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Posted: 12/30/2015 8:57:07 PM EDT
[#1]
Thoughts?
Too deep for GD. And I say that as one who marvels at Everest. |
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Posted: 12/30/2015 8:58:54 PM EDT
[#2]
It's very possible that he did make it, however surviving it was a bigger challenge than just summiting, so sir Edmund still gets the credit for the complete job
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Posted: 12/30/2015 9:00:44 PM EDT
[#3]
No. Would not have made the "third step" "Second Step"
In 1960, a Chinese expedition made the first verified climb of the Second Step, a 30-meter wall requiring real technical climbing skills, and four of the five who tried failed to climb it. They succeeded only by the climbing technique called courte-échelle, where men literally climb on top of each other like a circus act. Mallory was a very good climber, but Irvine was not. It's possible they could have done the same thing; but with only two of them, getting back down would have been a lot trickier. 
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Posted: 12/30/2015 9:01:02 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's very possible that he did make it, however surviving it was a bigger challenge than just summiting, so sir Edmund still gets the credit for the complete job This. I do think they made it, just not the back down part. |
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Posted: 12/30/2015 9:03:30 PM EDT
[#5]
I think they made it.
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Posted: 12/30/2015 9:05:08 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's very possible that he did make it, however surviving it was a bigger challenge than just summiting, so sir Edmund still gets the credit for the complete job Yes. My thoughts too |
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Posted: 12/30/2015 9:06:42 PM EDT
[#7]
Summit? Yes.
"Make it"? Uh, not quite. |
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Posted: 12/30/2015 9:07:00 PM EDT
[#8]
I think it's entirely possible they summited.
Who knows? That missing camera might turn up any day, with the photographic proof. |
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Posted: 12/30/2015 9:13:53 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No. Would not have made the "third step" http://www.everestpeaceproject.com/upload_images/gallery/photo/large/466.jpg https://skeptoid.com/images/everest.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
No. Would not have made the "third step" In 1960, a Chinese expedition made the first verified climb of the Second Step, a 30-meter wall requiring real technical climbing skills, and four of the five who tried failed to climb it. They succeeded only by the climbing technique called courte-échelle, where men literally climb on top of each other like a circus act. Mallory was a very good climber, but Irvine was not. It's possible they could have done the same thing; but with only two of them, getting back down would have been a lot trickier. http://www.everestpeaceproject.com/upload_images/gallery/photo/large/466.jpg https://skeptoid.com/images/everest.jpg Nice pics |
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Posted: 12/30/2015 9:19:12 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Guys, Too much to type, but I believe there's evidence that they did reach the summit in June 1924. **One eye witness account from base camp,ma guy named Odell, has the climbers moving at a brisk pace at roughly noon time on the "Second Step". If accurate, this account would put them at a good pace to summit by roughly 5:30pm. Some have disputed the accuracy of this account. **Notes recovered off of Mallory's body indicate that they had three O2 bottles each when they set out that morning. **Mallory's goggles were found stowed inside his jacket....indicating that they died after the sun set...most likely on their way back down. **The picture of Mallory's wife (which he carried solely for the purpose of placing it at the summit) was not in his pockets. During a Chinese expedition in 1975, a climber reported seeing a body that, due to the description of the clothing, is widely believed to be Mallory's climbing partner, Sandy Irvine. Irvine was carrying a Kodak camera. Kodak engineers say that the film may still be good. If his body is ever recovered and that film is successfully developed, we may finally know. Thoughts? Irrelevant if you don't make it back down. I do not think they made it to top either. |
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Posted: 12/30/2015 9:25:06 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Irrelevant if you don't make it back down. I do not think they made it to top either. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Guys, Too much to type, but I believe there's evidence that they did reach the summit in June 1924. **One eye witness account from base camp,ma guy named Odell, has the climbers moving at a brisk pace at roughly noon time on the "Second Step". If accurate, this account would put them at a good pace to summit by roughly 5:30pm. Some have disputed the accuracy of this account. **Notes recovered off of Mallory's body indicate that they had three O2 bottles each when they set out that morning. **Mallory's goggles were found stowed inside his jacket....indicating that they died after the sun set...most likely on their way back down. **The picture of Mallory's wife (which he carried solely for the purpose of placing it at the summit) was not in his pockets. During a Chinese expedition in 1975, a climber reported seeing a body that, due to the description of the clothing, is widely believed to be Mallory's climbing partner, Sandy Irvine. Irvine was carrying a Kodak camera. Kodak engineers say that the film may still be good. If his body is ever recovered and that film is successfully developed, we may finally know. Thoughts? Irrelevant if you don't make it back down. I do not think they made it to top either. Irrelevant? That seems a bit harsh. Living to tell the tale is the most important thing.....however, I still want those guys to get the recognition if proof should ever emerge someday. It would just mean adding an asterisk to the record book. First summit vs first summit and lived to have a beer at base camp. |
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Posted: 12/30/2015 9:31:11 PM EDT
[#12]
No participation ribbons in mountain climbing.
You either make it to the top and back down, or you failed. |
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Posted: 12/30/2015 9:34:13 PM EDT
[#13]
Even if they did, it doesn't count if you don't make it back down.
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Posted: 12/30/2015 9:43:19 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Even if they did, it doesn't count if you don't make it back down. Just because someone falls from 120,000 feet with a parachute and dies on impact doesnt mean it was a successful jump and that person will not receive credit for anything, |
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Posted: 12/30/2015 9:52:58 PM EDT
[#15]
Everest threads are always interesting...
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Posted: 12/30/2015 10:00:03 PM EDT
[#16]
I want to believe they made it.
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Posted: 12/30/2015 10:24:35 PM EDT
[#17]
Doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things.
A lot of people could have gone up if they didn't care about coming back down. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 12/30/2015 10:31:02 PM EDT
[#18]
I do know that Aleister Crowley did not summit K2, despite being on the mountain a long long time
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Posted: 12/30/2015 10:43:03 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No. Would not have made the "third step" http://www.everestpeaceproject.com/upload_images/gallery/photo/large/466.jpg https://skeptoid.com/images/everest.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
No. Would not have made the "third step" In 1960, a Chinese expedition made the first verified climb of the Second Step, a 30-meter wall requiring real technical climbing skills, and four of the five who tried failed to climb it. They succeeded only by the climbing technique called courte-échelle, where men literally climb on top of each other like a circus act. Mallory was a very good climber, but Irvine was not. It's possible they could have done the same thing; but with only two of them, getting back down would have been a lot trickier. http://www.everestpeaceproject.com/upload_images/gallery/photo/large/466.jpg https://skeptoid.com/images/everest.jpg Noel Odell saw them on top of the second step. The third step is easier than the second. |
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Posted: 12/30/2015 10:46:23 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No participation ribbons in mountain climbing. You either make it to the top and back down, or you failed. This. Unless you build a house and live up there, climbing a mountain involves both up, and down. |
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Posted: 12/30/2015 10:50:33 PM EDT
[#21]
I doubt they made it. In any case the summit is only half-way.
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Posted: 12/30/2015 10:52:21 PM EDT
[#22]
They never made it to the top.
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Posted: 12/30/2015 10:55:50 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted:
Guys, Too much to type, but I believe there's evidence that they did reach the summit in June 1924. **One eye witness account from base camp,ma guy named Odell, has the climbers moving at a brisk pace at roughly noon time on the "Second Step". If accurate, this account would put them at a good pace to summit by roughly 5:30pm. Some have disputed the accuracy of this account. **Notes recovered off of Mallory's body indicate that they had three O2 bottles each when they set out that morning. **Mallory's goggles were found stowed inside his jacket....indicating that they died after the sun set...most likely on their way back down. **The picture of Mallory's wife (which he carried solely for the purpose of placing it at the summit) was not in his pockets. During a Chinese expedition in 1975, a climber reported seeing a body that, due to the description of the clothing, is widely believed to be Mallory's climbing partner, Sandy Irvine. Irvine was carrying a Kodak camera. Kodak engineers say that the film may still be good. If his body is ever recovered and that film is successfully developed, we may finally know. Thoughts? I would like to think they did make it. |
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Posted: 12/30/2015 10:56:44 PM EDT
[#24]
A lengthy but interesting article on the subject.
http://www.outsideonline.com/1909046/ghosts-everest |
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Posted: 12/30/2015 10:57:08 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I want to believe they made it. Yup. |
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Posted: 12/30/2015 11:01:57 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I want to believe they made it. |
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Posted: 12/30/2015 11:13:23 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Noel Odell saw them on top of the second step. The third step is easier than the second. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
No. Would not have made the "third step" In 1960, a Chinese expedition made the first verified climb of the Second Step, a 30-meter wall requiring real technical climbing skills, and four of the five who tried failed to climb it. They succeeded only by the climbing technique called courte-échelle, where men literally climb on top of each other like a circus act. Mallory was a very good climber, but Irvine was not. It's possible they could have done the same thing; but with only two of them, getting back down would have been a lot trickier. http://www.everestpeaceproject.com/upload_images/gallery/photo/large/466.jpg https://skeptoid.com/images/everest.jpg Noel Odell saw them on top of the second step. The third step is easier than the second. His claim to seeing a dot get over the second step, in 5 minutes no less, is very much disputed, even by himself. It would be nice if they made it, but I don't think they did. Didn't photos pre-climb show him with 2 pairs of goggles? |
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Posted: 12/30/2015 11:20:49 PM EDT
[#28]
You have to wonder. Do they just leave all the old ropes and ladders all over the mountain or does someone go up and clean them off every now and then? You know pollution and litter and junk
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Posted: 12/30/2015 11:27:59 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You have to wonder. Do they just leave all the old ropes and ladders all over the mountain or does someone go up and clean them off every now and then? You know pollution and litter and junk
http://www.everestpeaceproject.com/upload_images/gallery/photo/large/466.jpg The mountain destroys the equipment regularly, the sherpas go up early to fix the equipment before their clients set out, but there isn't enough oxygen in the tanks to do litter clean up. Kharn Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 12/30/2015 11:30:59 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Irrelevant? That seems a bit harsh. Living to tell the tale is the most important thing.....however, I still want those guys to get the recognition if proof should ever emerge someday. It would just mean adding an asterisk to the record book. First summit vs first summit and lived to have a beer at base camp. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Guys, Too much to type, but I believe there's evidence that they did reach the summit in June 1924. **One eye witness account from base camp,ma guy named Odell, has the climbers moving at a brisk pace at roughly noon time on the "Second Step". If accurate, this account would put them at a good pace to summit by roughly 5:30pm. Some have disputed the accuracy of this account. **Notes recovered off of Mallory's body indicate that they had three O2 bottles each when they set out that morning. **Mallory's goggles were found stowed inside his jacket....indicating that they died after the sun set...most likely on their way back down. **The picture of Mallory's wife (which he carried solely for the purpose of placing it at the summit) was not in his pockets. During a Chinese expedition in 1975, a climber reported seeing a body that, due to the description of the clothing, is widely believed to be Mallory's climbing partner, Sandy Irvine. Irvine was carrying a Kodak camera. Kodak engineers say that the film may still be good. If his body is ever recovered and that film is successfully developed, we may finally know. Thoughts? Irrelevant if you don't make it back down. I do not think they made it to top either. Irrelevant? That seems a bit harsh. Living to tell the tale is the most important thing.....however, I still want those guys to get the recognition if proof should ever emerge someday. It would just mean adding an asterisk to the record book. First summit vs first summit and lived to have a beer at base camp. Nope. Just my opinion but a one way mission doesn't count. What's the point if you don't make it back down? |
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Posted: 12/30/2015 11:31:36 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The mountain destroys the equipment regularly, the sherpas go up early to fix the equipment before their clients set out, but there isn't enough oxygen in the tanks to do litter clean up. Kharn Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You have to wonder. Do they just leave all the old ropes and ladders all over the mountain or does someone go up and clean them off every now and then? You know pollution and litter and junk
http://www.everestpeaceproject.com/upload_images/gallery/photo/large/466.jpg The mountain destroys the equipment regularly, the sherpas go up early to fix the equipment before their clients set out, but there isn't enough oxygen in the tanks to do litter clean up. Kharn Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile I would think the ladders survive a while. Ropes, not so much. |
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Posted: 12/30/2015 11:39:53 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A lengthy but interesting article on the subject. http://www.outsideonline.com/1909046/ghosts-everest That was a good read. Thanks. |
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Posted: 12/30/2015 11:48:07 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You have to wonder. Do they just leave all the old ropes and ladders all over the mountain or does someone go up and clean them off every now and then? You know pollution and litter and junk
http://www.everestpeaceproject.com/upload_images/gallery/photo/large/466.jpg Those ladders are how one gets up that "Second Step" since the Chinese team put the first made it up and put the first ladders there in 1960. Few, if any have made it up that without the ladders. Mallory would not have made it with what he had, as much as I'd like that to be the case. Where there's little air, it's all you can do to lift yourself in a most basic way. It's all about O2, and the lack thereof. |
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Posted: 12/30/2015 11:56:54 PM EDT
[#34]
One simply has no strength at those altitudes, even with O2 bottles.
That's why no one can get all those dead bodies off of Everest: http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20151008-the-tragic-story-of-mt-everests-most-famous-dead-body http://imgur.com/gallery/4UJj0 So making up the 2nd Step without those ladders is impossible for most. |
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Posted: 12/31/2015 12:05:53 AM EDT
[#35]
I do. Conrad Anker free climbed the second step, after taking down the ladder. Then objectively rated the second step, which fell at the top Mallorys ability. Mallory had climbed the same rating, just way lower altitude. Anker also climb some routes with the period clothing, noting it was lighter and warmer than he expected. He also pointed out the hobnail boots would be beneficial in the yellowband, where modern crampons are dicey. However they had a lot less grip in the ice than crampons. Initially Anker said no way Mallory made it. A few years later, after free climbing the 2nd step, and wearing the period clothing. He said his opinion had changed, he believes its more likely he made it, and fell on the way back down.
Also Mallorys camera was missing. If they locate Sandy, and he has it. Its a pretty good sign that he handed it to him to take a summit pic of Mallory. |
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Posted: 12/31/2015 12:18:33 AM EDT
[#36]
Ok.....
Let me turn the tables a bit on you "doesn't count" guys. I completely understand your point about a successful climb. Completely. If the Apollo 11 astronauts had died on the return trip, would that negate everything they did before they died? Would they not be the first men to walk on the moon because they didn't come home alive? Also, just prior to Lindbergh completing his successful trans Atlantic flight, two Frenchmen attempted the same thing in the opposite direction. In rural Maine, many "ear witnesses" reported hearing an airplane above the overcast on the day of their scheduled arrival. (Airplanes were like Bigfoot sightings back then) It is widely believed that they crashed in the woods in Maine. Over the years, accounts of aircraft wreckage have surfaced....an aluminum engine block in the middle of nowhere, etc. Some have said that if that engine block can ever be found, it would change history. If those historians believe that, then why can't we give credit to other ill fated missions? Just a thought. |
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Posted: 12/31/2015 12:21:27 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A lengthy but interesting article on the subject. http://www.outsideonline.com/1909046/ghosts-everest Yes. Coincidentally, this is the article that I reread today......and it sparked this thread. |
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Posted: 12/31/2015 12:25:18 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ok..... Let me turn the tables a bit on you "doesn't count" guys. I completely understand your point about a successful climb. Completely. If the Apollo 11 astronauts had died on the return trip, would that negate everything they did before they died? Would they not be the first men to walk on the moon because they didn't come home alive? Also, just prior to Lindbergh completing his successful trans Atlantic flight, two Frenchmen attempted the same thing in the opposite direction. In rural Maine, many "ear witnesses" reported hearing an airplane above the overcast on the day of their scheduled arrival. (Airplanes were like Bigfoot sightings back then) It is widely believed that they crashed in the woods in Maine. Over the years, accounts of aircraft wreckage have surfaced....an aluminum engine block in the middle of nowhere, etc. Some have said that if that engine block can ever be found, it would change history. If those historians believe that, then why can't we give credit to other ill fated missions? Just a thought. Kennedy said the goal was to send a man to the Moon and return him safely to the Earth before the decade was out. Apollo 12 flew in December 1969, if Apollo 11 had failed there was still one more chance. |
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Posted: 12/31/2015 12:28:23 AM EDT
[#39]
I just don't think they made it. Irvine was just not in the same class as Mallory as a climber. Failed to summit, descent in darkness, Irvine takes a spill and they are gone. . .
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Posted: 12/31/2015 12:29:43 AM EDT
[#40]
Do I care? No, not a bit.
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Posted: 12/31/2015 12:30:57 AM EDT
[#41]
They never made it.
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Posted: 12/31/2015 12:34:01 AM EDT
[#42]
How hard can it be to locate Sandy?
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Posted: 12/31/2015 12:43:10 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Kennedy said the goal was to send a man to the Moon and return him safely to the Earth before the decade was out. Apollo 12 flew in December 1969, if Apollo 11 had failed there was still one more chance. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Ok..... Let me turn the tables a bit on you "doesn't count" guys. I completely understand your point about a successful climb. Completely. If the Apollo 11 astronauts had died on the return trip, would that negate everything they did before they died? Would they not be the first men to walk on the moon because they didn't come home alive? Also, just prior to Lindbergh completing his successful trans Atlantic flight, two Frenchmen attempted the same thing in the opposite direction. In rural Maine, many "ear witnesses" reported hearing an airplane above the overcast on the day of their scheduled arrival. (Airplanes were like Bigfoot sightings back then) It is widely believed that they crashed in the woods in Maine. Over the years, accounts of aircraft wreckage have surfaced....an aluminum engine block in the middle of nowhere, etc. Some have said that if that engine block can ever be found, it would change history. If those historians believe that, then why can't we give credit to other ill fated missions? Just a thought. Kennedy said the goal was to send a man to the Moon and return him safely to the Earth before the decade was out. Apollo 12 flew in December 1969, if Apollo 11 had failed there was still one more chance. Thank you for your reply, but don't duck the question! (You know it would still count) 
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Posted: 12/31/2015 12:46:15 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How hard can it be to locate Sandy? There's a guy who claims he sees a shape on satellite images of Everest that he believes is Irvine. Can't raise the cash for a fly over for better pics...or the big cash for a salvage mission. |
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Posted: 12/31/2015 12:46:23 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think they made it. I always have as well. But like making for the poles, it only counts if you get back. |
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Posted: 12/31/2015 12:49:59 AM EDT
[#46]
I say no. I think I remember reading that Mallory was spotted well beneath the summit, for a brief moment, with not enough time to get there.
I am by no means any kind of authority, but I believe I read it in either Krakauers book , Brashears book , or Weathers book. These threads are always fun for me, as a guy with zero interest in climbing, but I read the books in one sitting. For some reason, I can't put the book down till it's done. |
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Posted: 12/31/2015 12:50:43 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I always have as well. But like making for the poles, it only counts if you get back. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I think they made it. I always have as well. But like making for the poles, it only counts if you get back. Scott got a participation trophy. |
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Posted: 12/31/2015 12:52:09 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I say no. I think I remember reading that Mallory was spotted well beneath the summit, for a brief moment, with not enough time to get there. I am by no means any kind of authority, but I believe I read it in either Krakauers book , Brashears book , or Weathers book. These threads are always fun for me, as a guy with zero interest in climbing, but I read the books in one sitting. For some reason, I can't put the book down till it's done. Yes. The link above somewhere in this thread has the exact eye witness testimony you're referring to. However, it's more promising than you think........if it's to be believed. |
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Posted: 12/31/2015 12:54:49 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I say no. I think I remember reading that Mallory was spotted well beneath the summit, for a brief moment, with not enough time to get there. I am by no means any kind of authority, but I believe I read it in either Krakauers book , Brashears book , or Weathers book. These threads are always fun for me, as a guy with zero interest in climbing, but I read the books in one sitting. For some reason, I can't put the book down till it's done. That was Odell. The quibble is whether he spotted them at the top of the first or second step. If the first, the question of the second remains open. If he saw them on the top of the second step, and he seemed to feel like they were (depending on when he was asked), they almost certainly made the summit. |
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Posted: 12/31/2015 12:55:00 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes. The link above somewhere in this thread has the exact eye witness testimony you're referring to. However, it's more promising than you think........if it's to be believed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I say no. I think I remember reading that Mallory was spotted well beneath the summit, for a brief moment, with not enough time to get there. I am by no means any kind of authority, but I believe I read it in either Krakauers book , Brashears book , or Weathers book. These threads are always fun for me, as a guy with zero interest in climbing, but I read the books in one sitting. For some reason, I can't put the book down till it's done. Yes. The link above somewhere in this thread has the exact eye witness testimony you're referring to. However, it's more promising than you think........if it's to be believed. Cool, I didn't click the link. (But I will tomorrow) !
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