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Posted: 1/2/2016 12:39:37 AM EDT
Thank to a few members on here I've gone nose first back into the subject of the Central American wars and the more I read the more confusing it gets.
So these guys in the video were the quote good guys according to Reagan?  |
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Posted: 1/2/2016 12:48:52 AM EDT
[#1]
No,they were the bad guys. If those no good assholes hadn't killed Ché,he would have been at the party too
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Posted: 1/2/2016 12:51:33 AM EDT
[#2]
Why do you assume there were good guys and bad guys?
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Posted: 1/2/2016 12:51:38 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No,they were the bad guys. If those no good assholes hadn't killed Ché,he would have been at the party too http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02048/19850111-castro_2048526i.jpg The Contras were elements of the former Nicaraguan army....At least that is what I've been lead to believe. |
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Posted: 1/2/2016 12:52:43 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why do you assume there were good guys and bad guys?  |
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Posted: 1/2/2016 12:54:48 AM EDT
[#5]
Another front on the global Cold War chess table, and as such, things were never really that simple or clear-cut.
Sandinistas aligned with Cuba and other socialist/ communist govs, the Contras opposed the Sandinistas and got support from the US. IMHO and YMMV Also check out Liberation Theology, and the Iran-Contra issue. |
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Posted: 1/2/2016 12:55:47 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well we supported one group....The Commbloc supported the other.....Guess that is about as clear as you can get. Commie supported (Bad guys) Capitalist supported (Good guys or better guys) Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Why do you assume there were good guys and bad guys? Congress would not all us to support the non communists. We had to trick the Iranians into funding them for us. 
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Posted: 1/2/2016 12:56:12 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why do you assume there were good guys and bad guys? Exactly. There were our guys and their guys. Contras were our guys. |
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Posted: 1/2/2016 12:56:34 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Congress would not all us to support the non communists. We had to trick the Iranians into funding them for us. http://cache4.asset-cache.net/gc/453031964-author-fawn-hall-poses-for-a-portrait-in-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=GkZZ8bf5zL1ZiijUmxa7QbMtSxGkDtDWe4wiAm4FNDYB%2BdWTefvlSAMd62JfF0O7McuBZdnm0JlzSy8HQD0QoQ%3D%3D Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Why do you assume there were good guys and bad guys? Congress would not all us to support the non communists. We had to trick the Iranians into funding them for us. http://cache4.asset-cache.net/gc/453031964-author-fawn-hall-poses-for-a-portrait-in-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=GkZZ8bf5zL1ZiijUmxa7QbMtSxGkDtDWe4wiAm4FNDYB%2BdWTefvlSAMd62JfF0O7McuBZdnm0JlzSy8HQD0QoQ%3D%3D  |
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Posted: 1/2/2016 12:56:37 AM EDT
[#9]
lol. |
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Posted: 1/2/2016 12:56:40 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Congress would not all us to support the non communists. We had to trick the Iranians funding them for us. http://cache4.asset-cache.net/gc/453031964-author-fawn-hall-poses-for-a-portrait-in-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=GkZZ8bf5zL1ZiijUmxa7QbMtSxGkDtDWe4wiAm4FNDYB%2BdWTefvlSAMd62JfF0O7McuBZdnm0JlzSy8HQD0QoQ%3D%3D Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Why do you assume there were good guys and bad guys? Congress would not all us to support the non communists. We had to trick the Iranians funding them for us. http://cache4.asset-cache.net/gc/453031964-author-fawn-hall-poses-for-a-portrait-in-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=GkZZ8bf5zL1ZiijUmxa7QbMtSxGkDtDWe4wiAm4FNDYB%2BdWTefvlSAMd62JfF0O7McuBZdnm0JlzSy8HQD0QoQ%3D%3D I don't know how many people would recognize her or have any idea who/ what. |
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Posted: 1/2/2016 12:57:45 AM EDT
[#11]
Fawn?
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Posted: 1/2/2016 12:57:53 AM EDT
[#12]
School Of The Americas needed clients.
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Posted: 1/2/2016 12:58:41 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't know how many people would recognize her or have any idea who/ what. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Why do you assume there were good guys and bad guys? Congress would not all us to support the non communists. We had to trick the Iranians funding them for us. http://cache4.asset-cache.net/gc/453031964-author-fawn-hall-poses-for-a-portrait-in-gettyimages.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=GkZZ8bf5zL1ZiijUmxa7QbMtSxGkDtDWe4wiAm4FNDYB%2BdWTefvlSAMd62JfF0O7McuBZdnm0JlzSy8HQD0QoQ%3D%3D I don't know how many people would recognize her or have any idea who/ what. Yeah, when I posted that I knew that was going to catch a very narrow ARFCOM demographic. 
Quoted:
Fawn? Si
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Posted: 1/2/2016 12:59:28 AM EDT
[#14]
Ah,
"If we don't support these assholes, then those assholes are going to take over. American foreign policy at its finest.
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Posted: 1/2/2016 1:18:57 AM EDT
[#15]
If you find an unbiased history of the Central American wars, please let me know. I'd love to read it. |
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Posted: 1/2/2016 1:20:17 AM EDT
[#16]
"Mr Hasenfus is not, nor has he ever been affiliated with the agency".
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Posted: 1/2/2016 1:20:32 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Fawn? She was going to make me a pot. |
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Posted: 1/2/2016 1:21:23 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
She was going to make me a pot. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Fawn? She was going to make me a pot. 
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Posted: 1/2/2016 1:24:58 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are you sure you are not talking about the Sandanistas(Rebel group that took over from the Samosa regime?) The Contras were elements of the former Nicaraguan army....At least that is what I've been lead to believe. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
No,they were the bad guys. If those no good assholes hadn't killed Ché,he would have been at the party too http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02048/19850111-castro_2048526i.jpg The Contras were elements of the former Nicaraguan army....At least that is what I've been lead to believe. At risk of being a dick: There is no,absolutely no way that you could come to the conclusion that the fight between the Sandinistas and Contras was confusing,unless you were a member of The Clash or an advisor to Jimmy Carter. Samoza was a West Point graduate and very pro-US. Carter was swayed by people like Ed Koch and Andrew Young to not only not counter the support the USSR,Cuba and even Vietnam were giving the Sandinistas but to blockade arms shipped from Israel to the National Guard. If you were a Democrat circa 1979 you would see Ortega as a good guy,cut from the same patriotic progressive cloth as Mugabe and Khomeini. The Contras were formed from former National Guardsmen of Samozas regime,yes.They also had a high degree of support amongst the Moskito people. But still,how can you possibly have a supreme interest in the Bush Wars of Africa and FALs and not know anything about Nicaragua? Castro supplied a huge number of Cuban FALs to the Sandinistas and then the Argentines sent many to the Contras. |
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Posted: 1/2/2016 1:25:08 AM EDT
[#20]
Guess which side the Democrats and Hollywood supported? There. You have your answer.
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Posted: 1/2/2016 1:27:17 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ah, "If we don't support these assholes, then those assholes are going to take over. American foreign policy at its finest. But also with the second commandment of American Foreign policy : Who cares what happens in their country, the real question is which set of Assholes, will give corporate America the best deal?
Edit to add : Anastasio Somoza - "Since the Nicaraguan people are no more than oxen, they don't need schools. What they need is hard work, not education." A man of the people for sure, That is the trouble with dictators, eventually you go too far and the people decide it's time for a new government. |
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Posted: 1/2/2016 1:30:38 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: At risk of being a dick: There is no,absolutely no way that you could come to the conclusion that the fight between the Sandinistas and Contras was confusing,unless you were a member of The Clash or an advisor to Jimmy Carter. Samoza was a West Point graduate and very pro-US. Carter was swayed by people like Ed Koch and Andrew Young to not only not counter the support the USSR,Cuba and even Vietnam were giving the Sandinistas but to blockade arms shipped from Israel to the National Guard. If you were a Democrat circa 1979 you would see Ortega as a good guy,cut from the same patriotic progressive cloth as Mugabe and Khomeini. The Contras were formed from former National Guardsmen of Samozas regime,yes.They also had a high degree of support amongst the Moskito people. But still,how can you possibly have a supreme interest in the Bush Wars of Africa and FALs and not know anything about Nicaragua? Castro supplied a huge number of Cuban FALs to the Sandinistas (That I knew) and then the Argentines sent many to the Contras. (That I didn't know) Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: No,they were the bad guys. If those no good assholes hadn't killed Ché,he would have been at the party too http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02048/19850111-castro_2048526i.jpg The Contras were elements of the former Nicaraguan army....At least that is what I've been lead to believe. At risk of being a dick: There is no,absolutely no way that you could come to the conclusion that the fight between the Sandinistas and Contras was confusing,unless you were a member of The Clash or an advisor to Jimmy Carter. Samoza was a West Point graduate and very pro-US. Carter was swayed by people like Ed Koch and Andrew Young to not only not counter the support the USSR,Cuba and even Vietnam were giving the Sandinistas but to blockade arms shipped from Israel to the National Guard. If you were a Democrat circa 1979 you would see Ortega as a good guy,cut from the same patriotic progressive cloth as Mugabe and Khomeini. The Contras were formed from former National Guardsmen of Samozas regime,yes.They also had a high degree of support amongst the Moskito people. But still,how can you possibly have a supreme interest in the Bush Wars of Africa and FALs and not know anything about Nicaragua? Castro supplied a huge number of Cuban FALs to the Sandinistas (That I knew) and then the Argentines sent many to the Contras. (That I didn't know) It's confusing because of the fact that both sides killed innocent people. There was this incident below which turned most off of the Samoza regime. As far as after the Sandanista govt took over and the conflict after that is what is confusing. |
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Posted: 1/2/2016 1:36:23 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
At risk of being a dick: There is no,absolutely no way that you could come to the conclusion that the fight between the Sandinistas and Contras was confusing,unless you were a member of The Clash or an advisor to Jimmy Carter. Samoza was a West Point graduate and very pro-US. Carter was swayed by people like Ed Koch and Andrew Young to not only not counter the support the USSR,Cuba and even Vietnam were giving the Sandinistas but to blockade arms shipped from Israel to the National Guard. If you were a Democrat circa 1979 you would see Ortega as a good guy,cut from the same patriotic progressive cloth as Mugabe and Khomeini. The Contras were formed from former National Guardsmen of Samozas regime,yes.They also had a high degree of support amongst the Moskito people. But still,how can you possibly have a supreme interest in the Bush Wars of Africa and FALs and not know anything about Nicaragua? Castro supplied a huge number of Cuban FALs to the Sandinistas and then the Argentines sent many to the Contras. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
No,they were the bad guys. If those no good assholes hadn't killed Ché,he would have been at the party too http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02048/19850111-castro_2048526i.jpg The Contras were elements of the former Nicaraguan army....At least that is what I've been lead to believe. At risk of being a dick: There is no,absolutely no way that you could come to the conclusion that the fight between the Sandinistas and Contras was confusing,unless you were a member of The Clash or an advisor to Jimmy Carter. Samoza was a West Point graduate and very pro-US. Carter was swayed by people like Ed Koch and Andrew Young to not only not counter the support the USSR,Cuba and even Vietnam were giving the Sandinistas but to blockade arms shipped from Israel to the National Guard. If you were a Democrat circa 1979 you would see Ortega as a good guy,cut from the same patriotic progressive cloth as Mugabe and Khomeini. The Contras were formed from former National Guardsmen of Samozas regime,yes.They also had a high degree of support amongst the Moskito people. But still,how can you possibly have a supreme interest in the Bush Wars of Africa and FALs and not know anything about Nicaragua? Castro supplied a huge number of Cuban FALs to the Sandinistas and then the Argentines sent many to the Contras. How old are you? I'm going to guess that you were not old enough to read a newspaper during the 1980's. |
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Posted: 1/2/2016 1:38:34 AM EDT
[#24]
The Birkinstock-wearing hippies from the US that went down there to support the Communists were called Sandalistas
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Posted: 1/2/2016 1:39:39 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How old are you? I'm going to guess that you were not old enough to read a newspaper during the 1980's. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: No,they were the bad guys. If those no good assholes hadn't killed Ché,he would have been at the party too http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02048/19850111-castro_2048526i.jpg The Contras were elements of the former Nicaraguan army....At least that is what I've been lead to believe. At risk of being a dick: There is no,absolutely no way that you could come to the conclusion that the fight between the Sandinistas and Contras was confusing,unless you were a member of The Clash or an advisor to Jimmy Carter. Samoza was a West Point graduate and very pro-US. Carter was swayed by people like Ed Koch and Andrew Young to not only not counter the support the USSR,Cuba and even Vietnam were giving the Sandinistas but to blockade arms shipped from Israel to the National Guard. If you were a Democrat circa 1979 you would see Ortega as a good guy,cut from the same patriotic progressive cloth as Mugabe and Khomeini. The Contras were formed from former National Guardsmen of Samozas regime,yes.They also had a high degree of support amongst the Moskito people. But still,how can you possibly have a supreme interest in the Bush Wars of Africa and FALs and not know anything about Nicaragua? Castro supplied a huge number of Cuban FALs to the Sandinistas and then the Argentines sent many to the Contras. How old are you? I'm going to guess that you were not old enough to read a newspaper during the 1980's.  |
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Posted: 1/2/2016 1:41:19 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Birkinstock-wearing hippies from the US that went down there to support the Communists were called Sandalistas AKA Bill D'Balsio, or whatever the fuck he calls himself. |
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Posted: 1/2/2016 1:42:21 AM EDT
[#27]
My older brother was involved in that to a limited degree. After hearing the stories all these years I am not sure that both sides weren't total shit bags.
Brother hates both sides but the ani-communist slighly less because they were anti-communist. He hates them only slighty less because of that. He hates them both in reality. |
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Posted: 1/2/2016 1:43:02 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Guess which side the Democrats and Hollywood supported? There. You have your answer. |
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Posted: 1/2/2016 1:43:17 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Honestly man the conflicts in Nicaragua and EL Salvador I am still learning about. To be honest what little I knew about it when I was younger came out of learning about Iran Contra. It's confusing because of the fact that both sides killed innocent people. There was this incident below which turned most off of the Samoza regime. As far as after the Sandanista govt took over and the conflict after that is what is confusing.  http://youtu.be/AwhCXqe6Vm0
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
No,they were the bad guys. If those no good assholes hadn't killed Ché,he would have been at the party too http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02048/19850111-castro_2048526i.jpg The Contras were elements of the former Nicaraguan army....At least that is what I've been lead to believe. At risk of being a dick: There is no,absolutely no way that you could come to the conclusion that the fight between the Sandinistas and Contras was confusing,unless you were a member of The Clash or an advisor to Jimmy Carter. Samoza was a West Point graduate and very pro-US. Carter was swayed by people like Ed Koch and Andrew Young to not only not counter the support the USSR,Cuba and even Vietnam were giving the Sandinistas but to blockade arms shipped from Israel to the National Guard. If you were a Democrat circa 1979 you would see Ortega as a good guy,cut from the same patriotic progressive cloth as Mugabe and Khomeini. The Contras were formed from former National Guardsmen of Samozas regime,yes.They also had a high degree of support amongst the Moskito people. But still,how can you possibly have a supreme interest in the Bush Wars of Africa and FALs and not know anything about Nicaragua? Castro supplied a huge number of Cuban FALs to the Sandinistas (That I knew) and then the Argentines sent many to the Contras. (That I didn't know) It's confusing because of the fact that both sides killed innocent people. There was this incident below which turned most off of the Samoza regime. As far as after the Sandanista govt took over and the conflict after that is what is confusing. http://youtu.be/AwhCXqe6Vm0
I almost posted a link to that video--and yes, in the sour political aftermath of the Vietnam conflict, such images made Jimmy Carter's policy of placing "Human Rights" front and center in the American assistance debates. When I first went to El Salvador, right wing death squads were killing about 250 people per month, and leaving their bodies alongside the highways--and continuing military assistance to El Salvador was a matter of political contention. You can't understand how America felt about paying for the wars in Central America without understanding how Americans felt about what had happened in Vietnam. It was a whole other political universe than where we are today. |
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Posted: 1/2/2016 1:43:57 AM EDT
[#30]
It's like asking who the good guys in Syria are
--------------------- All She Wants To Do Is Dance |
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Posted: 1/2/2016 1:46:14 AM EDT
[#31]
My family was ambushed and held by Sandinistas a couple of times. They also used our travel trailer for cover during at least one firefight
I wasn't born. Missionary families...  |
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Posted: 1/2/2016 1:51:57 AM EDT
[#32]
Who's the member who spent time down there training them? UXB?
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Posted: 1/2/2016 1:52:29 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who's the member who spent time down there training them? UXB? |
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Posted: 1/2/2016 2:00:55 AM EDT
[#34]
The Contras were good-ish, sort of.
The anti-Somoza forces had a very broad base. The Sandinistas were the best organized group within the coalition, and hijacked the revolution. After Somoza was deposed the Sandinista faction of the resistance went full Commie, which alienated the rest of the coalition. The anti-Sandinista resistance grew as the Sandinistas took over. Some of the anti-Somoza groups simply started fighting the Sandinistas. The US supported them, and anyone else opposed to the Sandinistas, because the Sandinistas were pro-Cuba and pro-Soviet. |
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Posted: 1/2/2016 2:12:32 AM EDT
[#35]
Don't we have a member who may or may not have been doing things down that way?
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Posted: 1/2/2016 2:24:48 AM EDT
[#36]
There are no good guys in third world shitholes.
There are guys that are willing to work with the US and those that aren't. You back those you can influence. |
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Posted: 1/2/2016 2:25:28 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
She was going to make me a pot. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Fawn? She was going to make me a pot. /thread |
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Posted: 1/2/2016 5:46:36 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
She was going to make me a pot. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Fawn? She was going to make me a pot. Animal house is easy, I'd be more impressed if you could turn this into a Monty Python thread. |
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Posted: 1/2/2016 5:55:30 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Animal house is easy, I'd be more impressed if you could turn this into a Monty Python thread. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Fawn? She was going to make me a pot. Animal house is easy, I'd be more impressed if you could turn this into a Monty Python thread. |
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Posted: 1/2/2016 5:59:56 AM EDT
[#40]
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Posted: 1/2/2016 6:00:00 AM EDT
[#41]
Another pic from Nov 2015 w/makeup: 
For someone in her 50's she's held up pretty well. Hooked up with Rob Lowe, married some Hollyweird scumbag who got her hooked on crack, OD'd in the 90's, recovered, and now is a widow working in a bookstore in West Hollywood. |
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Posted: 1/2/2016 6:18:58 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No one expects a Monty Python thread... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Fawn? She was going to make me a pot. Animal house is easy, I'd be more impressed if you could turn this into a Monty Python thread. NOBODY 'Spects the Python Inquisition!! |
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Posted: 1/2/2016 6:51:14 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well we supported one group....The Commbloc supported the other.....Guess that is about as clear as you can get. Commie supported (Bad guys) Capitalist supported (Good guys or better guys) lol |
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Posted: 1/2/2016 6:54:36 AM EDT
[#44]
There were no good guys. Look up "El Mozote." The wikipedia article on it is fairly accurate. That was done by people WE trained in the "Escuela de las Americas" here in the USA. A number of us here on this board were down there at one time or another. Cuban backed Sandinistas were bad. But so were the ones we backed. Very sad all around. Human life is not valued highly in third world countries.
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Posted: 1/2/2016 7:00:48 AM EDT
[#45]
deleted
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Posted: 1/2/2016 7:03:52 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don't we have a member who may or may not have been doing things down that way? UXB and I may or may not have been down there in the early 80's |
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Posted: 1/2/2016 7:28:56 AM EDT
[#47]
sort of like the US, arming the moderate islamic rebels in syria.
 everything we have been told, and led to believe, has been a LIE.
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Posted: 1/2/2016 7:31:53 AM EDT
[#48]
One of ARFCOM's best threads ever discussed this a few years ago, by men who were there. Allegedly.
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Posted: 1/2/2016 8:17:06 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well we supported one group....The Commbloc supported the other.....Guess that is about as clear as you can get. Commie supported (Bad guys) Capitalist supported (Good guys or better guys) Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Why do you assume there were good guys and bad guys? Actually the democrats strongly supported the sandinistas. Probably the first overt support by the democrat party, as a voting whole, in congress for a communist regime, to my knowledge. |
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Posted: 1/2/2016 8:18:43 AM EDT
[#50]
The thing that will probably affect us today is that pesky Liberation Theology. Used by CommBloc to place agents throughout Central and South America and still practiced by the current Pope. Then, mix in that an accurate history of central and south America cannot be written simply because so much of it was either secret or done with a nod and a wink. J.Edgar Hoover claimed jurisdiction of this side of the planet basically, thereby setting up collisions with CIA and that lead to Chinese firewalls that caused Intel to be missed. And so...we have a mess that is unknown in its full dimensions and will remain so because since then operations have moved on to Colombia and venazuela and Mexico, again with the nod and a wink.
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