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Posted: 6/3/2003 2:51:42 PM EDT
[#1]
yup...within specs.
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Posted: 6/3/2003 2:52:24 PM EDT
[#2]
No, it is considerably hotter than Saami specs allow. There is a disclaimer of same on the box and when buying it is duty ammo some years ago for our department, I was required by winchester to sign a liability waiver.
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Posted: 6/3/2003 3:27:11 PM EDT
[#3]
anyone settle this?
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Posted: 6/3/2003 3:52:11 PM EDT
[#4]
SAAMI specs include ONLY 2 instances of "+P", and NO instances of "+P+". The two +P loads that have SAAMI-approved limits are .38Spl +P and 9mm +P. Anything beyond those pressures, or beyond standard SAAMI pressures in any other caliber, are over and above SAAMI limits. Pretty straightforward.
-Troy |
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Posted: 6/3/2003 3:54:31 PM EDT
[#5]
I happen to have a box of Winchester Ranger 115 gr 9mm +P+ sitting right here. Let me list what's printed on the box and I'll let you decide.
(FRONT) FOR LAW ENFORCEMENT USE ONLY NOT FOR RETAIL SALE PRESSURE LEVELS EXCEED INDUSTRY STANDARDS USE ONLY IN PISTOLS (BACK) Do not use in Uzi firearms. These cartridges are loaded to specifications that require higher velocity and pressure than conventional 9mm Luger cartridges. Average pressure is 20-25% higher (approx 40,000cup) than industry standard pressure for 9mm Luger. |
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Posted: 6/3/2003 3:59:16 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted: SAAMI specs include ONLY 2 instances of "+P", and NO instances of "+P+". The two +P loads that have SAAMI-approved limits are .38Spl +P and 9mm +P. Anything beyond those pressures, or beyond standard SAAMI pressures in any other caliber, are over and above SAAMI limits. Pretty straightforward. -Troy Ahem, .45 +P, ? |
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Posted: 6/3/2003 4:56:38 PM EDT
[#7]
sammi is just a bunsh of freaking lawyers.
no disrespect to the fine counselors on this board. TXL |
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Posted: 6/3/2003 5:04:00 PM EDT
[#8]
SAAMI serves its purpose. Think of it as minimum requirement of chamber pressure for firearm makers to keep in mind when they design their wares. Some designs are stronger than others, thus, they can withstand higher chamber pressures.
The tricky part is determining which designs are to be considered adequate. |
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Posted: 6/3/2003 5:06:24 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted: Ahem, .45 +P, ? And the SAAMI pressure specs for .45 +P are??? The answer is: there aren't any, because SAAMI doesn't have a standard for that designation. ".45 +P" is simply a manufacturer's way of saying "it's above SAAMI's .45ACP pressure specs". -Troy |
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Posted: 6/3/2003 5:26:38 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: (BACK) Do not use in Uzi firearms. |
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Posted: 6/3/2003 5:52:19 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted: is classified as +P+ Classified by whom? -Troy |
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Posted: 6/3/2003 5:58:55 PM EDT
[#12]
[url]www.handloads.com/misc/saami.htm[/url]
??? .45 ACP +P, 23,000 PSI Is this wrong? 9mm +p+ is a "non-standard" designation. |
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Posted: 6/3/2003 7:27:47 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted: Do not use in Uzi firearms. What is the reason for not firing them out of Uzis? |
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Posted: 6/3/2003 7:40:56 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: Quoted: Do not use in Uzi firearms. What is the reason for not firing them out of Uzis? Fear of KABOOM |
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Posted: 6/3/2003 7:48:14 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Do not use in Uzi firearms. What is the reason for not firing them out of Uzis? Fear of KABOOM I thought those sub-guns and its semi-auto cousins are supposed to be super strong and blow-up proof. Boy that is news to me. |
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Posted: 6/3/2003 8:46:14 PM EDT
[#16]
SAAMI does not create, SAAMI only defines.
Much like a (misunderstood) dictionary, it descibes a past use, it does not limit a future (or current) use. Wildcatters develope a round, then SAAMI codifes it. SAAMI did not develope +p in 9mm, SAAMI described and codified it after the fact. The commonly understood definition of "+" is +10%. So +p is SAAMI+10%, +p+ is SAAMI+10%+10% or 1 x 1.1 x 1.1=1.21. For 9mm; 35,000 x 1.1 x 1.1 = 42,350psi. SAAMI is important, but like the French controlling SI units, ISO900x, CE mark definitions, it sometimes stinks. |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 6:15:16 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted: Quoted: is classified as +P+ |
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Posted: 6/4/2003 6:56:24 PM EDT
[#18]
[img]http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL77/858902/2210487/26689100.jpg[/img]
"Pressure Levels Exceed Industry Standards" [img]http://pic5.picturetrail.com/VOL77/858902/2210487/26689085.jpg[/img] "Average pressure is 20-25% higher approximately (40,000 C.U.P.) than industry standard pressure for 9mm luger." Now if there was a standard for +p+ do you think they would label this as exceeding 9mm luger pressure? |
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Posted: 6/5/2003 3:15:16 PM EDT
[#19]
Unfortunately, SAAMI doesn't have this info on their webpage to reference, but you can order the books here:
[url]www.saami.org/community.html[/url] But I was mistaken; they have +P specs for THREE cartridges, the third being .38Super +P. -Troy |
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