I'm no conspiracy buff, but who was REALLY beihnd the JFK assassination.

*Oswald my ass!!!

Ok, I'll bite.  If not Oswald, how did they manage to set this guy up to take the fall?

Just because JFK was the only one killed does not mean he was the intended target.  The other wounded person was John Connely who just happened to be Secretary of the Navy when Oswald's discharge from the USMC was downgraded to "other than honorable".

I contend LHO wanted to kill JC and was further instructed by LBJ to kill JFK in order to get the stops pulled out on the conflict in Viet Nam.  JFK was considered weak in regards to the Bay of Pigs and LBJ didn't want a second failure.

LBJ's actions on that day really paint a picture that he was in the know.

Bill Clinton

[b]I contend LHO wanted to kill JC and was further instructed by LBJ to kill JFK in order to get the stops pulled out on the conflict in Viet Nam.[/b]

i thought johnson was opposed to the vietnam war.

Offered to *kill* him, set him up on a caribean island with $10,000,000.

Now, the question is, did they double cross him and actually kill him?

I read a book a few years ago that made a lot of sense to me.

One of the Secret Service agents in the chase car (Hinkey I belive) had one of the first ARs ever made. He was sitting on the back of the chase car, with his feet on the rear seat. There are photos of this.

When Oswald shot the first shot (neck shot) he stood with the AR in his right hand holding it by the pistol grip and probably finger on the trigger.

As the chase car sped up, he lost his balance and started to fall over backwards. When  you fall, your grip tightens involuntarily. When this happened, the rifle went off. It was pointing at Kennedy's head.

So, in my opinion, it was the Secret Service that actually Killed him.

The guy who wrote the book is a ballistics expert from the NE. I thought it was bullshit when I bought the book, but I have to tell you, he convinced me. The book is called "Mortal Error" I think.

[url]http://www.parmaq.com/truecrime/MortalError.htm[/url]

Aviator

Not even.  Johnson prided himself with being the master debater (ok, I needed some Friday fun) and could achieve victory if he could just get Ho Chi Minh into the Oval Office.

We this was deemed impossible, he directed the war on a micro-mangerial level, caliming no bomb fell without his permission.  

Dont you watch the "X-Files"?

Cancer Man killed JFK!!

I did it.

Any other questions?

[b]From the book:[/b]

Line of Fire

Another thing was worrying Donahue. As he combed the Warren Commission testimony he found several reports by people who said they had smelled gunpowder after hearing the shots, people in very different locations. He didn't see how this could be possible.

Now that he had a more accurate location of the entry and exit wounds of the head shot, he made drillings though a plaster skull, inserted a wooden dowel and placed the skull at the angle shown in the Zapruder film just before the head shot. He went back to his picture of the site and extended the shallow trajectory line backwards. It passed directly over the following Secret Service car and extended back towards the Dallas County Records Building. Donahue studied the photographs that were taken at the time of the assassination, and found that the agent in the back of the following car was sitting high up on the left rear seat. If a shot had been fired from the records building it would have hit him. Could the agent have fired the shot? He had been told that the agents had carried standard issue .38 calibre revolvers. There had been other guns, but no details had been released, and he was unable to find out any more. But such a theory did explain three things - the scent of gunpowder dispersed along the plaza, the exploding ammunition, and the refusal of the government to provide samples to medical examiners. (The brain and these samples are now officially missing)


Discovery.

Time passed without further developments. Donahue opened his own gun shop, and continued to establish his reputation as a firearms expert in legal cases. One thing he was very aware of - how easy it was for even a experienced gunman to accidentally discharge a gun.

One day in 1976 a friend gave him a copy of a book called The Death of A President by William Manchester, the semi-official account of the assassination. There, he found what he had been looking for for years. It described how agent George Hickey who had been sitting the left rear seat of the secret service car behind the presidential limousine, had with him an AR-15 rifle which he was waving about at the time of the shooting. Donahue scoured the testimony again and found a reference to Hickey standing up in his seat and then falling backwards. One witness had actually thought that Hickey had fired at someone. Agent Bennett seated beside Hickey said that when he heard the fatal shot he reached for the rifle between them but Hickey had already picked it up. Hickey's own statement had indicated he had picked up his gun after the last shot but this was contradicted by others who saw him with it at the time of the shot. And it was also started that the gun was kept in the bottom of the car "ready to go", i.e. cocked and loaded.

Accident

There was never much doubt in Donahue's mind that if Hickey had fired the head shot it was accidental. This fact must surely have been known to the secret service men there at the time. When Clint Hill (the man seen climbing onto the back of the President's limousine just after the shooting) telephoned the White House he said "There has been an accident", and the secret service removed the body from Parkland hospital firmly and illegally, despite the Dallas medical examiner's insistence than an autopsy must by law be performed before the body could be shipped out of the state. After a major confrontation he was shoved aside and the casket removed. Of course there would have to be a cover up. Such an accident would tarnish the Secret Service, tarnish the memory of JFK, which was why the Warren Commission had insisted the bullet fragments found in the car came from the head shot - they were ballistically matched to Oswald's rifle.


Aviator

[url]http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/lbjtape.htm[/url]

[url]http://www.townhall.com/columnists/calthomas/ct20011115.shtml[/url]

The Naval Intelligence & Higher ups, killed him and MM. Used Oswald as a patsy. Man behind the fence dressed in a policemans uniform shot the final shots.

Three-way classic sniper textbook triangle  crossfire. Fatal shot came from atop the Dal-Tec Building and was actually fired from a .30-06 with a plastic sabot used to contain the Carcano 6.6 mm slug that had been previously fired from Oswald's weapon in order to leave the telltale ballistsic marks of the Carcano and fool everyone into thinking that Oswald fired it from his piece-o-sh_t rifle. Hit commissioned by the Council on Foreigh Affairs as Kennedy was about to take the United States off of the Bretton-Woods pact of 1944 in which US currency was made the base-rate for all other world currencies. This would have totally screwed their plans for a One-World currency and United Nations central rule that was recently advanced by the introduction of the "Euro" to the world currency market. Just my .02

Oh yes you are.  You're always trying to stir up trouble.  Say, you're not really Sirhan Sirhan are you? [;D]

Aviator,
I read that book too, When My Dad gave it to me I thought it would be B.S., but it made a pretty damn good case.

KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER :)

Yeah, it makes a hell of alot more sense, and less loose ends than any other theory I have heard

Aviator

And here I was thinking it was a suicide.

And for any other Questions:
What kind of ammo was it?  Did you use Factory or Hand-Load?  Was it a Wolf?  Was your rifle Belt- or Magazine Fed?  Did your rifle end up in Heat?  Which scene in Heat did your rifle appear in?  Where in Heat did you make your appearance?

[i]"A gun."[/i] [rolleyes]

OK OK I did it!~but don't tell noone ok it's just between us. I hid for three years afterwards and then being born in 1967 to hide from the gov.

[url=http://www.john-f-kennedy.net/MossadAndTheAssassination.htm]The Communists, the Mob, the FBI, the CIA, Castro, Oswald, Aliens, The Smoking Man, Elvis? Why hasn't anyone ever thought of these people, after all they [i]are[/i] badass assassins.[/url]

[b]Mossad And The JFK Assassination[/b]

"Israel need not apologize for the assassination or destruction of those who seek to destroy it. The first order of business for any country is the protection of its people."
Washington Jewish Week, October 9, 1997


In March, 1992, Illinois Representative Paul Findley said in The Washington Report on Middle East Affairs, "It is interesting - but not surprising - to note that in all the words written and uttered about the Kennedy assassination, Israel's intelligence agency, the Mossad, has never been mentioned."

Considering that the Mossad is quite possibly the most ruthless and efficient intelligence agency in the world, it is peculiar that they have never been scrutinized in relation to the Kennedy assassination, especially when practically every other entity in the world (short of Elvis impersonators) has been implicated. But that all changed in January, 1994 with the release of Michael Collins Piper's Final Judgment. In this book, Piper says, "Israel's Mossad was a primary (and critical) behind the scenes player in the conspiracy that ended the life of JFK. Through its own vast resources and through its international contacts in the intelligence community and in organized crime, Israel had the means, it had the opportunity, and it had the motive to play a major frontline role in the crime of the century - and it did."

Their motive? Israel's much touted Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion, who ruled that country from its inception in 1948 until he resigned on June 16, 1963, was so enraged at John F. Kennedy for not allowing Israel to become a nuclear power that, Collins asserts, in his final days in office he commanded the Mossad to become involved in a plot to kill America's president...

Ben-Gurion was so convinced that Israel's very survival was in dire jeopardy that in one of his final letters to JFK he said, "Mr. President, my people have the right to exist, and this existence is in danger."

In the days leading up to Ben-Gurion's resignation from office, he and JFK had been involved in an unpublicized, contentious debate over the possibility of Israel getting nuclear capabilities. Their disagreement eventually escalated into a full-fledged war of words that was virtually ignored in the press. Ethan Bronner wrote about this secret battle between JFK and Ben-Gurion years later in a New York Times article on October 31, 1998, calling it a "fiercely hidden subject." In fact, the Kennedy/Ben-Gurion conversations are still classified by the United States Government. Maybe this is the case because Ben-Gurion's rage and frustration became so intense - and his power so great within Israel - that Piper contends it was at the center of the conspiracy to kill John Kennedy. This stance is supported by New York banker Abe Feinberg, who describes the situation as such: "Ben-Gurion could be vicious, and he had such a hatred of the old man [Joe Kennedy, Sr., JFK's father]." Ben-Gurion despised Joe Kennedy because he felt that not only was he an anti-Semite, but that he had also sided with Hitler during the 1930's and 40's. [We will touch upon this aspect of the story in an upcoming article entitled The CIA and Organized Crime: Two Sides of the Same Coin].

Anyway, Ben-Gurion was convinced that Israel needed nuclear weapons to insure its survival, while Kennedy was dead-set against it. This inability to reach an agreement caused obvious problems. One of them revolved around Kennedy's decision that he would make America his top priority in regard to foreign policy, and not Israel! Kennedy planned to honor the 1950 Tripartite Declaration which said that the United States would retaliate against any nation in the Middle East that attacked any other country. Ben-Gurion, on the other hand, wanted the Kennedy Administration to sell them offensive weapons, particularly Hawk missiles.

The two leaders thus engaged in a brutal letter exchange, but Kennedy wouldn't budge. Ben-Gurion, obsessed by this issue, slipped into total paranoia, feeling that Kennedy's obstinance was a blatant threat to the very existence of Israel as a nation. Piper writes, "Ben-Gurion had devoted a lifetime creating a Jewish State and guiding it into the world arena. And, in Ben-Gurion's eyes, John F. Kennedy was an enemy of the Jewish people and his beloved state of Israel." He continues, "The 'nuclear option' was not only at the very core of Ben-Gurion's personal world view, but the very foundation of Israel's national security policy."

Ben-Gurion was so preoccupied with obtaining nuclear weapons that on June 27, 1963, eleven days after resigning from office, he announced, "I do not know of any other nation whose neighbors declare that they wish to terminate it, and not only declare, but prepare for it by all means available to them. We must have no illusions that what is declared every day in Cairo, Damascus, and Iraq are just words. This is the thought that guides the Arab leaders ... I am confident ... that science is able to provide us with the weapons that will serve the peace and deter our enemies."

Avner Cohen, in Israel and the Bomb, published by Columbia University Press, reinforces this sense of urgency by writing, "Imbued with lessons of the Holocaust, Ben-Gurion was consumed by fears of security ... Anxiety about the Holocaust reached beyond Ben-Gurion to infuse Israel's military thinking." He further adds fuel to this point by pointing out, "Ben-Gurion had no qualms about Israel's need for weapons of mass destruction," and "Ben-Gurion's world view and his decisive governing style shaped his critical role in instigating Israel's nuclear progress."
Kennedy, on the other hand, was adamant in his refusal to promote Israel's ascension to the nuclear stage. Avener Cohen, in Israel and the Bomb, stresses, "No American president was more concerned with the danger of nuclear proliferation than John Fitzgerald Kennedy. He was convinced that the spread of nuclear weapons would make the world more dangerous and undermine U.S. interests." Cohen continues at the end of this passage, "The only example Kennedy used to make this point was Israel."

Realizing that Kennedy would not change his mind, Ben-Gurion decided to join forces with Communist China. Both countries were greatly interested in creating nuclear programs, and so began their secret joint dealings. Working in unison through intermediary Shaul Eisenberg, who was a partner of Mossad gun-runner and accountant Tibor Rosenbaum, Israel and China proceeded to develop their own nuclear capabilities without the knowledge of the United States.
If you find this scenario improbable, I strongly urge you to read Gordon Thomas' excellent book, Seeds of Fire, where he exposes how the Mossad and CSIS (Chinese secret service) have conspired on many occasions to not only steal American military secrets, but to also doctor U.S. intelligence programs such as the Justice Department's PROMISE software. This instance, I am afraid to say, is but the first where echoes of the JFK assassination can still be felt today reverberating through our post 9-11 world. The danger of Israel developing the Bomb in unison with China became a highly volatile situation, and was closely monitored by the CIA.

Intent on pursuing this path, the Israeli's constructed a nuclear facility at Dimona. When Kennedy demanded that the U.S. inspect this plant, Ben-Gurion was so incensed that he erected another PHONY facility that held no evidence of nuclear research and development. (Does this scenario sound eerily familiar to the game we're playing with Saddam Hussein in Iraq right now?) Fully aware of their shenanigans, though, JFK told Charles Bartlett, "The sons of bitches lie to me constantly about their nuclear capability."

Avner Cohen, in Israel and the Bomb, reiterates this claim by saying that Ben-Gurion had taken the nuclear issue so closely to heart that he, "concluded that he could not tell the truth about Dimona to American leaders, not even in private."

Dr. Gerald M. Steinberg, political science professor at Bar-Ilan University's BESA Center for Strategic Studies in Tel Aviv, weighs in by saying, "Between 1961 and 1963, the Kennedy administration placed a great deal of pressure on Ben-Gurion in the effort to pressure for acceptance of international inspection of Dimona and Israeli abdication of their nuclear weapons. This pressure apparently did not alter Israeli policy, but it was a contributing factor to Ben-Gurion's resignation in 1963."

To convey how serious this situation had become in modern terms, look at what is happening in Iraq with United Nations security teams inspecting the royal palaces and bunkers for nuclear weapons and materials. This matter is so urgent that our nation is on the verge of war. Forty years earlier, the heat that JFK was placing on Ben-Gurion was equally as strong as what George Bush is laying on Saddam Hussein today.

In Israel and the Bomb, Avner Cohen reinforces this point. "To force Ben-Gurion to accept the conditions, Kennedy exerted the most useful leverage available to an American president in dealing with Israel: a threat that an unsatisfactory solution would jeopardize the U.S. government's commitment to, and support of, Israel."

The pressure on Ben-Gurion was so immense that he ended up leaving office. But Kennedy, in true pit-bull style, didn't let up on Ben-Gurion's successor, Levi Eshkol, as Avner Cohen reports. "Kennedy told Eshkol that the U.S. commitment and support of Israel 'could be seriously jeopardized' if Israel did not let the U.S. obtain 'reliable information' about its efforts in the nuclear field. Kennedy's demands were unprecedented. They amounted, in effect, to an ultimatum." Cohen concludes this thought by asserting, "Kennedy's letter precipitated a near-crisis situation in Eshkol's office."

In the end, as we're all aware, Kennedy was assassinated in November 1963; but less known is that China conducted its first nuclear test in October, 1964. What makes this event more profound is Piper's claim that even though Israel said its first nuclear tests took place in 1979, they actually occurred in October, 1964 along with the Chinese! If this is true, other than August, 1945 when the United States dropped atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, October 1964 may possibly be the most dangerous month in 20th century history.

Let's return, though, to JFK's assassination and the direct results of it in regard to the Jewish lobby, American foreign policy, and the militarization of Israel. To understand how powerful the Israeli lobby is in this country, venerable Senator J. William Fulbright told CBS Face the Nation on April 15, 1973, "Israel controls the U.S. Senate. The Senate is subservient, much too much; we should be more concerned about U.S. interests rather than doing the bidding of Israel. The great majority of the Senate of the U.S. - somewhere around 80% - is completely in support of Israel; anything Israel wants; Israel gets. This has been demonstrated time and again, and this has made [foreign policy] difficult for our government."

Do you hear what Senator Fulbright said? This isn't a crazy conspiracy theorist or a KKK anti-Semite. It's a much-respected U.S. Senator saying that about 80% of the Senate is in Israel's hip pocket. Adding clout to this argument is Rep. Paul Findley, who was quoted in The Washington Report on Middle East Affairs in March, 1992, "During John Kennedy's campaign for the presidency, a group of New York Jews had privately offered to meet his campaign expenses if he would let them set his Middle East policy. He did not agree ... As the president, he provided only limited support of Israel."

To understand how important Kennedy's decisions were during his short-lived presidency, we need to look at the issue of campaign finance. Considering how influential the Israeli lobby is in the U.S. Senate (hearkening back to the words of Senator Fulbright), they had to have been enraged when President Kennedy genuinely wanted to cut the knees out from under the current campaign finance methods because it made politicians so reliant upon the huge cash inlays of special-interest groups. Regrettably, Kennedy did not have the time to implement this program, and to this day our political system is still monopolized by lobbyists from the very same special-interest groups. One can only imagine what changes would have occurred in regard to our foreign policy had Kennedy eradicated these vipers and blood-suckers from the halls of Congress.
Tragically, Kennedy's ideas never came to fruition, and his heated battle with Prime Minister Ben-Gurion over whether Israel should be allowed to develop a nuclear program was ultimately lost. The reason why is that Lyndon Baines Johnson, who Kennedy intended to drop from his ticket in 1964 due to his extreme dislike for, had a complete reversal in foreign policy. As you will see, not only did Israel's nuclear program move ahead unchecked; they also became the primary beneficiary of our foreign aid.

But this absolute turnaround would not have occurred if Kennedy would not have been assassinated. Up until LBJ became president, Kennedy dealt with the Middle East in a way that most benefited the U.S. His primary goal - and one which would most keep the peace - was a balance of power in the Middle East so that each and every nation would be secure. This decision adhered to the Tripartite Declaration which the U.S. signed in 1950. But under the Johnson administration, this fragile balance was overturned, and by 1967 - only four years after Kennedy's assassination - the U.S. was Israel's main weapons supplier, and OUR best interests were put well behind those of Israel!

As Michael Collins Piper writes: "The bottom line is this: JFK was adamantly determined to stop Israel from building the nuclear bomb. LBJ simply looked the other way. JFK's death did indeed prove beneficial to Israel's nuclear ambitions and the evidence proves it."
Reuven Pedatzer, in a review of Avner Cohen's Israel and the Bomb, in the Israeli Newspaper Ha'aretz on February 5, 1999 wrote, "The murder of American president John F. Kennedy brought to an abrupt end the massive pressure being applied by the U.S. administration on the government of Israel to discontinue their nuclear program." He continues, "Kennedy made it quite clear to the Israeli Prime Minister that he would not under any circumstances agree to Israel becoming a nuclear state." Pedatzer concludes, "Had Kennedy remained alive, it is doubtful whether Israel would today have a nuclear option," and that, "Ben-Gurion's decision to resign in 1963 was taken to a large extent against the background of the tremendous pressure that Kennedy was applying on him concerning the nuclear issue."

If you're still not convinced; how about some numbers? In Kennedy's last fiscal budget year of 1964, Israeli aid was $40 million. In LBJ's first budget of 1965, it soared to $71 million, and in 1966 more than tripled from two years earlier to $130 million! Plus, during Kennedy's administration, almost none of our aid to Israel was military in nature. Instead, it was split equally between development loans and food assistance under the PL480 Program. Yet in 1965 under the Johnson administration, 20% of our aid to Israel was for the military, while in 1966, 71% was used for war-related materials.

Continuing in this same vein, in 1963 the Kennedy administration sold 5 Hawk missiles to Israel as part of an air-defense system. In 1965-66, though, LBJ laid 250 tanks on Israel, 48 Skyhawk attack aircrafts, plus guns and artillery which were all offensive in nature. If you ever wondered when the Israeli War Machine was created, this is it! LBJ was its father.
According to Stephen Green in Taking Sides: America's Secret Relations with a Militant Israel, "The $92 million in military assistance provided in fiscal year 1966 was greater than the total of all official military aid provided to Israel cumulatively in all the years going back to the foundation of that nation in 1948."

Green continues, "70% of all U.S. official assistance to Israel has been military. America has given Israel over $17 billion in military aid since 1946, virtually all of which - over 99% - has been provided since 1965."

Can you see what's happening here? Within two years of JFK's assassination, Israel went from being a weak, outmatched member of the volatile Middle Eastern community that was not allowed to develop nuclear weapons to one that was well on its way to becoming a undeniable military force on the world stage. John Kennedy adamantly put his foot down and refused to allow Israel to develop a nuclear program, while LBJ bent over backward to facilitate and bolster them. Or, as Seymour Hersh wrote in The Samson Option, "By 1968, the president had no intention of doing anything to stop the Israeli bomb."

The result of this shift in focus from the Kennedy to Johnson administration is, in my opinion, the PRIMARY reason behind our current troubles in the Middle East which culminated in the 9-11 attacks and our upcoming war with Iraq (and beyond). I have a great deal of confidence in this statement, for as Michael Collins Piper points out, here are the results of John F. Kennedy's assassination:

1) Our foreign and military aid to Israel increased dramatically once LBJ became president.
2) Rather than trying to maintain a BALANCE in the Middle East, Israel suddenly emerged as the dominant force.
3) Since the LBJ administration, Israel has always had weaponry that was superior to any of its direct neighbors.
4) Due to this undeniable and obvious increase in Israel's War Machine, a constant struggle has been perpetuated in the Middle East.
5) LBJ also allowed Israel to proceed with its nuclear development, resulting in them becoming the 6th largest nuclear force in the world.
6) Finally, our huge outlays of foreign aid to Israel (approximately $10 billion/year when all is said and done) has created a situation of never-ending attacks and retaliation in the Middle East, plus outright scorn and enmity against the U.S. for playing the role of Israel's military enabler.
In Israel's, and especially David Ben-Gurion's eyes then, what were their alternatives - to remain weakened (or at least balanced) in relation to their neighbors and handcuffed by JFK's refusal to bow to their will, or KILL the one man standing in their way to becoming dominant in the Middle East, the recipient of huge amounts of military aid, and one of the premier nuclear forces in the world? It's something to think about. Also, while these thoughts are running through your head, ask yourself this question. If Kennedy, LBJ, and all subsequent administrations would have adhered to the 1950 Tripartite Declaration and did everything in their power to maintain balance in the Middle East instead of pushing Israel to the forefront, would our Towers have been attacked on 9-11, 2001, and would we be on the verge of a possibly catastrophic war today? It's certainly something to ponder.

Israel's War Machine, JFK's Assassination, and the Atomic Bomb:
An Overivew of Michael Collins Piper's "Final Judgment" by Victor Thorn
See: http://www.babelmagazine.com/issue89/finaljudgment89.html

[bow]

[b]ARgue[/b], Impressive but...I am kinda tired, can you just give us the Readers Digest version?


ByteTheBullet  (-:

Oswald was actually killed by members of his band.

This was actually one of the first "boy bands".

Oswald and Ruby were the founding members.

Here's a pic.

[img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/IG_LoadImage.asp?iImageUnq=13376[/img]

imbroglio did it,i seen him do it,yep he did it alrighty,i seen him do it.
there you have the facts,believe no one else,i seen him do it.
josam

I like the Secret Service theory too.

IMHO the best all-around books to read about this are:  Best Evidence by James Lifton and Crossfire by Jim Marrs.

Back in 1993 I was on vacation in Florida and since it was mid November when I was planning to leave I decided to take the long way home (to NY) and stopped in Dallas for the 30th anaversary of the assination. I was never one of those that read all the books on the subjest but I always had a problem with the fatal shot as seen in the Zapruder film. I had always felt that Oswald. if he was involved at all, was not alone.

Anyway, I got to Dallas the day before and wandered around Dealy Plaza to get the feel of the place and the first thing that came to me was that it looked smaller than I had expected. The other thing that was obvious was that every third person had his own pet theory and many of them, with props and photocopied handouts, had all the appearance of three-card-monty dealers!

I took the tour of the school book depository, "The Sixth Floor" I think it was called, and it was apparent that the best shot at JFK would have been as the car was approaching the building. The veiw to the car after it made the left turn was often obscurred by trees and it would be much harder to make the shot at JFK without a substantially greater risk of hitting someone else in the car.

The 6.5mm MC rifle that Oswald is supposed to have used was not the best weapon choice given it's sticky bolt. Some critics have pointed out that the scope was badly aligned when found and could not have been used, but if Oswald, or anyone else for that matter, had dropped the weapon as he made his exit the scope could easily have been knocked out of alignment in the fall.

For me the case revolves around the motion of JFK's head when hit with the fatal shot. There are few facts not in question in this case, but the fact that his head was moved backwards with considerable force is not in doubt. For me, the case boils down to whether or not you believe in the "jet effect" or not. I remember doing a little research on this in 93 and althought I had great doubt in the theory there IS enough energy in the bullet to produce a jet of brain matter and that such a jet could have propelled the head backwards. BUT, I have never found anyone that ever witness such a phenomina. I would like to know if any on this board with combat experience has EVER seen the head of someone move TOWARDS the shooter.

Now that I have an AR (BM Varminter) I would like to do some testing with a head-like simulant. Perhaps a mellon or cantalope suspended by a string and videotaped at 90 degrees to the path of the bullet with a graph-paper like background to quantify the amount of motion. Or, perhaps, the mellon could be stuck on the end of a spring-like rod and bent forward at the angle JFK's head was in at the time of the fatal shot so that there was some stored force in the spring/rod. It would be better to use a real 6.5mm MC with identical ammo at the same distance and geometery. Anyone here have a 6.5mm MC care to participate in this test?

Later,