I've been doing a lot of truck shopping lately. I don't think I'll buy in the next month or two, and I'm on the fence about whether or not I'll buy anything at all, but I've been gathering information and crunching numbers. Most of what I've been looking at and comparing has been half ton trucks in an extended cab (not crew) configuration with four wheel drive and an optional engine (no NA V6s). I've been looking at the base trim or one level up with a couple options.

I haven't made any direct contact with dealers. I've only looked at the pricing they are openly advertising on their webpages.

The F-150 and the Silverado both seem to have an advertised price around $31k-$33k depending upon a few specifics. The Toyota dealers are less transparent, and selection is more limited, but their webpages seem to point to a price point in the high 30s for a similar truck. The new generation of the Titan is too new, and I'm only seeing a handful of the highest trim available locally. That leaves the Ram 1500...

Looking at two local dealers, it looks like the Ram 1500 in a "Quad Cab" configuration with 4x4 and the 5.7L Hemi starts at an advertised price round $25k. Most of those have steel wheels, the flat black front bumper, and the 6 speed transmission. Examples with the 8 speed transmission, alloy wheels, and a painted or chrome front bumper can be had for ~$27k. Compared to the Silverado and the F-150, that's a difference of $5-7k or ~20%. That's huge.

So, this is the part where we all acknowledge these trucks are most likely cheaper for a reason. Or, reasons, because there are likely multiple contributors. The current Ram 1500 is an older design, and there hasn't been a lot of product development. Some are built in Mexico. But the elephant in the room is the discussion of quality. Chrysler, in its various forms, has not had a good reputation for quality. The people I talk to locally see that, and many here on ar15.com will enthusiastically point that out. I'm expecting hit and run anti-Chrysler posts before I even post this thread. But the people that try to quantify quality seem a bit more mixed.

First up is Consumer Reports. They're subscription based, and I don't have a subscription, so I can't see specifics, but the bests and worsts tend to get published by third parties. CR has the FCA brands at the bottom of their rankings which doesn't surprise me, but what does surprise me is that they have Ram at the bottom below Dodge and Fiat. I'm wondering how that happened. Are the "Promaster" vans tanking? Is there some major flaw with the trucks? Or do they just weight issues differently?



Bloomberg.com Source Link

At the other end of the spectrum is the J.D. Power Vehicle Dependability Study. This study is based on 3 years of ownership, so vehicles reported were sold in 2013. One of the complaints about methodology with these guys is that there doesn't seem to be any weighting between minor stuff like infotainment malfunctions and mechanical failures. They record reported trouble of any kind.

They have most of the FCA brands a bit more spread out with Ram actually falling above the industry average:



J.D. Power Source Link

I expected Ram to outrank most of the FCA brands because they're not saddled by the more problematic products like the Dart and Journey.

My third point of reference is interesting. Some guys have built a database of over 1M used vehicles that have been through auto auctions. It's called the Long Term Quality Index. For better or for worse, they only look at powertrain issues. They also haven't separated Ram from Dodge yet.

Here's brands as a whole:


Here's fullsize trucks:


And here's a link to the Ram specific stuff: http://longtermqualityindex.com/vehicles/Dodge_Ram.html

The spread in reporting and the differences in what some people say make it difficult to form any kind of conclusion. It's easy to say that FCA, in general, is very much a below average manufacturer. But when you look specifically at the Ram 1500, it seems to be less at the dumpster fire end of the spectrum, and a bit more average. Perhaps it can even be said that it's above average because it's average for a truck, and trucks often have better longevity than cars. All that said, if someone found a flawless way to quantify the quality of vehicles objectively, and they found that the Ram 1500 is objectively a worse truck than the F-150 or the Silverado, it wouldn't surprise me.

But what if we weigh the risk vs cost? We know that any of the Ram 1500's competitors are going to cost ~$6k more. That's a significant margin to compensate for. Anything that happens under warranty will be fixed under warranty. Even if after the warranty expired, you had to spend the better part of $2k to fix something major like a transmission, you still have a $4k savings, and that assumes that the competing Silverado or F-150 would have remained flawless. Under this logic, buying a Ram starts to make a lot more sense than I'd normally guess.

Is there something else in that ~$6k price difference I'm failing to consider? How do you weigh the pros and cons on this?

Cummins

my Rams have been flawless with years of hard assed driving on and off road.

Love my Ram.

In my life I've owned a Tundra, Chevy 1500, Ford F150, Ram 1500, and now Ram 2500.  Obviouslly the years vary but I have been most impressed with the Rams. They have had the least amount of problems and issues as opposed to the other ones.

Don't forget to factor in depreciation if that's something you're into. It'll drop like a rock with Chryco products. That's what got me into them in the first place. 

Let's mix the shittiest American car with the shittiest European one!!!

I own a cattle ranch. We run about 750 pairs.  Plus 5500 sheep. We typically have between 10 and 12 trucks running. 5 years ago we switched to using Ram. Overall maintenance costs have dropped. W had Ford and GM products before. I can honestly say, it will be a cold day in hell before I ever even look at another GM. Ford was bad enough with the 6 liter POS. but at least they stood behind their product. GM used every possible excuse and loophole in their warranty to get away from fixing their shit.

I fucking hate a Dodge/Ram but my 14' Ram 1500 is a bad bitch!  It's a love hate relationship but I've beat the ever living shit out of it thus far and it's just a fine truck!  I tend to not put a lot into what others say

Consumer Reports AKA Toyota Buyer Guide.

Sorry no skin in the game,  CR is just a joke.

I love how the F150 and Mark LT have wildly different reliability ratings despite being the same truck.  Points to either poor sampling or poor methodology.

Love my 2011 Ram quad cab 4x4.  I bought it brand new, not one problem with it.

I read this stuff all the time, but my experiences differ vastly.

My last truck was a Laramie 1500 (2010) that i drove to work and down the lease roads as well as towed a full sized bass boat for 3 years. Traded it in with 120k on it at the end of 13 for a new Tundra because BLT was paying contingency money for Skeeter Boats towed by Tundras.

Now at the end of 16 and 90k of similar miles pulling a bass boat, lease roads, and tons of highway miles, I wish i still had my 10 Ram and it had 210k on it instead. I regretted thr Tundra by the 3rd week. Its about as ergonomically appropriate as a monkey fucking a football in zero gravity with texting Elon Musk on a flip phone. The turning radius is shit, it takes a city block to make a u-turn. It has absolutly NO more power than the hemi yet the hemi got 17mpg on the highway and 12 towing the boat, the Tundra gets 11 on the highway and 9 towing the boat or even the little 6x10 enclosed trailer. The Ram paint was fantastic and you couldnt scratch it to save your life unless you tried yet the tundra scratched the first time I washed it and now looks like it is 50 years old and been through a sand blaster. The Ram went in the shop exactly 0 times, the Tundra has had to be reflashed twice because when it would get cold it wouldn't start (I'm talking 40 degrees at best, no start). The tundra has eaten two abs sensors in the front at 450 bucks a pop, the interior rattles to hell which the Ram never did, and the list goes on.

Sorry Tundra fans but this fucker has convinced me they just pay the most to the magazine editors advertising department because there is no comparison. I have aleays been a Ford guy and have had a shit ton of them but the Ram and Tundra have played their part in changing my mind. Next truck will be another Ram and I won't even give Toyota my money again.

I have a 2005 1500 quad cab. 85,000. Most miles are towing or hauling.  Some weekends I have a 700lb camper in the bed and flat towing a jk jeep up the mountains. It has been a good truck. Did take some upgrades to work good

The trans was the most work. Deep sump, bigger cooler, shift kit inside it and programmer. Also put bigger brakes, air bags and better shocks.  

Dodge was a basic truck. Not too many options.  No abs or tv screens. Had to add trans temp gauge.

I'll be getting a Cummins in the spring.

This coming from a diehard Chevy guy ever since I've driven.

Go to somewhere that trucks are expected to last through long years of hard use. For example, check out the back lot on carnival midways, check out RV parks and see what people are choosing as tow vehicles, hit up a stock show and see what they are using to tow their livestock trailers. You will probably notice -- as I did -- that all of the brands are basically equally represented. And this in a business environment where the difference in cost of ownership is for the most part irrelevant (and tax deductible).

One of my trucks is a Chevy, one is a Dodge. So far, the Dodge is superior in every way. And because my Dodge has a gas engine I was able to purchase the unlimited mileage full coverage bumper to bumper lifetime warranty.

I've considered that.

On one hand, it's easy to say that because Chrysler has such a checkered reputation, the resale on the Ram is going to be weak compared to the competition. The fact that they've kept the current generation in production for so long (since 2009) probably doesn't help, either.

On the other hand, the market is changing quite a bit, and this 4th generation truck seems to be a pretty big improvement over the 2nd and 3rd generation trucks.

If fuel prices stay reasonable, I think most pickups should hold value pretty well by automotive standards. If we have another 2008 and fuel prices jump, it'll be a sad day in Whoville.

Love my 2010 Ram 1500. Its been flawless aside from the right bank exhaust manifold gasket leaking, which was a cheap fix. My Silverado was problematic......ended with trans going out at 71k. My F-150 before that was utter junk, rear end howled like a bitch, Ford's ridiculous spark plug design allow for 5 to snap during replacement, and it ate oil like a fat kid at a pie eating contest. The Ram was cheaper, and so for leaps and bounds better than the competition. I did really like the Tundra when I test drove it, but for the price.....fuck that. Buy the Ram, save a few bucks, and have a decent truck.

I have an 08 1500 big horn (bought new) and had a fuel wiring problem and it cost me $553. Had a water pump shit the bed but that was covered by the warranty. It's leaking again though and I'm outside the power train warranty so I will have have to get that fixed here soon.

I only have 48k miles on the clock though. It is my daily driver but I have been deployed a lot hence the low miles.

Besides those problems it's been a pretty good truck and it would be foolish for me to get a new one with it being paid for and how reliable it has been for me.

But when I look at buying again I'll get another dodge. I think dodge is pretty good at getting your bang for your buck IMHO.

The Mark LT is in the LTQI information. They have 123 examples in their database. That's in comparison to the F-series that has 28,867 examples in their database.

It could be an issue with sampling, and it could be that there were problems with a bunch of those Mark LTs that led them to be traded in to begin with (how LTQI gets their data).

I fully expected this thread to be a full on shit show bashing Ram trucks

I am looking at buying a used Ram. I feel like you get more for your money. And the years I am looking at (09-14), they feel a lot newer inside and out compared to chevy/gm.

I've always been a Ford guy, but bought a ram 2500 in March of this year.  5.7L 4x4 crew cab tradesman out the door with a 100k bumper to bumper warranty for $31K. It has a few options, like limited slip rear end and Chrome package, but comes standard with power windows and locks and Keyless entry.  

I've had a solenoid go out in the transmission, which was fixed in the same day I dropped it off.  Other than that it's been good.  

My company vehicle is a 15' 2500 ram with the 6.4.  They are switching the whole fleet over, because of the price difference. I have 47k on that truck already with no problems.  I really can't tell the difference between them and the fords we used to have in the fleet, other than the dodges have much more standard items for less money.  Time will tell, I guess.

I've got a 08 Ram 1500 and my old man has a 04 Ram 1500. No problems with either one of them yet. I had a water pump go out on mine, but besides that I've done all the routine maintenance and she's a breeze to work on.  Rams had major issues in the 90's and early 2000's. Newer gen rams are awesome.

Just a heads up, Ram makes 3 different 4 door configurations, quad cab (little bigger than extended cab but with 4 "full" doors), crew cab (standard crew cab configuration) and mega cab (this may be a HD only setup, can't remember, but it has a little room to recline the back seats) just don't want you to be comparing the quad cab to other makers crew cabs, the ram will come up short then.

When I buy a new truck, it will likely be a Ram. I'm going through and finding the same is true for current full size trucks that was true when we were shopping for my wife's mini van. You get many more features for the money with the Chrysler product than the competitors. A van with the options my wife's has on it from the main competitors (in that case Honda and Toyota) would have been close to $10k more. We don't buy to trade in a few years so resale value means less to us than it does people that do that.

I know what you're saying OP, but it seems to me truck advice is given almost exclusively of personal anecdote. And there is often a lot of ego and pride wrapped up in it.

I agree. I've always been a "you get what you pay for" attitude. I could not see what I was getting for $6-8k more going with a ford vs Ram.  I feel like I'm kinda rolling the dice, but so far, I'm happy with my purchase.  It does everything my previous ford did and is a little bit more comfortable.

Like I said earlier, time will tell

The 2dr 1500 is built in mexico (along with all 2500/3500/4500) while the 4dr (short and long door) are built in the U.S.

Yeah... One of my complaints about the truck segments is that each manufacturer seems to have a proprietary term for the different cab configurations. I tend to think of them as 1, 1.5, and 2, and I tend to use the terms single, extended, and crew, but I'm not sure if that's completely universal.

Another thing I find odd is that even though the F-150 is light years ahead of everyone else in terms of technology and design, they seem to be the only manufacturer staying with the old rear hinged half doors on that require the front doors to be opened before opening the rears (extended cab).

It always seemed to me that the pentastar brand had smart dudes in engineering weighed with shortsighted bean counters and iffy assembly workers. Early adopters of weight saving and cost cutting measures.  Also their V8 valve train geometry was eventually adopted by NASCAR as the standard iirc. Assembly was very hit or miss from my little experience.  Some solid, some sloppy.  Lots of sloppy.  Downright lazy welding and ineffective or non existent rust control.  

The K cars of the eighties weren't bad enough.  No.  As time went on the bean counters really hit their stride with the PT Cruiser.  After that utter turd they seemed to take a backseat to muscle.  The Charger, Challenger Ramble Bee or whatever else were good efforts.  Just not good enough.  Still heavy, fat cars.

I couldn't be bothered to really follow their diesel truck developments.  A friend of mine bought one of the early Cummins powered trucks.  Seemed promising. Sadly, the drivetrain twisted and destroyed the body with light farm use.  He typically kept a truck about ten years.  Dodge was dead in less than two.

The fact that they partnered with Mitsubishi is telling.  Can you name a foreign manufacture with more head gasket and oil burning failures?  Doubt it.

I won't praise the WIC card or Dodge/Ram/Chrysler/Plymouth/Eagle/AMC/Desoto whatever failed brand.

Maybe my view is clouded by the local dealer.  They have screwed up every car they worked on to my knowledge. Missed diagnosis, used sledgehammers as harmonic balancer installers,  greasy mechanics wrestling in the backseat, swapping parts off new vehicle inventory to diagnose problems, you name it.  The best is how they raise hoods and fly colorful flags and balloons to attract customers.  Really reaching for the bottom.

It's hard to do worse than to buy Mopar.  Literally everything is better in some if not most measures.

The extended cab is often the choice for commercial buyers so the access works for them. The doors flip open almost back to the bed so it's helpful for getting bulky items inside.

Consumer Reports is a biased and very suspect source.  I haven't bothered reading anything they print about vehicles since they rated the two almost identical products from NUMMI (one Toyota and one GM) with very different quality scores.  The brand perception bias was tangible.

As for the RAM, if you're buying a 1500 other than the regular cab, it will be built at Warren Truck outside of Detroit.  The 2500 and heavier, and all of the regular cabs, are built at Saltillo, Mexico.  The eight speed transmissions, a modified ZF design, are built by FCA in Indiana.  The Hemi engine comes from Saltillo.  Between the two RAM final assembly truck plants (Warran and Saltillo), you're likely to get better quality, at least paint wise, from the Mexico plant.

Ford F150 with 5.0 is GTG.....

When I was truck shopping, I wasn't even considering looking at a Dodge, but the Toyota dealer I went to to test drive a Tundra also owned the Dodge dealership next door.  I was unfortunately really, really underwhelmed with the Tundra I drove, so I figured why not look at the Rams while I was there.

I bought my 2010 (Crew Cab, TRX4, 5.7L) new, and got a screaming deal at that time due to Chrysler almost going under, and decided if I was going with a Dodge product, and since I got such a good price, I'd buy the lifetime warranty with it.  This was right when used truck prices were becoming absurd too, but before new truck prices became completely absurd, so comparably equipped new trucks and used trucks with 40,000 miles on them were close to being the same price.

Overall, it's been a really good truck.  I have about 75,000 miles on it now.

I have had to use the warranty twice though so far:

1. There was some issue with the MDS solenoid I believe.  Now the only problem it was causing was the transmission would not go into overdrive until I got it fixed. Driving a V8 at 3,000 RPMS on the highway sucks.  Got that fixed under warranty.

2. My drivers front wheel bearing went out at 66k miles.  I thought this was a bit premature, but the one thing I've heard about these trucks is they are hard on the front ends for one reason or another.  I was surprised they covered it.  Bad thing, I didn't trust how long the passenger side would last now, so I had to pay out of pocket if I wanted to get that side done, as it would only be covered if/when it went bad.  Can't risk getting stranded somewhere with having the wife and kids in the car, so I ate that cost.

Overall, I'm happy so far.  I hope I can say that after I put another 75K on it.

I don't care what brand you buy, they will all have minor issues here and there.  The trick is finding a dealer with a decent service department.

I've had nothing but good luck with the Ram 1500 over the years.  Every couple years, I'm out shopping to replace a company pickup, and for the last 10 years or so, Ram has always been the cheapest and most comfortable to drive by far in an apples-to-apples comparison.  We did buy tundras in '08, but they were strippers comapred to the same price ram or even chevy, and I hated the interior of those things with a passion.

I had a front wheel bearing go out on my '04 1500 at 40k, and when i traded it in with 100k on it, the other side was still original and not making any noise.  Sometimes you just get a bad bearing.

The difference in cost equals a difference in customer and what that customer expects as far as quality and reliability which is reflected in the different numbers.

I lot of my coworkers are running Dodge trucks for the same reason I'm driving a GMC, we have family that gets us the employee pricing on them.  That said they seem to have been as good as the GM stuff.  The only real problem that I know of was on a 2500 with the Cummins.   At a month or two of ownership it blew the radiator hose off out on the lake while the guy were ice fishing and it blew its trans valve body and left him on the side on the road.   He had quite a hassle getting it fixed and finally found a dealer that rebuilt it with and updated valve body.   It had a loping idle after that and I lost track of what fixed that.

I have a 3500, diesel Ram; zero problems. This is my second one. Buy at Dave Smith Motors for the best deal.

Lifelong Ford guy but as a person who keeps his truck forever and turns wrenches, RAM doesn't sound like the Ole AL Bundy Dodge anymore. Will definitely consider for my next truck. Good info here.

OP, you are putting way too much thought into this. Stop looking at BS charts and graphs that don't mean shit. Go drive each one for a day...ask the dealer to take one home overnight.

As an owner of a 2016 Ram 3500....I can tell you they are fucking junk on the inside. Ford is much higher quality.  
Fuck GM and Jap trucks...I never looked at them

I've owned 4 Rams and I believe they are a quality truck. Trucks fetch a higher dollar and companies spend more time on the product.  I would buy any of the trucks on the market because I think all of them are GTG. I buy Rams because I can get more options for my buck. The 5.7 hemi is a great motor also. I don't tow or haul so I can speak about that part of the truck. I wouldn't over think it though

I've had a 2009 1500 since it had a handful of miles on the truck.  Been SOLID.

sitting at 112k miles now and people can't believe it's almost 8 years old.

I had a 2001 Ram, finally got rid of the problematic pile of junk last week. Never buying a Dodge Ram again.
I also have a 2001 Lexus, and it is still my daily driver. No problems in 16 years. I'll drive this one until it dies, then I'll buy another Lexus. Great vehicles.

Honestly, this is the best review you're going to find. Yes, I'm serious.

2016 Ram owner here and my 1st pickup.  Not a brand fanboi and this was/is my 1st Chrysler product.  I went into the truck hunt trying to choose between an F-150 & Silverado, drover the RAM back to back and never looked back.  Also, check out the Dennis Dillon pricing on new RAMs.

One of the reviews I watched said those guys are the largest Ram dealer in the nation. I find it funny that they're in a tiny town in rural Idaho.

Their webpage only says the price is "Too Low To Show." That's not very helpful.

The other problem is that they are over 1,500 miles away from me. Not only do I think it's safe to assume that the cost of travel would nullify the savings of going there, but I'd have to immediately take a brand new vehicle on a cross-country road trip. That's a bad idea according to the break-in procedures in every manual I've ever read.

yup

im on my 3rd ram and my 5th or 6th dodge.  not a single one has ever given me trouble.

those pretty graphs and charts dont mean shit to me.  

Interesting.

Was this Toyota Matrix vs Pontiac Vibe, or something older?

Did they attempt to explain it?

I wanted the Ford but the Ram Hemi was 3k cheaper and better on advertised fuel efficiency at the time.  The Hemi after 11 years and 160k miles later it is still running.  Less than 1k of repairs in 11 years.  The math worked out for me.

I know it doesn't really compare to the newer ones, but my 04' Hemi Ram has been pretty bullet proof.....except for a problem with the rearend a while ago.  It's got around 150,000 miles on it.....still running strong.

I've driven nothing but Chrysler/Mopar vehicles for pretty much the past 12 years.

Some brand new off the lot, most of them used and some still being very well used.

I've been happy with every one of them, and most importantly, I've only been stranded once which is when the battery on my wife's WJ Grand Cherokee died in the grocery store parking lot.

With over a half million miles put on Chrysler/Mopar vehicles I haven't had a single major or otherwise catastrophic failure, such as an engine replacement, trans replacment or other driveline failure. The highest cost single repair I've made is the fuel pump on the wife's '03 WJ Grand Cherokee, which was a littler over $300 for a new Mopar fuel pump.

We recently bought a 2011 Ram 1500 SLT Crew Cab...trust me, if you're using this vehicle as a daily driver or people mover the extra cab space is well worth it over a Quad Cab.

Vs the JD Power "please buy a domestic superfund site with wheels or they'll shoot our dog" Report?  

My experience with my 2001 Ram 1500 is just the opposite. It has been absolutely bullet proof (minus the rust). I'm going to look at new ones Thursday morning. It's time for a new one, and I expect I'll get several grand out of it putting it out by the road. I'm not trying to split hairs, but I couldn't be happier with what I have gotten out of that truck vs what I put in it. Hopefully the front end problems are resolved on the new ones. My Jeep Liberty, never again!

My dad has a 2006 Dodge Ran 2500 with 35k miles on it. I think he has more money into repairs than he has spent on gas so far. Okay, maybe not quite but he's had several bills of $500+ so far. Lots of replacement parks in the axles around 25k miles, had to replace the entire instrument cluster because it stopped working around 30k miles, and some other stuff. And that's not counting the work that has been done under multiple recalls.

When he bought it a few days later we noticed the front bumper was crooked. It was only bolted on on one side. 

He wants to sell it but he can't get any decent money back out of it on trade-in or on a private party sale because it's 11 years old.

That's just one truck though, but that's his/my Dodge/Ram experience.