So, I ride a Harley now, but I am really just a total motorcycle fanatic.  I am intrigued by crotch rockets, I have just always thought that:
1) I'd kill myself.  I ride my Sporty "crazy" enough.  I don't know what I'd do with any "real" performance.
2) The insurance would break me.

So, tell me what you know about the 600cc crotch rockets.  Which ones are good, which ones are shit, what's the insurance like, anything.  I like the look of the GSXR600, but don't know squat about the performance.
It also appears to me that thes things depreciate like crazy.  Bikes a year old are going for waaaay less than the new ones.  This doesn't happen with Harleys, so I'm not used to that, but it would appear that used is the way to go.

The reason I'd steer away from a used one is that they are usually ridden by teenage boys who are interested in showing off -- which means that they ride 'em hard and put 'em away wet. And many don't give a damn about upkeep. It'd be like buying a rental car. Buyer beware!

I'd love to have a new one though. But it'd come after I bought my Harley, my Beamer, my Ducati, my Valkyrie, my...

Heh. Have you ridden a modern sportbike yet? If not, it will be like stepping onto a different planet. Razor sharp braking, handling, and throttle response. Twitchy. Wheelies and stoppies. Tires spinning on hard corner exits.

Be very careful. Take it easy.

What you really need to do is buy my 1995 GSXR1100 that is set up for sport-touring.

[img]http://mywebpages.comcast.net/emoto1/camp1.gif[/img]

[:D]

Insurance varies wildly. Call your agent. All of the major brands are fine and will exceed your abilities (no offense - you have to be a top racer to be able to get the most out of them. Really.) so pick the one that floats your boat. Be prepared to be folded up like a pretzel.

Try to find one adult-owned, and have a good shop check it over, especially the tranny, as there are lots of gear jammers out there...

I too have considered a sport bike as a play ride.  One thing to consider is the riding position.  On some models it's more aggressive than on others.  I don't bend like I used to, so I'd be inclined for something a little more upright & relaxed.  Likewise, 600s have smaller frames, so you'd want to find a bike that fits you.

For most riding that's done, I'd say 600-750 cc's is enough.  IMHO, the vast majority of people riding 1000 cc & up sport bikes are way overbiked.  That is, the capabilities of the machine far exceed their abilities as riders.

With that said, the Yamaha FZ1300 sport-tourer is slick.  Also, I've looked at the Kawasaki Councours.  These are not pure sport bikes, but they are reasonably comfortable and capable of playing on the twisties.

If you like V-twins there are the Buells and Honda Super Hawks.  Lots of bottom end.

As a motorcycle safety instructor, I'd advise anyone to take their time getting used to a new bike, especially with such a jump in performance.  A significant number of riders involved in accidents have years of riding experience, but less than 5 or 6 months on their "accident bike."

Have fun.

They quit making "crotch-rockets" in 1992, they were replaced with "bullet-bikes" from 1992 to 1998.
I think you looking for a sport-bike.

I have had a Harley Sportster and a Honda CBR900. The CBR was a lot more fun and fast as hell.

You NEED a Suzuki SV650


Check it out, I drove one recently and I need to change my underwear everytime I think about it!


It is the best sportbike in the world.



www.svrider.com

I am considering a used R6 in a few months. I ride dirtbikes a lot, so the feeling of a tire sliding and spinning will be nothing new to me. My bro has an FZ750 that I took up a mountain rode last week. It pretty much sold me that I needed to buy a rice rocket.

If you can, look at thew new sport tourers:  You'll get (most) of the performance of the speed bikes with the comfort/insurance break of a standard.  Point in case:  My '93 Ducati 907 is a sport tourer that looks like a speed bike.  When my insurance company originally quoted me, they did so based on CC's and manufacturer and told me it'd be like $1100/yr.  (A 900 cc Ducati)  I told them to go look at the blue books and that it was a sport tourer:  my insurance for it is about $280/yr.  

I never liked the GSXRs my friends had:  they ran hot and were uncomfortable on those 6-8 hour rides.  Same with the Duc' 748, 888 and 916s (not that I would't like to own one, but not for day trips).  Insurance wasn't too cheap on them either.

If you're looking for get up and go for a fun first time bike, look at the Suzuki Bandit, Ducati Monster 750, Honda ST1100 (even though it's a bit bigger).  Heck, maybe even a Buell M2 or Cyclone (you can still find them on dealer floors even though they aren't made anymore).  If you don't mind small, Buell makes a little 500cc Blast that goes for about $5k.

I've got nothing against the Katanas, YZFs, Blackbirds, GSXRs, etc.  I just think it's possible to get the same power with a more comfortable ride and lower insurance premium by sacrificing some of that flashy fairing work.  

(I love the Ducati 907 I currently ride, even though parts are getting harder to come by.  Probably one of the smoothest/easiest bikes I've ever riden, able to go from highway to backwoods curves without so much as a twitch.

I enjoy my VTR 1000 Superhawk.  It's more bike than I need and they are reasonably priced.  Insurance is high because of the 1000cc engine but it has a lot of low end torque.

SV 650 IS a great motorcycle.

SV 1000 is a greater motorcycle.

For the money you can't beat a Bandit 1200S.

What he speaks is the truth!  But he forgot to mention the best part:  [size=4] MSRP of $5,899![/size=4]

I'll third the recommendation!  My 2000 SV only has 1800 miles on it, but I have worn a smile during every one!  Great brakes, decent suspension, great tech factor (liquid cooled V twin with electronic throttle position sensor, aluminum truss frame), great all around riding position (mine is the Y model - no fairing).  It also does great wheelies and stoppies!

I wanted to get a sports bike (R1, Duc 998, Duc 999), but I'd be too tempted to ride @ hyperspeed all the time.

I went with something part sports bike and part cruiser. Got myself a [b]Power Cruiser[/b] that handles more like a sportsbike, rather than a cruiser. Bike handles great in the twisties, surprising lean angles on this bike. It has tons of torque, launches from the line like a rocket. Will handle it's own from the stop lights. Engine has a lot of potential, lots of hop-up parts for it already.

With a set of good pipes, Power Commander PCIII (programmable ECU), BAK kit (K&N filters). You can gain a lot of additional power from stock.

[b]Yamaha RS Warrior[/b]

[img]http://users.adelphia.net/~redhorse/Warrior/Warrior_L.jpg[/img]

[img]http://users.adelphia.net/~redhorse/Quick_mods/Warrior_backlow_small.JPG[/img]

[list]
[*]Air Cooled V-Twin Fuel injected Beast! [/*]
[*]102 cubic inches (1670cc)[/*]
[*]Aluminum frame & swingarm[/*]
[*]Yamaha  R1 derived 41 mm forks and disc brakes/ calipers[/*]
[*]4 valve & dual spark plugs per cylinder[/*]
[*]200/50-ZR17 rear tire[/*]
[*]LED tail lights, digital Tach...[/*]
[/list]

[img]http://www.yamaha-motor.com/products/mcy/500/03warrior_cstmpnt_1.jpg[/img]

Yamaha RS Warrior site links:
[url]http://www.yamaha-motor.com/products/unitinfo.asp?lid=2&lc=mcy&cid=4&mid=60[/url]

Specs:
[url]http://www.yamaha-motor.com/products/unitspecs.asp?lid=2&lc=mcy&cid=4&mid=60[/url]

Winner of '02 AMA ProStar Drag Racing Championship "Hot Rod Cruiser class"
[url]http://www.yamaha-motor.com/products/mcy/news/cdrag/Prostar_Finals.htm[/url]

Couple of thought on what's been posted so far:
-I want something that out performs me.  Why would you want something that underperforms you?  Ever shot a gun that's less accurate than you?  Remember how frustrating that is?
-Not really interested in Sport-touring.  I wind up riding the Sporty around town, and on short jaunts.  I'm thinking a crotch rocket might be more fun for this.
-I have ridden the new Buells.  Problem is, they are more expensive, yet down peform as well as, the 600cc bikes they're supposed to compete against.  Pay more money to go slower? hmmm, no.
-If I wanted a naked bike, I'd buy a Ducati Monster. Hell, if I could aford a 999 I'd buy that, but since I can't I thought I'd go for a 600cc Jap bike.
-Jap bikes tend to sell below msrp right?  The reason I ask is that in the Harley world, msrp is likely the LEAST you'll pay for one.
-what's the diff between the 600f4i and the 600rr?  How about in price?
-anybody got one of those magazine shoot-outs of the 600cc class bikes handy?  Which bike won?
-If I wanted a cruiser, I'd buy another Harley.  Hell, if I could afford it I'd buy a Vrod right now and be done with it.  I'm silly that way, want a truck? buy an f150.  A revolver? buy a S&W. etc.


Thanks for all the posts guys, I appreciate it and they're getting me thinking.

The magazine editors always seem to pick the Hondas' as the best all around 600 sport bike. The new Triumphs' are nice, and the Ducatis' sound so nice!!!like a Harley on steroids!!!

Depends on the bike and the dealer, but yeah can usually get a few hundred off.



Well considering I just bought a f4i last week, I can tell you the differnce other than the F4i being injected is mainly aesthics (hidden exhaust on the RR), the RR looks meaner and sits a bit more aggressive than the F4i, has more HP, I cant comment on performance.  Other than that any of the 600s have more performance/capability than you will ever use, or will probably want to use.  Either one has 100+ hp out of a 375-380lbs bike, nothing to sneeze at.

The price, was about $1000 difference with the RR being more.  But that could have been an isolated case, my f4i was the only one in town, or even nearby, and it had been on the showroom for a while, the dealers said that they couldnt get the F4i's from the distributors at the moment.  BTW the 600RRs were not being negotiated on very much at all, and every dealer I talked to said they were going out of the shops as fast as they could uncrate them.



Erm depends on the magazine, all the 600's have their good things and their bad things.  To me the honda's seemed the most comfortable sitting on the showroom floor, the yamaha seemed very small/cramped (I am 6'), the kawasaki's just sit funny to me




No problem, I really was going to get a RR, but the dealer offered me a good deal on this F4i.

On thing I learned pretty quick on my F4i, is you dont try and ride it like a dirt bike, it can get hairy quick.  But it handles like a dream, put in on a line and it sticks that line.

I grew up on a farm and started riding motorbikes when I was 12 or 13 and have been riding ever since. I'm 37 now and have never owned a car, only motorbikes. At the moment I have a [url=www.bikepics.com/pictures/033047/]Yamaha TRX-850[/url] (I don't think they were sold in North America, and mine is black, not blue).

If you're a big guy (height/weight), you might find the riding position for the high performance 600's a bit uncompromising.  A "sports tourer" will be easier to get used to coming from a cruiser. They have a more relaxed riding position and they're not as highly tuned as the pure sports bikes. Many of the sports tourers tend to have the same engines as the sportsbikes from the same company, but detuned and in a different frame. Most of the go fast engine parts for the sports models should fit the sports tourer models as well if you want to improve performance later.

If I replaced my current bike tomorrow, I'd look at a [url=www.yamaha-motor.com/products/unitinfo.asp?lid=2&lc=mcy&cid=5&mid=7]Yamaha FZ1[/url], a [url=www.ducati.com/bikes/my2003/ducatiModel.jhtml?modelName=800Sport-03Ducati]Ducato 800 Sport[/url], a [url=www.suzukicycles.com/sr_03/sportstreet/fr_sv1000s.htm]Suzuki SV1000[/url], or a [url=www.suzukicycles.com/sr_03/sportstreet/fr_gsf1200s.htm]Suzuki Bandit 1200S[/url] or the [url=www.hondamotorcycles.com.au/motorcycle+range/road/sports/vfr800fi+03.htm]Honda VFR800[/url] (they're considered to be [b]THE[/b] benchmark for sports tourer bikes here in Australia) as my first considerations. One of my brothers has a [url=www.hondamotorcycle.com/motorcycles/Sport/model.asp?ModelName=Super+Hawk&ModelYear=2003&ModelId=VTR1000F3]Honda SuperHawk[/url] and likes it. His biggest complaint is the limited fuel capacity.

To bad you don't live in Hawaii I am selling a CBR 929 RR and an R6.  Really though they are a lot of bike.  I always wanted a Harley and love the looks but felt out of control rideing them.  Personal preference I guess.

Why does Honda not put the HP of the bikes on the website?  What's the 600hp vs the 600f4i?
They both weigh 370 lbs, and appear to have the same basic motor...
Is the RR just a styling thing?  I'll admit it's a better looking bike than the f4i, but is that all your extra $500 is getting you?

I've been interested in some of the older Buells but I hear that they are shit.

Honda Australia doesn't include power figures either, but Honda UK does (although the model names are slightly different in the UK and they use metric kilowatts not horsepower).

According to Honda-UK the 600RR is 86kw at 13,000 rpm, and the 600F (600F4i) is 81kw at 12,500 rpm.

1 hp = 0.7457 kw, so I figure the RR is 115 hp and the F4i is 108 hp.

Norman, if you have a spare $37,000 sitting around, consider one of these.  [url=http://home.mira.net/~iwd/cruiser/index.html]Drysdale 1000 V-8[/url] [:)]

If you'd care to elaborate on what you mean by "shit" I'd be happy to try and refute/confirm what you've "heard".  Buells being a cousin of the Sportster, and my sportster having a motor that is somwhere between a buell and a standard sporty, I know a little bout Buells.

If I had that much coin, I think I'd be getting one of these:
[img]http://www.confederate.com/cont_products_Images/cont_spec_g2.jpg[/img]

[img]http://www.confederate.com/cont_products_Images/cont_product_g2.jpg[/img]

R6,

Check out the Suzi 750R

I don't know if they are even made anymore but, a Honda CBR XX Blackbird is one badass bike.  It can go 0-60 in 1.2 seconds, first gear is good until 90 mph.  It'll rip your arms off but you'll look good doing it.

Norman, I just realised, I bought a magazine a couple of days ago which has a race track test of 16 sports bikes, tested by 15 different riders, at Jerez in Spain. The fastest bike tested, and voted the best by the test riders was the Suzuki GSX-R1000.

The rest, in terms of average lap times, from second to last were: Aprillia RSV-R, Honda CBR954RR, Yamaha YZF-R1, Aprillia RSV1000, Ducati 999S, Kawasaki ZX-9R, Yamaha YZF-R6, Suzuki GSX-R750, Ducati 999, Suzuki GSX-R600, Kawasaki ZX-6R, Honda CBR600RR, Mondial Piega, Honda VTR SP-2, Ducati 749S.

Just remember, I'm new to the whole sportbike thing, that's why I'm looking at the 600cc bikes.  If I had the money or the inkling to get a larger displacement sport bike, I already know it would be a Hayabusa.  That bike is just gorgeous, and an engineering marvel.  I'm hoping that next year at Daytona they'll have test rides of them.  I didn't get to scope them out last year due to a pissy girlfriend who didn't want to "waste" the whole day on test rides.

That's just what I've heard. I also read a review of the new Firebolt and they mentioned reliability problems with the older model bikes. I love the Buell Cyclone. It's a sport bike with the v-twin sound.

I will tell you right now that unless you take it to a track, you will never be able to use any modern 600 to the full extent of it's capability on the street.  

Bikes (sportbikes) are all about cornering.  Someone who rides them in straight lines all day and has to take a 30mph corner at less than 30mph is what they call a squid.  With sticky, warm tires and good clean roads, you can lean so far that you will scrape hard parts before you will dump it.

As far as an 1100xx or any other bike going 0-60 in 1.2 seconds, that's just flat out wrong.  It might do that in theory on a dyno or if you had a hell for stout wheelie bar, but in the real world there is no way you can accelerate that fast.  You would have to extend your swingarm about 2 feet and strap the front end to even come close to that, since the front tire would be pawing at the sky.  

If you've never ridden a sportbike before I would say that you are correct in wanting a 600.  It will be a drastic change from a cruiser.  My F4i has a 14,200rpm redline, and an R6 is even higher than that.  I belive the new Honda 600RR is around 15,000.

Very few riders can make use of anything bigger than a 600, unless they are going vtwin for the torque, which I understand, or going to a liter bike which makes wheelies a lot easier.  Other than that, you'd have to be valentio rossi to be dissapointed in how a modern 600 performs.

Personally, I agree with Josh. I've always liked the smaller, lighter bikes, especially if I had to ride them on the street. My first street bike was a Yamaha RD350LC in '81 that was a grey market bike from Italy. For me, it was fun on both the street and the track. So, I think you're making an intelligent decision to look at 600s.

Hard to go wrong with a Honda. If you plan on just riding the street, go with the 600F4i. The RR is sexy and has that RC211 family heritage, but it's more track-oriented.

I also like the SV650 because it's a lightweight compared to the fours. A very under-rated/overlooked machine.

The new Kawasaki 636 is also supposed to be really fun. Said to have noticeably more torque than 600s.

Try to ride as many as you can before you buy. Ride safe. [:)]

Edited to add: You know, you might also want to consider one of the super-motard type of bikes. If you're not familiar with them, they're basically street-biased versions of dirt bikes so they're really, really light compared to your usual crotch rocket. True, they don't have the big power numbers since they're singles, but they're really a hoot, especially in town or on real twisty, bumpy roads. Can you say "wheelie fun"? [:D] The KTM Duke comes to mind. Or you could build your own. Take, say, a Honda XR650R, lower it a bit, lace up wide 19-inch rims at both ends for sticky tires--yeah, baby!

Norman, the only way to really find out is to get your arse on a bunch of bikes and take them for a ride.

Back to your original questions. Just like new cars drop 50% of their value as soon as they leave the car lot, the Japanese sports bikes do pretty much the same thing. First, they make so many of them every year, they saturate the market. Second, they keep tweaking the design every year, and not just the appearences. That's a good thing when they improve mechanically, but it's a bad thing because as the designs change, the parts change. New parts are expensive because the distributors have to carry a huge stock to cover all the different models and different years. The cheap alternative is used parts stripped from a wreck of the same model from the same year. Unless you're into customising bikes into something collectable, Japanese bikes only ever go down in value (unless they're limited edition with collectable value).

Those acres of plastic bodywork are also expensive to repair/replace, which is why I personally prefer bikes that have an upper fairing for wind protection but no lower bodywork. All the usual performance engine parts are available for the half faired versions although they are shipped in a lower state of tune than the full faired versions.

Another brand to consider is Triumph from England. Japanese in style and quality (Kawasaki helped Triumph get restarted in the late 80's). Their sports 600 isn't quite a much of a hard charger as the 600's from the Japanese "big 4", but unless you're already very good on a sports bike, it will take quite a while before you could outride a recent model Triumph 600. Triumph have been using fuel injection on their 600's for a couple of years now, and there are reprogrammable injection control units avalable from parts companies.

You might also consider a Ducati SuperSport (not the Monsters). Since they're v-twins they won't feel quite so different to you. They have all the handling of the Japanese sports bikes but don't compete on power for the same displacement (you'd need a 750 Ducati to have similar power to a Japanese 600). There's a big range of performance parts for most Ducati models and there's no sound quite as evocative as the song of a Ducati through a good set of de-restricted exhaust mufflers (The sound turns heads when people hear it, and not for the wrong reasons).

There is no 600 off the showroom floor that is doing 10 second 1/4s.  I ride a RC51 and also have a 1993 Ducati 888.  Sport bikes are great, but there is just too much congestion by me.  I might get something a little more touring oriented.....Like a BMW. For now, I ride an 03' Honda CRF450 dirtbike.  Hondas are the best, definatly in the quality area.

I don't fear riding a motorcycle.

I fear riding a motorcycle with CARS on the same road.    So  many drivers don't see motorcycles, or don't react appropriately to them, that I wouldn't get on a motorcycle (at least not in Florida, the home of the oblivious, blind, deaf, blue-haired driver with an oxygen mask) on a large bet.

Get rid of all the bad car drivers and I MIGHT consider a bike,  but there isn't a chance in hell that I'd jump on one without a full set of heavy duty riding leathers (with skid pads) and the best helmet available, too.  

But it'd also be torture to wear that getup on a hot, humid Florida summer day.

Anybody who'd ride a bike without leathers has NEVER laid one down.  The term for them is FOOLISH.

I'll stick to cars for now, thanks.


CJ

I'm moving back down there.....But I call the place [red]God's Waiting Room[/red]

Some of the earlier Buells had problems with vibration.  The motor mounts sometimes caused excessive wear, especially if someone put the white-lightening heads (101hp).  There were also problems with the air cleaner/box.  Later models fixed a lot of these problems, including a slimming/re-design of the gosh-ugly airbox.

Definetly get a 600, ive had a cbr and a R6 and a R1, all got frikken stolen. modern 600s are way fast enough for a beginner, they will get u into trouble in a hurry.
there is one word of warning that all sportbikers and most classic riders will tell you to be frightened of and avoid at all costs.
MINIVANS, minivans will kill you before anything else on the road.
i will pass on some wisdom to you, watch your corner entrance speed because ive seen more people go into the ditch because they got in to the corner to hot and braked, either losing the front end or standin the bike up and goin strait into the ditch.
keep the rubber side down and have fun!

Any advice on good companies for insurance?  I'm with American Family and they won't touch sport bikes for almost any rider out there.

Mike

[img]http://www.finalfront.com/hosting/users/geepgeep/smallduc.JPG[/img]

...just be sure you can afford to see your money go sliding down the highway [:D]

Good luck with your decision!

rigid out

Did I miss it somewhere, or has nobody suggested the H-D V-Rod?

LOL...OOOOK. Well I have to admit it SEEMS that way. I think my XX redlines at around 115mph in 2nd gear...its a 6 spd of course. They are still made. The XX isn't the speed king any more but it is one of the most refined bikes ever made. It is completely reliable unlike (no offense) the trouble prone Busa. The XX also has one of the absolute smoothest engines ever put in a motorcycle. Coming from the Harley realm consider the fact that Honda didnt even bother with motor mounts...they bolted it straight to the frame. Most XX riders I know of who have over 50k miles on their bikes havent had any trouble at all. Not that that is specific to the XX...Honda just makes extremely reliable bikes. Yes I'm biased but its still true...ok enough of that.

I obviously recommend Honda. Also keep in mind that even though you are looking at 600's...as has been said before they are razor sharp in the stop, go and turn departments. It may only be 600cc but that is enough to propel most of them to around 160mph. Any decent Honda 600 be it the F2, F3, F4, or the F4i would be a great choice. The F4i is the first model with fuel injection. The F series tends to be really comfortable as far as sport bikes go. Honda more or less built a street bike that they could race with the F bikes. The 600RR on the other hand is purpose built to be a race bike...that can be ridden on the street. The riding position on the RR is supposed to be much less comfy...unless of course you are horse jockey sized. Another great choice that has been mentioned is the Superhawk. These bikes are way under rated and coming from a Hog you will be more familar with their power delivery characteristics. Whatever you get...good luck and ride safe.

I'd love a Vrod (if I could get an '02, those 100 aniversary badges look soooo stupid).  but, since it lists @ $19k, and often goes for well over $20k, I don't think it's in my future.

More than anything else....

i'd say the differences between crusiers and crotch rockets are comfort level.....

I've noticed like 75 percent of sportbikes have the most ass painful crotch slapping seats, along with horrible ergonomics for long term riding...

My friend cant ride their f4i's and gixxers without taking a breather cause of the pain...
I took the honda out before and i can personally account that its not the most comfortable seat. However, their are aftermarket seats you can buy that are more comfy and squishy and doesnt throw ur crotch up against the gastank...

Out of the general 600's though, it seems that the honda's have better control and comfort, the suzukis have the most power, and yama's have a decent mix of both....

but hell, just try sitting on differnt bikes and see what you like...
Oh yes,
USED IS DEFINITELY the way to go. Especially with sport bikes...
i've noticed a lot of people tend to just buy a bike and not 100 percent sure if thats what they wanted...
thus they trade it off ina  year or so for somethinb "bigger" or "different"

Or maybe they just didn't have enough rider skill and had to "lay it down"

Lots of reasons why they're used bikes out there...
Definitely check it out though, ebay has a lot of good bikes for sale..
and with the money you save, its a real good idea to invest in gear, anti theft junk, and what not (but i'm sure you already have that covered [BD])
also good track classes can teach you how to really find the limits of your bike...

If you really truly find the 600 needs a little more power, theres a lot of crap you can do to it to increase hp....sprocket changes, power commanders, etc etc..

Insurance... heh well it depends on if you want full coverage or not...and also if you want theft..
just adding theft to my bike jacked up my insurance rates....its cause i live in the city and theft is pretty common....


I have a yzf600r, its a little bigger version of yama's r6, near same power, good looks, but MUCH more comfortable seat and riding position (a little more up)
It's not fuel injected but i don't mind carbs

I know i'm not a track racer, and i don't plan on imitating one, so i really felt like this bike is a good fit.

sv650's are comfy too. If you don't mind the "naked" fairing looks, they are awesome bikes (and great for the track)

oh benelli tornado...
drooooooollllll


good luck [:)]