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Posted: 4/21/2016 11:48:52 AM EDT
I’m having trouble finding real world velocity data for 147 grain 9mm FMJ and 180 grain .40 FMJ loads.
I’m looking to find the hottest load in each loading without going exotic- i.e. I want Winchester USA, American Eagle, Speer Lawman, etc. This is for the bowling pin match I shoot on Monday nights- just trying to have the highest power factor I can while buying my ammo at WalMart. 
The reason I’m looking for real world data is I’m hearing the American Eagle shoots a lot slower than advertised (my normal round of choice). My example is their 147 grain 9mm load. It’s advertised at 1,000 fps, but the two real world sources I found online had it below 900 fps out of a 4” barrel. Links? Real data? |
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Posted: 4/21/2016 11:55:19 AM EDT
[#1]
In .40 you will be hard pressed to get a 180 to 1000fps out of a 4" gun without hand loading. That's the old USPSA major load.
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Posted: 4/21/2016 12:02:23 PM EDT
[#2]
So you did not look at the pistol database in the Armory section for 9 mm loads?
ARF database for pistol I have not loaded the 147 gr with AA#7 in 10 years, I would work that one up again. You can get the coated bullets to go 950 fps with Power Pistol. |
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Posted: 4/21/2016 12:10:01 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So you did not look at the pistol database in the Armory section for 9 mm loads? ARF database for pistol I have not loaded the 147 gr with AA#7 in 10 years, I would work that one up again. You can get the coated bullets to go 950 fps with Power Pistol. Thanks, but I'm not looking to hand load.
Just looking for factory info. |
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Posted: 4/21/2016 12:10:47 PM EDT
[#4]
Reload 200 FMJ in your 40. I do
get a crono |
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Posted: 4/21/2016 12:11:07 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
In .40 you will be hard pressed to get a 180 to 1000fps out of a 4" gun without hand loading. That's the old USPSA major load. I'm not looking for a specific power factor or velocity, just the fastest factory FMJ load available in the mass produced ammo. |
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Posted: 4/21/2016 12:17:33 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm not looking for a specific power factor or velocity, just the fastest factory FMJ load available in the mass produced ammo. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
In .40 you will be hard pressed to get a 180 to 1000fps out of a 4" gun without hand loading. That's the old USPSA major load. I'm not looking for a specific power factor or velocity, just the fastest factory FMJ load available in the mass produced ammo. If only the manufacturers (Federal, Winchester, Etc.) published that data 
Since you want factory ammo, I am not sure why you did not look it up at the mfgs websites You have the caliber and bullet weight, what else is there.
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Posted: 4/21/2016 12:18:43 PM EDT
[#7]
If factory is your only option. I'd recommend the heaviest JHP you can find. Less deflection and more energy transfer on the pins.
ole pin ammo knocking the pins over is easy. clearing the table is another story. |
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Posted: 4/21/2016 12:18:54 PM EDT
[#8]
Do you consider Underwood factory ammo?
+P+ I roll all my own now, but I think I still have an extra G17 mag of his +P+ 147gr XTP stuff in my night stand. It's stout, to say the least. |
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Posted: 4/21/2016 12:18:57 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks, but I'm not looking to hand load.
Just looking for factory info. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So you did not look at the pistol database in the Armory section for 9 mm loads? ARF database for pistol I have not loaded the 147 gr with AA#7 in 10 years, I would work that one up again. You can get the coated bullets to go 950 fps with Power Pistol. Thanks, but I'm not looking to hand load.
Just looking for factory info. Sad - because there is a safe, 1,200 FPS load with 147s and V V powder which would devastate pins - if only you would try hand loading. I used to shoot pins. Whatever factory load you choose make it a FMJ since they tend to grab the pins better than FMJ. |
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Posted: 4/21/2016 12:20:01 PM EDT
[#10]
Do you even reload, bro?
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Posted: 4/21/2016 12:22:53 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If only the manufacturers (Federal, Winchester, Etc.) published that data
Since you want factory ammo, I am not sure why you did not look it up at the mfgs websites You have the caliber and bullet weight, what else is there.Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
In .40 you will be hard pressed to get a 180 to 1000fps out of a 4" gun without hand loading. That's the old USPSA major load. I'm not looking for a specific power factor or velocity, just the fastest factory FMJ load available in the mass produced ammo. If only the manufacturers (Federal, Winchester, Etc.) published that data
Since you want factory ammo, I am not sure why you did not look it up at the mfgs websites You have the caliber and bullet weight, what else is there.Looking for actual data. American Eagle claims 1,000 fps with their 147 grain FMJ load. Two sources I found online showed it less than 900 fps. |
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Posted: 4/21/2016 12:26:19 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Looking for actual data. American Eagle claims 1,000 fps with their 147 grain FMJ load. Two sources I found online showed it less than 900 fps. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
In .40 you will be hard pressed to get a 180 to 1000fps out of a 4" gun without hand loading. That's the old USPSA major load. I'm not looking for a specific power factor or velocity, just the fastest factory FMJ load available in the mass produced ammo. If only the manufacturers (Federal, Winchester, Etc.) published that data
Since you want factory ammo, I am not sure why you did not look it up at the mfgs websites You have the caliber and bullet weight, what else is there.Looking for actual data. American Eagle claims 1,000 fps with their 147 grain FMJ load. Two sources I found online showed it less than 900 fps. Need a chrono. The best you will get with this published data, or even someone else's data is just a SWAG. Different loads produce different results in different weapons. |
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Posted: 4/21/2016 12:26:53 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sad - because there is a safe, 1,200 FPS load with 147s and V V powder which would devastate pins - if only you would try hand loading. I used to shoot pins. Whatever factory load you choose make it a FMJ since they tend to grab the pins better than FMJ. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So you did not look at the pistol database in the Armory section for 9 mm loads? ARF database for pistol I have not loaded the 147 gr with AA#7 in 10 years, I would work that one up again. You can get the coated bullets to go 950 fps with Power Pistol. Thanks, but I'm not looking to hand load.
Just looking for factory info. Sad - because there is a safe, 1,200 FPS load with 147s and V V powder which would devastate pins - if only you would try hand loading. I used to shoot pins. Whatever factory load you choose make it a FMJ since they tend to grab the pins better than FMJ. A very large percentage of the shooters at our matches reload obviously, but I just don't have the time right now between, work, kids, wife, working out, obstacle course races, travel, etc. I actually already have the equipment....which I'm sure will make people cringe. 
A safe 1,200 fps 147 grain 9mm would be awesome! |
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Posted: 4/21/2016 12:28:59 PM EDT
[#14]
Get a 45. Problem solved.
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Posted: 4/21/2016 12:29:57 PM EDT
[#15]
Most factory 147 gr 9mm will be subsonic. I've run ae, Remington, Speer, fiocchi
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Posted: 4/21/2016 12:30:21 PM EDT
[#16]
Winchester white box 9mm 147gr JHP from late 2002 or early 2003.
From my Glock 17 - 850 fps From my Sig 225 - 790 fps From my P7M8 - 830 fps S&W 640 - 770 fps Winchester white box 9mm 147gr JHP from 2008 From my Glock 19 - Avg 880 fps From my Sig 226 - Avg 840 fps From my Browning Hi-Power - Avg 870 fps These are average velocity taken from about 10' from muzzle and from 10 rounds and rounded to nearest 10's. Another issue I noticed is that the high-low readings were very large...sometimes +/- 70 fps or more per 10 shot string. Compared to most of the premium self-defense 9mm 147gr ammo, this Winchester white box ammo is pretty tame. Most premium ammo will give additional 50-70 fps more. Only positive thing I can say is that this ammo has never failed to feed or extract in any of my pistols. ETA: this used to be (maybe it still is) the standard issue ammo for Detroit police dept. Somebody up there may be able to give you some definitive answers about this ammo. |
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Posted: 4/21/2016 12:30:36 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you consider Underwood factory ammo? +P+ I roll all my own now, but I think I still have an extra G17 mag of his +P+ 147gr XTP stuff in my night stand. It's stout, to say the least. I thought about loads like this......I'm only shooting on average 50 rounds/match. |
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Posted: 4/21/2016 12:31:13 PM EDT
[#18]
It seems to me the answer is to take up reloading, for something like .40 and 9mm, you could pay for the equipment in a month or less. You can set it up on a Black & Decker workmate if you have no room. It does not get easier than straight wall pistol cases.
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Posted: 4/21/2016 12:33:31 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Get a 45. Problem solved. Not really necessary given the conditions that our matches are shot at. Very small table where the pins are placed only about 1 foot from the edge at 21 feet. I placed 2nd this week shooting my Glock 19 with 147 grain American Eagle. Given our match conditions, speed is king. If it was a large table, you'd be absolutely right.
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Posted: 4/21/2016 12:33:37 PM EDT
[#20]
I shoot pins with 147 hollow points. I hand load but only go for 925 fps. No problem clearing then from the table. We use a 4x8 sheet of plywood with the pins lined up in the middle for 9mm.
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Posted: 4/21/2016 12:35:21 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks, but I'm not looking to hand load.
Just looking for factory info. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
So you did not look at the pistol database in the Armory section for 9 mm loads? ARF database for pistol I have not loaded the 147 gr with AA#7 in 10 years, I would work that one up again. You can get the coated bullets to go 950 fps with Power Pistol. Thanks, but I'm not looking to hand load.
Just looking for factory info. MV is barrel length dependant (and rifling style can change MV as well). It would help if we knew what gun or at least the barrel length. |
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Posted: 4/21/2016 12:36:37 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Winchester white box 9mm 147gr JHP from late 2002 or early 2003. From my Glock 17 - 850 fps From my Sig 225 - 790 fps From my P7M8 - 830 fps S&W 640 - 770 fps Winchester white box 9mm 147gr JHP from 2008 From my Glock 19 - Avg 880 fps From my Sig 226 - Avg 840 fps From my Browning Hi-Power - Avg 870 fps These are average velocity taken from about 10' from muzzle and from 10 rounds and rounded to nearest 10's. Another issue I noticed is that the high-low readings were very large...sometimes +/- 70 fps or more per 10 shot string. Compared to most of the premium self-defense 9mm 147gr ammo, this Winchester white box ammo is pretty tame. Most premium ammo will give additional 50-70 fps more. Only positive thing I can say is that this ammo has never failed to feed or extract in any of my pistols. ETA: this used to be (maybe it still is) the standard issue ammo for Detroit police dept. Somebody up there may be able to give you some definitive answers about this ammo. Thanks! This is the kind of information I'm looking for.
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Posted: 4/21/2016 12:41:26 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It seems to me the answer is to take up reloading, for something like .40 and 9mm, you could pay for the equipment in a month or less. You can set it up on a Black & Decker workmate if you have no room. It does not get easier than straight wall pistol cases. i already own the equipment- just need 9mm dies. It's the time I lack. |
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Posted: 4/21/2016 12:41:41 PM EDT
[#24]
Buffalo bore makes or made some hot 147grn ammo:
http://www.wholesalehunter.com/product.asp?productid=113154 But probably too costly for regular use. |
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Posted: 4/21/2016 1:03:59 PM EDT
[#25]
Bowling pin Vfinal for 1.5kg pin:
147 @ 850fps: 5.63 fps 147 @ 950fps: 5.99 fps 147 @ 1050fps: 6.63 fps 180 @ 1000fps: 7.72fps 230 @ 850fps: 8.63fps Since your table is so narrow, I don't see a reason to prefer a fast 147 over a slow one. Since speed is king, I'd actually pick the slowest 147 that cycled my gun. That would be the 145 Silver Bear, but walmart probably doesn't carry it. |
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Posted: 4/21/2016 1:07:41 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I thought about loads like this......I'm only shooting on average 50 rounds/match. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Do you consider Underwood factory ammo? +P+ I roll all my own now, but I think I still have an extra G17 mag of his +P+ 147gr XTP stuff in my night stand. It's stout, to say the least. I thought about loads like this......I'm only shooting on average 50 rounds/match. Agreed with Underwood. The 147 +p+ is easy to shoot too. Check out the TNoutsoors9 video on the gold dots. They also have fmj. |
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Posted: 4/21/2016 1:48:27 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bowling pin Vfinal for 1.5kg pin: 147 @ 850fps: 5.63 fps 147 @ 950fps: 5.99 fps 147 @ 1050fps: 6.63 fps 180 @ 1000fps: 7.72fps 230 @ 850fps: 8.63fps Since your table is so narrow, I don't see a reason to prefer a fast 147 over a slow one. Since speed is king, I'd actually pick the slowest 147 that cycled my gun. That would be the 145 Silver Bear, but walmart probably doesn't carry it. You're probably right, and I'm probably overthinking it. I came in second place this week with 147 American eagle.
Just trying to get the slightest edge I can.....without being slower. |
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Posted: 4/21/2016 2:02:11 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A very large percentage of the shooters at our matches reload obviously, but I just don't have the time right now between, work, kids, wife, working out, obstacle course races, travel, etc. I actually already have the equipment....which I'm sure will make people cringe.
A safe 1,200 fps 147 grain 9mm would be awesome! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So you did not look at the pistol database in the Armory section for 9 mm loads? ARF database for pistol I have not loaded the 147 gr with AA#7 in 10 years, I would work that one up again. You can get the coated bullets to go 950 fps with Power Pistol. Thanks, but I'm not looking to hand load.
Just looking for factory info. Sad - because there is a safe, 1,200 FPS load with 147s and V V powder which would devastate pins - if only you would try hand loading. I used to shoot pins. Whatever factory load you choose make it a FMJ since they tend to grab the pins better than FMJ. A very large percentage of the shooters at our matches reload obviously, but I just don't have the time right now between, work, kids, wife, working out, obstacle course races, travel, etc. I actually already have the equipment....which I'm sure will make people cringe.
A safe 1,200 fps 147 grain 9mm would be awesome! I sincerely doubt you are going to find a 147 gr going 1200 fps. ETA even with +P+ if anyone even makes such a thing. |
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Posted: 4/21/2016 2:12:05 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I sincerely doubt you are going to find a 147 gr going 1200 fps. ETA even with +P+ if anyone even makes such a thing. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
So you did not look at the pistol database in the Armory section for 9 mm loads? ARF database for pistol I have not loaded the 147 gr with AA#7 in 10 years, I would work that one up again. You can get the coated bullets to go 950 fps with Power Pistol. Thanks, but I'm not looking to hand load.
Just looking for factory info. Sad - because there is a safe, 1,200 FPS load with 147s and V V powder which would devastate pins - if only you would try hand loading. I used to shoot pins. Whatever factory load you choose make it a FMJ since they tend to grab the pins better than FMJ. A very large percentage of the shooters at our matches reload obviously, but I just don't have the time right now between, work, kids, wife, working out, obstacle course races, travel, etc. I actually already have the equipment....which I'm sure will make people cringe.
A safe 1,200 fps 147 grain 9mm would be awesome! I sincerely doubt you are going to find a 147 gr going 1200 fps. ETA even with +P+ if anyone even makes such a thing. 9x23 gets about 1250-1270 with 147. |
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Posted: 4/21/2016 2:15:30 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not really necessary given the conditions that our matches are shot at. Very small table where the pins are placed only about 1 foot from the edge at 21 feet. I placed 2nd this week shooting my Glock 19 with 147 grain American Eagle. Given our match conditions, speed is king. If it was a large table, you'd be absolutely right. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Get a 45. Problem solved. Not really necessary given the conditions that our matches are shot at. Very small table where the pins are placed only about 1 foot from the edge at 21 feet. I placed 2nd this week shooting my Glock 19 with 147 grain American Eagle. Given our match conditions, speed is king. If it was a large table, you'd be absolutely right. 147 berry's plated over 3.3gr titegroup at 1.16" works in 9mm.... 200gr Bayou Bullets semi wadcutter over 4.3gr titegroup at...oh, never mind. 
Seriously, reload and you'll find there's a whole world of difference. |
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Posted: 4/21/2016 2:19:41 PM EDT
[#31]
VV publishes 9x19 data with a 147gr XTP that gets 1200 fps with 3n37 or 3n38.
I'd bet you can get real close with Power Pistol. |
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