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Posted: 9/3/2015 5:49:05 PM EDT
[#1]
Soot is from inefficient combustion.
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Posted: 9/3/2015 5:52:35 PM EDT
[#2]
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Soot is from inefficient combustion. True. But things like rubbing alcohol produce little to no soot in an open air atmosphere, whereas acetylene produces gobs.. I'm thinking its something to do with hydrocarbons and its probably something a 7th grade student could answer for me because I didn't pay enough attention in science class 
Maybe Keith J will come along and fix me! |
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Posted: 9/3/2015 5:58:34 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
True. But things like rubbing alcohol produce little to no soot in an open air atmosphere, whereas acetylene produces gobs.. I'm thinking its something to do with hydrocarbons and its probably something a 7th grade student could answer for me because I didn't pay enough attention in science class
Maybe Keith J will come along and fix me! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Soot is from inefficient combustion. True. But things like rubbing alcohol produce little to no soot in an open air atmosphere, whereas acetylene produces gobs.. I'm thinking its something to do with hydrocarbons and its probably something a 7th grade student could answer for me because I didn't pay enough attention in science class
Maybe Keith J will come along and fix me! FPNI.. Acetylene produces soot due to too much fuel and not enough oxygen. When you increase the oxy input to the combustion process, it produces less and less. When it reaches the stoichiometric mixture it is the most efficient. |
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Posted: 9/3/2015 6:01:46 PM EDT
[#4]
Stoichiometric mixture.
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Posted: 9/3/2015 6:03:42 PM EDT
[#5]
The higher the molecular weight a hydrocarbon the more soot it will produce. Soot comes from the chemistry in the fire turning hydrocarbons into high molecular weight polyaromatics. The larger the building blocks the smaller the flame height and needed to produce soot because fewer steps are needed to produce it.
<---- Chemist who burns shit for a living. |
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Posted: 9/3/2015 6:06:54 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: FPNI.. Acetylene produces soot due to too much fuel and not enough oxygen. When you increase the oxy input to the combustion process, it produces less and less. When it reaches the stoichiometric mixture it is the most efficient. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Soot is from inefficient combustion. True. But things like rubbing alcohol produce little to no soot in an open air atmosphere, whereas acetylene produces gobs.. I'm thinking its something to do with hydrocarbons and its probably something a 7th grade student could answer for me because I didn't pay enough attention in science class Maybe Keith J will come along and fix me! FPNI.. Acetylene produces soot due to too much fuel and not enough oxygen. When you increase the oxy input to the combustion process, it produces less and less. When it reaches the stoichiometric mixture it is the most efficient.  Even though the fire is poor in atmospheric oxygen and the flames are 15ft high almost no soot is produced because the molecule has a low molecular weight and a relatively high oxygen to carbon ratio. |
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Posted: 9/3/2015 6:13:22 PM EDT
[#7]
Also, acetylene is an oddball. It produces soot well even though it has a very low molecular weight. It has a high energy density because it is triple bonded. The polyaromatic hydrocarbons needed for soot are rings with a mix of conjugated double and single bonds (technically not true but for this it's good enough.) Because of this it makes acetylene very efficient as a building block for the rings.
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Posted: 9/3/2015 6:38:13 PM EDT
[#8]
Thanks for the insightful replies. I always knew soot was produced on account of poor fuel/oxygen ratio. I was just wandering about the densities. That was a really intersting reply about the acetylene.
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Posted: 9/3/2015 7:22:14 PM EDT
[#9]
Just out of curiosity, are there any other energy dense but molecularly light fuels out there like acetylene?
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Posted: 9/3/2015 8:27:21 PM EDT
[#10]
Gases have low energy density, but generally burn faster. Sometimes its better to burn a less dense fuel faster than a high density fuel that burns slower. Think candle vs 87 octane vs methane.
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Posted: 9/3/2015 9:00:28 PM EDT
[#11]
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This is also true. You need an oxygen poor environment to produce soot. This is an isopropyl alcohol fire: http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd498/libalj/2015-09-02%2011.09.47_zpsovxj451s.jpg Even though the fire is poor in atmospheric oxygen and the flames are 15ft high almost no soot is produced because the molecule has a low molecular weight and a relatively high oxygen to carbon ratio. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Soot is from inefficient combustion. True. But things like rubbing alcohol produce little to no soot in an open air atmosphere, whereas acetylene produces gobs.. I'm thinking its something to do with hydrocarbons and its probably something a 7th grade student could answer for me because I didn't pay enough attention in science class
Maybe Keith J will come along and fix me! FPNI.. Acetylene produces soot due to too much fuel and not enough oxygen. When you increase the oxy input to the combustion process, it produces less and less. When it reaches the stoichiometric mixture it is the most efficient. http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd498/libalj/2015-09-02%2011.09.47_zpsovxj451s.jpg Even though the fire is poor in atmospheric oxygen and the flames are 15ft high almost no soot is produced because the molecule has a low molecular weight and a relatively high oxygen to carbon ratio. because isopropyl alcohol brings some of it's own Oxygen to the party... At first glance I would have thought you worked at the ATF Lab in Maryland but I see you list your location as WI.... |
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Posted: 9/3/2015 9:41:17 PM EDT
[#12]
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because isopropyl alcohol brings some of it's own Oxygen to the party... At first glance I would have thought you worked at the ATF Lab in Maryland but I see you list your location as WI.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Soot is from inefficient combustion. True. But things like rubbing alcohol produce little to no soot in an open air atmosphere, whereas acetylene produces gobs.. I'm thinking its something to do with hydrocarbons and its probably something a 7th grade student could answer for me because I didn't pay enough attention in science class
Maybe Keith J will come along and fix me! FPNI.. Acetylene produces soot due to too much fuel and not enough oxygen. When you increase the oxy input to the combustion process, it produces less and less. When it reaches the stoichiometric mixture it is the most efficient. http://i1222.photobucket.com/albums/dd498/libalj/2015-09-02%2011.09.47_zpsovxj451s.jpg Even though the fire is poor in atmospheric oxygen and the flames are 15ft high almost no soot is produced because the molecule has a low molecular weight and a relatively high oxygen to carbon ratio. because isopropyl alcohol brings some of it's own Oxygen to the party... At first glance I would have thought you worked at the ATF Lab in Maryland but I see you list your location as WI.... Didn't know that. |
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Posted: 9/3/2015 10:11:50 PM EDT
[#13]
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Just out of curiosity, are there any other energy dense but molecularly light fuels out there like acetylene? Hydrogen + oxygen |
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Posted: 9/3/2015 10:24:38 PM EDT
[#14]
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Hydrogen + oxygen Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Just out of curiosity, are there any other energy dense but molecularly light fuels out there like acetylene? Hydrogen + oxygen I didn't think hydrogen was that energy dense. I always thought the reason it made an attractive rocket propellent was because of of the ability to be stored in a liquid state. IOW, cram a lot of it in a little space. On the other hand, some rocket designs, including the first stage of the Saturn V used kerosene and LOX. Kerosene has a relatively high energy density. |
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Posted: 9/3/2015 10:31:42 PM EDT
[#15]
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I didn't think hydrogen was that energy dense. I always thought the reason it made an attractive rocket propellent was because of of the ability to be stored in a liquid state. IOW, cram a lot of it in a little space. On the other hand, some rocket designs, including the first stage of the Saturn V used kerosene and LOX. Kerosene has a relatively high energy density. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Just out of curiosity, are there any other energy dense but molecularly light fuels out there like acetylene? Hydrogen + oxygen I didn't think hydrogen was that energy dense. I always thought the reason it made an attractive rocket propellent was because of of the ability to be stored in a liquid state. IOW, cram a lot of it in a little space. On the other hand, some rocket designs, including the first stage of the Saturn V used kerosene and LOX. Kerosene has a relatively high energy density. What do you mean by density? Hydrogen is much higher on a per/lb basis. |
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Posted: 9/3/2015 10:34:16 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: because isopropyl alcohol brings some of it's own Oxygen to the party... At first glance I would have thought you worked at the ATF Lab in Maryland but I see you list your location as WI.... |
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Posted: 9/3/2015 10:42:18 PM EDT
[#17]
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What do you mean by density? Hydrogen is much higher on a per/lb basis. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Just out of curiosity, are there any other energy dense but molecularly light fuels out there like acetylene? Hydrogen + oxygen I didn't think hydrogen was that energy dense. I always thought the reason it made an attractive rocket propellent was because of of the ability to be stored in a liquid state. IOW, cram a lot of it in a little space. On the other hand, some rocket designs, including the first stage of the Saturn V used kerosene and LOX. Kerosene has a relatively high energy density. What do you mean by density? Hydrogen is much higher on a per/lb basis. By volume. |
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Posted: 9/3/2015 10:46:26 PM EDT
[#18]
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Nope, unlike the ATF my job involves preventing people and property from burning, not causing it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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because isopropyl alcohol brings some of it's own Oxygen to the party... At first glance I would have thought you worked at the ATF Lab in Maryland but I see you list your location as WI.... Nice! |
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Posted: 9/3/2015 10:56:44 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I didn't think hydrogen was that energy dense. I always thought the reason it made an attractive rocket propellent was because of of the ability to be stored in a liquid state. IOW, cram a lot of it in a little space. On the other hand, some rocket designs, including the first stage of the Saturn V used kerosene and LOX. Kerosene has a relatively high energy density. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Just out of curiosity, are there any other energy dense but molecularly light fuels out there like acetylene? Hydrogen + oxygen I didn't think hydrogen was that energy dense. I always thought the reason it made an attractive rocket propellent was because of of the ability to be stored in a liquid state. IOW, cram a lot of it in a little space. On the other hand, some rocket designs, including the first stage of the Saturn V used kerosene and LOX. Kerosene has a relatively high energy density. |
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Posted: 9/3/2015 11:03:28 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I will add that a lot of properties of chemicals that make them high energy density (BTU/lb for the common folk) also make them produce soot. These are not directly correlated so there are explosive exceptions like hydrogen which will ruin your day but produce no soot. For soot it's all about the polyaromatic hydrocarbons. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Just out of curiosity, are there any other energy dense but molecularly light fuels out there like acetylene? Hydrogen + oxygen I didn't think hydrogen was that energy dense. I always thought the reason it made an attractive rocket propellent was because of of the ability to be stored in a liquid state. IOW, cram a lot of it in a little space. On the other hand, some rocket designs, including the first stage of the Saturn V used kerosene and LOX. Kerosene has a relatively high energy density. but rolling poly aromatic hydrocarbons doesn't sound as cool as rolling coal 
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Posted: 9/3/2015 11:05:34 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: but rolling poly aromatic hydrocarbons doesn't sound as cool as rolling coal Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Just out of curiosity, are there any other energy dense but molecularly light fuels out there like acetylene? Hydrogen + oxygen I didn't think hydrogen was that energy dense. I always thought the reason it made an attractive rocket propellent was because of of the ability to be stored in a liquid state. IOW, cram a lot of it in a little space. On the other hand, some rocket designs, including the first stage of the Saturn V used kerosene and LOX. Kerosene has a relatively high energy density. but rolling poly aromatic hydrocarbons doesn't sound as cool as rolling coal |
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Posted: 9/3/2015 11:09:31 PM EDT
[#22]
Neither does being married
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Posted: 9/3/2015 11:16:13 PM EDT
[#23]
This whole goofy half-lit train of thought got going today when we were bonding some grounds. We needed to bond some ground wire to ground rods. We use this crap they call cadweld. Basically, they give you a little crucible with a rubber bung in the bottom that you slip over your ground rod and then it has holes in the side to insert your wires. One its set up, you put in some thermite and light it off. It bonds all the metal together damn near instantly. Then the rubber bung on the bottom catches fire and burns.
At any rate, the soot is really intense for the little piece of rubber burning. Funny how something silly like this will get goofy speculations and theories going
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Posted: 9/3/2015 11:16:52 PM EDT
[#24]
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It doesn't get you much pussy either. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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[quot]Quoted: Quoted:
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Just out of curiosity, are there any other energy dense but molecularly light fuels out there like acetylene? Hydrogen + oxygen[/qute] I didn't think hydrogen was that energy dense. I always thought the reason it made an attractive rocket propellent was because of of the ability to be stored in a liquid state. IOW, cram a lot of it in a little space. On the other hand, some rocket designs, including the first stage of the Saturn V used kerosene and LOX. Kerosene has a relatively high energy density. but rolling poly aromatic hydrocarbons doesn't sound as cool as rolling coal 
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Posted: 9/3/2015 11:21:48 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This whole goofy half-lit train of thought got going today when we were bonding some grounds. We needed to bond some ground wire to ground rods. We use this crap they call cadweld. Basically, they give you a little crucible with a rubber bung in the bottom that you slip over your ground rod and then it has holes in the side to insert your wires. One its set up, you put in some thermite and light it off. It bonds all the metal together damn near instantly. Then the rubber bung on the bottom catches fire and burns. At any rate, the soot is really intense for the little piece of rubber burning. Funny how something silly like this will get goofy speculations and theories going I take it you've never burned tires.
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Posted: 9/3/2015 11:23:47 PM EDT
[#26]
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I take it you've never burned tires. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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This whole goofy half-lit train of thought got going today when we were bonding some grounds. We needed to bond some ground wire to ground rods. We use this crap they call cadweld. Basically, they give you a little crucible with a rubber bung in the bottom that you slip over your ground rod and then it has holes in the side to insert your wires. One its set up, you put in some thermite and light it off. It bonds all the metal together damn near instantly. Then the rubber bung on the bottom catches fire and burns. At any rate, the soot is really intense for the little piece of rubber burning. Funny how something silly like this will get goofy speculations and theories going I take it you've never burned tires. Shhhh! Not for years! |
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Posted: 9/4/2015 8:22:43 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I will add that a lot of properties of chemicals that make them high energy density (BTU/lb for the common folk) also make them produce soot. These are not directly correlated so there are explosive exceptions like hydrogen which will ruin your day but produce no soot. For soot it's all about the polyaromatic hydrocarbons. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Just out of curiosity, are there any other energy dense but molecularly light fuels out there like acetylene? Hydrogen + oxygen I didn't think hydrogen was that energy dense. I always thought the reason it made an attractive rocket propellent was because of of the ability to be stored in a liquid state. IOW, cram a lot of it in a little space. On the other hand, some rocket designs, including the first stage of the Saturn V used kerosene and LOX. Kerosene has a relatively high energy density. BTW, thank you! That was really kind of the answer I was searching for
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