himself up! [:D]

after some careful consideration and graphed equations I've come to the realization that  the matrix style dive I spoke of earlier can only successfully be accomplished if one is flying through the air towards the rear-window at twice the speed of the moving car, BUT if you are not wearing your window-punching-diamond-tac-rings on both middle fingers (not ring fingers) you would need to add to your speed twice the airspeed of an unladen-swallow (europoean), or once the speed of an unladen swallow if you're wearing only one tac-ring or if both of them are on your ring fingers.

While shooting up an abandoned car in the desert, my cousin ripped off a .38LRN into a glove box from the outside (with the cars hood open.) It bounced off three surfaces and returned to hit him right in the place you don't wanna get hit with a ricochet. He doubled over and caught the slug as it was sliding off of his pants.He's the only person I know to actually catch a bullet,or to shoot himself in the package. Needles to say, .38's aren't suitable for use against cars or crotches.

one of those south african 20mm sniper rifles would do fine, those things are cool.

You guys obviously haven't learned anything about bullet mass, velocity, kinetic energy, or basic material compositon. I suggest you all watch the A-Team an excellent source of instruction on stopping automobiles.

BMB

IF I'm setting a roadblock, I already have my .50cal. If I'm being chased my gun wielding madman, I shot the driver or the gunner. If I'm chasing a car that I have to stop without the luxury of backup. I go for the tires... or I may miss and hit the gas tank with a tracer.

By the way there is a cool movie at www.bmwusa.com  I will post the link when i find it.

Did Firequest marketed a steel 12ga slug they call "roadblock"?

The local Feds video taped shooting up car with a dummy laying on the floor board. They used SMGs, 9mm HKs 870s with 00 buck-40 cals-9mm pistols. After shooting they took the dummy out of the car-it had no wounds-they then drove the vehicle off. It did have some flat tires. They used this tape as a training aid showing what it takes to stop the vehicle. If you do shoot a person who is driving a vehicle, or shoot the vehicle to cause it to go out of control-you are now responsible for a 2 ton plus out of control projectile. Can you say law suit?

LMAO, now I understand why you have the handle Weiseguy. [:D]

That's great, man, timeless. [:)]

To whoever said .223 won't shoot through a car door, have you done this and had it fail? I know for a fact that 55gr ball will shoot through both sides of ammo cans, straight through 55 gallon oil drums, through both sides of old style military steel pot helmets, as well as through the side glass on cars. Can you explain how a bullet will not go through something I can go through with a nail? If a steel 55 gallon oil drum won't stop it, a piece of crap 1/8" thick piece of body paneling sure as hell won't. Just my opinion, 'cause I'd give proper lead and aim for the drivers door. [sniper]

To whoever said .223 won't shoot through a car door, have you done this and had it fail? I know for a fact that 55gr ball will shoot through both sides of ammo cans, straight through 55 gallon oil drums, through both sides of old style military steel pot helmets, as well as through the side glass on cars. Can you explain how a bullet will not go through something I can go through with a nail? If a steel 55 gallon oil drum won't stop it, a piece of crap 1/8" thick piece of body paneling sure as hell won't. Just my opinion, 'cause I'd give proper lead and aim for the drivers door. [sniper]

Well, there is quite a bit of material in the door actually.  If you've got power windows there's a lot of gears, levers, and other crap within the door frame for the bullet to bounce or deflect off of.   Even my old truck with it's manual windows had a lot of metal inside the door where the metal gears and reinforcements were for the window to slide up and down when you roll it up or down.


It's not just an exterior and interior piece of sheet metal, it's got some other crap in there not only for the window but now car companies are putting in side impact collision reinforcements.

Might as well go for the window so you can break it out and the follow up shots won't have much to deal with, through the door each bullet stands a chance of deflection.

The only real way to stop a car is with a physical barrier. A car can drive with no oil pressure for a very long time (even if you're not using Castrol Syntec), and the same goes for coolant and gear lube in the rearend. Trust me on that one, I opened up a rearend to seal the diff cover, and maybe 2-3 ounces came out (leaving a pancake-sized puddle in the drain pan.) It had been like that for quite some time, judging by the color and smell.

However, with newer cars the electronics are a vulnerable area, and a high-voltage power surge will fry them, killing the fuel injection computer and everything else. To protect against this, isolate everything from ground, and run a 2-wire system where everything goes back to B-. Ask anyone who's put a fiberglass body on a Jeep how this is done. Or just tear into a British car.

How's about shooting at the cars battery.  Of course the hard part is knowing where it is at.  I was thinking if you can disable the battery, the car's electrical system will shut down due the resulting dc voltage drop.  If not you could always try for the gas tank.  He will either run out of gas in 20 minutes, or 2 and 1/16 of a second. ooooooooooops  

A car will basically run until it's shut off with the battery destroyed, as long as it has a functioning alternator. If the vehice is a non-computer-controlled diesel with a mechanical fuel shutoff, it'll run forever without a battery OR alternator as long as you don't need to start it again or use your headlights. Diesels with electrical fuel shutoffs will stop running when the battery can't supply the voltage needed to energize the fuel shutoff solenoid.

Basically, nothing you can do to a car, short of damaging the engine or transmission badly enough that they immediately lock up or causing it to run into a stationary object, will stop the car quickly.

You'll need some double-ought buck, and you'll need to try and knock the carburetor/injector system off the engine, or the distributor if it is front-mounted, as in a Ford.

FITTER out

Can't you just shoot the gas tank?  Tracers maybe?

Well God damnit! I guess you will just have to shoot the God damned driver!  In self defense of course!

Beware old car parts!
Too funny that guy getting hit in the package. Imagine the hospital guys would laugh for days over that.
The only time my friends and I have been hit by our own bullets is shooting up car parts.
Make sure you are far enough away.
Dead on, I would go for the radiator.
A side shot, I would go for the front windoew to hit the driver.
Rear Shot, I would go for the back window and driver.
MAybe tomorrow I will research your problem further and test my new .308 on some abandoned cars in the area.