NJ 1990 AWB coming back to haunt police officers.

[url]http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/jersey/index.ssf?/base/news-3/105341122543220.xml [/url]

CRC

The law in NJ specifically states that Police Offices are exempt "at all times while in the State of New Jersey" 2C:39-6(7)(a).


Mike

As a former resident of the Bernardsville/Far Hills/Gladstone area - as offensive as it may be, I'm sort of glad to see one of those pain-in-the-ass NJ LEOs get a little taste of their own medicine.  I lived in Bernardsville when the NJ AWB was passed....B'ville PD were MAJOR PRICKS about guns before the AWB, I can only imagine what they've been like since.

I'm no longer in the reach of [s]Fuhrer[/s]Chief Sciaretta, thank the good Lord.

Well that's just total BS...

No slam on cops, but other than issued or department approved weapons, why the hell should they be exempt from a ban on personal weapons that affects the rest of the public???

[b]World War II-era M-1 carbine assault rifle[/b]

I highly doubt he was using this rifle for offical police business.  As long as the law is different for LEOs then it is for citizens there will always be hatred and mistrust between the two.

Now only if we can get the cops to obey traffic laws I would be even happier.  But we all know that ain't going to happen now don't we.


Cops need to stop thinking that they are better then us and start to "Serve & Protect" like they are paid to do.

Sgtar15

PS  I am not saying this applies to all LEOs but it deffinitely is the message they are given by the higher ups.

Well tough shitsky. Equal protection under the law. Applies to cops, criminals and joe citizen. Cops are nothing more than citizens with a duty to protect and serve. They can have assualt weapons during & for performing their duties. When they are off the clock, no guns for them. That's the way it should be and I hope for the sake of the law only, the cop gets convicted. Then maybe the police union will get behind the citizen & work on changing the law. Giving cops special privleges simply creates a special class of citizen that is above the law which is unconstitutional.

I hope they convict his ass!!!

The law shouldn't be any different for cops than it is for every other citizen. If the assholes in N.J. allowed that bullshit law to pass than EVERYONE should pay the price until it gets changed. It should start with any gun collections owned by politicians and then move on to police personnel and finally everyone else.

An officer's duty weapon would not fall into the banned category.

Why the heck is an M1 carbine an assault weapon?  The law is just so stupid I want to scream.

WHY DO COPS WANT TO KILL PEOPLE?!

That's the question that we should be asking the antis. I thought that cops only carried guns in order to defend themselves and others. As we all know, the antis claim that assault weapons are not needed for self defence. According to them, their only purpose is to kill people. At this time, I don't think that cops should kill people unless they're defending something.

Ha, the PBA can suck it for all I care. Bunch of frickin commies. This guy must be some kind of asshole for his chums to charge him with this tripe anyway.

Detachable mag, bayo lug, flash hider, possible folding stock...

I see the disrespectful civilians are coming out from under the rocks again.

Just some more evidence of institutionalized double standards perpetuated by JBT's charading as Peace Officers.



Just like crocodilians, they feed on the weak even if it is their own breed.  The peace Officers need to remove the JBT's from their midst, for the time is fast approaching where the thin blue line will be judged as a whole, instead of as individuals....

Moose may be a stand up guy.  But he cast his lot with evil.  I hope he receives the full penalty of law for the crimes he has commited.

Leo should have gotten a preban assult dog and there never would be a problem.[;)]

Sgtar15

I don't blame the cops for not obeying the traffic laws when off duty ,think about it ,how many of us would speed and do all the other shit they do if we couldn't get a ticket?

He should be bound to the same laws as the rest of us. No exemption for off-duty possession should be granted.

How else are they gonna get their support for the laws?? This shit happens all the time. Congress exempts THEMSELVES from a lot of shit they pass.....
Our nation is FULL of folks who say "Go fuck the other guy". What do you think all the tax shit is about. "Go tax the other guy"... Americans will fuck each other at the drop of a hat....

Doesn't the simple fact that LEO's can have assault weapons and other stuff we can't while on duty make them above the law?  I know this is about a personal weapon but f@#! man it's bulls@#! either way you look at it if they can posses things we can't just because they have a badge.  Then again what do I know.  I'm just a stupid citizen who transforms into a school/office/cop killer the second I pick up an "assault weapon".

why did he turn in a legally questionable weapon?

they make cops turn in their weapons what a load of crap, I would never turn in all my weapons.

Is this supposed to mean that civilian authorities are somehow imbued with more rights than mere mortals?

If so, I disagree.  Non-Federal LEOs [b]ARE[/b] civilians and should not have any more legal access to equipment than us serfs, peons and mere mortals.

Governess Whitmann was stupid for signing that ban, no doubt.  

I think it is a flawed idea assert that an on-duty LEO may be a super-citizen and is a mere mortal (like the rest of us) while off duty.

Mike45, I don't know how much you know about NJ..but if you had one, they KNEW where it was, and gave you a certain number of days to get it out of the state or destroy it.  If you did none of those things, they'd come and get it.

Whitman didn't do it..it was Jim 'Fuckface' Florio.

Are you saying - if an LEO is issued an LEO only AR-15, then he should have to leave it at work when he is "off-duty"?
I know this guy had an M1 - but just trying to clarify your statement.
Personally, I just bought a postban to avoid the hassle.
CR

[b]Zzzzzzzzing![/b]

"Ooooh and [b]sgtar15[/b] came storming out of the corner with a hard kick right to the groin!" [nuts]

"Yeah Stu, and that thumb to the eye on the way down let him know he really means business!" [stick]




I think the term you're looking for is "uppity".




You're welcome. [:)]

Now I'm going to look it up.  While I lived there buddy and former co-worker who is a NJ resident told me it was CTW.  

Damn.  Never trust anything anyone says ever!

The important thing here to remember is [b]AT LEAST ALL THE POLICE OFFICERS MADE IT HOME SAFE THAT NIGHT[/b]

I agree off the clock he is subject to the same laws everyone else is. But everyone here will agree this is a bullshit law and if this guy was joe citizen everyone here would be backing him, saying how fucked up the law is, but it seems like some people want to see this man go to prison not for possessing an illegal weapon, but for being a cop. Obviously this law isn't hitting the people it was ment for(criminals), but is fucking a guy who is not. I hope he gets off. Not because he's a cop but because it will be shown how inefective this law is at targeting the criminals and how it's just plain bullshit and maybe set some kind of precedent for average citizens.  

Calif also has the AW exemption for current and retire LE personel. The original writers of the law put that in the law to get support from  law enforcement. Some LE are not going to be in that profession forever, and when they leave...

here is how fvcked up NJ is. you cant have a M1 Carbine, but you can own a post-ban M60E3, just keep the belt to 15rds. (my two friends have them and they live in the Belleville, North Arlingtion area)

New Jersey Sucks, Period.

The point is the cop is exempt and charging him under the law is BS!


We all know the NJ AWB is BS and now maybe cops will realize it too.

CRC

I’ve been an LEO in NJ since 1983. I did my advanced writing requirement in law school on the NJ AWB. The law, IMHO, is total BS.

Notwithstanding, here are my observations of what happened when the law was passed. The State PBA cut a deal with Governor Florio (he signed the ban not Whitman) that if LEOs were exempted from the ban they (the PBA) would support it. I did not support the PBAs decision then or now. The PBA President that cut the deal recently plead guilty to Federal corruption charges.

A few more points:

No post ban M60E3s. Belts, or links, are considered high capacity feeding devices and are prohibited under the AWB just like magazines that accept more than fifteen (15) rounds. The newspapers in Morris County reported such a case.

N.J.S.A. 2C:29-3 (j) prohibits possession of high capacity feeding devices. I cannot find an exemption for LEOs. Does this mean any NJ LEO, while on duty, who possesses a thirty (30) round AR mag is committing a 4th degree crime?

The law is vague, convoluted and unreasonable. But this is NJ. Business as usual. [:(]

Mike

You know what's sad?  The average Gino or Donna on the street in NJ/NY is such an angry asshole compared to your average Midwesterner, I can half-understand why some deluded legislators would think keeping guns away from them is a solution to what ails them.  I've never seen so much bad attitude in one place ANYWHERE else...and I lived in a pretty damn nice area of New Jersey.

At the time the ban was passed it was a total Demcrat state. The people had no say in it. I was in the academy and the director, who was acop's cop, asked us to be professional when DelTufo spoke,especially as I was getting an award.
THey were very paniccky over many o9f us that thought hte law was BS. YOu must remember that the rank and file, decentcop is not hte one who backs the AWB. Itis the politically correct, high ranking leaderr that does.....
SO you know the Presoident of the PBA, Frank Genneso, was indicted for embezelment. ANd the we do not want to go on about the NJ FOP.
Most departments are closed shopsnad you have to join.
We do have a case iin front of the Prosecuter, that they can not go after a cop that did a domestic surrender and had Hi cap magazines, as he is exempt form the law the way it is written.
You guys can bitch about JBTs all you want, most of us are not...we are just like you except in our job, we are ready to put ourselves betweenyou and harms way!

I would like to take this opportunity to give my opinion of the NJ State Police uniforms... they look like ----ing NAZIS!!!  How can they wear that crap?  

OK, I am finished.

Is that a fact!?  So when are you and the rest of the non-JBT's going to arrest the criminals you work for and with?  Because I've gotta tell ya, I've got alot more to fear from the Law Enforcement community and the politicians then I have to fear from ANY drug dealer, street gang, nightstalker, or Wise Guy.  I'm not BS'n in any when I say that, and you know it.

Talk is cheap, and we have heard it before.  

Judge dismisses assault-rifle indictment

Wednesday, May 21, 2003


BY MATTHEW J. DOWLING
Star-Ledger Staff
New Jersey's assault firearms ban provides a broad exemption for municipal police officers to possess such weapons, a Superior Court judge ruled yesterday in dismissing an indictment charging a former Far Hills police sergeant with violating the 1990 law.

Judge Edward Coleman, sitting in Somerville, said former Sgt. Kenneth Moose did not violate state law by keeping an M-1 Carbine assault rifle at his Peapack home, though the weapon did not relate to Moose's police duties.

"In reading the statute, it is clear that a law enforcement officer is permitted to possess assault firearms," Coleman said. "He's exempt. I grant the application to dismiss the indictment."

The New Jersey State Policemen's Benevolent Association, the state's largest police union, lauded the ruling as a protection of the rights of its 33,000 members who long understood the exemption to apply to all assault weapons. The PBA intervened in the case to assist in Moose's defense.

"I'm pleased with the decision," said Robert Fagella, the PBA attorney. "I think the court simply applied the statutes."

Assistant Somerset County Prosecutor Matthew Murphy told Coleman he would have to consult with his office to determine if an appeal would be filed.

Moose, who resigned from the Far Hills Police Department in December after 14 years on the force, said the ruling allows him to move forward with his life without a looming criminal prosecution.

"I'm just glad that hopefully this is over," said Moose, 39. "Today, résumés are going in the mail. I have a daughter to provide for."

The charges against Moose stemmed from his suspension from the Far Hills Police Department pending a psychiatric examination to determine his fitness for duty in August. Though he was cleared to return to work a week later, the suspension required him to turn in all his weapons.

Among the weapons was the M- 1 Carbine, a World War II-era assault rifle Moose had been given in 1990 as a gift from a local resident after her husband died. Moose said he fired the assault rifle once at a shooting range shortly after he got it. Since then, the weapon had been stored in his house unregistered and unlicensed.

Somerset County authorities filed charges against Moose in October after determining that the M- 1 Carbine was functional and among the weapons explicitly banned in the 1990 assault firearms law.

Murphy argued unsuccessfully that the statute regarding the exemption for law enforcement required a strict interpretation that it is illegal for police officers to possess assault firearms unrelated to their official police duties.

"There is no nexus to law enforcement for this weapon," Murphy said. "This is purely private possession of an unregulated weapon nobody knew existed."

But Coleman pointed out that the exemptions for certain types of law enforcement, such as corrections officers, prosecutor's detectives and arson investigators, were specific that assault weapons would only be permitted if they pertained to their officials duties.

He also noted a distinction between allowing police officers to possess assault weapons and their ability to use and carry the firearms, which would be illegal without registration and training certifications.

While Coleman questioned the wisdom of the way the statute was written, he said municipal police officers had no such limitation spelled out in the exemption.

"I don't pretend to understand it," Coleman said. "If this is not what the Legislature intended, clearly they have the opportunity to clarify the statute."

Bruce Goodman, the attorney for Moose, argued that the assault firearms ban was written with a clear intent to provide law enforcement with the exemption. He pointed out that in the 13 years the law has been on the books, two criminal prosecutions have been brought against police officers for illegal assault weapons -- one of which was his client.

The other case in Atlantic County also is recent. A judge there ruled last week not to dismiss an indictment against the police officer, though the transcript of the hearing showed some uncertainty by the court on how to interpret the statute.



Matthew J. Dowling covers Somerset County courts and can be reached at (908) 429-9925.

Unfortunately this matter needs an appellate decision to settle it once and for all.

Mike

Ditto what DPREACHER said !!!! Your 100% correct!!

That explains a lot...

Reminds me of a Discovery Channel (or TLC?) program I watched once about the LAPD.  They were following around these two blonde surfer-boy looking twins who were both cops (and both seemed slightly gay to me).

One of the gay twins was responding to a call about the old man's house, I think no one had heard from him in a while.  First thing they did was joke about all of the NRA and pro-gun stickers on the guy's truck, commenting on how the guy must be a 'wacko gun nut,' or something similar.  They get into the house, and the old man was very dead (natural causes).  They proceed to laugh about the 'horrible stench', and made fun of how the guy died without anyone noticing, etc...  Very unprofessional, and downright disgusting that they would say this shit knowing it would be televised.  I hope the guy's family sued the dept.

Well, guess what?  The guy had a lot of guns.  I think they were all legal, since no AW violations were mentioned.  Besides most of it looked like C&R stuff, probably not all of the collection was even functional.  So of course they went on about how "civilians shouldn't own this type of hardware. blah blah blah..."  The way these cops spouted off, you'd think they were on the HCI payroll...

Well if that's not disgusting enough, the next scene with the gay twins is at a rifle range, and they're blasting away with their personally owned 'assault' rifles.  One of the gay twins had a FAL, I can't remember what else perhaps an AR, but all their rifles were of the evil child-killing 'assault' variant.

That show pissed me off more than you can imagine.



So are all cops 'bad'???  Absolutely not!  Most do a great job and they are doing it for the right reasons.

But the few that think they are above the law (see above) really ruin it for the good guys...  

And I'm all for LE being issued the proper gear to handle their jobs.  And if the means they need 'assault' rifles or MGs to do the duty, so be it.

BUT if the laws of that state/city/county DO NOT allow a private citizen to own and store that variant of rifle or MG in his own house or vehicle, then that issued rifle/MG should be checked in to the PD at the end of the shift.

There is no reason that a LE officer needs to have a MG or assault rifle in his house, IF a private citizen can't do the same.  He will just have to make due with what the rest of us civilians have at our disposal for home defense.

There is absolutely NO reason that a LE officer should be allowed to personally own a 'assault' rifle or MG if that same variant is not allowed for civilians.  Especially after retirement!  Why, did they earn the privilage to be above the law?  What's next, you can possess illegal narcotics or cheat on your taxes as long as you are LE or retired LE???

Again this is not a LE bash, this is just common sense.  I think anyone, LE or not, should be able to keep whatever rifle they wish, BUT any restriction placed on civilians regarding personal arms, should also apply to off duty LE, since they are also civilians.

And regarding this statement:


Yes, and I commend you on that!  However, if the law allowed ME to CCW, I would be willing to put MYSELF in harms way to protect you or any other civilian!  Hopefully that day would never come, but I would be willing to do so, if I was given the right to protect myself in this state.  And no, I'm not a 'Rambo', I'd do it because it's the right thing to do.

And that argument is very weak on a gun board, because 90% of the folks here are perfectly capable of protecting themselves and their families.  So we would not WANT your help.  I don't mean any offense by that, I mean to say that if the police needed to respond to my house to protect me, that means I was in some deep doo-doo, and am probably dead...  Again, I'm not some kind of tough guy, but I'm not going to wait for the police to respond, I will try to protect myself first and foremost because that's my job, and if I fail, that's when you have to do your job.

Well said....

The dead guy was a WW2 Veteran. In the first broadcast one of the jbt's made some comment saying the guy must be a domestic terrorist, which was edited out in the subsequent showings. There was also a scene where one of the wonder twins found a pristine looking Mauser in the guy's collection and gleefully said "THIS ONE IS GOING INTO MY COLLECTION."

If the LEO is required to maintain the rifle himself and is on call 24/7, then I don't see the problem with him keeping his patrol rifle at home.
Otherwise I agree - just the duty weapon, no OTHER banned weapons.
CR

If I get any more pissed then I am right now I am going to fund a law suit against this nazi state myself, I think all LEO's should have all the hardware they need when thay are working,PERIOD!

When they go home there is no reason they should be allowed to own a rifle that would put me in jail for having the same damn one,this is not eqaul protection under the law and it is elitism at the very least.

To exempt LEO's from the illegal law that I have to follow is creating a class of citizen that is now ablove the law.

[size=5][red]This fucking double standard is way over the God damned line![/red][/size=5]

Sucks that all these police unions repeatedly make all kinds of deals with various political groups.  Like someone should give a fuck if the police support the AWB.  

There is lots of HATE in this room, and you wonder why NJ can't get their act together, there is too much seperatiuon and the demopcraps rule....