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Posted: 6/20/2016 5:49:42 PM EDT
If you are on these lists and cannot fly or buy a gun, the government should prove it and you should be locked up....Period. If you didn't break the law, the the government should fuck right off. The same goes for someone convicted of a felony...if we can't trust you with a gun, you should be in jail....if you served your time, your rights should be restored.
Someone may freak out, go bizerk and kill a lot of people. Someone may say something that hurts your feelz. Someone may even say something racist or suggest Communism hasn't been tried the right way.... There is a cost and risk associated with living in a society that has the best system ever developed by man. Were the Bill of Rights just a suggestion? Sorry if this sounds like a pointless rant...sitting at a gate in the airport with CNN blaring above me while I listen to the lemmings go back and forth and just not getting it....  |
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Posted: 6/20/2016 5:51:56 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
If you are on these lists and cannot fly or buy a gun, the government should prove it and you should be locked up....Period. If you didn't break the law, the the government should fuck right off. The same goes for someone convicted of a felony...if we can't trust you with a gun, you should be in jail....if you served your time, your rights should be restored. Someone may freak out, go bizerk and kill a lot of people. Someone may say something that hurts your feelz. Someone may even say something racist or suggest Communism hasn't been tried the right way.... There is a cost and risk associated with living in a society that has the best system ever developed by man. Were the Bill of Rights just a suggestion? Sorry if this sounds like a pointless rant...sitting at a gate in the airport with CNN blaring above me while I listen to the lemmings go back and forth and just not getting it....
Agreed, but how does the left frame that argument to the moronic masses? You support Felons and Terrorist having deadly weapons. |
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Posted: 6/20/2016 5:53:40 PM EDT
[#2]
...because "lists" give otherwise useless people, something to do.
A.W.D. |
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Posted: 6/20/2016 5:54:30 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Agreed, but how does the left frame that argument to the moronic masses? You support Felons and Terrorist having deadly weapons. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If you are on these lists and cannot fly or buy a gun, the government should prove it and you should be locked up....Period. If you didn't break the law, the the government should fuck right off. The same goes for someone convicted of a felony...if we can't trust you with a gun, you should be in jail....if you served your time, your rights should be restored. Someone may freak out, go bizerk and kill a lot of people. Someone may say something that hurts your feelz. Someone may even say something racist or suggest Communism hasn't been tried the right way.... There is a cost and risk associated with living in a society that has the best system ever developed by man. Were the Bill of Rights just a suggestion? Sorry if this sounds like a pointless rant...sitting at a gate in the airport with CNN blaring above me while I listen to the lemmings go back and forth and just not getting it.... Agreed, but how does the left frame that argument to the moronic masses? You support Felons and Terrorist having deadly weapons. Why does the left support having second class citizens, stripped of their civil rights?  |
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Posted: 6/20/2016 5:55:19 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Agreed, but how does the left frame that argument to the moronic masses? You support Felons and Terrorist having deadly weapons. He was just about to turn his life around after being released from prison. Now he's a terrorist. 
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Posted: 6/20/2016 5:56:48 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Agreed, but how does the left frame that argument to the moronic masses? You support Felons and Terrorist having deadly weapons. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If you are on these lists and cannot fly or buy a gun, the government should prove it and you should be locked up....Period. If you didn't break the law, the the government should fuck right off. The same goes for someone convicted of a felony...if we can't trust you with a gun, you should be in jail....if you served your time, your rights should be restored. Someone may freak out, go bizerk and kill a lot of people. Someone may say something that hurts your feelz. Someone may even say something racist or suggest Communism hasn't been tried the right way.... There is a cost and risk associated with living in a society that has the best system ever developed by man. Were the Bill of Rights just a suggestion? Sorry if this sounds like a pointless rant...sitting at a gate in the airport with CNN blaring above me while I listen to the lemmings go back and forth and just not getting it....
Agreed, but how does the left frame that argument to the moronic masses? You support Felons and Terrorist having deadly weapons. Um, just an fyi, recidivism for felons is pretty high, don't have the percentages in front of me, but hell fuck no to felons getting out of prison and gun rights being restored. Now a panel to conduct hearings for non violent felons, after a certain time frame..maybe. |
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Posted: 6/20/2016 6:05:07 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Um, just an fyi, recidivism for felons is pretty high, don't have the percentages in front of me, but hell fuck no to felons getting out of prison and gun rights being restored. Now a panel to conduct hearings for non violent felons, after a certain time frame..maybe. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: If you are on these lists and cannot fly or buy a gun, the government should prove it and you should be locked up....Period. If you didn't break the law, the the government should fuck right off. The same goes for someone convicted of a felony...if we can't trust you with a gun, you should be in jail....if you served your time, your rights should be restored. Someone may freak out, go bizerk and kill a lot of people. Someone may say something that hurts your feelz. Someone may even say something racist or suggest Communism hasn't been tried the right way.... There is a cost and risk associated with living in a society that has the best system ever developed by man. Were the Bill of Rights just a suggestion? Sorry if this sounds like a pointless rant...sitting at a gate in the airport with CNN blaring above me while I listen to the lemmings go back and forth and just not getting it.... Agreed, but how does the left frame that argument to the moronic masses? You support Felons and Terrorist having deadly weapons. Um, just an fyi, recidivism for felons is pretty high, don't have the percentages in front of me, but hell fuck no to felons getting out of prison and gun rights being restored. Now a panel to conduct hearings for non violent felons, after a certain time frame..maybe. |
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Posted: 6/20/2016 6:15:57 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just don't agree.. what you are saying is that the prison term was not long enough. And, you're contradicting the general argument made here - if someone wants a gun, they will get a gun. Regardless of any laws preventing such... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:
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If you are on these lists and cannot fly or buy a gun, the government should prove it and you should be locked up....Period. If you didn't break the law, the the government should fuck right off. The same goes for someone convicted of a felony...if we can't trust you with a gun, you should be in jail....if you served your time, your rights should be restored. Someone may freak out, go bizerk and kill a lot of people. Someone may say something that hurts your feelz. Someone may even say something racist or suggest Communism hasn't been tried the right way.... There is a cost and risk associated with living in a society that has the best system ever developed by man. Were the Bill of Rights just a suggestion? Sorry if this sounds like a pointless rant...sitting at a gate in the airport with CNN blaring above me while I listen to the lemmings go back and forth and just not getting it....
Agreed, but how does the left frame that argument to the moronic masses? You support Felons and Terrorist having deadly weapons. Um, just an fyi, recidivism for felons is pretty high, don't have the percentages in front of me, but hell fuck no to felons getting out of prison and gun rights being restored. Now a panel to conduct hearings for non violent felons, after a certain time frame..maybe. What I am saying is that a lot of violent felons, will be back in prison sooner or later, I do not favor arming them if they choose upon their release. |
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Posted: 6/20/2016 6:19:03 PM EDT
[#8]
Maybe so. But statistics should not cause you to loose your rights.
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Posted: 6/20/2016 6:21:57 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What I am saying is that a lot of violent felons, will be back in prison sooner or later, I do not favor arming them if they choose upon their release. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you are on these lists and cannot fly or buy a gun, the government should prove it and you should be locked up....Period. If you didn't break the law, the the government should fuck right off. The same goes for someone convicted of a felony...if we can't trust you with a gun, you should be in jail....if you served your time, your rights should be restored. Someone may freak out, go bizerk and kill a lot of people. Someone may say something that hurts your feelz. Someone may even say something racist or suggest Communism hasn't been tried the right way.... There is a cost and risk associated with living in a society that has the best system ever developed by man. Were the Bill of Rights just a suggestion? Sorry if this sounds like a pointless rant...sitting at a gate in the airport with CNN blaring above me while I listen to the lemmings go back and forth and just not getting it....
Agreed, but how does the left frame that argument to the moronic masses? You support Felons and Terrorist having deadly weapons. Um, just an fyi, recidivism for felons is pretty high, don't have the percentages in front of me, but hell fuck no to felons getting out of prison and gun rights being restored. Now a panel to conduct hearings for non violent felons, after a certain time frame..maybe. What I am saying is that a lot of violent felons, will be back in prison sooner or later, I do not favor arming them if they choose upon their release. So you don't support the 2nd Amendment? Or you just support it for the right people? Sounds like you're good with the "no-fly, no-buy" proposal, at least in spirit. 
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Posted: 6/20/2016 6:23:05 PM EDT
[#10]
The Patriot Act was about fascist government overreach because the Bill of Rights has all these pesky Amendments that makes it hard for government to oppress its subjects.
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Posted: 6/20/2016 6:30:09 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe so. But statistics should not cause you to loose your rights. My opinion only: Violent felons are more likely to commit more crime when they can, I believe the figures are that between 50-75 % will be back in prison. It may be using stats but those stats are solid and have been for decades. A lot of these people can't function on the outside like you and I. If you get 20 years for armed robbery and you get out...fuck you(not you op) and your gun rights. Felons are profiled by leo's for a reason, they are felons.
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Posted: 6/20/2016 6:30:27 PM EDT
[#12]
Because it is LITERALLY a catch all description.
It is a well thought out back door to screw you out of all God Given/Natural Rights (Constitution does not grant you any rights - just affirms them btw). There was a compilation a way back where a website had numerous examples of .gov briefs to .mil/.gov/state officials of what "MIGHT" constitute "domestic terrorism". If you are merely "suspected" one would be subject to the "measures" under NDAA - i.e. no rights what so ever. EDIT - found it... http://www.thedailysheeple.com/72-types-of-americans-that-are-considered-potential-terrorists-in-official-government-documents_082013 |
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Posted: 6/20/2016 6:35:20 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So you don't support the 2nd Amendment? Or you just support it for the right people? Sounds like you're good with the "no-fly, no-buy" proposal, at least in spirit. Support it and belong to the NRA, do you really think the original idea behind it included prior convicted felons, or even people with mental issues 
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Posted: 6/20/2016 6:45:40 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Support it and belong to the NRA, do you really think the original idea behind it included prior convicted felons, or even people with mental issues Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So you don't support the 2nd Amendment? Or you just support it for the right people? Sounds like you're good with the "no-fly, no-buy" proposal, at least in spirit. Support it and belong to the NRA, do you really think the original idea behind it included prior convicted felons, or even people with mental issues Something is either a right or it is not. |
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Posted: 6/20/2016 7:06:50 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Support it and belong to the NRA, do you really think the original idea behind it included prior convicted felons, or even people with mental issues Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So you don't support the 2nd Amendment? Or you just support it for the right people? Sounds like you're good with the "no-fly, no-buy" proposal, at least in spirit. Support it and belong to the NRA, do you really think the original idea behind it included prior convicted felons, or even people with mental issues yes it did.hence the words shall not be infringed. Felons lost their 2nd rights with the 1968 GCA. |
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Posted: 6/20/2016 7:19:59 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Um, just an fyi, recidivism for felons is pretty high, don't have the percentages in front of me, but hell fuck no to felons getting out of prison and gun rights being restored. Now a panel to conduct hearings for non violent felons, after a certain time frame..maybe. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you are on these lists and cannot fly or buy a gun, the government should prove it and you should be locked up....Period. If you didn't break the law, the the government should fuck right off. The same goes for someone convicted of a felony...if we can't trust you with a gun, you should be in jail....if you served your time, your rights should be restored. Someone may freak out, go bizerk and kill a lot of people. Someone may say something that hurts your feelz. Someone may even say something racist or suggest Communism hasn't been tried the right way.... There is a cost and risk associated with living in a society that has the best system ever developed by man. Were the Bill of Rights just a suggestion? Sorry if this sounds like a pointless rant...sitting at a gate in the airport with CNN blaring above me while I listen to the lemmings go back and forth and just not getting it....
Agreed, but how does the left frame that argument to the moronic masses? You support Felons and Terrorist having deadly weapons. Um, just an fyi, recidivism for felons is pretty high, don't have the percentages in front of me, but hell fuck no to felons getting out of prison and gun rights being restored. Now a panel to conduct hearings for non violent felons, after a certain time frame..maybe. You know how easy it is to get a felony nowadays, from an innocent fuck up? Gotta make everyone criminals, government has no power over a society of free men and law abiding citizens. |
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Posted: 6/20/2016 7:23:19 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Support it and belong to the NRA, do you really think the original idea behind it included prior convicted felons, or even people with mental issues Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So you don't support the 2nd Amendment? Or you just support it for the right people? Sounds like you're good with the "no-fly, no-buy" proposal, at least in spirit. Support it and belong to the NRA, do you really think the original idea behind it included prior convicted felons, or even people with mental issues I respect your opinion that felons shouldn't be allowed to have guns... I actually agree with it in spirit, fun and jubilation. However, it's not correct to follow feelings on these issues. The Bill of Rights is very clear....crystal
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Posted: 6/20/2016 9:34:32 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The mentally retarded or insane issue is not the road I want to go down...it's like when liberals say that "well, so, right to own arms must also included nuclear weapons" I respect your opinion that felons shouldn't be allowed to have guns... I actually agree with it in spirit, fun and jubilation. However, it's not correct to follow feelings on these issues. The Bill of Rights is very clear....crystal
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So you don't support the 2nd Amendment? Or you just support it for the right people? Sounds like you're good with the "no-fly, no-buy" proposal, at least in spirit. Support it and belong to the NRA, do you really think the original idea behind it included prior convicted felons, or even people with mental issues I respect your opinion that felons shouldn't be allowed to have guns... I actually agree with it in spirit, fun and jubilation. However, it's not correct to follow feelings on these issues. The Bill of Rights is very clear....crystal
I appreciate your opinion, I actually find this topic very interesting. And while feelings always come into play, I'd like to think that our common sense has to be used. Now common sense is a very broad term, interpret that how you will. I will not go down the nuclear weapon road either as I don't find any logic in it. |
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Posted: 6/20/2016 9:37:00 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
yes it did.hence the words shall not be infringed. Felons lost their 2nd rights with the 1968 GCA. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So you don't support the 2nd Amendment? Or you just support it for the right people? Sounds like you're good with the "no-fly, no-buy" proposal, at least in spirit. Support it and belong to the NRA, do you really think the original idea behind it included prior convicted felons, or even people with mental issues yes it did.hence the words shall not be infringed. Felons lost their 2nd rights with the 1968 GCA. I respect your opinion but have to disagree. 
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Posted: 6/20/2016 9:39:21 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You know how easy it is to get a felony nowadays, from an innocent fuck up? Gotta make everyone criminals, government has no power over a society of free men and law abiding citizens. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If you are on these lists and cannot fly or buy a gun, the government should prove it and you should be locked up....Period. If you didn't break the law, the the government should fuck right off. The same goes for someone convicted of a felony...if we can't trust you with a gun, you should be in jail....if you served your time, your rights should be restored. Someone may freak out, go bizerk and kill a lot of people. Someone may say something that hurts your feelz. Someone may even say something racist or suggest Communism hasn't been tried the right way.... There is a cost and risk associated with living in a society that has the best system ever developed by man. Were the Bill of Rights just a suggestion? Sorry if this sounds like a pointless rant...sitting at a gate in the airport with CNN blaring above me while I listen to the lemmings go back and forth and just not getting it....
Agreed, but how does the left frame that argument to the moronic masses? You support Felons and Terrorist having deadly weapons. Um, just an fyi, recidivism for felons is pretty high, don't have the percentages in front of me, but hell fuck no to felons getting out of prison and gun rights being restored. Now a panel to conduct hearings for non violent felons, after a certain time frame..maybe. You know how easy it is to get a felony nowadays, from an innocent fuck up? Gotta make everyone criminals, government has no power over a society of free men and law abiding citizens. In bold: I hear ya and I also said violent felons and was also discussing repeat offenders. I was not talking white collar crime, to some there is no difference though. |
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Posted: 6/20/2016 10:08:57 PM EDT
[#21]
Sort of got off topic...back to the original question, were this "list" powers acquired thru the Patriot Act legislation? Some may say that I don't have the right to fly...but, I do have the right to bear arms...Therefore any list that prevents that right if I'm not convicted/jailed, is unconstitutional without question.
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Posted: 6/21/2016 6:33:36 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sort of got off topic...back to the original question, were this "list" powers acquired thru the Patriot Act legislation? Some may say that I don't have the right to fly...but, I do have the right to bear arms...Therefore any list that prevents that right if I'm not convicted/jailed, is unconstitutional without question. I did a quick search this morning and did not see where the no fly list was directly linked to the patriot act, but it was created post 9/11, during the same time frame. Now that I have googled, patriot act, and no fly list, I am probably on a list 
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Posted: 6/21/2016 6:39:08 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sort of got off topic...back to the original question, were this "list" powers acquired thru the Patriot Act legislation? Some may say that I don't have the right to fly...but, I do have the right to bear arms...Therefore any list that prevents that right if I'm not convicted/jailed, is unconstitutional without question. There are no "powers" associated with any of these "lists." That's the point being made by those who oppose the bans. There is a legitimate reason for NCTC and the FBI to maintain lists of actual terrorists. Those of us who fought overseas were well aware that we were collecting data which would help keep those people out of the US. But the TSA has no business getting involved, because they are a clown car filled with monkeys. How about a "no welfare list" or a "no vote list"? Or how about an "arrest that terrorist and charge him with a crime list"? |
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Posted: 6/21/2016 6:43:18 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I did a quick search this morning and did not see where the no fly list was directly linked to the patriot act, but it was created post 9/11, during the same time frame. Now that I have googled, patriot act, and no fly list, I am probably on a list Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Sort of got off topic...back to the original question, were this "list" powers acquired thru the Patriot Act legislation? Some may say that I don't have the right to fly...but, I do have the right to bear arms...Therefore any list that prevents that right if I'm not convicted/jailed, is unconstitutional without question. I did a quick search this morning and did not see where the no fly list was directly linked to the patriot act, but it was created post 9/11, during the same time frame. Now that I have googled, patriot act, and no fly list, I am probably on a list Welcome to the party pal.    
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Posted: 6/21/2016 6:51:16 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My opinion only: Violent felons are more likely to commit more crime when they can, I believe the figures are that between 50-75 % will be back in prison. It may be using stats but those stats are solid and have been for decades. A lot of these people can't function on the outside like you and I. If you get 20 years for armed robbery and you get out...fuck you(not you op) and your gun rights. Felons are profiled by leo's for a reason, they are felons. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Maybe so. But statistics should not cause you to loose your rights. My opinion only: Violent felons are more likely to commit more crime when they can, I believe the figures are that between 50-75 % will be back in prison. It may be using stats but those stats are solid and have been for decades. A lot of these people can't function on the outside like you and I. If you get 20 years for armed robbery and you get out...fuck you(not you op) and your gun rights. Felons are profiled by leo's for a reason, they are felons. I think the core problem is they don't spend enough time behind bars locked away from society. The legal system has become a revolving door. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 6/21/2016 8:13:06 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There are no "powers" associated with any of these "lists." That's the point being made by those who oppose the bans. There is a legitimate reason for NCTC and the FBI to maintain lists of actual terrorists. Those of us who fought overseas were well aware that we were collecting data which would help keep those people out of the US. But the TSA has no business getting involved, because they are a clown car filled with monkeys. How about a "no welfare list" or a "no vote list"? Or how about an "arrest that terrorist and charge him with a crime list"? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Sort of got off topic...back to the original question, were this "list" powers acquired thru the Patriot Act legislation? Some may say that I don't have the right to fly...but, I do have the right to bear arms...Therefore any list that prevents that right if I'm not convicted/jailed, is unconstitutional without question. There are no "powers" associated with any of these "lists." That's the point being made by those who oppose the bans. There is a legitimate reason for NCTC and the FBI to maintain lists of actual terrorists. Those of us who fought overseas were well aware that we were collecting data which would help keep those people out of the US. But the TSA has no business getting involved, because they are a clown car filled with monkeys. How about a "no welfare list" or a "no vote list"? Or how about an "arrest that terrorist and charge him with a crime list"? In bold: According to what I saw this morning while reading on this,TSA is not involved, it is TSC..US Terrorist Screening Center, the list is created and maintained by them.
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Posted: 6/21/2016 8:48:21 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In bold: According to what I saw this morning while reading on this,TSA is not involved, it is TSC..US Terrorist Screening Center, the list is created and maintained by them.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Sort of got off topic...back to the original question, were this "list" powers acquired thru the Patriot Act legislation? Some may say that I don't have the right to fly...but, I do have the right to bear arms...Therefore any list that prevents that right if I'm not convicted/jailed, is unconstitutional without question. There are no "powers" associated with any of these "lists." That's the point being made by those who oppose the bans. There is a legitimate reason for NCTC and the FBI to maintain lists of actual terrorists. Those of us who fought overseas were well aware that we were collecting data which would help keep those people out of the US. But the TSA has no business getting involved, because they are a clown car filled with monkeys. How about a "no welfare list" or a "no vote list"? Or how about an "arrest that terrorist and charge him with a crime list"? In bold: According to what I saw this morning while reading on this,TSA is not involved, it is TSC..US Terrorist Screening Center, the list is created and maintained by them.
No. The TSC is FBI. The No Fly List is TSA. |
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Posted: 6/21/2016 8:53:43 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I respect your opinion but have to disagree. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So you don't support the 2nd Amendment? Or you just support it for the right people? Sounds like you're good with the "no-fly, no-buy" proposal, at least in spirit. Support it and belong to the NRA, do you really think the original idea behind it included prior convicted felons, or even people with mental issues yes it did.hence the words shall not be infringed. Felons lost their 2nd rights with the 1968 GCA. I respect your opinion but have to disagree. Disagree with the sentiment all you want, but the law did not prohibit people who had been convicted of felonies from owning firearms upon release until 1934 (in the case of violent felonies,) then 1968 (for all felonies,) then misdemeanor DV crimes got added in 1993. |
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Posted: 6/21/2016 9:16:06 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No. The TSC is FBI. The No Fly List is TSA. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Sort of got off topic...back to the original question, were this "list" powers acquired thru the Patriot Act legislation? Some may say that I don't have the right to fly...but, I do have the right to bear arms...Therefore any list that prevents that right if I'm not convicted/jailed, is unconstitutional without question. There are no "powers" associated with any of these "lists." That's the point being made by those who oppose the bans. There is a legitimate reason for NCTC and the FBI to maintain lists of actual terrorists. Those of us who fought overseas were well aware that we were collecting data which would help keep those people out of the US. But the TSA has no business getting involved, because they are a clown car filled with monkeys. How about a "no welfare list" or a "no vote list"? Or how about an "arrest that terrorist and charge him with a crime list"? In bold: According to what I saw this morning while reading on this,TSA is not involved, it is TSC..US Terrorist Screening Center, the list is created and maintained by them.
No. The TSC is FBI. The No Fly List is TSA. In bold: Will you give me a source for this please, cause what I read does not say that
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Posted: 6/21/2016 9:19:29 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In bold: Will you give me a source for this please, cause what I read does not say that Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
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Sort of got off topic...back to the original question, were this "list" powers acquired thru the Patriot Act legislation? Some may say that I don't have the right to fly...but, I do have the right to bear arms...Therefore any list that prevents that right if I'm not convicted/jailed, is unconstitutional without question. There are no "powers" associated with any of these "lists." That's the point being made by those who oppose the bans. There is a legitimate reason for NCTC and the FBI to maintain lists of actual terrorists. Those of us who fought overseas were well aware that we were collecting data which would help keep those people out of the US. But the TSA has no business getting involved, because they are a clown car filled with monkeys. How about a "no welfare list" or a "no vote list"? Or how about an "arrest that terrorist and charge him with a crime list"? In bold: According to what I saw this morning while reading on this,TSA is not involved, it is TSC..US Terrorist Screening Center, the list is created and maintained by them.
No. The TSC is FBI. The No Fly List is TSA. In bold: Will you give me a source for this please, cause what I read does not say that This is a copy/paste from the TSA website. No Fly List The No Fly List is a small subset of the U.S. government Terrorist Screening Database (also known as the terrorist watchlist) that contains the identity information of known or suspected terrorists. This database is maintained by the FBI’s Terrorist Screening Center. For more information about the Terrorist Screening Database, visit the Terrorist Screening Center. TSA is among the U.S. government agencies that screen individuals using information from the Terrorist Screening Database. TSA implements the No Fly List through its Secure Flight program. Individuals on the No Fly List are prevented from boarding an aircraft when flying within, to, from and over the United States. |
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Posted: 6/21/2016 9:20:10 AM EDT
[#31]
It is funny seeing liberals who bitched and moan about the shitty Patriot Act clamor to use it to deny people the right to own guns.
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Posted: 6/21/2016 9:23:22 AM EDT
[#32]
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In bold: Will you give me a source for this please, cause what I read does not say that Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Sort of got off topic...back to the original question, were this "list" powers acquired thru the Patriot Act legislation? Some may say that I don't have the right to fly...but, I do have the right to bear arms...Therefore any list that prevents that right if I'm not convicted/jailed, is unconstitutional without question. There are no "powers" associated with any of these "lists." That's the point being made by those who oppose the bans. There is a legitimate reason for NCTC and the FBI to maintain lists of actual terrorists. Those of us who fought overseas were well aware that we were collecting data which would help keep those people out of the US. But the TSA has no business getting involved, because they are a clown car filled with monkeys. How about a "no welfare list" or a "no vote list"? Or how about an "arrest that terrorist and charge him with a crime list"? In bold: According to what I saw this morning while reading on this,TSA is not involved, it is TSC..US Terrorist Screening Center, the list is created and maintained by them.
No. The TSC is FBI. The No Fly List is TSA. In bold: Will you give me a source for this please, cause what I read does not say that Use google. The No Fly List is TSA. |
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Posted: 6/21/2016 9:23:42 AM EDT
[#33]
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Disagree with the sentiment all you want, but the law did not prohibit people who had been convicted of felonies from owning firearms upon release until 1934 (in the case of violent felonies,) then 1968 (for all felonies,) then misdemeanor DV crimes got added in 1993. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So you don't support the 2nd Amendment? Or you just support it for the right people? Sounds like you're good with the "no-fly, no-buy" proposal, at least in spirit. Support it and belong to the NRA, do you really think the original idea behind it included prior convicted felons, or even people with mental issues yes it did.hence the words shall not be infringed. Felons lost their 2nd rights with the 1968 GCA. I respect your opinion but have to disagree. Disagree with the sentiment all you want, but the law did not prohibit people who had been convicted of felonies from owning firearms upon release until 1934 (in the case of violent felonies,) then 1968 (for all felonies,) then misdemeanor DV crimes got added in 1993. Okay..I will admit when I'm wrong, as others have pointed out regarding the hardcore, true, actual meaning. But no matter, as violent felons with access to firearms is still a bad idea, it's beyond bad, it's ludicrous. |
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Posted: 6/21/2016 9:56:48 AM EDT
[#34]
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Use google. The No Fly List is TSA. TSA doesn't decide who is on the No Fly List. TSC determines who is on that list. TSA's role is to make sure people on that list don't fly. |
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Posted: 6/21/2016 10:27:11 AM EDT
[#35]
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TSA doesn't decide who is on the No Fly List. TSC determines who is on that list. TSA's role is to make sure people on that list don't fly. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Use google. The No Fly List is TSA. TSA doesn't decide who is on the No Fly List. TSC determines who is on that list. TSA's role is to make sure people on that list don't fly. The TSA role is FAR more than that. TSA is the public interface with the No Fly List. The TSC does not "use" the No Fly List. TSA uses it, and they (DHS) is where you go with any petitions to be removed from the list. You are correct in that they have no direct connection to the FBI/TSC database. This is why it is such a problem. There is no contextual data available to the TSA screeners; just names, or SIMILAR names. People have been placed on the No Fly Lists for reasons OTHER than involvement or suspected involvement in Terrorism. |
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Posted: 6/21/2016 10:37:34 AM EDT
[#36]
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The TSA role is FAR more than that. TSA is the public interface with the No Fly List. The TSC does not "use" the No Fly List. TSA uses it, and they (DHS) is where you go with any petitions to be removed from the list. You are correct in that they have no direct connection to the FBI/TSC database. This is why it is such a problem. There is no contextual data available to the TSA screeners; just names, or SIMILAR names. People have been placed on the No Fly Lists for reasons OTHER than involvement or suspected involvement in Terrorism. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Use google. The No Fly List is TSA. TSA doesn't decide who is on the No Fly List. TSC determines who is on that list. TSA's role is to make sure people on that list don't fly. The TSA role is FAR more than that. TSA is the public interface with the No Fly List. The TSC does not "use" the No Fly List. TSA uses it, and they (DHS) is where you go with any petitions to be removed from the list. You are correct in that they have no direct connection to the FBI/TSC database. This is why it is such a problem. There is no contextual data available to the TSA screeners; just names, or SIMILAR names. People have been placed on the No Fly Lists for reasons OTHER than involvement or suspected involvement in Terrorism. In bold: This is actually a well know problem , so I thought. One of the more known cases was Ted Kennedy, he had issues and griped about it in congress, supposedly took him 3 weeks to get his name removed, he appealed directly to Tom Ridge. |
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Posted: 6/21/2016 10:41:59 AM EDT
[#37]
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The TSA role is FAR more than that. TSA is the public interface with the No Fly List. The TSC does not "use" the No Fly List. TSA uses it, and they (DHS) is where you go with any petitions to be removed from the list. You are correct in that they have no direct connection to the FBI/TSC database. This is why it is such a problem. There is no contextual data available to the TSA screeners; just names, or SIMILAR names. People have been placed on the No Fly Lists for reasons OTHER than involvement or suspected involvement in Terrorism. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Use google. The No Fly List is TSA. TSA doesn't decide who is on the No Fly List. TSC determines who is on that list. TSA's role is to make sure people on that list don't fly. The TSA role is FAR more than that. TSA is the public interface with the No Fly List. The TSC does not "use" the No Fly List. TSA uses it, and they (DHS) is where you go with any petitions to be removed from the list. You are correct in that they have no direct connection to the FBI/TSC database. This is why it is such a problem. There is no contextual data available to the TSA screeners; just names, or SIMILAR names. People have been placed on the No Fly Lists for reasons OTHER than involvement or suspected involvement in Terrorism. If somebody is on the No Fly List, s/he wouldn't reach the checkpoint because they wouldn't have a boarding pass. Yes, the system isn't perfect. Nothing is perfect. However, there is a redress system for those people are on the No Fly List. I know of one guy that was put onto the No Fly List. He flies now because he went through the redress system. |
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Posted: 6/21/2016 10:42:56 AM EDT
[#38]
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In bold: This is actually a well know problem , so I thought. One of the more known cases was Ted Kennedy, he had issues and griped about it in congress, supposedly took him 3 weeks to get his name removed, he appealed directly to Tom Ridge. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Use google. The No Fly List is TSA. TSA doesn't decide who is on the No Fly List. TSC determines who is on that list. TSA's role is to make sure people on that list don't fly. The TSA role is FAR more than that. TSA is the public interface with the No Fly List. The TSC does not "use" the No Fly List. TSA uses it, and they (DHS) is where you go with any petitions to be removed from the list. You are correct in that they have no direct connection to the FBI/TSC database. This is why it is such a problem. There is no contextual data available to the TSA screeners; just names, or SIMILAR names. People have been placed on the No Fly Lists for reasons OTHER than involvement or suspected involvement in Terrorism. In bold: This is actually a well know problem , so I thought. One of the more known cases was Ted Kennedy, he had issues and griped about it in congress, supposedly took him 3 weeks to get his name removed, he appealed directly to Tom Ridge. The funny thing, is Tom Ridge and DHS had/has no power to remove anyone from the list. From the DHS site: Many people erroneously believe that they are experiencing a screening delay because they are on a watchlist. In fact, such delays are often caused merely by a name similarity to another person who is on the watchlist. Ninety-nine percent of individuals who apply for redress are not on the terrorist watchlist, but are misidentified as people who are. Think about that Orwellian nightmare. You cannot directly challenge the List or even access to see if you are on it. The agency responsible to employing the details of the List cannot challenge or even directly access the List, but they can incompetently and erroneously employ the list. Now picture yourself in a gun shop. and you are denied the right to buy a gun, and no one can tell you why. |
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Posted: 6/21/2016 10:49:04 AM EDT
[#39]
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If somebody is on the No Fly List, s/he wouldn't reach the checkpoint because they wouldn't have a boarding pass. Yes, the system isn't perfect. Nothing is perfect. However, there is a redress system for those people are on the No Fly List. I know of one guy that was put onto the No Fly List. He flies now because he went through the redress system. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Use google. The No Fly List is TSA. TSA doesn't decide who is on the No Fly List. TSC determines who is on that list. TSA's role is to make sure people on that list don't fly. The TSA role is FAR more than that. TSA is the public interface with the No Fly List. The TSC does not "use" the No Fly List. TSA uses it, and they (DHS) is where you go with any petitions to be removed from the list. You are correct in that they have no direct connection to the FBI/TSC database. This is why it is such a problem. There is no contextual data available to the TSA screeners; just names, or SIMILAR names. People have been placed on the No Fly Lists for reasons OTHER than involvement or suspected involvement in Terrorism. If somebody is on the No Fly List, s/he wouldn't reach the checkpoint because they wouldn't have a boarding pass. Yes, the system isn't perfect. Nothing is perfect. However, there is a redress system for those people are on the No Fly List. I know of one guy that was put onto the No Fly List. He flies now because he went through the redress system. My son was on the list (similar name to IRA terrorist). We were able to print our boarding passes, but we were stopped by the TSA. My wife was laughing, because I handed the diaper bag to the TSA Blue Shirt and told him, "good luck with the boy, he's very sneaky." The TSA made the decision on the spot to let us go through (because my son was 8 months old). This happened several times. Yes, there was a "redress" system that allowed us to challenge the stupidity of stopping a kid for having the most common name in Ireland. When the TSC provides the list to TSA/DHS, the list becomes arbitrary, because it is nothing more than names without context. We went through DHS, who then goes to TSC/FBI -if necessary. Now picture that happening in a gun shop. How do you challenge it? Through DHS? |
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Posted: 6/21/2016 10:54:37 AM EDT
[#40]
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The funny thing, is Tom Ridge and DHS had/has no power to remove anyone from the list. From the DHS site: Think about that Orwellian nightmare. You cannot directly challenge the List or even access to see if you are on it. The agency responsible to employing the details of the List cannot challenge or even directly access the List, but they can incompetently and erroneously employ the list. Now picture yourself in a gun shop. and you are denied the right to buy a gun, and no one can tell you why. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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In bold: This is actually a well know problem , so I thought. One of the more known cases was Ted Kennedy, he had issues and griped about it in congress, supposedly took him 3 weeks to get his name removed, he appealed directly to Tom Ridge. The funny thing, is Tom Ridge and DHS had/has no power to remove anyone from the list. From the DHS site: Many people erroneously believe that they are experiencing a screening delay because they are on a watchlist. In fact, such delays are often caused merely by a name similarity to another person who is on the watchlist. Ninety-nine percent of individuals who apply for redress are not on the terrorist watchlist, but are misidentified as people who are. Think about that Orwellian nightmare. You cannot directly challenge the List or even access to see if you are on it. The agency responsible to employing the details of the List cannot challenge or even directly access the List, but they can incompetently and erroneously employ the list. Now picture yourself in a gun shop. and you are denied the right to buy a gun, and no one can tell you why. Yea, that is the real suck, you're not on the list but a database thinks that you are 
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Posted: 6/21/2016 11:02:05 AM EDT
[#41]
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My son was on the list (similar name to IRA terrorist). We were able to print our boarding passes, but we were stopped by the TSA. My wife was laughing, because I handed the diaper bag to the TSA Blue Shirt and told him, "good luck with the boy, he's very sneaky." The TSA made the decision on the spot to let us go through (because my son was 8 months old). This happened several times. Yes, there was a "redress" system that allowed us to challenge the stupidity of stopping a kid for having the most common name in Ireland. When the TSC provides the list to TSA/DHS, the list becomes arbitrary, because it is nothing more than names without context. We went through DHS, who then goes to TSC/FBI -if necessary. Now picture that happening in a gun shop. How do you challenge it? Through DHS? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Use google. The No Fly List is TSA. TSA doesn't decide who is on the No Fly List. TSC determines who is on that list. TSA's role is to make sure people on that list don't fly. The TSA role is FAR more than that. TSA is the public interface with the No Fly List. The TSC does not "use" the No Fly List. TSA uses it, and they (DHS) is where you go with any petitions to be removed from the list. You are correct in that they have no direct connection to the FBI/TSC database. This is why it is such a problem. There is no contextual data available to the TSA screeners; just names, or SIMILAR names. People have been placed on the No Fly Lists for reasons OTHER than involvement or suspected involvement in Terrorism. If somebody is on the No Fly List, s/he wouldn't reach the checkpoint because they wouldn't have a boarding pass. Yes, the system isn't perfect. Nothing is perfect. However, there is a redress system for those people are on the No Fly List. I know of one guy that was put onto the No Fly List. He flies now because he went through the redress system. My son was on the list (similar name to IRA terrorist). We were able to print our boarding passes, but we were stopped by the TSA. My wife was laughing, because I handed the diaper bag to the TSA Blue Shirt and told him, "good luck with the boy, he's very sneaky." The TSA made the decision on the spot to let us go through (because my son was 8 months old). This happened several times. Yes, there was a "redress" system that allowed us to challenge the stupidity of stopping a kid for having the most common name in Ireland. When the TSC provides the list to TSA/DHS, the list becomes arbitrary, because it is nothing more than names without context. We went through DHS, who then goes to TSC/FBI -if necessary. Now picture that happening in a gun shop. How do you challenge it? Through DHS? I have a friend named John Brady who was on the no-fly list until 2014 because of an IRA member named John Brady. My friend John Brady is a USN vet who flew SAR in Vietnam. The IRA John Brady killed himself/was murdered by the police (depending on who you ask) while in custody at the Strand Road police station in Derry. In 2009. |
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Posted: 6/21/2016 11:10:01 AM EDT
[#42]
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My son was on the list (similar name to IRA terrorist). We were able to print our boarding passes, but we were stopped by the TSA. My wife was laughing, because I handed the diaper bag to the TSA Blue Shirt and told him, "good luck with the boy, he's very sneaky." The TSA made the decision on the spot to let us go through (because my son was 8 months old). This happened several times. Yes, there was a "redress" system that allowed us to challenge the stupidity of stopping a kid for having the most common name in Ireland. When the TSC provides the list to TSA/DHS, the list becomes arbitrary, because it is nothing more than names without context. We went through DHS, who then goes to TSC/FBI -if necessary. Now picture that happening in a gun shop. How do you challenge it? Through DHS? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Use google. The No Fly List is TSA. TSA doesn't decide who is on the No Fly List. TSC determines who is on that list. TSA's role is to make sure people on that list don't fly. The TSA role is FAR more than that. TSA is the public interface with the No Fly List. The TSC does not "use" the No Fly List. TSA uses it, and they (DHS) is where you go with any petitions to be removed from the list. You are correct in that they have no direct connection to the FBI/TSC database. This is why it is such a problem. There is no contextual data available to the TSA screeners; just names, or SIMILAR names. People have been placed on the No Fly Lists for reasons OTHER than involvement or suspected involvement in Terrorism. If somebody is on the No Fly List, s/he wouldn't reach the checkpoint because they wouldn't have a boarding pass. Yes, the system isn't perfect. Nothing is perfect. However, there is a redress system for those people are on the No Fly List. I know of one guy that was put onto the No Fly List. He flies now because he went through the redress system. My son was on the list (similar name to IRA terrorist). We were able to print our boarding passes, but we were stopped by the TSA. My wife was laughing, because I handed the diaper bag to the TSA Blue Shirt and told him, "good luck with the boy, he's very sneaky." The TSA made the decision on the spot to let us go through (because my son was 8 months old). This happened several times. Yes, there was a "redress" system that allowed us to challenge the stupidity of stopping a kid for having the most common name in Ireland. When the TSC provides the list to TSA/DHS, the list becomes arbitrary, because it is nothing more than names without context. We went through DHS, who then goes to TSC/FBI -if necessary. Now picture that happening in a gun shop. How do you challenge it? Through DHS? Are you talking about selectee status or No Fly? Selectee status allows you to fly; however, you have to go through specialized screening. As I said before, the system isn't perfect. When it originally rolled out, there were a lot of issues. There have been attempts to fix those issues. By the way, Feinstein just came out stating that less than 1,000 Americans are currently on the No Fly List. |
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Posted: 6/21/2016 11:13:55 AM EDT
[#43]
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Are you talking about selectee status or No Fly? Selectee status allows you to fly; however, you have to go through specialized screening. As I said before, the system isn't perfect. When it originally rolled out, there were a lot of issues. There have been attempts to fix those issues. By the way, Feinstein just came out stating that less than 1,000 Americans are currently on the No Fly List. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:
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TSA doesn't decide who is on the No Fly List. TSC determines who is on that list. TSA's role is to make sure people on that list don't fly. The TSA role is FAR more than that. TSA is the public interface with the No Fly List. The TSC does not "use" the No Fly List. TSA uses it, and they (DHS) is where you go with any petitions to be removed from the list. You are correct in that they have no direct connection to the FBI/TSC database. This is why it is such a problem. There is no contextual data available to the TSA screeners; just names, or SIMILAR names. People have been placed on the No Fly Lists for reasons OTHER than involvement or suspected involvement in Terrorism. If somebody is on the No Fly List, s/he wouldn't reach the checkpoint because they wouldn't have a boarding pass. Yes, the system isn't perfect. Nothing is perfect. However, there is a redress system for those people are on the No Fly List. I know of one guy that was put onto the No Fly List. He flies now because he went through the redress system. My son was on the list (similar name to IRA terrorist). We were able to print our boarding passes, but we were stopped by the TSA. My wife was laughing, because I handed the diaper bag to the TSA Blue Shirt and told him, "good luck with the boy, he's very sneaky." The TSA made the decision on the spot to let us go through (because my son was 8 months old). This happened several times. Yes, there was a "redress" system that allowed us to challenge the stupidity of stopping a kid for having the most common name in Ireland. When the TSC provides the list to TSA/DHS, the list becomes arbitrary, because it is nothing more than names without context. We went through DHS, who then goes to TSC/FBI -if necessary. Now picture that happening in a gun shop. How do you challenge it? Through DHS? Are you talking about selectee status or No Fly? Selectee status allows you to fly; however, you have to go through specialized screening. As I said before, the system isn't perfect. When it originally rolled out, there were a lot of issues. There have been attempts to fix those issues. By the way, Feinstein just came out stating that less than 1,000 Americans are currently on the No Fly List. 
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Posted: 6/21/2016 11:14:52 AM EDT
[#44]
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Are you talking about selectee status or No Fly? Selectee status allows you to fly; however, you have to go through specialized screening. As I said before, the system isn't perfect. When it originally rolled out, there were a lot of issues. There have been attempts to fix those issues. By the way, Feinstein just came out stating that less than 1,000 Americans are currently on the No Fly List. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
My son was on the list (similar name to IRA terrorist). We were able to print our boarding passes, but we were stopped by the TSA. My wife was laughing, because I handed the diaper bag to the TSA Blue Shirt and told him, "good luck with the boy, he's very sneaky." The TSA made the decision on the spot to let us go through (because my son was 8 months old). This happened several times. Yes, there was a "redress" system that allowed us to challenge the stupidity of stopping a kid for having the most common name in Ireland. When the TSC provides the list to TSA/DHS, the list becomes arbitrary, because it is nothing more than names without context. We went through DHS, who then goes to TSC/FBI -if necessary. Now picture that happening in a gun shop. How do you challenge it? Through DHS? Are you talking about selectee status or No Fly? Selectee status allows you to fly; however, you have to go through specialized screening. As I said before, the system isn't perfect. When it originally rolled out, there were a lot of issues. There have been attempts to fix those issues. By the way, Feinstein just came out stating that less than 1,000 Americans are currently on the No Fly List. Now multiply those 1,000 names by the thousands of people who have similar names. Now take that "imperfect" process to your local gun store. |
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Posted: 6/21/2016 11:35:54 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Now multiply those 1,000 names by the thousands of people who have similar names. Now take that "imperfect" process to your local gun store. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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My son was on the list (similar name to IRA terrorist). We were able to print our boarding passes, but we were stopped by the TSA. My wife was laughing, because I handed the diaper bag to the TSA Blue Shirt and told him, "good luck with the boy, he's very sneaky." The TSA made the decision on the spot to let us go through (because my son was 8 months old). This happened several times. Yes, there was a "redress" system that allowed us to challenge the stupidity of stopping a kid for having the most common name in Ireland. When the TSC provides the list to TSA/DHS, the list becomes arbitrary, because it is nothing more than names without context. We went through DHS, who then goes to TSC/FBI -if necessary. Now picture that happening in a gun shop. How do you challenge it? Through DHS? Are you talking about selectee status or No Fly? Selectee status allows you to fly; however, you have to go through specialized screening. As I said before, the system isn't perfect. When it originally rolled out, there were a lot of issues. There have been attempts to fix those issues. By the way, Feinstein just came out stating that less than 1,000 Americans are currently on the No Fly List. Now multiply those 1,000 names by the thousands of people who have similar names. Now take that "imperfect" process to your local gun store. Serious question: Is that not what is already in place with the NICS, if denied you're not told why
I have never had that issue so I am not sure. |
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