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Posted: 6/4/2003 12:48:52 PM EDT
[#1]
Why not? It's a perfectly good round, and perhaps a collector (like me) likes to have a varied collection...
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Posted: 6/4/2003 12:50:44 PM EDT
[#2]
I know of people who have amassed [b]thousands[/b] of once-fired milsurp shell cases over the years, mostly from DCM matches.
Reloading those is a [b]significant[/b] cost-cutter. |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 12:52:36 PM EDT
[#3]
30-06 is one of, if not the best rounds today period.
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Posted: 6/4/2003 12:52:53 PM EDT
[#4]
I guess the .308 brass is harder to come by? (for free)... Good points on both, I assumed Zaphod's reply. Also, it's a lot easier to buy in bulk one cartridge than two... and reloading dies, etc.
edit Any data on that cyanide? I know the rifles can be top notch, and handloaded ammo can be top notch, but I would think .308 would be... I don't know, I guess just different? More options available in bullets and brass and what? |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 12:54:18 PM EDT
[#5]
Reloading is the key. The '06 out of a good bolt action rifle will be a more versatile cartridge than the .308 due to the case capacity. You can squeeze more powder in there, and thus get better velocities.
Plus what has already been said, and what will be said about it. Why? WHY NOT? |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 12:59:22 PM EDT
[#6]
Here's a good article on the .30-06 by Col. Craig Boddington: http://www.huntingmag.com/guns_loads/30_06_springfield/
The .30-06 is more versatile than the .308, especially when handloaded. |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 1:00:43 PM EDT
[#7]
Phoenix, young grasshopper. The 30-06 is a superior round to the .308 in many ways. While I might give the accuracy nod to the .308, it's not by much. The '06 is faster than the .308 in every instance & speed kills. Speed = energy. That said, the '06 is far more versatile. You can up to 220 grains in the projectile or down into the 110 grain range. The .308's only real advantage is the size of the case allows it's use in short action recievers.
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Posted: 6/4/2003 1:00:49 PM EDT
[#8]
The 308 can't effectively use the heavier bullets like the 30-06 can. The heavy weight bullets take up far too much of the 30-06 case capacity.
That's why 30-06. |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 1:01:14 PM EDT
[#9]
A cartrige does not stick around for almost 100 years with this much popularity for no good reason. I like my 06's for the following reasons.
1. it is highly suitable for the game which I hunt. 2. Reloading makes it cheap, and very accurate to shoot. 3. There is a lot of history behind it, which has helped it become the highly proven round it is. |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 1:02:06 PM EDT
[#10]
3006 is hotter and flatter shooting, not to mention can fire a more significant bullet than the 308. (308 loads up to 200gr, while 3006 loads up to 220gr.)
Example: 3006 200gr fires at 150fps faster than the exact same in 308. Would you hunt bear with a 308? I would hunt bear with a 3006! However, no real shooter can not have atleast one gun in 308, mainly because its cheap to shoot. However, I can't live without atleast one 3006 in my battery as well. |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 1:04:40 PM EDT
[#11]
Case capacity gives it more versatility when loading heavier bullets than the average 150-175gr .308 variety. You can go up to 220gr I believe.
The 30-06 is a great round, has been around for 100 years and will cotiue to be a top choice for N. American big game hunters. 308 Win has better inherant accuracy due to case dimensions but cannot keep up with the 06 in heavy round velocities. Availability is a key aspect also. ANy sporting goods store, Walmart, Kmart etc. carries the stuff too. So don't count the round out becuase the military dumped it, you would be surprised at the ballistic capability of the 06'. |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 1:08:10 PM EDT
[#12]
I prefer the .308. For any hunting that required something more powerful than the .308, I would skip the .30-06 and go to the .30 cal magnums.
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Posted: 6/4/2003 1:08:18 PM EDT
[#13]
All this is good information and I now have much much more respect for the 30-06
Here's that link from above, but hot [url]http://www.huntingmag.com/guns_loads/30_06_springfield/[/url] But with case capacity and everything, why not make the jump to long action, like 7mm or .338? Again, I would say cost, but when all set up and needing only to make one or two shots for hunting, I would go with one of the above... However, I do know it is fun just to mess around with paper or home made reactive targets, so the expense between the above and a 30-06 goes to the 30-06. =) |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 1:16:16 PM EDT
[#14]
Well, a .338 (anything) will run you a pretty penny, but you can still get plenty of surplus .30-06 ammo for cheap. You would also have trouble finding AP in 7mm or .338 dia bullets.
I think that if I was going to get a 'hunting only' gun, it would be in .338-06. [b]Gun-fan[/b], the .308 Winchester has the advantage in speed in the lighter bullets, say, 150 grains or less. 180 grain bullets or more are faster with the .30-06 Springfield. |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 1:25:47 PM EDT
[#15]
I got a rifle in .30-06 because it was a steal on closeout. A Tikka Whitetail synthetic for $360.00. There was no way I'd pass up a great shooter like that.
Agreed .30-06 isn't a cheap as .308 but I wasn't planning to burn through hundreds of round per session. And has been pointed out, .30-06 is a great cartrige to reload. |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 1:26:00 PM EDT
[#16]
I'll give one reason. M1 Garand. How could any firearm hobbyist, collector, shooter, etc... not own that rifle. Oh, the history!
-Pat Oh, and you can pretty much load a .30-06 to sufficient power levels to take just about any North American game. |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 1:38:22 PM EDT
[#17]
#1) Nostalgia.
#2) You can't load a .308 to very good velocities with a 200gr-220gr bullet. The larger case capacity on the '06 allows an advantage here. Other than that, the 308 and '06 are practically identical in performance. Check this thread.....and look at the graphics links I posted: [url=http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=161379&page=2]308 vs 30-06[/url] |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 1:45:03 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: I appreciate it evolving from the 30-30, and paving the way for today's .308. It had absolutely nothing to do with the 30-30. It was designed as a replacement for the 30-40 Krag. Experience in the Spanish American War, showed that the US Krag rifle and .30-40 Krag round was inferior to the 7*57 Mauser cartridge used by the enemy. The problem was that the Mauser was simply more effective due to it's charger (stripper clip) loading and rimless feeding. Thus, in 1903 the Springfield '03 (a Mauser variant) was developed around the .30-03 cartridge. It was a new cartridge, but was still old school in theory. The Germans then developed the perfected variation of the 8*57 Mauser (in '05 I think), which was far superior to anything around at the time. Thus, in order to avoid a similar Krag mistake, in 1906 the .30-03 was redesigned and updated, hence .30-06. The '03s that were already produced were recalled and adapted to use the new .30-06 cartridge which differed dimentionally by just a hair. After WWII, when the world wanted to go to smaller 7mm-ish cartridges, the US held its ground, and wanted no piece of that. The most they would eventually accept is a cartridge that performed identically to the '06 but was a smaller size. This would be the 7.62*51. Strangely, even though we were the longest holdout wanting to keep the old powerful cartridges, we were the first to quickly go to the complete other side of that spectrum and adopt the High Velocity Small Caliber concept of the 5.56*45. We kind of screwed over the rest of NATO. IMO, the '06 is a fine cartridge for hunters and tinkerers, but is indeed no better than the *51 in militry ball format. |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 2:00:36 PM EDT
[#19]
I own both and there is really no signifigant differances between .308 and 30-06 except a little better accuracy in the .308 (although in my rifle the slower velocity loads are much more accurate)and a faster short bolt action.
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Posted: 6/4/2003 2:04:32 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: [b]Gun-fan[/b], the .308 Winchester has the advantage in speed in the lighter bullets, say, 150 grains or less. 180 grain bullets or more are faster with the .30-06 Springfield. Sorry, that's incorrect. The 3006 is faster in every weight compared to the 308. More examples: Weight------------------Velocity--- --------------------3006--------308 110gr---------------3300--------3200 125gr---------------3200--------3100 150gr---------------3000--------2900 165gr---------------2800--------2700 |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 2:06:16 PM EDT
[#21]
[b]Please teach me, why would ANYONE get a new firearm chambered in 30-06?? (seriously)[/b]
1. Because Garands are bitchin'. 2. .30-06 is [i]THE[/i] premire anti-tyrrany cartridge. It has slain more: ~ [b][purple]Imperialists[/b][/purple] (German, Austro-Hungarian, Japanese) ~ [b]Nazis[/b] (German and Itallian) ~ [b][red]Communists[/red][/b] (North Korean and Chinese) ~ [b][white]Klansmen[/white][/b] ~ [b][red]H[/red][orange]i[/orange][yellow]p[/yellow][green]p[/green][blue]i[/blue][violet]e[/violet][purple]s[/purple][/b] Than ANY other. |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 2:09:33 PM EDT
[#22]
Quoted: Quoted: [b]Gun-fan[/b], the .308 Winchester has the advantage in speed in the lighter bullets, say, 150 grains or less. 180 grain bullets or more are faster with the .30-06 Springfield. Sorry, that's incorrect. The 3006 is faster in every weight compared to the 308. More examples: Weight------------------Velocity--- --------------------3006--------308 110gr---------------3300--------3200 125gr---------------3200--------3100 150gr---------------3000--------2900 165gr---------------2800--------2700 100fps is almost a wash....there are some lots of ammo that have a standard deviation that could be 100fps. The extra weight of the long action and the long action itself is why I would use the .308. |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 2:20:49 PM EDT
[#23]
Don't forget the "Springfield Accelerator," a .30-06 loaded with a 55gr bullet producing over 4000 fps at the muzzle. That's quite a range, 55 grains to 220 grains.
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Posted: 6/4/2003 2:30:11 PM EDT
[#24]
Here is a little historical anecdote that I think may shed more light on the subject. In Marine sniper Ed Kugler's book "Dead Center", he states that toward the end of his second tour in Vietnam, he had just traded in his Winchester Model 70 in 30-06 for a brand new Remington 700 in .308. Kugler was unhappy with this equipment exchange, preferring the tried and true Model 70 to a new and unproven rifle. Lo and behold, a few weeks later a serious firefight took place approximately 1500 meters from his firebase. Because of the geography of the area, the closest he could quickly get to the battle was at the top of a ridge about 900 meters from the village where the fight was taking place. He observed a squad of Marines all killed one by one by a single VC in a well camoulflaged spider hole. After adjusting for range, Kugler pulled the trigger for a perfectly placed shot - only to see the round fall a hundred yards short! Kugler fired again and again, to no avail. The .308 lacked the velocity to go the distance, and he could not kill the lone VC. In the meantime, the VC killed seven Marines, who were searching for him desperately. Finally, he watched as the last Marine - the M60 gunner - charged directly to the foxhole, firing all the way, to empty an entire belt into the one man position, while standing directly overhead. Only then did he collapse in tears at the loss of all his friends. If only Kugler had had his old 30-06, things may have turned out differently. |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 2:32:13 PM EDT
[#25]
Read an interesting article in "Accurate Rifle" recently (I believe) where a guy that lived in Africa talked about the .30-06.
Seems they had some left-over Garands that they used in elephant culling operations. They had loaded up some 220 grain bullets for better penetration and used them effectively in culling the herds. But they had a problem with "over penetration" when shooting the elephants in the head and sometimes went through them and hit other elephants. They switched back to the 147 grain service loads and didn't have any other problems. Who'd a thought it? |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 2:36:59 PM EDT
[#26]
I'm sorry but it sounds more like a scope issue then a round issue. If he could hit it with the '06 he could have hit it with the 308.
They are 100fps different folks at 500yds the difference is less than 50fps in most cases. |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 2:39:13 PM EDT
[#27]
Let's see:
1. It is readily available round, even cheap stuff. 2. It can take down any game animal in North America. 3. I find it very accurate. Bilster |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 2:45:56 PM EDT
[#28]
Look at it this way...
If you're hunting out in the middle of Bum-_uck nowhere, odds are extremely good that you'll find 30-06 ammo in a little mom & pop store where you probably won't find .308 Win. I own both calibers and I've always been able to fond 30-06 ammo no matter where I've been. |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 2:50:19 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted: odds are extremely good that you'll find 30-06 ammo in a little mom & pop store where you probably won't find .308 Win. [>:/] You're right. You'd probably find 7.62NATO in a mom & pop in bumfuckegypt. [lol] |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 2:57:08 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: Here is a little historical anecdote that I think may shed more light on the subject. In Marine sniper Ed Kugler's book "Dead Center", he states that toward the end of his second tour in Vietnam, he had just traded in his Winchester Model 70 in 30-06 for a brand new Remington 700 in .308. Kugler was unhappy with this equipment exchange, preferring the tried and true Model 70 to a new and unproven rifle. Lo and behold, a few weeks later a serious firefight took place approximately 1500 meters from his firebase. Because of the geography of the area, the closest he could quickly get to the battle was at the top of a ridge about 900 meters from the village where the fight was taking place. He observed a squad of Marines all killed one by one by a single VC in a well camoulflaged spider hole. After adjusting for range, Kugler pulled the trigger for a perfectly placed shot - only to see the round fall a hundred yards short! Kugler fired again and again, to no avail. The .308 lacked the velocity to go the distance, and he could not kill the lone VC. In the meantime, the VC killed seven Marines, who were searching for him desperately. Finally, he watched as the last Marine - the M60 gunner - charged directly to the foxhole, firing all the way, to empty an entire belt into the one man position, while standing directly overhead. Only then did he collapse in tears at the loss of all his friends. If only Kugler had had his old 30-06, things may have turned out differently. [BS] What a load! Any decent sniper knows where that round is going to to hit before he squeezes off! We may not know how to work the dishwasher, But we know guns! |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 3:14:23 PM EDT
[#31]
As a hunting cartridge, .30-06 is both theoretically and practically available in more loadings than just about any serious caliber, not just in this country, but in most of the world. By theoretically, I mean a manufactured load by ammunition companies with bullet weights from 110 gr to 220 gr. By practically, I mean that you will actually find more varieties of .30-06 stocked than you will another major centerfire cartridge. Maybe some of our South African members can confirm, but I once read that once you drop out of the elephant and lion sized cartridges, the .30-06 is the most popular rifle cartridge in Africa and has taken all African animals, including cape buffalo and elephant.
What does this mean? With a .30-06, you are more likely to find good ammunition available wherever you are than any other hunting cartridge. And, while it isn't as fast as some or as big as others, it will reliably take any animal in North America and with skill, any game animal on any other continent as well. |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 3:26:06 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted: Read an interesting article in "Accurate Rifle" recently (I believe) where a guy that lived in Africa talked about the .30-06. Seems they had some left-over Garands that they used in elephant culling operations. They had loaded up some 220 grain bullets for better penetration and used them effectively in culling the herds. But they had a problem with "over penetration" when shooting the elephants in the head and sometimes went through them and hit other elephants. They switched back to the 147 grain service loads and didn't have any other problems. Who'd a thought it? My Brother-in-law has hunted elephant in Central African Republic, and this sounds like a huge load of ES...Elephant sh!t. You hunt elephant with a 30-06 and you will end up squashed. |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 3:30:07 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted: My Brother-in-law has hunted elephant in Central African Republic, and this sounds like a huge load of ES...Elephant sh!t. You hunt elephant with a 30-06 and you will end up squashed. I'd have to agree. I was in South Africa when I was a kid, and while I didn't hunt I talked to park rangers who occasionally had to take down unruly elephants - and they used .457 Weatherby (I think that's the round), but it was a big bore, not anywhere close to .30 I suppose you culd kill an elephant with a .30-06, but the only way it's going THROUGH an elephant is if you shot through the ear. [:)] |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 4:00:58 PM EDT
[#34]
well, i ain't been on a big game safari on the serengheti, but...
i have seen pictures of cape buffalo/elephant/rhino hunting guides/bearers and those chaps were holding bone stock enfields and springfields in some of those old black and white pics. whenever the 'great white hunter' missed or wounded, those backup rifles had to drop the very large pissed off animal. i'm betting not every bull elephant has been taken with a $10,000 custom parker-hale in .404 jeffreys or such. |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 4:13:10 PM EDT
[#35]
The 30-06 is a fine cartridge that's just as good today as it was 100 years ago as far as I am concerned. It is powerful, it's plenty accurate enough and in many cases, it's the biggest round that many people can comfortably shoot. If one could only have 1 centerfire rifle in this country, the 30-06 would probably be the best choice. It will take the full range of game found in North America. For deer sized game, the 150 gr bullets work very well. And if bigger stuff such as elk, bear, etc are to be taken, the 180-220 gr 30-06 loads will do the job.
Now the big magnums may shoot flatter and hit harder, but at a much greater impact on the shooter. Personally, I find most of the magnum calibers overkill. I have yet to come up against any game that my '06 hasn't been capable of taking cleanly and efficiently. So why do I need something else? I know a 300 Ultra Mag or one of the Weatherby magnums will shoot harder and flatter, but the increased recoil negates any advantage the cartridge might have otherwise in my opinion. I can't shoot them as accurately because of excessive recoil and flinching. For me and many others, the 30-06 is enough gun and will do all the tasks we ask of them. This cartridge is here to stay. Oh yeah, one other thing about the 30-06, you can find ammo for it anywhere you go. I can drop into any ma and pa store around here and get 30-06 rounds, whereas they wouldn't have a single round of 300 ultramag or or a 338 magnum. This is another important consideration for many. -Charging Handle |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 4:17:50 PM EDT
[#36]
Lots of good data precedes this post, in fact I think all has been covered well.
1. 30-06 w/180 grain and up, speed does kill. 2. Case capacity, read that operating pressure, 308 is at max as is from factory while 30-06 has a goodly amount to go, all up, reloaded in a safe firearm (new Remington M700 or equal). Also high performance factory ammo is available from Federal and others for use in like firearms. 3. Ackley Improved 30-06 @ $90 from our local gun shop...now your talking performance! (bolt action only) One side note on penetration, controlled expansion is the current definition of effective bullet performance regarding terminal performance. |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 4:26:19 PM EDT
[#37]
There ain't a problem that can't be fixed...
with the application of a 30.06! |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 4:32:11 PM EDT
[#38]
I am buying a 700 in 30/06 from wallyworld (I polled here about my choice)
The reasons I use the 30/06 are many fold: 1. The rifle is cheap at wallyworld (as is 270, 308 is not) 2. Everywhere sells 30/06 ammo 3. You can get the extra 200 fps from 30/06 safely. Many men risk their eyes to wring a little more speed out of a load. 30/06 comes with it over 308 4. (most important) I already have an M1 and a Columbian Mauser. I Load 30/06 already and don't feel like getting a set of new dies and cases |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 4:54:03 PM EDT
[#39]
It's kind of interesing when you think about it. There have been all these new short action magnum cartridges, new bullets, powders, but a cartridge that was designed over 100 years ago and served us for two World Wars is still considered the most popular cartridge in America.
Say, I'm thinking of getting a .30-06, but I'm not sure about the barrel length or twist. I say a 1/10, but will that stabilize both 168 and 175gr. rounds well? |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 10:39:02 PM EDT
[#40]
you can find it everywhere.
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Posted: 6/4/2003 11:05:21 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted: There ain't a problem that can't be fixed... with the application of a 30.06! So true. BTW I IM ed you man. I have a question. |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 11:23:35 PM EDT
[#42]
You forgot the MOST IMPORTANT REASON!!!
"Heterosexuals shoot the 30-06!" [;)] |
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Posted: 6/5/2003 12:16:21 AM EDT
[#43]
One good reason...
It's been around forever and every Elmer Fudd that hunts deer uses it... Good example... Last deer season we had 25 guys on our hunting camp roster. 23 of them had .30-06's 1 was a .270, and the other a 7mm mag. Simple law of supply and demand... |
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Posted: 6/5/2003 4:10:57 AM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: Quoted: Read an interesting article in "Accurate Rifle" recently (I believe) where a guy that lived in Africa talked about the .30-06. Seems they had some left-over Garands that they used in elephant culling operations. They had loaded up some 220 grain bullets for better penetration and used them effectively in culling the herds. But they had a problem with "over penetration" when shooting the elephants in the head and sometimes went through them and hit other elephants. They switched back to the 147 grain service loads and didn't have any other problems. Who'd a thought it? My Brother-in-law has hunted elephant in Central African Republic, and this sounds like a huge load of ES...Elephant sh!t. You hunt elephant with a 30-06 and you will end up squashed. Having read just about everything Peter Capstick ever wrote, I would have agreed with you. The author of the article in the April issue of Accurate Rifle is Dr.Kevin Robertson from Karoi, Zimbabwe. He worked with the Department of National Parks and Wildlife Management when he saw the .30-06 story. He said the rangers are now using FN-FALs to do the culling. An important fact is that they were not "hunting" as you stated. They were "culling". It is entirely different. In culling, they shoot an entire herd, cows, small elephants, etc. They only take head shots. He said most of the over-penetrations were on the cows and smaller elephants. We must remember that the greatest elehpant hunter in history was a guy named Kilimajaro Bell (SP?) who used a 6.5 Mauser and only made head (brain) shots. But he warned that you had to be able to hit the brain every time or you would have a big problem. The big guns like .470 Nitro Express, .505 Gibbs, etc. are able to break an elephant down by breaking a shoulder, etc. Obviously a small caliber can't do that. Regardless, I haven't ever shot an elephant, except in my dreams. Have you? Mr. Bell shot thousands. So have the Parks and Wildlife Rangers. Who do you think knows more about what it takes to kill them? |
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Posted: 6/5/2003 4:27:57 AM EDT
[#45]
2. .30-06 is [i]THE[/i] premire anti-tyrrany cartridge. It has slain more: ~ [b][purple]Imperialists[/b][/purple] (German, Austro-Hungarian, Japanese) Umm.. Forgetting about 7.62*54R and .303? I'll give you the Japanese, but .30-06 was a very late entry into WWI, and 4 out of 5 German losses were on the Eastern front. |
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Posted: 6/5/2003 6:28:34 AM EDT
[#46]
Quoted: Quoted: Read an interesting article in "Accurate Rifle" recently (I believe) where a guy that lived in Africa talked about the .30-06. Seems they had some left-over Garands that they used in elephant culling operations. They had loaded up some 220 grain bullets for better penetration and used them effectively in culling the herds. But they had a problem with "over penetration" when shooting the elephants in the head and sometimes went through them and hit other elephants. They switched back to the 147 grain service loads and didn't have any other problems. Who'd a thought it? My Brother-in-law has hunted elephant in Central African Republic, and this sounds like a huge load of ES...Elephant sh!t. You hunt elephant with a 30-06 and you will end up squashed. |
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Posted: 6/5/2003 7:13:14 AM EDT
[#47]
Quoted: Say, I'm thinking of getting a .30-06, but I'm not sure about the barrel length or twist. I say a 1/10, but will that stabilize both 168 and 175gr. rounds well? Yes it will. 1/10 is a good all around twist. A 12 would be great for lighter fare. |
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Posted: 6/5/2003 8:05:27 AM EDT
[#48]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Read an interesting article in "Accurate Rifle" recently (I believe) where a guy that lived in Africa talked about the .30-06. Seems they had some left-over Garands that they used in elephant culling operations. They had loaded up some 220 grain bullets for better penetration and used them effectively in culling the herds. But they had a problem with "over penetration" when shooting the elephants in the head and sometimes went through them and hit other elephants. They switched back to the 147 grain service loads and didn't have any other problems. Who'd a thought it? My Brother-in-law has hunted elephant in Central African Republic, and this sounds like a huge load of ES...Elephant sh!t. You hunt elephant with a 30-06 and you will end up squashed. Having read just about everything Peter Capstick ever wrote, I would have agreed with you. The author of the article in the April issue of Accurate Rifle is Dr.Kevin Robertson from Karoi, Zimbabwe. He worked with the Department of National Parks and Wildlife Management when he saw the .30-06 story. He said the rangers are now using FN-FALs to do the culling. An important fact is that they were not "hunting" as you stated. They were "culling". It is entirely different. In culling, they shoot an entire herd, cows, small elephants, etc. They only take head shots. He said most of the over-penetrations were on the cows and smaller elephants. We must remember that the greatest elehpant hunter in history was a guy named Kilimajaro Bell (SP?) who used a 6.5 Mauser and only made head (brain) shots. But he warned that you had to be able to hit the brain every time or you would have a big problem. The big guns like .470 Nitro Express, .505 Gibbs, etc. are able to break an elephant down by breaking a shoulder, etc. Obviously a small caliber can't do that. Regardless, I haven't ever shot an elephant, except in my dreams. Have you? Mr. Bell shot thousands. So have the Parks and Wildlife Rangers. Who do you think knows more about what it takes to kill them? IIRC, you refer to [i]Karamojo[/i] Bell, one of the legendary white hunters of Africa. Nerves of steel, and shooting skill to match. A rare combination, and perhaps why his technique of a rear-quartering brain shot has fallen out of favor. And you are right about Peter Hathaway Capstick. He is simply marvelous. |
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Posted: 6/5/2003 8:09:59 AM EDT
[#49]
Quoted: It's kind of interesing when you think about it. There have been all these new short action magnum cartridges, new bullets, powders, but a cartridge that was designed over 100 years ago and served us for two World Wars is still considered the most popular cartridge in America. Say, I'm thinking of getting a .30-06, but I'm not sure about the barrel length or twist. I say a 1/10, but will that stabilize both 168 and 175gr. rounds well? Col. Jeff Cooper, USMC (Ret.) has been saying this for decades. With range, balance, and "feel" all being factors, I would advise (unless you have good, specific reasons for doing so) to [b]not[/b] go less than 19-20" ins. in barrel length. A 1-in-10" twist should do. |
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Posted: 6/5/2003 8:16:52 AM EDT
[#50]
Quoted: IIRC, you refer to [i]Karamojo[/i] Bell, one of the legendary white hunters of Africa. Nerves of steel, and shooting skill to match. A rare combination, and perhaps why his technique of a rear-quartering brain shot has fallen out of favor. And you are right about Peter Hathaway Capstick. He is simply marvelous. Thanks for the correction. I can't ever remember old Karamojo's name. I sure wish his Mom had named him Joe or something. And as far as Peter Capstick, I loved his observance about what happens if an angry elephant ever get ahold of you, "When they find you, the best undertaker in the world won't be able to fix you up to where your own mother could tell if you were face up or down." |
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