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Posted: 5/20/2003 12:46:39 PM EDT
[#1]
Do you always carry a loaded M4 in the passenger seat when you go to the dentist??? Your dentist must be pretty bad.
Oh well, good for you, I need to move to Texas... |
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Posted: 5/20/2003 12:53:17 PM EDT
[#2]
I usually carry a loaded M4 everywhere...
TS |
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Posted: 5/20/2003 12:54:11 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted: I usually carry a loaded M4 everywhere... TS Like I said, I need to move to TX... [;)] |
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Posted: 5/20/2003 12:58:27 PM EDT
[#4]
Did he go shooting with you?
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Posted: 5/20/2003 1:01:08 PM EDT
[#5]
From everything i've heard, it's legal to carry a loaded rifle/shotgun in plain view, whether on your person (i.e. walking down the street) or in your car, loaded. Now, that doesn't mean you don't get a free ride downtown...
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Posted: 5/20/2003 1:07:07 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted: From everything i've heard, it's legal to carry a loaded rifle/shotgun in plain view, whether on your person (i.e. walking down the street) or in your car, loaded. Now, that doesn't mean you don't get a free ride downtown... That is my understanding of the law. I got a free ride home for carrying one down the road/highway once. TS |
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Posted: 5/20/2003 1:12:02 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: Did he go shooting with you? No, but I would have invited him if he hadn't given me the ticket. [:D] TS |
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Posted: 5/20/2003 1:59:06 PM EDT
[#8]
are marines allowed to carry loaded M4's?
I am really progun but if I were a cop I would want to know what the f*ck you were doing with a loaded M4 in your front seat?? |
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Posted: 5/20/2003 2:00:10 PM EDT
[#9]
heres my take on it for whats its worth ..
a "longarm"=rifle = can not be loaded. a shotgun .. does not = rifle and can be loaded .. thats the way it was told to me one day many moons ago during a traffic stop.. to complicate thigs even more I "believe: < it was so long ago> that he mentioned it was a city ordanace for the city of Dallas. as far as open carry of a rifle or shotgun.. < not in car .. just walking down to the donut shop [:)]> I KNOW it CAN be done but I sure aint about to try it!.. |
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Posted: 5/20/2003 2:20:43 PM EDT
[#10]
Loaded or unloaded makes no difference. In Texas, assuming you can legally posess a firearm, you can carry a longarm(rifle or shotgun) loaded or unloaded in a vehicle.
The city ordinances do not make any difference because they are pre-empted by state law(except to the extent state law gives cities the right to prohibit possession in parks, etc.) So.... If the officer tells you the rifle is illegal because it's loaded.....B.S. |
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Posted: 5/20/2003 2:21:56 PM EDT
[#11]
TX law gives the definition of long guns (same as federal def) and states that "there is no restriction on long guns". City ordinances shouldn't matter. I believe that state law always supercedes city ordinances due to preemption.
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Posted: 5/20/2003 2:23:42 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: are marines allowed to carry loaded M4's? I am really progun but if I were a cop I would want to know what the f*ck you were doing with a loaded M4 in your front seat?? Because it would/will be more handy that way if I were to need it, as opposed to being unloaded in the backseat. |
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Posted: 5/20/2003 2:25:30 PM EDT
[#13]
Check out this latest thread for details on the TX penal code.
[url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=8&t=170092&w=myTopicPop[/url] BTW: long guns, includes rifles & shotguns, are legal to carry in TX according to the TX penal code. So are carrying openly, concealed, and/or recklessly the following: handguns, illegal knives, clubs, etc., when following certain guidelines, one of which includes traveling. [:D] [LOL] |
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Posted: 5/20/2003 2:27:36 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: [red] "You know it's illegal to carry it around like that (loaded, round in chamber)?"[/red] No sir. I take it he let you go, right? Therefore, he knew it was not illegal, otherwise he would have taken you in and you would have had to fight it in court. |
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Posted: 5/20/2003 2:30:14 PM EDT
[#15]
Texashark & bung,
That is how the law has been explained to me, prior to today. I think he was just ignorant (in the true meaning of the word: not having the knowledge) of Texas state law, and maybe because of the fact it was an evil black rifle. He also asked if I had any det cord or tannerite in the trunk. Thanks, TS |
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Posted: 5/20/2003 2:35:57 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: Quoted: [red] "You know it's illegal to carry it around like that (loaded, round in chamber)?"[/red] No sir. I take it he let you go, right? Therefore, he knew it was not illegal, otherwise he would have taken you in and you would have had to fight it in court. Houston or DFW, I would say yes. Local cops around here tend to "set you straight" and let you go. He did all the checks on me, saw I wasn't a criminal and let me go. I think me putting my hands up and outside the window kind of messed with his head. TS |
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Posted: 5/20/2003 2:38:09 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted: He also asked if I had any det cord or tannerite in the trunk. I hope you didn't answer this question-- its none of his business, even if they were illegal to posess, which they are not. |
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Posted: 5/20/2003 2:54:30 PM EDT
[#18]
Dentists usually make me think of my M4 too![BD]
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Posted: 5/20/2003 2:54:59 PM EDT
[#19]
Quoted: Quoted: He also asked if I had any det cord or tannerite in the trunk. I hope you didn't answer this question-- its none of his business, even if they were illegal to posess, which they are not. I did answer. No... He also asked me if I had current insurance. I said yes and he said ok. I shouldn't have label this thread "Cop!", I was mad that I got a ticket. He was actually pretty nice. TS |
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Posted: 5/20/2003 3:01:04 PM EDT
[#20]
LOL....I love this state.
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Posted: 5/20/2003 3:06:07 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted: LOL....I love this state. Can't beat it! |
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Posted: 5/20/2003 3:08:45 PM EDT
[#22]
Texas statutes don't differentiate whether a firearm is loaded or not, except concerning whether a firearm is accessible to a minor.
It is legal to carry a rifle or shotgun, loaded or not, anywhere in the state except: 1. School 2. Polling place on the day of election 3. Government court or offices used by the court 4. Racetrack 5. Secured area of an airport 6. Within 1000' of where an execution is going to take place that day. That is state law. I guess there could be local ordinances that are more restrictive. Believe it or not, it's legal to carry a loaded rifle or shotgun into a bar or liquor store. (The question was on a test in my criminal justice class last semester.) |
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Posted: 5/20/2003 3:14:51 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: I usually carry a loaded M4 everywhere... TS Cripes!! I thought [b]I[/b] was paranoid!!! I carry a mossberg 500 marine with pistol grip stock, and a Kimber pro-cdp... |
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Posted: 5/20/2003 3:15:31 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted: Quoted: He also asked if I had any det cord or tannerite in the trunk. I hope you didn't answer this question-- its none of his business, even if they were illegal to posess, which they are not. Do you think the outcome of this incident would have changed had he not answered the question? What grounds do you give the officer for not answering? |
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Posted: 5/20/2003 3:21:56 PM EDT
[#25]
Many years ago I was a LEO in the great state of Texas. I served as the Chief of Police in a small town toward the end of my LEO career. (A larger city eventually consolidated us and I was out of law enforcement.)
The small city had a city ordinance that made it illegal to "transport a loaded firearm in city limits". I told the mayor that the law was superceded by state law and was illegal. He was surprised and checked it out with the city attorney. He wasn't sure and checked with the state. It was finally removed from the city ordinances. It's wonderful to live in the greatest state in the country. |
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Posted: 5/20/2003 3:25:48 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: He also asked if I had any det cord or tannerite in the trunk. I hope you didn't answer this question-- its none of his business, even if they were illegal to posess, which they are not. Do you think the outcome of this incident would have changed had he not answered the question? What grounds do you give the officer for not answering? You don't have to have "grounds" for not answering. They have to have grounds for searching. You don't have to tell him anything, or say anything. |
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Posted: 5/20/2003 3:42:14 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: He also asked if I had any det cord or tannerite in the trunk. I hope you didn't answer this question-- its none of his business, even if they were illegal to posess, which they are not. Do you think the outcome of this incident would have changed had he not answered the question? What grounds do you give the officer for not answering? You don't have to have "grounds" for not answering. They have to have grounds for searching. You don't have to tell him anything, or say anything. I am curious because I dont have any experience with this. Dont you have to say NO you cant search my car? If you believe everything in your car is legal, why would you say no? |
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Posted: 5/20/2003 3:50:49 PM EDT
[#28]
I am curious because I dont have any experience with this. Dont you have to say NO you cant search my car? If you believe everything in your car is legal, why would you say no? This is a serious question. I, being an ex-LEO have given this much thought. I know that the Constitution gives me the right to be free from unreasonable searches. And if a policeman asks me, "Do you have any dope in your trunk? Do you mind if I look?" I have the right to refuse the search. What would I do? If I say "You don't have probable cause to search my car." He will just call for the drug sniffing dog to be brought over. It will take some time and be a bother. I know that I do not haul drugs. Why should I let him search my car? It is a question of convenience. How much time do I want to waste with this? If I let him search, I will be free to go about my business sooner. But what about my rights as a free man under the Constitution? It's a hard question. |
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Posted: 5/20/2003 4:06:17 PM EDT
[#29]
If the cop has a reason to search, he would not bother asking you, and your ass would already be in 'cuffs.
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Posted: 5/20/2003 4:10:44 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: I am curious because I dont have any experience with this. Dont you have to say NO you cant search my car? If you believe everything in your car is legal, why would you say no? This is a serious question. I, being an ex-LEO have given this much thought. I know that the Constitution gives me the right to be free from unreasonable searches. And if a policeman asks me, "Do you have any dope in your trunk? Do you mind if I look?" I have the right to refuse the search. What would I do? If I say "You don't have probable cause to search my car." He will just call for the drug sniffing dog to be brought over. It will take some time and be a bother. I know that I do not haul drugs. Why should I let him search my car? It is a question of convenience. How much time do I want to waste with this? If I let him search, I will be free to go about my business sooner. But what about my rights as a free man under the Constitution? It's a hard question. Exactly. I see people saying "dont let them search" all the time. I really can not see any situation where I would say no. Even if I am doing something wrong, its not like the officer is going to say "OH...sorry to have bothered you sir...you can go now". |
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Posted: 5/20/2003 4:22:37 PM EDT
[#31]
It always fascinates me, dave223, how criminals answer this question. I live near the city of Beaumont, Texas, Interstate 10 runs through Beaumont and there is a lot of drug traffic. When the officers (according to the newspaper) ask for permission to search vehicles, they usually get permission from the drivers.
I guess the bad guys think if they say, "Sure, I got nothing to hide", the cops will just let them go. Not much chance. And the LEOs have seen it all. They always find the dope. One guy had even hollowed out his battery in his car and put a motorcycle battery in the line to run the car. He then filled the hollowed-out car battery with dope. The dogs didn't have any problem finding it. I'm sure they use the "evil" profiling method to identify the dopers. |
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Posted: 5/20/2003 4:33:24 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted: Quoted: LOL....I love this state. Can't beat it! Hmmm, IMO it ain't all that great! You cant even have a loaded handgun in your car. Even if you have a CCW you cant have it on the seat. Texas is actually quite strict on what you can and cant do with a fire arm. I prefer Nevada any day. |
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Posted: 5/20/2003 4:41:03 PM EDT
[#33]
LOL...I guess I will just continue to try and keep all my activity between the white lines.
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Posted: 5/20/2003 5:45:55 PM EDT
[#34]
As someone who notices that we have an unbelievable car burglary problem, I really hope you are not leaving that M4 in the car, even just to go into the dentist.
The majority of our car smash and grabs happen during the business day in parking lots, for items as minor as a CD on the seat. We have seen as many as 31 in one parking lot. I don't leave ANYTHING in my car. Not even a day planner. Some asshole will smash your window just to take a look under the seats for as little a reason as a NRA sticker. |
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Posted: 5/20/2003 6:01:31 PM EDT
[#35]
Wow good thing you weren't wearing MARPAT...[BD]
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Posted: 5/20/2003 6:32:51 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted: Hmmm, IMO it ain't all that great! You cant even have a loaded handgun in your car. Please provide a link & quote to TX law that states you cannot have a loaded weapon, specifically a handgun in this case, in your vehicle, or on your person, without a CCW. ...? |
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Posted: 5/20/2003 6:36:20 PM EDT
[#37]
I would never in my wildest dreams ever see a reason nor consider carrying a loaded M4 in my vehicle with me.
I stick with HBars. |
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Posted: 5/20/2003 6:55:13 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted: Texashark & bung, Thanks, TS Seriously? I would believe that he ask for BP or flash power if he was on a explosive kick. Det cord and Tannerite??? How come you did include that interesting and comment worthy communique in your original post? |
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Posted: 5/20/2003 7:14:29 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted: Quoted: Texashark & bung, Thanks, TS Seriously? I would believe that he ask for BP or flash power if he was on a explosive kick. Det cord and Tannerite??? How come you did include that interesting and comment worthy communique in your original post? I was pissed about the ticket and unsure about the law. The end of the stop went like this; "Do you have current insurance?" Yes, sir,it's in the glove box. "O.K., uh you don't have any det cord or tannerite in there, do you?" No, sir. "Sign this, here." He hands me his pen. I sign. He gives me my copy of the ticket. "You have to see the judge by June 2nd." O.K. sir "Get that inspection done." Yes, sir, thanks. TS BTW Painless, you're in my neck of the woods, or close. |
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Posted: 5/20/2003 7:34:03 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted: Quoted: Hmmm, IMO it ain't all that great! You cant even have a loaded handgun in your car. Please provide a link & quote to TX law that states you cannot have a loaded weapon, specifically a handgun in this case, in your vehicle, or on your person, without a CCW. ...? [url]http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/pe/pe0004600.html#pe002.46.02[/url] § 46.02. Unlawful Carrying Weapons (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his person a handgun, illegal knife, or club. (b) Except as provided by Subsection (c), an offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor. (c) An offense under this section is a felony of the third degree if the offense is committed on any premises licensed or issued a permit by this state for the sale of alcoholic beverages. Case law in Texas has held, repeatedly, that a handgun in the passenger compartment of a vehicle (within "lunging distance") constitutes "on or about" your person. |
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Posted: 5/20/2003 7:49:01 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted: Quoted: Hmmm, IMO it ain't all that great! You cant even have a loaded handgun in your car. Please provide a link & quote to TX law that states you cannot have a loaded weapon, specifically a handgun in this case, in your vehicle, or on your person, without a CCW. ...? Q: If my handgun is on the seat beside me, am I still considered to be "carrying?" A: Yes. The statute refers to carrying a gun "on or about" your person. Texas courts generally have considered this to include any gun within your reach, including one stored in your glove compartment. More Q&A at... [url]www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/faq.htm [/url] SSD |
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Posted: 5/20/2003 7:50:22 PM EDT
[#42]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Hmmm, IMO it ain't all that great! You cant even have a loaded handgun in your car. Please provide a link & quote to TX law that states you cannot have a loaded weapon, specifically a handgun in this case, in your vehicle, or on your person, without a CCW. ...? [url]http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statutes/pe/pe0004600.html#pe002.46.02[/url] § 46.02. Unlawful Carrying Weapons (a) A person commits an offense if he intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries on or about his person a handgun, illegal knife, or club. (b) Except as provided by Subsection (c), an offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor. (c) An offense under this section is a felony of the third degree if the offense is committed on any premises licensed or issued a permit by this state for the sale of alcoholic beverages. Case law in Texas has held, repeatedly, that a handgun in the passenger compartment of a vehicle (within "lunging distance") constitutes "on or about" your person. So... since case law and the Penal code does not mention being loaded, it is assumed that the handgun, unloaded or loaded, if within lunging distance, is illegal? [b][red]Not completely true, but its really good advice to avoid a pickle...[/red][/b] Example: I know for a fact, if traveling (or if you fit any of the criteria in TX Penal Code 46.15 Nonapplicability, which applies to 46.02), you can have a handgun in open view (or even concealed), i.e. on your dash, unloaded or loaded (not that it matters, but it helps in your defense if needed), and you are completely within your rights. It does not pertain to long guns or shot guns, muzzle loaders, black powder, etc. |
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Posted: 5/20/2003 8:11:06 PM EDT
[#43]
[url]http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/faq.htm[/url]
Q: What does concealed mean? Can't I carry my handgun in plain view? [red]A: No. The weapon can't be visible,[/red] and its presence can't be discernible through ordinary observation. Q: If my handgun is on the seat beside me, [red]am I still considered to be "carrying?".[/red] A: [blue]Yes[/blue] The statute refers to carrying a gun "on or about" your person. Texas courts generally have considered this to include any gun within your reach, including one stored in your glove compartment. So it would seem to me that if its on your seat [b]you are considered to be carrying[/b] and it is [b]now visible[/b]. A clear violation according to the above quotes. |
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Posted: 5/20/2003 8:17:22 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: Check out this latest thread for details on the TX penal code. [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=8&t=170092&w=myTopicPop[/url] BTW: long guns, includes rifles & shotguns, are legal to carry in TX according to the TX penal code. So are carrying openly, concealed, and/or recklessly the following: handguns, illegal knives, clubs, etc., when following certain guidelines, one of which includes traveling. [:D] [LOL] Damn.. I really hate it when people bring up the fact that Tx penal code overrides city ordances.. why .. cause it wll not keep you enjoying the city of Dallas thru the back seat if the officer is a prick.. you will have to defend your self and that costs money. Im sure in Dallas < and yes.. I admit I dont personally know of any cases> the loaded rifle isue has gone to court and the Tx penal code defense is brought up and the guy walks.. but again it will cost you money.. what happens if you dont have the money for an attorney..? Im assuming the DA will talk you into plea bargining to something less.. even if you are the next guy in the court for the same issue and win.. the city ordance will stay and continue to cost people money.. But what Can I expect from the city thats recently made it illegal to smoke in resturants. :) as far as being able to carry a "club" .. I was once made to leave a stick with tape on the end of on the side of the road because it was an " illegal club" this was "travling" from Larado to Dallas and stoped by DPS for speeding..< while I was.. but the road was so open.. so clear.. I felt like I was standing still doing 7o :) > I didnt agrue and just tossed the stick/"club" cause he wasnt buying my "travling" defense .. and it wasnt worth the fight. < this happened over 8 years ago so no,, i dont have a name and badge # > after all this babling I missed the answer .. so CAN you carry a loaded rifle and a broom stick with tape on it? and I mean this in the "real" world not the world where evrything is perfect and the cop knows all the laws / has no personal agenda < like sherrif jenne :) > and will let you shot his gun if you say pls :) disclaimer: I have been stopped MANY/many/MANY times in this great state.. and I can only recall 2 that where pricks.. :) |
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Posted: 5/20/2003 8:23:38 PM EDT
[#45]
Quoted: [url]http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/faq.htm[/url] Q: What does concealed mean? Can't I carry my handgun in plain view? [red]A: No. The weapon can't be visible,[/red] and its presence can't be discernible through ordinary observation. Q: If my handgun is on the seat beside me, [red]am I still considered to be "carrying?".[/red] A: [blue]Yes[/blue] The statute refers to carrying a gun "on or about" your person. Texas courts generally have considered this to include any gun within your reach, including one stored in your glove compartment. So it would seem to me that if its on your seat [b]you are considered to be carrying[/b] and it is [b]now visible[/b]. A clear violation according to the above quotes. Unless your traveling... at 65mph |
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Posted: 5/20/2003 10:49:44 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted: Quoted: [url]http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/faq.htm[/url] Q: What does concealed mean? Can't I carry my handgun in plain view? [red]A: No. The weapon can't be visible,[/red] and its presence can't be discernible through ordinary observation. Q: If my handgun is on the seat beside me, [red]am I still considered to be "carrying?".[/red] A: [blue]Yes[/blue] The statute refers to carrying a gun "on or about" your person. Texas courts generally have considered this to include any gun within your reach, including one stored in your glove compartment. So it would seem to me that if its on your seat [b]you are considered to be carrying[/b] and it is [b]now visible[/b]. A clear violation according to the above quotes. Unless your traveling... at 65mph Actually, I believe the law is a "bonafide traveller(sp?). This means luggage, a hotel reservation, Dad Mom and kids singing "99 bottles of beer" etc. TS |
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Posted: 5/21/2003 3:12:33 AM EDT
[#47]
Travelling is basically defined by case law. It is generally held to be a trip over more than two county lines with an overnight stay involved. It is pretty subjective, and what one County Attorney will take for the travelling exception will be completely different from another. I recently had a case where I was involved in where the CA used the travelling exception on a person who was moving out of town, but wasn't actually in the process of moving at the time, and was loaded up with several firearms and drugs and was smoking dope in front of some officers who were in the area looking for burglars, and stopped at the Quick-e-Mart to get some coffee. All of the weapons charges were dropped.
With the relative ease of getting a CHL in Texas, you really shouldn't even bother with the potential hassle of the Travelling exception, and just get a CHL. Carrying a loaded long gun is fine, though, according to some board members, it might be wise to keep it out of plain view in the Metroplex. I'll add that back in my college days, before I was a cop and before the CHL laws got passed, I carried a loaded .30 carbine in the car while delivering pizzas at night in the ghetto. It was a violation of company policy, but the company wasn't there to keep me from getting jacked by bums and gang members, and the managers quietly encouraged it. It was also totally legal. |
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Posted: 5/21/2003 4:15:09 AM EDT
[#48]
Quoted: With the relative ease of getting a CHL in Texas, you really shouldn't even bother with the potential hassle of the Travelling exception, and just get a CHL. This seems to be the standard answer. This is obviously the wrong method since it justifies the fact that they can get away with [b]fucking you up the ass and wiping it off with the US Constitution!!![/b] |
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Posted: 5/21/2003 4:19:29 AM EDT
[#49]
One other thing regarding Texas law...
As natez and others have stated, you can carry while traveling. But it is listed as "a defense to prosecution" that you were traveling. That means, you will probably be arrested and taken to jail and have to make bond. You can then hire an evil lawyer who will offer as "a defense to prosecution" that you were traveling. Best solution, just get a concealed carry license. It cuts out all the expense and hassle. It also speeds up firearm purchases. |
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Posted: 5/21/2003 4:25:50 AM EDT
[#50]
Yes and No.
I know what the defense to prosectution means. BUT there is [b]clear language within the law[/b] beyond that so it no longer is just a defense. Why should I have to pay $$$ to go to court, etc (ie: harassed by the cops) knowing that I would be cleared - just because the law says it is a "defense to prosecution"? |
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