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Posted: 8/31/2015 1:58:16 PM EDT
[#1]
Putting a piston in your AR doesn't increase the reliability.
Spend your money how you want to. |
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Posted: 8/31/2015 2:00:23 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Putting a piston in your AR doesn't increase the reliability. Spend your money how you want to. agreed. |
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Posted: 8/31/2015 2:03:57 PM EDT
[#3]
I have high end piston and DI guns. I can't tell the difference in accuracy or reliability. Piston guns are much cleaner and easier to clean.
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Posted: 8/31/2015 2:14:48 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
agreed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Putting a piston in your AR doesn't increase the reliability. Spend your money how you want to. agreed. From what I had read, I was under the impression that the M4 (Which i understand to be a 6920 with 14.5" barrel and happy switch) has a MTBF well under what a piston rifle runs. |
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Posted: 8/31/2015 2:19:56 PM EDT
[#5]
Your AR already has a piston.
Check out the stickies in the Adco forum. More relevant to your discussion, I have been wanting to check out a Colt 6940P. |
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Posted: 8/31/2015 2:23:09 PM EDT
[#6]
Unless running suppressed, I myself don't see the benefit to pistons.
Aside from the 'clean' part And, DI does just fine suppressed, just dirtier I'd rather spend the additional $ on ammo, optics, etc Then again, nothing goes back into my safe without getting cleaned first You may not be as OCD as I, in which case pistons may not be a bad thing |
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Posted: 8/31/2015 2:23:23 PM EDT
[#7]
For the Crimson Trace midnight 3 gun, PWS supplied full auto SBR's as stage guns. Those guns ran 60 rounds per shooter, 10 shooters per squad, approximately 5 squads per night. I believe they rotated 2 or maybe 3 guns to manage overheating, but the reliability made an impression on me.
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Posted: 8/31/2015 2:24:03 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: From what I had read, I was under the impression that the M4 (Which i understand to be a 6920 with 14.5" barrel and happy switch) has a MTBF well under what a piston rifle runs. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Putting a piston in your AR doesn't increase the reliability. Spend your money how you want to. agreed. From what I had read, I was under the impression that the M4 (Which i understand to be a 6920 with 14.5" barrel and happy switch) has a MTBF well under what a piston rifle runs. Going from memory, but I'm sure the results are still on the archive server somewhere. ETA: had my timing wrong. The fall test was the one with the large disparity (allegedly due to the burst function on the m4).  |
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Posted: 8/31/2015 2:27:06 PM EDT
[#9]
It pretty much boils down to a cleaning issue. How much do you want to spend to only have to run a snake down your bore and maybe wipe down your bolt carrier group every blue moon? To me, I haven't had the money to throw away since I got married
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Posted: 8/31/2015 2:30:10 PM EDT
[#10]
I personally don't get to shoot enough to tell you about DI vs Piston reliability. I bought one (LWRC SPR) because I wanted it and the gunstore was going out of business.
Having shot several iterations of the piston AR, I can tell you the recoil impulse is different than a DI rifle. Accuracy inside of 150 yds was no different than the DI guns. The piston guns are dramatically cleaner than the DI rifles. Even back in the days of 1k round range sessions, I never had many issues with my DI rifles. I've put maybe a couple thousand rounds through the LWRC now and I've had no issues to report. If you want a piston rifle, get one. Just don't expect miraculous improvements. |
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Posted: 8/31/2015 2:31:47 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It pretty much boils down to a cleaning issue. How much do you want to spend to only have to run a snake down your bore and maybe wipe down your bolt carrier group every blue moon? To me, I haven't had the money to throw away since I got married The price of piston guns keeps coming down unless you're talking a MR556 or such. The SR556s are on sale for around $900 which is right in the range of a 6920 unless you found one with the big walmart deal recently. I love both of my 6920s, however if there's something better I could get for similar money, i'd be ok with selling off one of my cheap builds and replacing it with a nicer rifle. |
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Posted: 8/31/2015 2:45:20 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have high end piston and DI guns. I can't tell the difference in accuracy or reliability. Piston guns are much cleaner and easier to clean. Pretty much this. I sold all my DI's and have all piston now. With the exception of my .50 Beowulf, but I'm working on a solution to piston that as well. |
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Posted: 8/31/2015 2:46:32 PM EDT
[#13]
I had an SR556. It looked neat, but didn't really do anything special that any other AR won't do. It got sold or traded. |
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Posted: 8/31/2015 2:49:32 PM EDT
[#14]
Didn't that guy from Battlefield Vegas say that the piston ARs (aside from the 416) were less reliable? Not surprising. The Marines and various other countries seem to like their HKs...
IMO I'd just get a cheap 6920. Most of the small name piston ARs were never subjected to abuse and who knows how the part situation will be 3-5 years down the road. |
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Posted: 8/31/2015 4:12:40 PM EDT
[#15]
I see no reason to fix something thats not broke.
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Posted: 9/1/2015 9:15:22 PM EDT
[#16]
After reviewing all the opinions I think i'll go for a third 6920 unless anyone can offer a better deal for me to think about. Took my socom out with the 4-12x Nikon scope I have for it and was very, very pleased with the performance.
How many is too many? |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 9:25:57 PM EDT
[#17]
I've never had a failure with any of my AR's due to the lack of a piston. Crap mags, crap ammo, yes, but never anything else.
As for cleaning, disassembling the BCG and soaking for a bit in foaming bore scrubber while you're doing the barrel/chamber is no big deal and does a reasonably good job with little effort.. |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 9:31:29 PM EDT
[#18]
Meh. Get the Colt. Spend the difference on ammo.
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Posted: 9/1/2015 9:31:32 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
agreed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Putting a piston in your AR doesn't increase the reliability. Spend your money how you want to. agreed. X2 Hardware fix for a software problem |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 9:34:11 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The DI gun actually fared pretty well in the "fall retest" of the extreme dust test. If you exclude magazine related failures, I believe it had less stoppages than the SCAR 16 or the 416. Going from memory, but I'm sure the results are still on the archive server somewhere. ETA: had my timing wrong. The fall test was the one with the large disparity (allegedly due to the burst function on the m4). http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_9z0kZs2YpZg/R3seWbcGmKI/AAAAAAAAAKI/l8qvBq6S-eE/s400/EDT-6.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Putting a piston in your AR doesn't increase the reliability. Spend your money how you want to. agreed. From what I had read, I was under the impression that the M4 (Which i understand to be a 6920 with 14.5" barrel and happy switch) has a MTBF well under what a piston rifle runs. Going from memory, but I'm sure the results are still on the archive server somewhere. ETA: had my timing wrong. The fall test was the one with the large disparity (allegedly due to the burst function on the m4). http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_9z0kZs2YpZg/R3seWbcGmKI/AAAAAAAAAKI/l8qvBq6S-eE/s400/EDT-6.jpg Even more sad, these people are the same that bash moronic libtards for doing the exact same thing. |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 9:38:20 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is a situation where people will ignore blatant facts and insist DI is as or more reliable than a piston. Then make up random "facts" about how the test is biased. Even more sad, these people are the same that bash moronic libtards for doing the exact same thing. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Putting a piston in your AR doesn't increase the reliability. Spend your money how you want to. agreed. From what I had read, I was under the impression that the M4 (Which i understand to be a 6920 with 14.5" barrel and happy switch) has a MTBF well under what a piston rifle runs. Going from memory, but I'm sure the results are still on the archive server somewhere. ETA: had my timing wrong. The fall test was the one with the large disparity (allegedly due to the burst function on the m4). http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_9z0kZs2YpZg/R3seWbcGmKI/AAAAAAAAAKI/l8qvBq6S-eE/s400/EDT-6.jpg Even more sad, these people are the same that bash moronic libtards for doing the exact same thing. And yet you predicted the XM-8 would replace the M-4 ten years ago. You are a fine one to be lecturing people about accuracy sparky. |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 9:56:47 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryAnd yet you predicted the XM-8 would replace the M-4 ten years ago.
You are a fine one to be lecturing people about accuracy sparky. Isn't the XM8 more or less the G36 with a little Americanization done to it? |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:05:27 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Isn't the XM8 more or less the G36 with a little Americanization done to it? Quote HistoryQuoted:
And yet you predicted the XM-8 would replace the M-4 ten years ago.
You are a fine one to be lecturing people about accuracy sparky. Isn't the XM8 more or less the G36 with a little Americanization done to it? Yep, and we all know what a raging success the G-36 is. |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:06:50 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have high end piston and DI guns. I can't tell the difference in accuracy or reliability. Piston guns are much cleaner and easier to clean. I know how you texans hate getting your nails dirty 
Just get a DI I'd say its more reliable and lighter. |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:08:05 PM EDT
[#25]
I have an Adams Arms piston carbine. Got a blem model from Buds that looked perfect to me. Slapped on some Magpul furniture and a Geissle trigger.
Its nice running Wolf through it and not worrying about cartridges getting stuck nor inhaling its nasty funk. Accuracy with brass was on par with my Rock River DI. I'm all in for pistons. |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:13:48 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have an Adams Arms piston carbine. Got a blem model from Buds that looked perfect to me. Slapped on some Magpul furniture and a Geissle trigger. Its nice running Wolf through it and not worrying about cartridges getting stuck nor inhaling its nasty funk. Accuracy with brass was on par with my Rock River DI. I'm all in for pistons. I have 2 AA's in 5.45, 2 Ruger SR556's and various caliber DI guns. They all have their merits, but I prefer the piston guns. |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:14:15 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your AR already has a piston. Check out the stickies in the Adco forum. More relevant to your discussion, I have been wanting to check out a Colt 6940P. Thank you. |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:14:59 PM EDT
[#28]
How does the Colt piston gun compare to the other piston models on the market?
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:15:09 PM EDT
[#29]
Go read the Las Vegas machine gun rental thread, on high round count AR's. The piston ARs break (usually bent rods). The DI's didn't, they keep chugging.
Piston AR's are a wildly successful marketing scheme. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/677135_High_round_count_AR_M4_s__over_100_000_rounds__and_how_they_have_handled_on_our_range.html |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 11:09:48 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Go read the Las Vegas machine gun rental thread, on high round count AR's. The piston ARs break (usually bent rods). The DI's didn't, they keep chugging. Piston AR's are a wildly successful marketing scheme. http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/677135_High_round_count_AR_M4_s__over_100_000_rounds__and_how_they_have_handled_on_our_range.html Wow. I need some DD BCGs and a set of gas tubes :D |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 11:26:22 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is a situation where people will ignore blatant facts and insist DI is as or more reliable than a piston. Then make up random "facts" about how the test is biased. Even more sad, these people are the same that bash moronic libtards for doing the exact same thing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Putting a piston in your AR doesn't increase the reliability. Spend your money how you want to. agreed. From what I had read, I was under the impression that the M4 (Which i understand to be a 6920 with 14.5" barrel and happy switch) has a MTBF well under what a piston rifle runs. Going from memory, but I'm sure the results are still on the archive server somewhere. ETA: had my timing wrong. The fall test was the one with the large disparity (allegedly due to the burst function on the m4). http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_9z0kZs2YpZg/R3seWbcGmKI/AAAAAAAAAKI/l8qvBq6S-eE/s400/EDT-6.jpg Even more sad, these people are the same that bash moronic libtards for doing the exact same thing. You will notice that I used "allegedly" as the reason for testing discrepancy. I have heard that reason as internet rumor, but I have never seen a verifiable reference to back that up. Unless you disagree that the posted slide is from the report in question, my original statement stands. In one of the tests conducted, excluding magazine failures, the m4 had fewer stoppages than the SCAR16 or HK416. |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 11:34:01 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How does the Colt piston gun compare to the other piston models on the market? I'm kicking myself for not picking one up when a retailer had them for $1,200ish. I've never seen them that low again. Their marketing schtick touts that their piston has an articulating link in the op rod, which supposedly mitigates some issues inherent in piston AR's. I can't comment on how well it works. One item I have heard some complain about is that the 6940P uses Colt's monolithic upper, so you are locked in to the carbine length quad rail on that item. Not an issue for me, but some seem to not like it. I would also be curious to hear anyone chime in that has a high round count Sig 516, and if they have had any issues, or not. |
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Posted: 9/2/2015 12:25:38 AM EDT
[#33]
all my AR's have been DI since I built my first one in 85,dont see any reason to change now..
I would get the 6920 |
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Posted: 9/2/2015 12:45:31 AM EDT
[#34]
Reliablity/accuracy aside (and I think that is probably splitting hairs), the advantage of the piston, to me, is the ability to have a folding stock.
If you need to fit a firearm in a small case/area, this can be a real advantage. |
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Posted: 9/2/2015 12:55:52 AM EDT
[#35]
The only difference I notice between my DI and piston ARs are that the Piston AR kicks a bit more, so nose to charging handle is a bad idea AND the piston AR doesn't blow any gas back in my face when shooting suppressed. Other than that, I've seen no significant reliability increases or reduced accuracy issues with my POF rifle compared to my DI rifles. Of course, YMMV!
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Posted: 9/2/2015 9:00:39 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is a situation where people will ignore blatant facts and insist DI is as or more reliable than a piston. Then make up random "facts" about how the test is biased. Even more sad, these people are the same that bash moronic libtards for doing the exact same thing. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Putting a piston in your AR doesn't increase the reliability. Spend your money how you want to. agreed. From what I had read, I was under the impression that the M4 (Which i understand to be a 6920 with 14.5" barrel and happy switch) has a MTBF well under what a piston rifle runs. Going from memory, but I'm sure the results are still on the archive server somewhere. ETA: had my timing wrong. The fall test was the one with the large disparity (allegedly due to the burst function on the m4). http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_9z0kZs2YpZg/R3seWbcGmKI/AAAAAAAAAKI/l8qvBq6S-eE/s400/EDT-6.jpg Even more sad, these people are the same that bash moronic libtards for doing the exact same thing. How about the FACT that the M4/M16/AR15/etc are indeed piston guns, internal pistons, and are not DI guns. And where are these "blatant facts" you speak of? The only times I see these supposed "facts" is when someone is trying to sell DOD a new gun, |
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Posted: 9/2/2015 9:19:43 AM EDT
[#37]
What the fuck is it with people's obsession with piston guns.
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