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Posted: 6/29/2015 10:50:46 AM EDT
[#1]
I think that's kinda stupid. A marriage license is a STATE thing, not a religious thing.
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Posted: 6/29/2015 10:52:43 AM EDT
[#2]
Can police and firemen refuse to work on Sunday, too?
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Posted: 6/29/2015 10:52:54 AM EDT
[#3]
Because that will totally hold up to legal challenge.
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Posted: 6/29/2015 10:53:20 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think that's kinda stupid. A marriage license is a STATE thing, not a religious thing. This. |
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Posted: 6/29/2015 10:53:31 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think that's kinda stupid. A marriage license is a STATE thing, not a religious thing. |
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Posted: 6/29/2015 10:55:37 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
"County clerks in Texas who object to gay marriage can refuse to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples despite last week's landmark U.S. Supreme Court ruling requiring states to allow same-sex marriage, Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton said on Sunday." Link It's nice that we can accommodate their feelings. Like, it would also be neat if a civil employee could deny a CCW in a shall-issue state FOR THE SAKE OF THE CHILDREN. |
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Posted: 6/29/2015 10:56:08 AM EDT
[#7]
If they cannot follow the law, then they need to resign. The whole Cultural Revolution thing in which the States have been stripped of all powers is wrong. But gay marriage is the law of the land like it or not.
Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's and give unto God that which is God's.....Jesus The church needs to stay out of State recognition of legal domestic relationships. The State needs to stay out of religious actions such as a wedding. This got to be a mess when ministers became agents of the State in declaring people to be married. But the bible is clear that we are to follow civil law or be willing to pay for it as a matter of conscience. If being a Christian means you have to lose your gov job, then so be it. As Christians we are to be bold in proclaiming the Gospel even if it costs us employment. |
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Posted: 6/29/2015 10:56:18 AM EDT
[#8]
That kinda pisses me off.
We are either a nation of laws or we aren't. This is exactly like the DC officials not issuing gun permits after Heller. It is exactly the same. |
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Posted: 6/29/2015 10:58:02 AM EDT
[#9]
Texans should be pissed off that this man is about to waste hundreds of thousands of your tax dollars on a stupid and pointless legal challenge.
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Posted: 6/29/2015 10:58:08 AM EDT
[#10]
Conservatives need to drop the whole religion-in-government and gay hate BS.
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Posted: 6/29/2015 10:58:11 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That kinda pisses me off. We are either a nation of laws or we aren't. This is exactly like the DC officials not issuing gun permits after Heller. It is exactly the same. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ What he said |
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Posted: 6/29/2015 10:58:20 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I think that's kinda stupid. A marriage license is a STATE thing, not a religious thing. This. |
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Posted: 6/29/2015 10:58:43 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That kinda pisses me off. We are either a nation of laws or we aren't. This is exactly like the DC officials not issuing gun permits after Heller. It is exactly the same. Yep |
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Posted: 6/29/2015 10:58:58 AM EDT
[#14]
FPNI.
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Posted: 6/29/2015 10:59:36 AM EDT
[#15]
Heck, Chicago/DC routinely ignore SCOTUS rulings. . .
Doesn't make it right in this case, but I admire Texas for doing it. Good for the goose, good for the gander. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 6/29/2015 11:00:28 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That kinda pisses me off. We are either a nation of laws or we aren't. This is exactly like the DC officials not issuing gun permits after Heller. It is exactly the same. Well, sad to say, we are no longer a nation of laws. The Supreme Court burned that bridge when they ruled on Obamacare. We are now a nation of making it up as you go along. Whatever the ruling class's "intent" is is good enough, no matter what the actual law states. Once the government stops following the rule of law, the citizenry has no moral obligation to follow the same. |
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Posted: 6/29/2015 11:01:41 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That kinda pisses me off. We are either a nation of laws or we aren't. This is exactly like the DC officials not issuing gun permits after Heller. It is exactly the same. E.X.A.C.T.L.Y. |
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Posted: 6/29/2015 11:01:49 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think that's kinda stupid. A marriage license is a STATE thing, not a religious thing. I agree. They have no right to refuse the service, none at all. Churches otoh have the right to rufuse. |
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Posted: 6/29/2015 11:02:27 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's nice that we can accommodate their feelings. Like, it would also be neat if a civil employee could deny a CCW in a shall-issue state FOR THE SAKE OF THE CHILDREN. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
"County clerks in Texas who object to gay marriage can refuse to issue marriage licenses to same-sex couples despite last week's landmark U.S. Supreme Court ruling requiring states to allow same-sex marriage, Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton said on Sunday." Link It's nice that we can accommodate their feelings. Like, it would also be neat if a civil employee could deny a CCW in a shall-issue state FOR THE SAKE OF THE CHILDREN. Although I usually don't agree with a lot of things you say but on this you are right. However it may be the law it is an absolute sickening state of affairs this nation has now embarked upon. |
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Posted: 6/29/2015 11:04:11 AM EDT
[#20]
lol
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Posted: 6/29/2015 11:04:28 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Its a STATE thing ... yes, not a FEDERAL thing Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I think that's kinda stupid. A marriage license is a STATE thing, not a religious thing. This. |
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Posted: 6/29/2015 11:06:41 AM EDT
[#22]
I thought both the left and ARFCOM loved civil disobedience as a response to unjust laws?
Does 'Will not comply' ring a bell with anyone here? |
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Posted: 6/29/2015 11:07:37 AM EDT
[#23]
Interesting comments with a lot of valid points.
I view it as Texas believing in the notion of “Consent of the Governed.” SCOTUS clearly overstepped their authority and AG Paxton is saying those that do not consent, don’t. (Comparing this to CCW or Heller doesn’t work. There are no Constitutional Amendments protecting your right to marriage.) |
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Posted: 6/29/2015 11:07:40 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That kinda pisses me off. We are either a nation of laws or we aren't. This is exactly like the DC officials not issuing gun permits after Heller. It is exactly the same. I'm giddy. 
Chaos is coming. 
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Posted: 6/29/2015 11:08:15 AM EDT
[#25]
You mean he's doing what liberal states (and D.C.) are doing when it comes to the Heller SCOTUS decision? Ignoring the results and keeping the status quo?
Eric  |
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Posted: 6/29/2015 11:09:30 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Interesting comments with a lot of valid points. I view it as Texas believing in the notion of “Consent of the Governed.” SCOTUS clearly overstepped their authority and AG Paxton is saying those that do not consent, don’t. (Comparing this to CCW or Heller doesn’t work. There are no Constitutional Amendments protecting your right to marriage.) Well, unfortunately for that theory, the Constitution explicitly states that Texas courts must abide by SCOTUS decisions. So when this gets to court, there's only one Constitutional way the judges can rule. |
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Posted: 6/29/2015 11:12:51 AM EDT
[#27]
I'm actually okay with this. the SCOTUS cannot write laws which in itself it did. By their logic any contract dealt on the state level has to be acknowledge nation wide.
We can debate what should and should not be but the only thing that is what is present ie the US Constitution and the SCOTUS without a doubt impeded on the 10th Amendment. I really hope though this does lead nationwide carry. Based on their logic they used it should be. It could be, but probably wont be because the SCOTUS is a biased entity to whomever is in power. I much rather see this lead to term limits and a legitimate voting on judges per amendments than anything else. |
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Posted: 6/29/2015 11:13:47 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You mean he's doing what liberal states (and D.C.) are doing when it comes to the Heller SCOTUS decision? Ignoring the results and keeping the status quo? Eric
I think the difference here is that he's saying that individual clerks can choose to not marry gays. The states ban on gay marriage has been found unconstitutional but he's not willing to put the Texas' money where his mouth is... but he has no problem with an individual clerk defying the SC. |
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Posted: 6/29/2015 11:14:40 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, unfortunately for that theory, the Constitution explicitly states that Texas courts must abide by SCOTUS decisions. So when this gets to court, there's only one Constitutional way the judges can rule. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Interesting comments with a lot of valid points. I view it as Texas believing in the notion of “Consent of the Governed.” SCOTUS clearly overstepped their authority and AG Paxton is saying those that do not consent, don’t. (Comparing this to CCW or Heller doesn’t work. There are no Constitutional Amendments protecting your right to marriage.) Well, unfortunately for that theory, the Constitution explicitly states that Texas courts must abide by SCOTUS decisions. So when this gets to court, there's only one Constitutional way the judges can rule. Valid point. I'll apply the TJ school of thought to the situation. I don't believe in rolling over. (No pun intended.  )
“I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical.” Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, Paris, January 30, 1787 |
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Posted: 6/29/2015 11:15:05 AM EDT
[#30]
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Posted: 6/29/2015 11:20:55 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Its a STATE thing ... yes, not a FEDERAL thing Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I think that's kinda stupid. A marriage license is a STATE thing, not a religious thing. This. The 14th. Equal protection is a 150 year old argument for/against the nationalization of the BoR. Like it or not, once the government gets involved in something, it can't deny it to people based on race, gender, etc. That being said, the AG is giving the go ahead for your local/county official to be even more lazy. |
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Posted: 6/29/2015 11:22:03 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
E.X.A.C.T.L.Y. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
That kinda pisses me off. We are either a nation of laws or we aren't. This is exactly like the DC officials not issuing gun permits after Heller. It is exactly the same. E.X.A.C.T.L.Y. If the SCOTUS said I had to turn in my guns I wouldn't. |
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Posted: 6/29/2015 11:23:59 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Valid point. I'll apply the TJ school of thought to the situation. I don't believe in rolling over. (No pun intended. )
“I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical.” Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, Paris, January 30, 1787 I dig it. But there's also a "Take the King's Shilling" angle at play here. If your job is to enforce laws and regulations (and county clerks basically do that), you can't just pick and choose which ones you want to follow. You want to protest what your job now entails, that's fine, protest away, but your job still entails it... do the job or quit. I don't think Thomas Jefferson was running around collecting Stamp Act taxes when we wrote the Declaration of Independence.
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Posted: 6/29/2015 11:24:22 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Great speech. Quote HistoryIt didn't work out too well for that racist fuck, did it? |
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Posted: 6/29/2015 11:26:00 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Heck, Chicago/DC routinely ignore SCOTUS rulings. . . Doesn't make it right in this case, but I admire Texas for doing it. Good for the goose, good for the gander. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Yep. Arfcomm is all about civil disobedience. Until someone likes what they don't like. Is this illegal? Probably. I'll get around to caring about it eventually. |
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Posted: 6/29/2015 11:27:21 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If the SCOTUS said I had to turn in my guns I wouldn't. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
That kinda pisses me off. We are either a nation of laws or we aren't. This is exactly like the DC officials not issuing gun permits after Heller. It is exactly the same. E.X.A.C.T.L.Y. If the SCOTUS said I had to turn in my guns I wouldn't. Don't worry, all the libertarians suddenly turned statists will get them for you. |
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Posted: 6/29/2015 11:27:32 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If they cannot follow the law, then they need to resign. The whole Cultural Revolution thing in which the States have been stripped of all powers is wrong. But gay marriage is the law of the land like it or not. Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's and give unto God that which is God's.....Jesus The church needs to stay out of State recognition of legal domestic relationships. The State needs to stay out of religious actions such as a wedding. This got to be a mess when ministers became agents of the State in declaring people to be married. But the bible is clear that we are to follow civil law or be willing to pay for it as a matter of conscience. If being a Christian means you have to lose your gov job, then so be it. As Christians we are to be bold in proclaiming the Gospel even if it costs us employment. Well stated. |
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Posted: 6/29/2015 11:27:39 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep. Arfcomm is all about civil disobedience. Until someone likes what they don't like. Is this illegal? Probably. I'll get around to caring about it eventually. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Heck, Chicago/DC routinely ignore SCOTUS rulings. . . Doesn't make it right in this case, but I admire Texas for doing it. Good for the goose, good for the gander. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Yep. Arfcomm is all about civil disobedience. Until someone likes what they don't like. Is this illegal? Probably. I'll get around to caring about it eventually. Civil disobedience refers to private citizens. Not to state officials refusing to do their duty. It really is no different than your local county clerk refusing to issue a CCW license because they don't like guns. |
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Posted: 6/29/2015 11:28:37 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Civil disobedience refers to private citizens. Not to state officials refusing to do their duty. It really is no different than your local county clerk refusing to issue a CCW license because they don't like guns. If Snips and I agree on something....
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Posted: 6/29/2015 11:29:47 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Conservatives need to drop the whole religion-in-government and gay hate BS. 
<-------- DU is that way. One of the dumbest things I have ever read on this site. How long did it take you to formulate such a stupid as hell thought? Religion is the only thing that keeps the U.S. from spiraling into another 3rd world s%#thole. Just because you have deluded yourself into believing that God doesn't exist and that gay is ok doesn't mean that you are right. When the United States stopped having a biblical world view, and started having a do what feels good, as long as it doesn't affect me, pillow biters and trannys are ok worldview is when we started to decline |
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Posted: 6/29/2015 11:30:13 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I dig it. But there's also a "Take the King's Shilling" angle at play here. If your job is to enforce laws and regulations (and county clerks basically do that), you can't just pick and choose which ones you want to follow. You want to protest what your job now entails, that's fine, protest away, but your job still entails it... do the job or quit. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Valid point. I'll apply the TJ school of thought to the situation. I don't believe in rolling over. (No pun intended. )
“I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical.” Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, Paris, January 30, 1787 I dig it. But there's also a "Take the King's Shilling" angle at play here. If your job is to enforce laws and regulations (and county clerks basically do that), you can't just pick and choose which ones you want to follow. You want to protest what your job now entails, that's fine, protest away, but your job still entails it... do the job or quit. Agreed. They took an oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States and of the republic of Texas. If they feel know this ruling violates both, should they still do their job? The left doesn't accept rulings, laws or the Constitution - they just keep doing what they want. It's long past time we take the gloves off and fight to win. (Or at least throw a punch once in a while.) |
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Posted: 6/29/2015 11:30:17 AM EDT
[#42]
He is correct - but the fact is that while they can do this, most likely it will cost a hell of a lot more than they want to pay.
You can commit murder, but that does not remove the consequences of it. |
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Posted: 6/29/2015 11:30:43 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
<-------- DU is that way. One of the dumbest things I have ever read on this site. How long did it take you to formulate such a stupid as hell thought? Religion is the only thing that keeps the U.S. from spiraling into another 3rd world s%#thole. Just because you have deluded yourself into believing that God doesn't exist and that gay is ok doesn't mean that you are right. When the United States stopped having a biblical world view, and started having a do what feels good, as long as it doesn't affect me, pillow biters and trannys are ok worldview is when we started to decline Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Conservatives need to drop the whole religion-in-government and gay hate BS.
<-------- DU is that way. One of the dumbest things I have ever read on this site. How long did it take you to formulate such a stupid as hell thought? Religion is the only thing that keeps the U.S. from spiraling into another 3rd world s%#thole. Just because you have deluded yourself into believing that God doesn't exist and that gay is ok doesn't mean that you are right. When the United States stopped having a biblical world view, and started having a do what feels good, as long as it doesn't affect me, pillow biters and trannys are ok worldview is when we started to decline
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Posted: 6/29/2015 11:31:38 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Civil disobedience refers to private citizens. Not to state officials refusing to do their duty. It really is no different than your local county clerk refusing to issue a CCW license because they don't like guns. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Heck, Chicago/DC routinely ignore SCOTUS rulings. . . Doesn't make it right in this case, but I admire Texas for doing it. Good for the goose, good for the gander. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile Yep. Arfcomm is all about civil disobedience. Until someone likes what they don't like. Is this illegal? Probably. I'll get around to caring about it eventually. Civil disobedience refers to private citizens. Not to state officials refusing to do their duty. It really is no different than your local county clerk refusing to issue a CCW license because they don't like guns. Ever notice how everyone's a statist when they like the laws? |
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Posted: 6/29/2015 11:31:41 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
you can't just pick and choose which ones you want to follow. ...unless you're a judge, in which case you can just invent new ones. This is a losing battle and will ultimately, if continued, end in a further rebuke from the high court. But isn't it interesting how selective folks are about following the law and the morality of civil disobedience. |
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Posted: 6/29/2015 11:32:33 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
...unless you're a judge, in which case you can just invent new ones. This is a losing battle and will ultimately, if continued, end in a further rebuke from the high court. But isn't it interesting how selective folks are about following the law and the morality of civil disobedience. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
you can't just pick and choose which ones you want to follow. ...unless you're a judge, in which case you can just invent new ones. This is a losing battle and will ultimately, if continued, end in a further rebuke from the high court. But isn't it interesting how selective folks are about following the law and the morality of civil disobedience. Not seeing any civil disobedience here. |
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Posted: 6/29/2015 11:32:49 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The left doesn't accept rulings, laws or the Constitution - they just keep doing what they want. It's long past time we take the gloves off and fight to win. (Or at least throw a punch once in a while.) Oh, make no mistake, if this really is just the opening salvo in Texas saying "Fuck it, we're foing!", I'm seriously considering moving to Texas. 
But I don't think it is...
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Posted: 6/29/2015 11:33:59 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
...unless you're a judge, in which case you can just invent new ones. This is a losing battle and will ultimately, if continued, end in a further rebuke from the high court. But isn't it interesting how selective folks are about following the law and the morality of civil disobedience. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
you can't just pick and choose which ones you want to follow. ...unless you're a judge, in which case you can just invent new ones. This is a losing battle and will ultimately, if continued, end in a further rebuke from the high court. But isn't it interesting how selective folks are about following the law and the morality of civil disobedience. Civil disobedience is when an individual defies the law. A functionary of the clerk's office is not an individual. They are an arm of the state. This is a ministerial act and the clerk's office cannot fail to discharge its duty. |
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Posted: 6/29/2015 11:39:02 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh, make no mistake, if this really is just the opening salvo in Texas saying "Fuck it, we're foing!", I'm seriously considering moving to Texas.
But I don't think it is... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The left doesn't accept rulings, laws or the Constitution - they just keep doing what they want. It's long past time we take the gloves off and fight to win. (Or at least throw a punch once in a while.) Oh, make no mistake, if this really is just the opening salvo in Texas saying "Fuck it, we're foing!", I'm seriously considering moving to Texas.
But I don't think it is... Texas attorney general calls court's gay marriage decision 'a lawless ruling' "A ruling by the US Supreme Court is considered the law of the land, but a judge-made edict that is not based in the law or the Constitution diminishes faith in our system of government and the rule of law,” Paxton said. His condemnation of the decision echoes similar remarks by Texas Gov. Greg Abbott (R), who said in a statement Friday that no “adverse action” may be taken against state officials acting – or refusing to act – on their religious beliefs." CSM ETA: From same article, LA and MS are taking steps as well...... "In Louisiana, officials won’t be granting marriage licenses to same-sex couples just yet, according to LGBTQ Nation. The Louisiana Clerks Association advised clerks to wait until the end of a 25-day period for the high court to consider a rehearing. In 2004, voters approved a constitutional ban on same-sex marriage in the state, which a federal judge upheld last year." "In Mississippi, state house judiciary chairman Andy Gipson (R) said the state may remove the marriage license requirement altogether in light of the ruling, according to The Clarion-Ledger." |
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Posted: 6/29/2015 11:39:30 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
...unless you're a judge, in which case you can just invent new ones. This is a losing battle and will ultimately, if continued, end in a further rebuke from the high court. But isn't it interesting how selective folks are about following the law and the morality of civil disobedience. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
you can't just pick and choose which ones you want to follow. ...unless you're a judge, in which case you can just invent new ones. This is a losing battle and will ultimately, if continued, end in a further rebuke from the high court. But isn't it interesting how selective folks are about following the law and the morality of civil disobedience. Look at your PM's please. ETA: Oh, TOTALLY off topic. |
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