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Posted: 6/26/2003 2:33:32 PM EDT
[#1]
Here's the thing. There is an entire generation that has been raised to believe that Japan makes the best cars on the planet. They have ingrained in their collective psyche that American products are inferior in every way. Further, they have been conditioned to believe that Japanese cars use much less gas than American cars, so they are good for the environment. But the biggest lie that is propagated by those that would bolster the Japanese auto industry is that 75,000 miles on a vehicle is "high-mileage." Based on that illegitimate assertation, the question of reliability and longevitity becomes moot.
Toyota makes a very good product, but it is completely unremarkable technically. Where it is remarkable is in the marketing campaign that has been crafted to appeal to the generation that believe in filling their garage with only Japanese products. |
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Posted: 6/26/2003 2:33:51 PM EDT
[#2]
How many miles have you gotten on the Fords?
I currently have a compact toyota truck without a problem in 156k miles in 6 years(cant tow or haul more than 700lbs or the damn thing wont get going or stop worth a damn)..... I have seen a Z71 w/ over 250k (farm truck) But, I have had bad luck with GM products.....I have my sights on a Ford F150 in the near future....Have you had good luck w/ them? thanks, -HS |
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Posted: 6/26/2003 2:38:30 PM EDT
[#3]
Many people also believe that Japanese cars and trucks are actually produced in Japan - no really. You have to check each model as often cars are badged with a US, German, or Japanese name but built elsewhere.
As an example my Honda was built in California with American, Japanese, Canadian, and Mexican parts. |
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Posted: 6/26/2003 2:40:02 PM EDT
[#4]
i never was much for the rice burners, nor the rice burner trucks.
I jsut picked up a Ford Ranger. Bottom of the line when it comes to american, but i still feel it's much more superior than a ricer. At least i've got a V6. A truck with a 4 cyl is pointless. |
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Posted: 6/26/2003 2:40:55 PM EDT
[#5]
Oh yes,Jap autos.Brought to you by the same people that brought you Pearl Harbor,The Bataan Death March and The Rape of Nanking.It must make you really proud to buy a car from them.Obviously in some things like TV's,VCR's etc you have no choice but you do in this situation.As Kruschev said, we will fall from within.
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Posted: 6/26/2003 2:44:48 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted: Oh yes,Jap autos.Brought to you by the same people that brought you Pearl Harbor,The Bataan Death March and The Rape of Nanking.It must make you really proud to buy a car from them.Obviously in some things like TV's,VCR's etc you have no choice but you do in this situation.As Kruschev said, we will fall from within. And I suppose that you're against buying anything made in Germany, Britain, Italy, Austria, Spain, Mexico or Vietnam? |
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Posted: 6/26/2003 2:47:50 PM EDT
[#7]
I have a bias against domestic automobiles. However, when I was out to purchase a truck that was to do support duties for my race team, I took into consideration:
Mileage: I towed to many events well outside my home area. I have driven it (race car in tow) cross country six times. Reliability: See above. Location: Had to take being driven on unimproved roads for miles and miles. Comfort: Long drives. Ease of drive: Had to allow my crew to drive it so had to be easy for the ham fisted drivers at the wheel. My 93 Econoline 18' cube truck has over 194K miles on it. It did duty as a fleet truck (Ryder), 2 yrs with a contractor driving into and out of NYC and now in my hands. The only time it crapped out on me was towing to a track and the alt went south. I made it to my hotel, R&R the alternator and back on the road with no issues. NFW was I going to satisfy all my requirements with a Toyota. -934 |
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Posted: 6/26/2003 2:50:21 PM EDT
[#8]
[b]Paul[/b]'s point is very important. My '98 F150 was [i]assembled[/i] right here in Kansas City, but is is constructed from a number of components from all over the world. The Ford parts bin reaches throughout the Americas, Europe and Asia. However, Ford is an American car company. Honda is a Japanese car company. Honda was only able to establish manufacturing in the US by building up a customer base raised on its truly Japanese products.
I believe that there is no material difference between, say, a Toyota Camry and a Ford Taurus. The difference between the two is that one has been marketed as being somehow superior due to its Asian hertiage, which, of course is not correct. While the original Toyota Camry from the 1980s was a direct derivative of the Japanes-market Crown, the current car was developed specifically for the American market, and even more specifically to counter the Taurus, which for years was the best-selling automobile in the US. Now the roles have changed. Of course, in the US, the image of the car is completely out of whack. Here, a Mercedes is some sort of status symbol. Everywhere else in the world, it's a taxi. |
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Posted: 6/26/2003 2:53:19 PM EDT
[#9]
I'm not against anything from Germany,Italy or Austria--they realized what they had done.The Japs still think we were the aggressors.As far as Britain,why should I have anything against them.Vietnam,I won't buy anything with that label.
Aren't you the Super Patriot. |
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Posted: 6/26/2003 2:53:25 PM EDT
[#10]
Gotta go American all the way on this one. I love my Silverado, and would never, ever buy a rice burner. I don't like how they look, or thier more often than not 6 cylender engines. You can't go wrong with a 3500 HD with an 8 under the hood.
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Posted: 6/26/2003 2:54:36 PM EDT
[#11]
My current 1999 F-150 has 80,000 and hasn't seen the dealer since it was taken off the lot. I will be buying an '04 this winter, the new F-150's look so damn cool.
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Posted: 6/26/2003 3:13:38 PM EDT
[#12]
Gotta go with the majority on this one. If you need to tow more than 7200 lbs or stuff more than 1750 lbs in the truck, the ricers won't do it. If you want your half-ton to crack the door frames, don't buy Toyota, they just can't seem to make'em crack like those F150's. If you've got a hunger for Cold Start Knock outta your V8, it's gotta be GM, the Yota's just haven't figured that out either. If you want the thrill of a new transmission every year of so, yep, again don't bother with the Rice stuff...need to go with the German owned Chrysler's. Won't even mention the delight of spitting spark plugs out of the cylinder heads (ford 5.4L V8)...
Nope, all my V8 Tundra does is get 20mpg on the highway, 21 MPG if I put 1000 lbs in the bed...and it's too darn quiet...don't have that great 'TRUCK' roar that REAL truck guys like... WHEEEEE, got my flame suit on, and a spare bucket of gas handy...bring it on...}:) |
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Posted: 6/26/2003 3:21:38 PM EDT
[#13]
rice trucks just cant haul what a good GMC will
My 76 GMC 3/4 ton is still going strong with 275,000 it really needs a rebuild just because it uses oil but hey it still gets the job done. |
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Posted: 6/26/2003 3:27:26 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: I have seen a Z71 w/ over 250k (farm truck) My body has an old 87 F-150 that just turned over 425,000 miles. Origional engine and everything except a water pump. The foreign trucks might get good gas mileage and all but the purpose of a truck is to haul stuff and a Japanese truck can not hold a candle to a good old American truck. Keving67 |
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Posted: 6/26/2003 4:13:47 PM EDT
[#15]
Toyota's the only one with a full size version. Engine choice in American PU's is much larger than any foreign makes.
I don't think they're ready, willing or able to compete on full size. |
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Posted: 6/26/2003 4:19:17 PM EDT
[#16]
If it isn't a Dodge, it isn't a truck.
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Posted: 6/26/2003 4:22:54 PM EDT
[#17]
'95 f-150 142,000 miles.
other than oil and gas..the only thing I have replaced is the master clutch cylinder at a cost of $82.99 < I think I had a thread about it..> oh yeah I was actually Suprised when I pulled out of the NAPA auto parts store and saw the " Made in the USA" on the box.. [:)] My first truck was a hand ne down from my dad.. an '81 f-150 OVER 250,000 miles.. I believe It would still be on the road if it wasnt for that drunk driver,, [:(].. i miss that truck.. < oh yeah.. the seat on the 81 SUCKED A$$> |
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Posted: 6/26/2003 4:27:28 PM EDT
[#18]
I have to agree with the marketing angle! How many 1970's or 1980's jap cars do you see on the road? If they were anywhere near the "quality" that they boast, the roads should be full of them. Besides, toyota makes V6 engines that have a oil sludging problem and most rot apart within 6-8 years. One of my friends bought a toyota tocoma. He had it serviced at the dealership and they didn't put the oil plug back in. He drove it home and had the lifters making all sorts of racket. He got on the phone with the dealership and they told him tough. Then he called toyota and explained what happened. toyota said they are not responsible for the actions of the dealership. Then they told him they were canceling his warrenty due to the engine being run without oil. He is driving a Chevy now and has not had a problem.
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Posted: 6/26/2003 4:33:52 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted: If it isn't a Dodge, it isn't a truck. [rolleyes] '02 PSD SuperDuty here...16.8mpg around town and 21.5mpg on the highway..Oh ya..slightly twisted to 415RWHP...enough for me..Cummins boyz get a little more HP but their milage goes to shizzle[:D] |
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Posted: 6/26/2003 4:35:28 PM EDT
[#20]
the question you have to ask is:
CAN YOU MAKE MONEY WITH IT?!!! if you can't then ... IT'S NOT A TRUCK! |
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Posted: 6/26/2003 4:43:19 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: Toyota's the only one with a full size version. Engine choice in American PU's is much larger than any foreign makes. I don't think they're ready, willing or able to compete on full size. Nissan is entering the full size truck market this fall with their Titan. Only one engine (5.something liter V8), but it sounds pretty strong. Truck looks something like a cross between an F-150 and a Dodge. |
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Posted: 6/26/2003 4:54:46 PM EDT
[#22]
I disagree and think everything you said is all backwards.
They quality engineering and workmanship is superior They do use MUCH less gas. (smaller engines) They consistently go 250K plus. That being said , for years I have driven nothing but 30 year old Chevy's of various types. In the last few years I have used a Nissan pickup on a daily basis and its drives like a champ. The old Chevy's are sunday drivers. BTW I dont think [b]ANY[/b] of the NEW cars or trucks will be around in 35 years. The old Chevy`s just wont die. Quoted: Here's the thing. There is an entire generation that has been raised to believe that Japan makes the best cars on the planet. They have ingrained in their collective psyche that American products are inferior in every way. Further, they have been conditioned to believe that Japanese cars use much less gas than American cars, so they are good for the environment. But the biggest lie that is propagated by those that would bolster the Japanese auto industry is that 75,000 miles on a vehicle is "high-mileage." Based on that illegitimate assertation, the question of reliability and longevitity becomes moot. |
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Posted: 6/26/2003 4:56:02 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: Quoted: Toyota's the only one with a full size version. Engine choice in American PU's is much larger than any foreign makes. I don't think they're ready, willing or able to compete on full size. Nissan is entering the full size truck market this fall with their Titan. Only one engine (5.something liter V8), but it sounds pretty strong. Truck looks something like a cross between an F-150 and a Dodge. Yep, Nissan starts production in August. We've been running our Nissan line at Bosch for the past couple of weeks getting ready for it. All this week our plant has been filled with little excited Asian folks making sure this launch is going well. They are making 100% sure that quality and delivery are the two priorities. It may be a Jap Truck but its built in America and riding on German Corner Modules. |
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Posted: 6/26/2003 5:05:04 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted: i never was much for the rice burners, nor the rice burner trucks. I jsut picked up a Ford Ranger. Bottom of the line when it comes to american, but i still feel it's much more superior than a ricer. At least i've got a V6. A truck with a 4 cyl is pointless. Isn't the ford Ranger Nothing Moore than a MAZDA with the name badges changed? I gotta have a full sized truck for work. I had an '86 F-150 with 185,000 on it. I dont think there is a part on it that has not been replaced except for the transfer case. In all fairness, I did use it for a battering ram down on the deer lease. Have an '03 F-150. Wiring harness came unplugged at somewhere around 150 miles. Total electrical failure. I was fuming. Never a bobble since then. I WONT DRIVE ANYTHING BUT A FORD |
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Posted: 6/26/2003 5:08:35 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted: How many 1970's or 1980's jap cars do you see on the road? How many of ANY brand of 70's and 80's cars do you see on the road? Out here in the PRK, there are a ton of Hondas, Toyotas, Nissans, and Mazdas from the 80's still doing just fine. Of course, we don't salt roads out here, so car BODIES of all brands last much longer. Here's a funny thing about 15-20 year old Japanese cars: in most cases, all of the switches, knobs, and controls inside WORK. The interior pieces are all where they belong. The engines start right away, and tend to pass smog with little difficulty. This is in stark contrast to the 15-20 year old American-branded cars I see, but granted, there aren't that many still running anymore. Besides, toyota makes V6 engines that have a oil sludging problem and most rot apart within 6-8 years. So this explains all of the 90's pickups and Tacoma V6s on the road? My 1990 4x4 V6 has 160,000 miles on it, passed smog like a new car, starts everytime within 2 seconds, and gets 20 MPG in a 4x4. One of my friends bought a toyota tocoma. He had it serviced at the dealership and they didn't put the oil plug back in. If the best example you can come up with is a dead engine because it was ran with NO OIL, then I'm afraid your credibility is a bit lacking, don't you think? Are you suggesting that a Ford or Chevy would survive the same trip with no oil? I also love the guys comparing F350 SuperDutys to Tundras. TOTALLY DIFFERENT CLASS of truck. An apples to apples comparison is an F150 vs the Tundra, and I'll take the Tundra every time, thank you. Sure, Toyota is taking a slow, deliberate approach to the truck market. After dominating the small truck market for years, they're making steady progress in the full-size truck market. Tundras are very highly rated, especially in reliability. And you can bet that, as Toyota gains more and more marketshare, you'll start to see larger trucks to compete with the bigger American models. Hey, no one wishes that American cars were built as well as Japanese are. I'd prefer to buy American, but only buy buying the BEST vehicle can I communicate to the market where the quality is. Of course, you're free to spend your own money as you see fit. And that's how it should be. -Troy |
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Posted: 6/26/2003 5:09:40 PM EDT
[#26]
No one makes a full-size PU besides Detroit, so the arguement is moot.
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Posted: 6/26/2003 5:10:45 PM EDT
[#27]
For me, it's all about the warranty.
I look at Toyota and Nissan, and I see a 5year/60K mile drive train warranty. Dodge finally wised up, and they now have a 7/70 drive train warranty. Ford and GMC still have 3 year/36K warranties. The better the product is backed up, the better the product looks. Jay |
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Posted: 6/26/2003 5:20:51 PM EDT
[#28]
im not sure if i could ever drive a vehicle that wasnt a chevrolet big block, i've become so accustomed to the growl and torque that i just wouldnt be happy otherwise. its a nice feeling knowing you can take 90% of the cars on the road and put them in the bed of what you're driving [:D]
however, some here have listed their gas mileage. if you want a real truck, forget about it. mine gets 10mpg. that does come with the benefit of 340hp and 450ft/lbs though. 73000 miles, had the battery die and one sensor, no other problems. cant really blame the battery on the vehicle though. |
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Posted: 6/26/2003 5:24:11 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted: Quoted: i never was much for the rice burners, nor the rice burner trucks. I jsut picked up a Ford Ranger. Bottom of the line when it comes to american, but i still feel it's much more superior than a ricer. At least i've got a V6. A truck with a 4 cyl is pointless. Isn't the ford Ranger Nothing Moore than a MAZDA with the name badges changed? I gotta have a full sized truck for work. I had an '86 F-150 with 185,000 on it. I dont think there is a part on it that has not been replaced except for the transfer case. In all fairness, I did use it for a battering ram down on the deer lease. Have an '03 F-150. Wiring harness came unplugged at somewhere around 150 miles. Total electrical failure. I was fuming. Never a bobble since then. I WONT DRIVE ANYTHING BUT A FORD The old Courier that the Ranger replaced was a re-badged Mazda, however. Nick |
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Posted: 6/26/2003 5:34:53 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: After dominating the small truck market for years, they're making steady progress in the full-size truck market. Uhh...I don't think so. Toyota has not dominated the small truck market here. In Japan, sure. But not here. The Ranger and S-10 have always outsold any other small truck. Here's "light truck" stats of the past 3 years. I don't see a single Toyota. [list]Rank 1999 Number 2000 Number 2001 Number 1. Ford F Series 806,579 Ford F Series 820,248 Ford F Series 1,330,230 2. Chevy Silverado 533,177 Chevy Silverado 634,118 Ford Explorer 611,766 3. Dodge Ram Pickup 428,930 Ford Explorer 445,157 Dodge Ram Pickup 539,877 4. Ford Explorer 428,772 Dodge Ram Pickup 380,874 Ford Ranger 386,274 5. Ford Ranger 348,358 Ford Ranger 330,125 Dodge Caravan 386,174 6. Jeep Grand Cherokee 300,031 Dodge Caravan 285,739 Jeep Grand Cherokee 326,910 7. Dodge Caravan 293,100 Jeep Grand Cherokee 271,723 GMC Sierra 306,580 8. Chevrolet S10 Pickup 233,669 Chevrolet S Blazer 225,948 Chevy Tahoe 301,777 9. Ford Expedition 233,125 Ford Windstar 222,298 Ford Windstar 257,247 10. Chevrolet S Blazer 232,140 Ford Expedition 213,483 Ford Expedition 253,200 [/list] |
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Posted: 6/26/2003 5:45:24 PM EDT
[#31]
Ive been completely happy beating the hell out of one of these for the last 3 years, after having owned Chevy's my entire life.
[img]http://www.heffnerlexustoyota.com/2002/toyota/tundra/i_tundra.jpg[/img] |
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Posted: 6/26/2003 6:27:32 PM EDT
[#32]
New 4 door '04 Tundra will give all others hell.
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Posted: 6/26/2003 8:06:50 PM EDT
[#33]
I currently have 2 Ford trucks. That makes 6 I have owned. Each one of the older ones had at least 175K on them when I sold/traded them in. Normal replacements of brakes, belts, hoses. Never a waterpump on any of them. Mobil 1 and drive the hell out of them.
And I love my Super Duty ! All others are girly-man trucks !! |
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Posted: 6/26/2003 8:16:33 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted: the question you have to ask is: CAN YOU MAKE MONEY WITH IT?!!! if you can't then ... IT'S NOT A TRUCK! [rofl2] |
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Posted: 6/26/2003 8:50:53 PM EDT
[#35]
Its not really fair to call the Toyota Tundra "rice burners". They are powered by small block Chevy V8's, just fitted with valve covers and intake manifolds with 'Toyota' stamped in them. And the Tundra is assembled in the US, because they are only sold in North America.
Thats why NASCAR is letting them into the truck series next year. And it also means that the Tundra should not perform much differently than a similar weight Silverado. |
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Posted: 6/26/2003 8:54:03 PM EDT
[#36]
If you look world wide Toyota probably sells several times as many as anybody else. I doubt there is any US small truck outside the US that has more than minimal market penetration. That said nobody makes US fell size trucks like Detroit. They are bigger and less economical than the world market needs.
Will Toyota et al eventually produce a competitive ful;l size truck? yeah, they aren't dumb. Don't forget that in Japan a consumer vehicle is only expected to last 3 years. (Long story not relevant to this thread) |
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Posted: 6/26/2003 8:55:09 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted: I have to agree with the marketing angle! How many 1970's or 1980's jap cars do you see on the road? A hell of a lot more than the domestics of the same vintage. If they were anywhere near the "quality" that they boast, the roads should be full of them. See answer above. Besides, toyota makes V6 engines that have a oil sludging problem and most rot apart within 6-8 years. [BS] WTF are you talking about ?? Care to cite your sources ?? You don't have a clue on this. One of my friends bought a toyota tocoma. He had it serviced at the dealership and they didn't put the oil plug back in. Yea, this happens at all service businesses, dealer or aftermarket. How does that speak to the reliability of the product ? He drove it home and had the lifters making all sorts of racket. Tacomas have never used "lifters" [rolleyes] They haven't had a pushrod engine since the last 3TC. He got on the phone with the dealership and they told him tough. Then he called toyota and explained what happened. toyota said they are not responsible for the actions of the dealership. Then they told him they were canceling his warrenty due to the engine being run without oil. He is driving a Chevy now and has not had a problem. Double [BS][BS] on this one. everything you have said regarding the dealership in this is crap. I am a Toyota master technician with 20 years of dealership experience and even though accidents happen, the dealership is liable and ALWAYS takes care of it. Tell me, how did the tech get his truck to the parking lot without noticing the big puddle of oil under as he drove off ? The thing would have locked up before it was brought up for delivery. As for corporate Toyota, I know from YEARS of dealing with them, they would NEVER say or do what you have claimed. I tell ya what, you give me his info and I will run the Vin number and see what really happened...ok ? [rolleyes] |
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Posted: 6/26/2003 9:05:18 PM EDT
[#38]
Foreign vehicles got thier lead in the 80s when American companies made total shit. Anyone ever drive a K car or see all the chevy trucks on the road with the wheel wells rusted out after 2 yrs? I know you have. Once the foreign cars took the market american car companies had to get a wake up call and start making some decent shit.
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Posted: 6/26/2003 9:08:52 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted: Its not really fair to call the Toyota Tundra "rice burners". They are powered by small block Chevy V8's, just fitted with valve covers and intake manifolds with 'Toyota' stamped in them. And the Tundra is assembled in the US, because they are only sold in North America. Where did you get this from ?? The Tundra V8 or Land Cruiser V8 is not a GM product. It was developed from the Lexus V8, also not a GM product. Yes, the Tundra is U.S. assembled. |
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Posted: 6/26/2003 9:19:00 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted: Isn't the ford Ranger Nothing Moore than a MAZDA with the name badges changed? It's the other way around. The Mazda B-series trucks are actually Fords. There are several cross-brand models out there. Check out the Explorer and the Escape and their corresponding Mazda models. |
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Posted: 6/26/2003 9:21:43 PM EDT
[#41]
Tundras are made 40 miles from me in Fremont, PRK.
-Troy |
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Posted: 6/26/2003 9:29:42 PM EDT
[#42]
[URL]http://www.toyota.com/about/news/manufacturing/2003/06/18-1-tmmtx.html[/URL]
[B]"By 2006, Toyota will have capacity to build 1.65 million cars and trucks a year and 1.16 million engines in North America. Toyota currently employs some 34,000 people throughout North America. The company's direct investment is nearly $14 billion with annual parts, materials, goods and services purchased from North American suppliers totaling nearly $20 billion. Toyota's North American-produced vehicles include the Avalon, Camry, Corolla, Matrix, Sienna, Solara, Sequoia, Tacoma and Tundra, and Voltz. Beginning in the fall of 2003, the Lexus RX 330 will be produced at the automaker's plant in Ontario, Toyota Motor Manufacturing Canada."[/B] |
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Posted: 6/26/2003 9:40:48 PM EDT
[#43]
For me I have a 1994 Chey Silverado with 136k miles. I've had to change tires, battery, and clutch. My A/C will freeze you out. Even sitting at idle. A/C is a must here in Phoenix. No rice burners for me. |
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Posted: 6/26/2003 9:45:07 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: Quoted: Its not really fair to call the Toyota Tundra "rice burners". They are powered by small block Chevy V8's, just fitted with valve covers and intake manifolds with 'Toyota' stamped in them. And the Tundra is assembled in the US, because they are only sold in North America. Where did you get this from ?? The Tundra V8 or Land Cruiser V8 is not a GM product. It was developed from the Lexus V8, also not a GM product. Yes, the Tundra is U.S. assembled. The Lexus badged version of the Land Cruser uses the lexus DOHC V8-and they are DAMN lucky that no one who buys those things really takes them off road. DOHC valvtrains and 4WD LOW gearing do NOT make a reliable conbination. The [s]Toyota Land Cruser[/s] sorry [i]Sequoia[/i] though its a Land Cruser everywhere else in the world, gets the same pushrod engine as the Tundra. Because its intended to be more of a work vheicle. Toyota and General Motors have had on again off again production agreements going back to before WWII. The straight six engine that powered the Land Cruser till the V8 option appeared in the last couple years was based on the block of the Chevy 250cid inline six introduced in 1935 and used untill the early 70's in GM cars and early 80's in GM trucks. Toyota built that exact motor untill the late 50s/early 60's-and then after that all they did was change the head, the bottom end was almost identical. That is why custom 4x4 builders in the 70s and 80s were able to take Land Crusers and put either big OR small block Chevy V8's into them. The 4.0L I-6 in the original Supras was a decked version of this same engine. |
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Posted: 6/26/2003 10:07:07 PM EDT
[#45]
Don't forget that Toyota, Nissan, and some of the other companies have been building heavy duty trucks for use world wide for decades. The trucks that bang around lots of third world countries are of japanese and Korean origin.
From what I can tell, American trucks are typically only sold in North America. |
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Posted: 6/26/2003 10:09:52 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted: For me, it's all about the warranty. I look at Toyota and Nissan, and I see a 5year/60K mile drive train warranty. Dodge finally wised up, and they now have a 7/70 drive train warranty. Ford and GMC still have 3 year/36K warranties. The better the product is backed up, the better the product looks. Jay In that case, AZCOP, you should go buy your Hyundai now. They all have a 10yr/100K warranty. Have fun driving your Kim-Chee burner! |
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Posted: 6/26/2003 10:57:56 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted: Quoted: For me, it's all about the warranty. I look at Toyota and Nissan, and I see a 5year/60K mile drive train warranty. Dodge finally wised up, and they now have a 7/70 drive train warranty. Ford and GMC still have 3 year/36K warranties. The better the product is backed up, the better the product looks. Jay In that case, AZCOP, you should go buy your Hyundai now. They all have a 10yr/100K warranty. Have fun driving your Kim-Chee burner! Hyundai is the Korean subsidiary of Daimler Chrysler Inc. DC now wholly owns Mitsubishi, and Mitsubishi holds the largest share- over 1/4th- of Hyundai's stock. |
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Posted: 6/27/2003 6:15:14 AM EDT
[#48]
Quoted: I disagree and think everything you said is all backwards. They quality engineering and workmanship is superior They do use MUCH less gas. (smaller engines) They consistently go 250K plus. That being said , for years I have driven nothing but 30 year old Chevy's of various types. In the last few years I have used a Nissan pickup on a daily basis and its drives like a champ. The old Chevy's are sunday drivers. BTW I dont think [b]ANY[/b] of the NEW cars or trucks will be around in 35 years. The old Chevy`s just wont die. Quoted: Here's the thing. There is an entire generation that has been raised to believe that Japan makes the best cars on the planet. They have ingrained in their collective psyche that American products are inferior in every way. Further, they have been conditioned to believe that Japanese cars use much less gas than American cars, so they are good for the environment. But the biggest lie that is propagated by those that would bolster the Japanese auto industry is that 75,000 miles on a vehicle is "high-mileage." Based on that illegitimate assertation, the question of reliability and longevitity becomes moot. Hold the phone, there, Chuck. We're talking about full-size pickup trucks, not compacts. I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that a 2-wheel-drive 3,000-lb Toyota compact pickup with a 2.0-liter four banger gets probably triple the gas mileage as my 4x4 F150 with a 5.4-liter V8. I have personal knowledge of early-80s Toyota pickups with well over 300K on them and still on the road. BFD. I also have personal knowledge of at least 4 '97-'98 F150s with close to 700K on them. There is no correlation between the two whatsoever. The thrust of my argument is that there is no material difference between the engineering, materials, workmanship, projected longevity, performance or price among any of the 4 manufacturers of full-size pickup trucks. Any perceived difference is just marketing hype or personal opinion. If I am mistaken, please enlighten me. What, specifically, does Toyota engineer better on their full-size pickups that makes them materially superior? For generally equal engine displacement and vehicle configuration, are the fuel consumption figures [i]really[/i] significantly different among the 4 brands? Do [i]all[/i] Toyota full-size trucks [i]really[/i] "consistently go 250K plus," or are you saying that you know a few people that have put 250K+ on a few Toyota compact trucks? I am confident that pound-for-pound, dollar-for-dollar, the physical vehicles are not materially different. It's just the marketing. Does anyone really believe that somehow Toyota have cracked the code on vehicle technology, and they're using this special insight into the design of a pick-em-up truck to craft a significantly different product? If so, then Coke and Pepsi are worlds apart, too. |
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Posted: 6/27/2003 6:23:26 AM EDT
[#49]
Ive had 3 silverados. I had an 84 with 184K before I sold it without any major problems. I just traded in my 96 with 200K. The only problem I had with the 96 was the rear main seal leaking and and I replaced the intake manifold gasket. I traded the 96 in for a 03 silverado and it just sits in the driveway. It only have 900 miles on it. I commute 130 miles a day so I am getting tired of putting all the high miles on an expensive truck. I commute in my wifes old 95 Grand AM with 151K which has had zero problems. My wife now drives our first jap car. I bought her a Acura CL 3.0.
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Posted: 6/27/2003 6:36:15 AM EDT
[#50]
flame suit on.
I'm on my 3rd small Japanese P/U on about 15 years. 1st one was very used when I got it, ran well, but rusted out because it was used in salt H2O to haul fish gear, etc. 2nd one was 'slightly used' 33K on it when I got it. Sold it with 200k on it. Still running today. 3rd one I got new.in late '00. 45 k on it. Only changed oil and replaced brakes and mufflers. Oh, year, at 175k tossedc a clutch into #2. That's reliability IMHO. If I need a full sized? Toyota Tundra. |
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