I had a deputy pull me over for a traffic violation, when he discovered I had a pistol in my vehicle he handcuffed me and stuffed me in the patrol car. (all the while Im asking why)
  After he got me in the car he notified me that I was being arrested for having the pistol in my truck without a carry permit(which not needed in Georgia)
  I heard his supervisor tell him on the radio that it was legal for me to have the pistol in the truck, so he let me go.
   Anything like this ever happen to you?

Be sure you file a formal written complain first thing Monday AM. It only takes a few minutes to do. He will remember the law next time and his buddies will know what got him in trouble.

Gave consent to search my car once when I was on the way to the range. I wish I had a picture of his face to post for yall. It wasn't so bad though.

Got some shit during the DC shootings with my AR15.com liscense plate frames. I survived though.

All the other times were cool, VA Trooper let me slide off a speeding ticket after talking guns for about a hour on the side of the road.

.

I was coming home from the sports shop one day and I got pulled over for whatever,the officer sees a box of ammo on my front seat and tells me to get out of the truck,I complied and asked him "whats wrong?"
he reaches in my truck and looks at me and smiles and says I am in big trouble,he is about to arrest me for possession of hollowpoint bullets,they are illegal under certain instances here in jersey but not what I was doing (going home from just buying them).
I very politely told him that if he wanted to see any of his paychceck for the next 10 years he really needed to get on the radio and ask his commanding officer about this situation.
I told him once I was arrested that an apology was not going to be accepted and that i would sue him and the dept..
He balked ,but he radioed in and came back and gave me my ammo and said he was sorry for the misunderstanding,I accepted his apology and was on my way knowing I had educated another LEO on our fine nazi laws here in NJ.

I would say the vast majority of us do know the gun laws. Of course there is the occasional idiot who attempts to enforce something he has no clue about, but that would be far and few between.

Pretty rotten but at least it got resolved fairly quickly.


I'm sure plenty of cops don't know ALL the laws regarding firearms - that's sort of part of "the plan".


Cops don't know gun laws.
Gun owners don't know gun safety.
Congressmen don't know the Constitution.
Voters don't know their ass from a hole in the ground.

Ignorance is ubiquitous.

By my experience, LEOs mostly enforce gun laws by their personal feelings, not the law.

NME, you hit the nail on the head.  Too often, even when it isn't gun related, I've seen officers go by their gut feeling.  Of course, that's why we have the courts to straighten out these sort of things after the fact.z

I agree with The_Macallan, and NME. I do think police should get more training on weapons laws. I know them, because thats what Im into, but there are a few who don't. Of course I also work on fedral land, and the law is pretty simple there. Don't have them.
 

Its a bit off topic but I have a friend (postal employee) who was pulled over and almost recieved a ticket for not having a license plate on his postal delivery truck (old type mail jeep) Now has anyone ever seen a license plate on a USPS delivery vehicle?

Yes it is!  (or is it BLISS?!?) [NI]

cnatra, I never thought I'd say this but...Your Avatar sucks!

I had a former roomate that was APD.  He insisted that it was illegal to own a select-fire weapon even with a Class 3 license.  He went on to say that he would arrest anyone he caught with such a weapon.  I directed him to the law books and his supervisor and earned a sixpack out of that.  This educaiton or (lack ther of) of LEO's in gun laws is not uncommon.

I would disagee with you.  Being from North Carolina, i am sure all the cops there might know most of the gun laws.  They might run into a problem with NFA guns if you have them there.  Ive been studying gun laws for 3 years and i cant keep up with some states.  New Jersey, New York, and California have so many laws now that there is no way in hell your average joe cop would know half of them.  They could only know the basics.  Even with vast firearm knowledge they cant keep up with Californias countless laws.  [url]http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/[/url]

I cant keep up with them and its my hobby.

Roger that!

Jay

Now if we could just get you guys to do that with the drug laws.........

Couple things from cops heard in Memphis:

[b]#1 From a cop who was a martial arts expert:[/b]
"(Citizens) don't need to carry guns. If someone is shooting at you, and he is more than 10 feet away... just run.  He won't hit you."

I seriously believe this cop thought he could dodge bullets.  He is part of the Memphis Gang Unit.  [rolleyes]

[b]#2 Cousin at a traffic accident showing cop permit just to let him know he was carrying:[/b]
COP: "What's this?"
COUSIN: "I just wanted to let you know I had a permit and am carrying a handgun."
COP: "A GUN?!" (freaked out cop now)
COUSIN: "Yes."
COP: "WHERE IS IT???!!!
COUSIN: "In my pocket.
COP: "IN YOUR POCKET???!!!"

Apparently he didn't know citizens were allowed to carry in TN.  [rolleyes] I mean if this cop were any more jumpy, it sounded like he was almost going to draw his gun and shoot my cousin, who was very calm throughout the ordeal.

#3 From a cop who'd had it rough in a particular precinct:
"I hate to say it, and please don't think I'm racist, I have a lot of black friends that are officers.  But in my precinct, if a guy has a gun in his car... most of the time if he's white, I'll let him go, if he's black, we'll bring him in.  Just from past experience, this is usually how it goes.  We almost never find white guys causing trouble in that precinct... they're just all running around trying to protect themselves."

#3 doesnt sound racist to me. [:|]

Did you miss the day of class where they said youre not there to interpert the law youre there to enforce it?

Well if you are being shot at by some of the sorry shot deputies I work with then he's right...you won't get hit.  

Its pretty much common knowledge that if an assailant with a knife is inside 20 feet you will get stabbed ebfore you can draw and disable if he decides to rush you.

This thread is cop bashing and must be locked immediatly.

South precinct sucks as a beat.  I knew one cop that worked it in the late 80s early 90s that was involved in something like a shooting a year.  

But yeah, Memphis cops by and large are morons when it comes to the actual laws, I even read their 'handbook' on what the laws were and it was incorrect (it said that a permit holder HAD to be carring concealed, which is incorrect in TN), I corrected it for the guy that I knew that was in the academy.

union2k2 I guess I could see where cops wouldn’t know the laws in the states your talking about. Most of the guys I deal with day to day are gun enthusiasts, so I suppose my opinion on that would be a little bias, that and North Carolina is a “gun friendly state”.

#1 thing to remember when being pulled over: never consent to a search! What possessed you to consent to a search?

Oops, you live in VA. That's the state whos residents don't blink twice to letting jack-booted thugs with M4s stop traffic on the interstate and search white trucks without probable cause or a warrant. I guess I answered my own question. [rolleyes]



On the flip side, few if any state or local cops know about federal gun laws like the AW Ban and thus won't send for federal charges...

Here in Utah they will ticket a person for not having a plate on the front of their vehicle.  Even if the car doesn't supply a place for it.  They just tell you to drill a couple of holes in your bumper or whatever,  just get it done.



Sorry to hijack.

I think the dude was delivering mail at the time...

it really depends on the cop if you get harrassed or not, ive been pulled over by both.
i have a permit and my freind got pulled over on our motorcycles, i told the cop that i had a permit and my pistol was in my tank bag, he was very cool and thanked me for letting him know.
i got pulled over in my truck going to my freinds house and had my pistol and my AR with me. my AR was wrapped in a towel on the front seat and my pistol was on my hip. the cop came up and looked in the window and jumped back and drew his pistol, i kept my hands on the wheel and told him i had a gun permit and i had my rifle and my pistol in the truck. last thing i wanted was to get shot by some trigger happy cop, he called 2 more cars
= 4 more cops and had me get out of my truck and do the whole deal at gun point. when it was over his sargent was pissed and apoligized for his officer. i was gonna sue but i figured he probably got his from the sargent, so i didnt.
all he seen was the but of the AR and wouldnt listen to anything i had to say until the back up got there.  there are some scary trigger happy cops out there so keeps your hands on the wheel till you know want your dealing with.

Good advice to keep hands on the wheel.  Sometimes (as many may recall recently happened) one will shout to not move, while another shouts to get out of the car.  Scared (randomly stopped & innocent) kid gets a round of .223 in the face for confusedly trying to comply (reached to take off seat belt).  The best thing to do is just try to avoid them at all costs.

Hey 82nd,
 I hate to be this way, but the excuse that there are too many laws for a cop to know is a copout.  If you are a peace officer I believe that it is your duty to know the laws that you are enforcing.  If you are incapable of remembering them, then maybe you shouldn't be a cop.

T-Ray, In front of me right now I have the 2003 edition of the Federal Criminal Law Handbook, it has 975 pages. I also have the 2003 edition of the North Carolina Criminal Law and Motor Vehicle Handbook, it has 1438 pages. So you think I should have to remember all that hu? I’ve got a better idea, why don’t you memorize your writes as a citizen, which I’d say about 50-60% of Americans know, if that.
Heres the link for ya, let me know when you've got it all memorized. Its only 2 or 3 pages worth, so you should be able to handle it.

http://www.house.gov/Constitution/Amend.html

Again, more great advice here, as knowing one's rights is one of the ways to try to avoid getting harassed by police who don't know the law they're trying to arrest you for breaking isn't really a law at all.

Also, telling the police that you know your rights is a good way to make things worse for yourself -- but that's beside the point.

Come on now, don't be obtuse.  It's the easy things.  ARs legal, here in TX you can carry a loaded longarm, some people have concealed carry licenses...  I don't expect complete knowledge of the minutia, but the level of incompetence sickening.

These things may seem easy to you and I because we're gun enthusiasts. To a few cops guns are just something they need for the job, and don’t know much about outside the job. So to them gun laws are similar to many other laws. You just can’t remember them all. I agree it is incompetence to attempt to enforce a law you don’t know, but Id say you’re average citizen thinks guns like AK’s, And AR’s are military guns, and not legal for the rest of us. The first time I brought my AR home to shoot with some friends in New York they thought it was really cool to shoot a cop gun, I tried to explain to them, that anyone can buy one of those, but it just wouldn’t sink in. Now if your talking BATF, Id say they do need to know the basics, or atleast have a reference in hand at all times. I hear alot on these boards about guns being taken because they look like they could be illegal.

What's worse that cops not knowing gun laws, is freakin FFLs not knowing the laws.  I swear 50% of FFLs don't know jackshit.  But that is a whole other topic...

Some of us do... [;)]

But you are right, And we won't even start on NFA law.

with as many gun laws in the country, I'm surprised that MORE LEOs don't mess up!

AMEN

Same place he did apparently
[rolleyes]

What happened to center mass?[rolleyes]

[URL]http://216.239.39.100/search?q=cache:0U6KjJHa1ycC:www.supervirtual.com.br/acervo/GUNVSK~1.TXT++GAP+EDGED+WEAPON+21+FEET&hl=en&ie=UTF-8[/URL]

Gun Versus Knife



                           And the winner is...



                             By Eugene Nielsen



The author provides investigative and tactical consulting services.  He is
a California licensed private investigator and a former police officer and
has had many articles published on survival-related subjects and products
--- The editor.



According to statistics, 80 percent of the criminal miscreants that you
encounter will be carrying some kind of edged weapon.  But, you have a CCW
and are quite proficient with your handgun.  So, what do you have to be
concerned about?  More than you may think!



Twenty-one feet has been widely accepted by the law enforcement community
as the minimum distance necessary to survive an edged weapon attack with an
armed response.  The 21-foot rule is intended to provide a sufficient
reactionary gap to draw a firearm and survive the attack.  However, even
this distance might not be enough.



The adequacy of the 21-foot rule has come into question.  Some recent
studies show that 21 feet may be inadequate. One such study was conducted
by Florida police officer Steve Ribolla, Defensive Tactics and Physical
Training Coordinator for the George Stone Criminal Justice Training Center
in Pensacola, Florida.  Ribolla reported the results of the study in an
article, titled “Is 21 Feet Enough?” published in the May/June 1998 issue
of The Law Enforcement Trainer, the journal of the American Society for Law
Enforcement Training (ASLET).



The study was conducted over a two-year period (1995 -1997). The
participants included 128 basic recruit officers attending the George Stone
Criminal Justice Training Center. The participants were placed in a square
in the middle of a room. The participants were attacked by one of two
assailants from 45 degrees off ether flank at distances of  3, 5, 10, and
21 feet.  The participants were equipped with standard duty gear (pistol
belt, holster and training firearm).



The participants were instructed to start in an interview stance and when
attacked to draw, fire two rounds at center of mass and then move out of
the path of the attacker in an attempt to evade the attacker’s momentum. If
a participant in cleared the path of the attacker, he or she was considered
to have survived the attack. If a participant fired, but was unable to move
out of the path of the attacker, he or she was considered not to have
survived the attack.



Data was collected at each distance. At distances of 10 feet or less, none
of the participants survived the attack. At 15 feet, only one of the 128
participants survived the attack, correlating to a .8 percent survival
rate. At 21 feet,  the number of survivors was still extremely low ¾ just 8
participants or 6.3 percent survived the attack.



Variable information was collected to describe the demographics of the
population tested. These independent variables included: “class (law
enforcement or corrections), sex, age, fitness level, previous knife
defense training, previous firearms training and mind-set (to shoot or use
physical control).” According to Ribolla, multiple regression analysis
found no significant relationship between any of the independent variables
and survival at each distance.



Action is always quicker than reaction. There are four distinct stages that
you must undergo to react to an assault: 1) you must first perceive the
threat; 2) you must then evaluate the threat; 3) you must then formulate
the response; and finally 4) you must initiate motor action. On the other
hand, there are only three stages that an assailant has to undergo to
assault you: 1) the assailant has to identify your relative position; 2)
formulate the assault; and then 3) initiate the assault.



Early identification of a threat is essential for you to have adequate time
to formulate an appropriate response. Training and experience are important
factors. You must know what to look for and how to respond
appropriately. Distance is another important factor. Distance buys you time
to react.



However, no matter how experienced you are, the early perception of a
threat is not always possible. Normally you will not be aware of an
impending assault until after it has been initiated.  You will only be in
the beginning stage of the psychomotor reaction process when your assailant
has already entered the last stage. This obviously gives your assailant an
enormous advantage.



When attacked by an assailant armed with an edged weapon, you will probably
instinctively go for your gun. Although the use of deadly force to defend
against an assailant armed with an edged weapon may be legally justifiable,
it may not be tactically sound.



In most instances you won’t have the necessary time to draw, fire and evade
the attack. Most edged weapon attacks are surprise assaults initiated at
close range. Even if you shoot an assailant through the heart, he will have
enough residual oxygen to remain conscious for up to 15 seconds. Although
drawing and firing your handgun is a natural response, it could be a deadly
response for you.



Ribolla’s study makes it clear that you must first utilize a defensive
maneuver such as a sweep and disengage to evade the line of momentum of the
attacker. Only after you have cleared the path of your attacker and are out
of the kill zone in the opposite direction of the attacker does it become
tactically sound for you to draw your firearm. If the attacker redirects
the direction of the attack and re-attacks you, there will be sufficient
time to make the decision to use deadly force.



Ribolla admits that his study may be difficult to correlate to real-world
situations because of the many uncontrollable variables. However, as
Ribolla points out, it clearly does emphasize the need for an increased
awareness of the dangers posed from edged weapons.



Is the 21-foot rule adequate? Ribolla’s study would indicate that it’s not
adequate. Some have suggested that the 21-foot rule should be replaced with
a 25-foot rule. However, from a practical standpoint, whether or not the
21-foot rule or a 25-foot rule provides adequate reaction time is more
often than not a moot issue. Most edged weapon attacks are initiated at
well under 21 feet.

So the lesson today is...
Never bring a gun to a knife fight! [:D]

This is called the Tueller Drill and its commonly known. It has proven that the average man can cover and enagage you from 21 feet in 1.5 seconds or under, which means somone wielding a kinfe or club at that distance is a potentially lethal threat and should be handled as such.

Basically, we are all in agreement then.  We need fewer gun laws and people with knives need to run slower.  I'm OK with all that.

I am exceptionally knowledgable about state and local laws, and federal firearms laws. Most of my co-workers are pretty well-versed in the law as well, and we still have some pretty severe debates about it.

Cops cannot always get it right. Most know little beyond state firearms laws, and many don't even understand those bery well. Look at it this way: they are going to deal with stuff like Theft, Assault and various Traffic laws much, much more frequently than weapons laws, and most "weapons" offense don't involve firearms, anyway. Most involve an object being used in a manner to inflict serious bodily injury (knives, blunt objects, ect.). Gun stuff only enters into the picture very infrequently, and the Patrol grunts usually make a frenzied call to one of "gun nuts" to sort things out. Heck, I wish they did more often, because they occasionally let some very serious ones go. (You mean a felon can't carry a pistol? A sawed-off shotgun is illegal?).

As to the knife thing, 21 feet is the generally accepted rule. A BG armed with an edged weapon can close with you and deliver fatal wounds before you can draw and fire. Action is faster than reaction. When folks don't believe us on that (I am a tactical "trainer"), we can and will arrange a demonstration with simunitions. Heck, you can be pointing a weapon at a BG, and a trained a disciplined opponent can draw and get a shot into you before you can react and hit them. Check your preconceived notions at the door. Deadly force encounters aren't what you see in the movies.

On that COPS TV show, a female officier identified an SKS as an AK-47.

And an apartment manager was arrested for owning a legal SKS.

Both incidents occured in California.

Lots of cops don't know much about guns, let alone gun laws. Right now, the California AW ban is such that pretty much no one knows what it means. Cops included.

How many cops would know the legalities of building, say, an FN FAL (how many US parts must be used, etc.)? Aside from those who build them, of course?