Yep, that's pretty much standard, in the construction industry in general, and for painters especially.
there are no tradesmen left.  The guys that are painting your house today will be there doing electrical work tomorrow.
All of this is a result of 2 things:
1) The "I'm better than this job" mentality.  You see this at mcdonalds and stuff too.  People think they "deserve" better than what they've got.  Guess what?  you deserve exactly what you get, that's it.
2) Immigration.

Working for an interior finish contractor I'll chime in.

When I frist started working for this company sales/project manager I was also running the crews.  Fed up as to why my "guys did not show up and did not want to work" I asked one of the supertindants this question. "Why do these guys only want to work four days a week?"  He look at me and stated the fact "because they can not get by on three".

Good luck with you project.



Badredfish [devil]

There probably on a two day drunk after finding a bunch of cash in a parking lot last night.
[;)]

drywallers are the worst, shit, any pieceworkers are a pain to deal with.  They will work until they can make their bills and buy beer, and then they'll shut down.

Recently had all the siding on my house replaced and the whole thing repainted. The siding crew worked on Friday, but only till about 1 p.m. and they wanted that check BADly. The painter I had was a gem. Prepped and painted the whole monstrous affair himself. Seventh Day Adventist, wouldn't work on the weekend, but worked 8-10 hours a day solid during the week.

Up till this point most of the painters I had hired were chain smoking drunkards. This was a refreshing experience. And I give the credit to the general contractor. He obviously knew his subs and they in turn knew what was expected.

HEY Book,
 Man I used to work on construction sites doing Cat5 wireups. ILIKELEGS hit the nail on the head..they smoke lots of herb and are usually assholes. The meanest folks on the site were always the painters.  Really weird but it was the same at most job sites.

got a contract?  any provisions for no show?

what? you never heard of Aloha Friday...sucks to be you drone.

Yep, painters, roofers and drywallers don't exactly attract the "work ethic" employees.

Roofers are probably the worst of the lot (and before any of you roofers get bent out of shape, you know damn well I'm telling the truth).

A lot of these guys are subs, anyway.  Call the "boss", BookHound.  Tell him you'll be happy to give your business to a competitor.

Hire independent "woman-owned" contractors. They are competing in a man's field and tend to be more conscientious and diligent about their work. They are also much more picky about the people working for them.

get a good general contractor and pay the extra buck.....

Having just finished having a home built, I truely do feel your pain.  You know what really, really burns me up?  If these idiot were doing it for themselves, they'd probably take their time and do a good job.  Since your only paying them, they do a crappy job (if they eevr even show up).  

I will say this.  My neighbor is a painter.  He has very high ethics and is a professional to the end.  Can't say enough about him.  

With that said I used to think that contractors were contractors because they had a skill.  Now I think most were to stupid/lazy/dishonest to do anything else (like sell used cars).

Sloth

if you had to paint everyday you probably wouldn't even know where you were suppose to work. I can't believe people do that sh*t for a living.

anyways most construction workers just mess around trying to do just enough work not to get fired.

What time do you think he woke up? [:)]

Yes, your chances with the next guy are every bit as bad.  Now it's time for you to do some negotiating on the contract.  They f**ked up...get something in return.  

Sorry if I sound bitter, but I'm tired of being placed under a microscope because some subcontractor before me did his job half-assed and now I'm supposed to make everything "all better", on my dime no less.

Don't feel bad, the contractor I hired last year to do some work on my house was an asshole too, a real fucking moron. [nuts] Who in their right mind would sand a primed steel security door with #60 sand paper and then paint it with water based paint. He just couldn't understand why I called him back two weeks later because it rusted.
Long story.


I went back to doing my own work after that. (even though I don't have the time)

The only bright spot last year was the garage door company and their installer.

norman74
You left out one thing - gas for the bike.

After being burned by no-shows, I get a work completion date on a contract, and they don't get paid until the work is done - WTF do I look like, the bank?  They can get their cash flow elsewhere.

This goes double for gunsmiths.

Now I need to go chew out a contract employee ...

Same shit here too.  I had been trying for 6 months to get someone to reroof my house.  I contacted about 12 different places - some never called back, others said they would come out to look at the roof/give estimate and never showed.  Finally I got a guy last summer who agreed to do it and he even bought the supplies.  Its been 5 months and I still haven't seen the bastard.  I called him like 3 times in those 6 months and he keeps saying I'm finishing up another job and should be there next week, or you're next on my list.  

This past Tuesday I called a plumber to fix a cracked pipe in the basement.  The guy that answered the phone said he would have the next guy that came into the shop call me to set something up.  It's now Friday and no one F-ing called yet.

I'm fed up to here with all this B.S.!!  I too would have the courtesy to treat my customers right and not blow them off or screw them around.  Son-of-a-bitch I'm pissed off now!  I better cool down before I do something irrational.  I just had to share my frustration too.

Thanks for listening.

Pianters are normally one of two types of people, Preachers or Alcholics.. why I dont know, but this my experiance...

I have known 3 guys that were house painters by trade, and 2 of them were drunks, and the other was a preacher...

Hey! I can't believe you said that! Being (amongst other things) a painter myself, I, uhm, wait, you said "chain smoking drunkard"?
Nevermind, you do have a point there :P

One other thing I just thought of, it's only going to get worse.  Since the trades are looked down upon kids don't want to go into the trades.  The pay continues to get shittier, etc.

Whatever you do don't pay them until it's done, and put a clause in about it being done to your satisfaction.

One thing people miss out on is hiring the cheapest.  He's the cheapest for a reason; it's because he sucks.  The guys that are good will always get paid more.  Sounds like you hired a guy that works out of his van bookhound.  Next time go to sherwin-williams.


And this is different from everyone else in the world how exactly?  That statement sounds like 99% of the people in the world, not just construction workers.  To be honest, in alot of ways I don't see a problem with it.  Employers today think they can just shit on people because of the way the economy is.  I wouldn't bust my balls for some asshole either.  Bosses & owners really should be forced to take classes in management and people skills, it truly does go a long way.  Like it or not, the days of "I'm paying you so shut the fuck up and do it or I'll fire you" are over.

I worked as a property manager for a 600+ unit complex for several years.

I can tell you that it's impossible to install carpet without leaving a joint in the toilet, and a unit can't be painted w/o leaving a beer can somewhere on the property.

The carpet guys are difinetly worse that the painters in terms of responsibility, but the painters are all in a permanent stupor because of the fumes,

Get on This Old house and have them come out and help :)

Not sure what to tell you. I work as a full-time firefighter and anytime I have a question (or job) that requires a tradesperson I ask one of the guys or have them do the work. There's no shortage of guys who are either skilled/knowledgable carpenters, plumbers, electricians, landscapers, bricklayers, painters etc. For the most part, none of the guys are slackers or drunkards and get job done correctly and on time.

With that in mind you might ask around a local fire station if any of them do contracting work on the side.

This is a problem with the whole construction/home improvment business.

The thing is any asshole that can swing a hammer can put his name in the phonebook and advertise himself as a "contractor" or whatever.

As far as the help these guys hire,alot of it is just manual labor so there are alot of dopers and drinkers that just want to make a couplea hundred bucks to feed there habit and pay there motel bill ,then they have to take a few days off.

I used to work for a roofing company,mostley hot roof,and sometimes for bigger jobs we'd hire extra "help".

Usually these guys would rather be paid in greenbud than greenbacks,and more often than not would be chased off the roof by our foreman after a couplea days because they started showing up late or fucking up.

You think the stock market and accounting firms are unregulated?The construction business has gotta be the biggest crap shoot.

Usually I hire a large company(and pay alittle more) when I need a roof or plumbing job.Those guys are professional because they have a reputation to protect.I've had good luck with these types.

I've had bad luck with the "one man" type contracters or guys working outta their garage,although there are good ones out there.

An example of incompetence I've had recently is getting my lawn mowed.

It was the first mow of the season and was pretty long.

I've gotta half acre with the back being more a field than a golf course[:)]Usually takes about 2.5 hours with a weedwhack around the edges,so probably more like 3-3.5 with the extra length.

Anyhow I get the # of some guy from a coworker.

Talk to the guy on the phone and he gets $35 an hour to walk behind a mower,OK fine he says $100.

So he calls(actually he just didn't show,I had to track him down) in sick the first appointment(alowing another week of growth[rolleyes])
Finally shows up.I come home at lunch to pay this dude and of course he's a long hair.

I ask how much,he says it'll take him longer than he thought but he'll only charge $100 like he bid.I give him $110 because I know its a bitch and I want to motivate him.

So I get home from work and this guy didn't even finish mowing the entire lawn(left about a 4ft wide swath along one fense line(300ft long) and didn't weed whack the edges.

He also had this walk behind mower that blew the grass outta the side like a hydroplane rooster tail,blowing grass all over the structures and house.He said he would clean this up with gas blower,but only bothered to clean half his mess so there's grass all over one side of my house and the shed.

POS!

My brother is a Contractor, with a capital "C".  He has his own business, owns his own trucks (2) and 2 helpers.  He does roofs, additions, decks, interior remodeling, etc.  He has been in business for over 20 years and has never been without a 6 month backlog.  Never had to advertise. All his business comes from word-of-mouth.

His secret?  He keeps his promises.  He says he'll be out for an estimate? He'll be there or call well in advance to reschedule.  He may give you a 9 month lead-time, but he won't lie and say "two weeks".  He shows up early, stays late and works Saturdays. He subs his electrical, plumbing and painting.  When he started, if his subs were late with no call, left before the job was done or didn't show, he fired them and never used them again. Took him a while, but he has a good crew.

If you call a painter or a plumber and they are booked up for 6 months?--You know that they are in demand.  Get on the list and pay the extra if you can't do the job yourself.

If ever things are so tough that I need to take an extra job, it'll be handyman/painting.  It requires the least amount of specialized equipment and I know that all I have to do it keep my promises and I'll have all the work I can stand.

You're kidding, right?

I cut 3 acres twice a week until the end of June (then it's once a week). Spent $6.5K on a tractor w/a 60" deck 12 yrs. ago and do it all in 2hrs. I really don't like doing it, but look at the #'s on what it costs me per year.

Yeah ,well I gotta $300 Sears walk behind with a 21" deck.......So.......no I'm not kidding.

This is the truth!  My ex-roomie's little brother worked as a roofer for a long time.  He ended up getting promoted & then was recruited away by another contractor because he actually showed up everyday to work, unlike the rest of his crewmates.  He did have some motivation though...he was on parole & wasn't about to risk getting violated back inside because he got himself fired blowing off work.  Also since he was on parole=no dope or booze either so no reason to skip work to party.  He learned his lesson (not a knucklehead like most).

After getting a couple bids averaging 2500 I decided to paint my own place-one story,1950sq ft.

Bought my wife a pair of overalls,myself a pair,good paint sprayer, 25 gallons of paint, tape, tarps and beer etc.

We set out on a Friday afternoon by sanding, taping, tarping yada yada.

Got it all sanded and taped off by sunday and I started painting by monday I was done by friday plus a few extra hours to clean up and some pick-up.That's not working 8 hrs a day or breaking my back either.

The job turned out good and by the neighbors standards who got theirs painted by All-Pro Paint Contractors, great.Their watered down paint job is fading while mine is still like new.

Save yourself a few bucks and do it yourself.I've even let a couple friends borrow my sprayer and tarps.So, it's paid off for me and a couple buddies.

I saved a lot of money doing it myself.

Oh, how F'n true!  I am Director of Security for a 1387 unit complex.  Part of my guys duty is to check renovated/readys for any suspicious activities.  They constantly find six-paks in the fridge and emptys every where after the subs leave.  Hell, I've found their staff sleeping overnight in the units their working in.  They move in, cook, shower and party til the jobs done.

Oh good a tradesman rant topic,
I have been re-doing the den and a spare bedromm,somethings I do myself and others I hire pro's.
The carpenter shows up when he wants and gets calls from his wife on my private line I was dunb enough to give to him in case he needed to get in touch with me,that phone number will follow me around the whole world if need be and I usually only give to very close friends or important clients of for emergencices.

Now she is calling on it 5 times a day and then he says he has to go , WTF!
Now yesterday he shows up in a "cease fire" T-shirt and says he noticed my gun safes and thought he would show what he thought about guns, I repeat ,WTF!

[size=5][red]Does anyone know of a good carpenter in the NJ area he's toast! GONE! "see ya! get the fuck off my property you fucking commie liberal democratic scumbag!"[/red][/size=5]

Sometimes.

OTOH, my neighbor hired a woman contractor to do his central heating.  That was over a year ago.  The job is half completed and the "two-week" vacation in Florida she left on turned out to be more like "too bad" -- she never returned.....

Incoming!  Check yer email.

watch it bubba

As bad as everyone's contractors seem to be "on the outside" I thought I would share my experiences with our UNION represented (though we aren't required to join it) Repair people who work for the Polk County School Board (I'm a Telecom worker, who happens to work around them all the time in our new construction projects).

I have yet to see shitty work out of our guys. . . they work 4 10-hour days and I have never seen them just skip a job, or not show up.  The carpenters are FAST and square, the electricians do it by the book and the painters don't spill or splatter ANYWHERE!

I have to say I was shocked at how professionally and quickly "our guys" do the work compared to the subs that they sometimes hire when there is too much work for "our guys" to get done.

The same is said of my department as far as quality and speed goes.  No one wires prettier or quicker than my team.  And no labeling goofs or miswires get by us!


I know you probably don't believe it but its true, so don't always bash unions, not that this thread has because it hasn't.  Our union seems to work just fine.  Only complaint I have is the very few individuals who shirk their duties are too difficult to fire for my taste.  If I want something done I'll definitely be asking my fellow employees if they want the job first before going to a sub.

As a bonus, some of them work for supper and beer (though you shouldn't give em the beer till after the jobs done).

It's the fumes.  [%|]

What county?

I've got a news flash for ya! Ya don't pressure wash one day, and paint the next. It needs a coupla days to dry out. Besides, Fridays are painters day for the pool tables! [:D]

I've yet to meet a commercial painter that isn't goofy. I've met some that are otherwise reliable, but still goofy.

My worst experience was with a roofing company, though. We were doing a major roof replacement project at a manufacturing plant in Kansas City. 35,000 square feet of roof on three adjacent buildings. We had a general contractor that was doing the tear-off and demolition of existing mechanical stuff themselves, but they subbed the roof itself to a VERY WELL KNOWN roofing company in Kansas City. This was in 1993. So on a Monday, the GC foreman and I call the roofing company to let them know that we'll be ready to lay roof on Thursday. The roofeing company says, "Great. We'll have materials on sit tomorrow, and a crew ready to go at 7:00 Thursday."

OK. Well, Tuesday comes and goes; no materials. Wednesday morning comes and goes; no materials. We call Wednesday noon to inquire. "Yeah, the truck broke down yesterday. We're on our way with materials right now." Right. At 4:00, still no materials, so we call. "Yeah, the driver got lost. He's on his way. If he's not there by 5:00, he'll just come in the morning with the roofing crew."

Right. So, we wait, and the materials never show. I'm back on site at 0630 the next day, Thursday. 7:00 comes and goes; no crew, no materials. We call. Get this: "Yeah, well, we had a hurricane this week, and all the materials are tied up in Florida."

Holy SHIT!?!?! The GC foreman, about 6'-6", 320 lbs, jumps up out of his chair, is holding the phone in his giant paw about a foot from his face, which is at this point beet-red. "BullShit! WE didn't have a hurricane - FLORIDA had a hurricane! You've got 30 minutes to get your ass on site, with materials, ready to do some work!" BAM! He actually shattered the phone hsnging it up.

The crew showed up, finally, at 9:30 on Monday. The roofing contractor had his contract reduced by $4,000.00 for liquidated damages which he agreed to pay, since he was originally enticed by the prospect of a $1,000/day bonus for getting done early. They have never worked for the GC again, to my knowledge, and they have never worked at the particular plant, either, which spends about $150,000/yr on roofs. All because they were talking out of their ass.

BookHound, after reading the $500 post and this one, I have just one question.

Are you [b]SURE[/b] you are not related to ComputerGuy?

[;)]

When the Wife and I were looking to move-up to a larger house about 10 years ago, We looked at what was available and decided that it made better sense to build Our own. I Asked/looked around for someone to do the basement work and hired a Union 4th generation Mason, after getting good reports about his work from co-workers. Well I can't count the times I waited for Him and his crew to show up, or finish work that I was told would be done on a specific date, only to have them not show up or show up stoned.


I'm being kind when I say that the work that was done is bad. My basement is "racked" over 5" out of square. This was found only when the modular home had arrived from Illinois and was being fit onto the foundation. I got a call from a friend who was acting as my eyes & ears on site as I had to work (Over 30 miles away) and needed the $$$ to pay for the new home. Luckily I had had Him use 12" block to do the basement and there was just enough of a "Fudge factor" to get the house to sit on the foundation. This was after I had fired the guy and His crew just paid him for what he had done & what little materials I had not bought myself.

This was only the start, and I ended up doing almost everything else myself. In the end it would have been cheaper (And better) to take a 6-month leave, Pay myself My normal wage, and just do all of the work myself. I would have had a house with fewer problems, sooner!

I do hire people to do work, but they have to prove to me that they are worth it first. I also agree with everyone else who has said to get a completion date IN THE CONTRACT! and what penalty the contractor pays when/if it's not done by that date.


Tall Shadow

They probably got paid yesterday and are now too drunk or stoned to work.  Never pay laborers before 1500 on a Friday.

Hey [b]BookHound[/b], if you knew a few pretty decent guys that you don't mind spending time with and at least one of them doesn't have a job(but used to do construction) currently and another one is handy with a brush and roller, you just might have the means to get the painting finished. I know where a bunch of them will be next Sat. Oh, wait, you've got no cash...forget that idea.[:D]


ByteTheBullet  (-: