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Posted: 12/30/2015 7:52:19 AM EDT
Can't sleep, watching The Patriot again.
What if 5 grunts are defending Aunt Charlotte's plantation home against 50 of His Majesty's finest Dragoon horsemen? Who wins? England brings: Any and all equipment a force of 50 Dragoons would have in the time of the American Revolution. 'Merica brings: -M4s/M16s and M9s only, one DMR any kind. Say 6 standard mags on each guy. -No MGs, SAWs, frags, claymores, AT4s, mortars, close air support, etc. -No radios or comms of any kind besides shouting at each other. -No nvgs or thermals. -No kevlar or sapi plates. -Fire extinguishers 
Can our troops defend the plantation and defeat all the cavalry? Support your answer. |
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Posted: 12/30/2015 7:53:27 AM EDT
[#1]
Yes.
I support my answer with WW1 and the Boer War and god damned common sense. |
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Posted: 12/30/2015 7:56:06 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
Can't sleep, watching The Patriot again. What if 5 grunts are defending Aunt Charlotte's plantation home against 50 of His Majesty's finest Dragoon horsemen? Who wins? England brings: Any and all equipment a force of 50 Dragoons would have in the time of the American Revolution. 'Merica brings: -M4s/M16s and M9s only, one DMR any kind. Say 6 standard mags on each guy. -No MGs, SAWs, frags, claymores, AT4s, mortars, close air support, etc. -No radios or comms of any kind besides shouting at each other. -No nvgs or thermals. -No kevlar or sapi plates. -Fire extinguishers
Can our troops defend the plantation and defeat all the cavalry? Support your answer. 7s a combat load, you fail. Dragoons win. |
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Posted: 12/30/2015 7:57:57 AM EDT
[#3]
US wins when the Brits stop for a "brew-up".
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Posted: 12/30/2015 7:58:08 AM EDT
[#4]
5 grunts w/ 180 rounds of 5.56 each? (Not even counting pistol ammo)
vs. 50 guys with muskets or blunderbusses? 
The grunts win. No question about it. |
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Posted: 12/30/2015 8:00:24 AM EDT
[#5]
Spaceman Spiff crashes on the plantation, pursued by a horde of vile Zorgs, who wipe out both the dragoons and the grunts in the ensuing violence.
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Posted: 12/30/2015 8:01:02 AM EDT
[#6]
Depends. After a cup of Earl Grey each Dragoon is worth 2 regular men
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Posted: 12/30/2015 8:03:26 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Spaceman Spiff crashes on the plantation, pursued by a horde of vile Zorgs, who wipe out both the dragons and the grunts in the ensuing violence. Man, I didn't even think about Spaceman Spiff 
I'm going to go with this - it's just good common sense. |
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Posted: 12/30/2015 8:04:14 AM EDT
[#8]
Even the shittiest shot could nail a horse @500m, walking cavalry aint too effective
They won't even get within musket range before they're all dead |
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Posted: 12/30/2015 8:05:55 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Even the shittiest shot could nail a horse @500m, walking cavalry aint too effective They won't even get within musket range before they're all dead Just to be pedantic for a moment, dragoons aren't really cavalry. |
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Posted: 12/30/2015 8:08:23 AM EDT
[#10]
I would assume that Aunt Charlotte's plantation home would offer some positions of cover… possibly even a rooftop position…
With that being the case I’d wager that as few as 2 maybe even 1 well trained modern rifleman could emerge victorious in the a battle with 50 18th century British Dragoons. |
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Posted: 12/30/2015 8:08:47 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Even the shittiest shot could nail a horse @500m, walking cavalry aint too effective They won't even get within musket range before they're all dead Not sure there's even 100m of open space approaching Aunt Charlotte's plantation home. Oh and it's nighttime. Is it a close fight, or does technology and 240 years of refining warfare tear the redcoats asunder? |
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Posted: 12/30/2015 8:10:48 AM EDT
[#12]
You'd really only have to kill a few at what to them would seem to be inhumanly long range before the rest broke and ran.
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Posted: 12/30/2015 8:11:24 AM EDT
[#13]
The only advantage the dragoons have is mobility, although horses can also be surprisingly quiet in the bush (something the Rhodesians and Portuguese used to their advantage in modern Africa). Given that mounted charges have in the 20th century routed troops possessing repeating rifles and machine guns, I would imagine that if the terrain allows for their movements to be masked until the dragoons are in close enough proximity that the dragoons might well have a chance. If they have to advance a good distance in the open then they are almost certainly screwed. If they fought dismounted, they would almost certainly lose as well.
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Posted: 12/30/2015 8:13:23 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You'd really only have to kill a few at what to them would seem to be inhumanly long range before the rest broke and ran. Depends on their appreciation of the relative force levels. Drop a few of them beyond musket range, and they might just assume the plantation is defended by more than five people armed with rifles. |
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Posted: 12/30/2015 8:14:31 AM EDT
[#15]
Need pictures of Aunt Charlotte to determine if she should be defended.
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Posted: 12/30/2015 8:16:57 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Need pictures of Aunt Charlotte to determine if she should be defended. 
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Posted: 12/30/2015 8:17:47 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not sure there's even 100m of open space approaching Aunt Charlotte's plantation home. Oh and it's nighttime. Is it a close fight, or does technology and 240 years of refining warfare tear the redcoats asunder? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Even the shittiest shot could nail a horse @500m, walking cavalry aint too effective They won't even get within musket range before they're all dead Not sure there's even 100m of open space approaching Aunt Charlotte's plantation home. Oh and it's nighttime. Is it a close fight, or does technology and 240 years of refining warfare tear the redcoats asunder? You're changing the parameters of the problem. Night time, no night vision, no armor, and no ability to utilize the range advantage? Yeah, the chap in charge of the dragoons may just decide that whatever the initial importance of the plantation as an objective is meaningless given the apparent rate of fire of what the defenders are employing, restrict the bulk of his remaining men to containing the place, and send a couple chaps off to get a whole mess of friends to storm the place. |
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Posted: 12/30/2015 8:18:40 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You're changing the parameters of the problem. Night time, no night vision, no armor, and no ability to utilize the range advantage? Yeah, the chap in charge of the dragoons may just decide that whatever the initial importance of the plantation as an objective is meaningless given the apparent rate of fire of what the defenders are employing, restrict the bulk of his remaining men to containing the place, and send a couple chaps off to get a whole mess of friends to storm the place. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Even the shittiest shot could nail a horse @500m, walking cavalry aint too effective They won't even get within musket range before they're all dead Not sure there's even 100m of open space approaching Aunt Charlotte's plantation home. Oh and it's nighttime. Is it a close fight, or does technology and 240 years of refining warfare tear the redcoats asunder? You're changing the parameters of the problem. Night time, no night vision, no armor, and no ability to utilize the range advantage? Yeah, the chap in charge of the dragoons may just decide that whatever the initial importance of the plantation as an objective is meaningless given the apparent rate of fire of what the defenders are employing, restrict the bulk of his remaining men to containing the place, and send a couple chaps off to get a whole mess of friends to storm the place. Yeah my bad. I was watching that scene where the Dragoons approach at night and the kid is on watch. I should have specified. |
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Posted: 12/30/2015 8:19:01 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes. I support my answer with WW1 and the Boer War and god damned common sense. Now what a damn minute! You guys here @ AR15.com says we can't use common sense, that it was last seen in the 80's. |
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Posted: 12/30/2015 8:21:53 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not sure there's even 100m of open space approaching Aunt Charlotte's plantation home. Oh and it's nighttime. Is it a close fight, or does technology and 240 years of refining warfare tear the redcoats asunder? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Even the shittiest shot could nail a horse @500m, walking cavalry aint too effective They won't even get within musket range before they're all dead Not sure there's even 100m of open space approaching Aunt Charlotte's plantation home. Oh and it's nighttime. Is it a close fight, or does technology and 240 years of refining warfare tear the redcoats asunder? Five drunken heavy sixes covered in cheetos dust and shame could win in the scenario you have designed. |
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Posted: 12/30/2015 8:23:47 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
5 grunts w/ 180 rounds of 5.56 each? (Not even counting pistol ammo) vs. 50 guys with muskets or blunderbusses?
The grunts win. No question about it. This. Maximum effective range of muskets are like 100-200 yards and that's a stretch. Modern rifles would pick them off at 400 yards till they run away. This is no contest. ETA: Even with added parameters, grunts still win. After seeing full auto fire coming from the defenders position. The dragoons haul ass out of there after taking some losses. |
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Posted: 12/30/2015 8:23:57 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes. I support my answer with WW1 and the Boer War and god damned common sense. you obviously don't know what the hell you are talking about. history is dumb and proves nothing. 50 well trained musketeers could fire 150 shots a minute. that's a lot of ~50 caliber shots at almost 1000 pfs! compared to your pathetic little .223 bullets going twice as fast with each guy able to deliver a mere ~100 rounds per minute (of those tine bullets) you, sir, are clearly out of your lane here. 
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Posted: 12/30/2015 8:24:28 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Need pictures of Aunt Charlotte to determine if she should be defended. http://i.imgur.com/lMdCNvm.jpg Somethings (2) are worth defending |
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Posted: 12/30/2015 8:29:34 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You're changing the parameters of the problem. Night time, no night vision, no armor, and no ability to utilize the range advantage? Yeah, the chap in charge of the dragoons may just decide that whatever the initial importance of the plantation as an objective is meaningless given the apparent rate of fire of what the defenders are employing, restrict the bulk of his remaining men to containing the place, and send a couple chaps off to get a whole mess of friends to storm the place. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Even the shittiest shot could nail a horse @500m, walking cavalry aint too effective They won't even get within musket range before they're all dead Not sure there's even 100m of open space approaching Aunt Charlotte's plantation home. Oh and it's nighttime. Is it a close fight, or does technology and 240 years of refining warfare tear the redcoats asunder? You're changing the parameters of the problem. Night time, no night vision, no armor, and no ability to utilize the range advantage? Yeah, the chap in charge of the dragoons may just decide that whatever the initial importance of the plantation as an objective is meaningless given the apparent rate of fire of what the defenders are employing, restrict the bulk of his remaining men to containing the place, and send a couple chaps off to get a whole mess of friends to storm the place. I missed the reference to the plantation from The Patriot. If they come up on the place suddenly like that they could very well overwhelm the defenders, provided that they are all outside. If they are not, good luck to them trying to clear them out (then again, they could just fire the house). |
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Posted: 12/30/2015 8:30:53 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Five drunken heavy sixes covered in cheetos dust and shame could win in the scenario you have designed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Even the shittiest shot could nail a horse @500m, walking cavalry aint too effective They won't even get within musket range before they're all dead Not sure there's even 100m of open space approaching Aunt Charlotte's plantation home. Oh and it's nighttime. Is it a close fight, or does technology and 240 years of refining warfare tear the redcoats asunder? Five drunken heavy sixes covered in cheetos dust and shame could win in the scenario you have designed. Wait one fucking minute.... .... What about the dried sticky sheen of spilled mountain dew that has dried on my bare cheeto dust covered belly? |
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Posted: 12/30/2015 8:38:43 AM EDT
[#26]
5 grunts easily.
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Posted: 12/30/2015 8:52:17 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I missed the reference to the plantation from The Patriot. If they come up on the place suddenly like that they could very well overwhelm the defenders, provided that they are all outside. If they are not, good luck to them trying to clear them out (then again, they could just fire the house). Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Even the shittiest shot could nail a horse @500m, walking cavalry aint too effective They won't even get within musket range before they're all dead Not sure there's even 100m of open space approaching Aunt Charlotte's plantation home. Oh and it's nighttime. Is it a close fight, or does technology and 240 years of refining warfare tear the redcoats asunder? You're changing the parameters of the problem. Night time, no night vision, no armor, and no ability to utilize the range advantage? Yeah, the chap in charge of the dragoons may just decide that whatever the initial importance of the plantation as an objective is meaningless given the apparent rate of fire of what the defenders are employing, restrict the bulk of his remaining men to containing the place, and send a couple chaps off to get a whole mess of friends to storm the place. I missed the reference to the plantation from The Patriot. If they come up on the place suddenly like that they could very well overwhelm the defenders, provided that they are all outside. If they are not, good luck to them trying to clear them out (then again, they could just fire the house). Eh, if the rate of fire of the defenders is discovered, I think firing the house is going to be right out. I think the number of acceptable losses would go up (and the number of reinforcements requested,) as the desire to secure control of whatever the defenders were using would be quite high. |
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Posted: 12/30/2015 8:58:28 AM EDT
[#28]
A full auto burst overhead and the dragoons hightail it the fuck out of there.
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Posted: 12/30/2015 9:02:39 AM EDT
[#29]
Are the grunts allowed to draw cocks on the walls of the plantation shithouse? if yes- Morale is high, grunts win. If no - E=4 Mafia sits this one out, Dragoons draw 18th century grafitti on shithouse walls
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Posted: 12/30/2015 9:02:58 AM EDT
[#30]
Not a proper T/E for the American Infantry.
If there are four, there would be a SAW and M203 and NVG/IR lasers all around. Make it a WWII fire team, if you want them neutered. 
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Posted: 12/30/2015 9:05:57 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Need pictures of Aunt Charlotte to determine if she should be defended. http://i.imgur.com/lMdCNvm.jpg Nice! I'd defend the shit out of her! |
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Posted: 12/30/2015 9:11:29 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Spaceman Spiff crashes on the plantation, pursued by a horde of vile Zorgs, who wipe out both the dragoons and the grunts in the ensuing violence. |
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Posted: 12/30/2015 9:27:08 AM EDT
[#33]
Unless the dragoons have artillery, they all die. Defenders take zero casualties.
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Posted: 12/30/2015 9:30:32 AM EDT
[#34]
Army wouldn't even use half of their ammo.
Do the Brits know what they are up against, and adjust their tactics, or just swoop in and get ground up like hamburger? |
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Posted: 12/30/2015 9:31:01 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not a proper T/E for the American Infantry. If there are four, there would be a SAW and M203 and NVG/IR lasers all around. Make it a WWII fire team, if you want them neutered. Yeah, I'm going with the guys who fought and killed the Japs at night. Again, all dragoons dead and zero friendly casualties. |
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Posted: 12/30/2015 9:31:19 AM EDT
[#36]
How about one guy with an ar15 and 8 mags?
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Posted: 12/30/2015 9:32:31 AM EDT
[#37]
The local Pub wins!
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Posted: 12/30/2015 9:33:43 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How about one guy with an ar15 and 8 mags? Maybe your standard 3 gunner that shoots better than mil/le could do it by himself. |
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Posted: 12/30/2015 9:36:24 AM EDT
[#39]
But what are the rules of engagement?
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Posted: 12/30/2015 9:36:49 AM EDT
[#40]
I did not see any time limit in OP's engagement parameters for this.
After initial contact could the Dragoons regroup then........ Surround and starve them out. Dig narrow trenches till close range then toss fire on structure. Adapt to siege tactics utilizing nearby timber for source material. |
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Posted: 12/30/2015 9:42:46 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But what are the rules of engagement? England: Destroy the house, kill all occupants with extreme prejudice. 'Merica: Destroy enemy combatants with extreme prejudice. |
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Posted: 12/30/2015 9:43:09 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How about one guy with an ar15 and 8 mags? Gimme 8 surefire 60's and I'll do it. |
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Posted: 12/30/2015 9:44:12 AM EDT
[#43]
season 1 episode 3 of Revolution featured one bolt action dmr with a bag of ammo devastating a musket militia group
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Posted: 12/30/2015 9:52:21 AM EDT
[#44]
Dragoons win, the grunts are stuck in a SHARP class.
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Posted: 12/30/2015 9:56:47 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You'd really only have to kill a few at what to them would seem to be inhumanly long range before the rest broke and ran. This. Plus with the volume of fire, they'd think there was a battalion guarding the house, not five guys. |
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Posted: 12/30/2015 10:01:20 AM EDT
[#46]
Fire extinguisher to create a smoke screen and run like hell cuz I don't know what round can take down horses and pierce the sabers
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Posted: 12/30/2015 10:05:47 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Unless the dragoons have artillery, they all die. Defenders take zero casualties. Even then, not necessarily. Field Artillery tactics and technology started changing drastically once modern rifles came about, because rifleman could often engage artillery crews at the gun's effective range, especially for a point target and a light gun. But that process really got going over a hundred years later. |
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Posted: 12/30/2015 10:09:56 AM EDT
[#48]
If the grunts are on their toes and engage His Majesty's Dragoons before they reach the house, no problem, turkey shoot.
If they are sampling the wine cellar and get surprised, all bets are off. 
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Posted: 12/30/2015 10:11:15 AM EDT
[#49]
A more interesting discussion would be the reverse. 50 dug in soldiers armed with muskets vs a small group of modern equipped soldiers(just M4s) attacking.
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Posted: 12/30/2015 10:13:05 AM EDT
[#50]
More interesting question...
Could those same 5 grunts with the same load out have changed the outcome of the Battle of the Alamo? Assuming they were fighting alongside the existing defenders. |
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