2000 Dodge Durango 4.7L

Been having issues with it dying randomly and then having a hard to restarting.  It'll start up eventually and act fine for a while.

Not a single code has come up.  Having seen this happen before with a bad CKP and CMP sensors, I replaced those as they could be bad but still somewhat working.  Didn't help.  TPS and IAC have been replaced.  All were original parts and I sell auto parts from an independent shop, so it's economical for me just to replace anything suspect for the most part.  Fuel pump was also replaced and is working properly.

Here's the thing.  I can have the hood open, get it started, it runs well for a bit, up until I go to close the hood...

As soon as the latch is connected at the front of the hood, it just loses ignition and free calls to dead.  Then will not restart.  I've hit the starter for over 12 seconds to get the ignition to run single sensor loop.  CKPS and CMPS are not the issue.  Battery connectors were replaced and the connection there is solid.

I'm at a loss.  I've never seen this before.  The only thing I have an issue with right now is the fender to engine block ground straps are toast.  They're still attached, but I can't imagine that this would cause this.  It's also a grounded with other cable elsewhere.  So only thing else I can come up with is Chrysler is a big heap of steaming shit with the dumbest ignition system.


Cliff's

Durango engine dies when you shut the hood
I replaced all kinds of shit for dirt cheap
It still won't run
Chrysler products suck and I just bought a new wrangler to abuse myself some more!

Check ground

There boiled it down to the basic problem.


I'd fix the grounds first. I'd also replace the fuel filter if it is replaceable. Some are not.

Do you have any trouble codes?

Roadkill solution: Take the hood off.


Wiring harness being pinched or acted upon by the hood hinges?

My parent's old Cloud car (dodge straus) had all kinds of electrical gremlins that turned out to be a pinched wire in the harness that ran along the trunk hinge.

OP, check for injector pulse next time it happens, I have seen injectors lock up on a hot soak and have to cool for up to 20 minutes and then refire.. on digital wrench I could see injector signals, it took putting a noid light on it when it happened to figure it out....

Don't discount the grounds.

I had a car that wouldn't run for shit once, checked everything I could think of and finally took it a guy.

He found one tiny corroded wire coming off a stupid unseen ground location. Fixed it just like that, it was so stupid.

Check the tipm. Edit never mind yours is a 2000 model. Are you loosing fuel pressure or injector pulse when it won't start?

At least you are NOW asking for a mechanic - almost anybody can be a parts changer.

I've beenhaving a sort of similar situation with my Cavalier. Turns out it's part of the anti-theft system! If I put my key in wrong, the fuel pump is shut off.

I suggest that you approach the problem this way.

Sounds like a wiring problem. Replace the suspect ground cables first.

Yup. The van ran like shit for years. A whole bunch of stuff was replaced. Finally, that auto shop was ditched for a small mom and pop shop. They found the corroded ground strap right off the bat.

Shit "mechanics" are shit.

Check the basics, once it dies does it have spark and fuel pressure?

That's what I would suggest checking also.

A multimeter will be your best friend in this situation. Test both ends, if able to, you want to ensure continuity throughout the wires, and you can get a perfectly good reading on one end, but the other might be lower, the inconsistency could be minor but enough to cause problems.

Sounds electrical.  I've never owned a shitty Dodge.  Does the hood have any air intake shit on it by chance?

I've seen corroded/oily/loose engine block grounds do this before. Also, might be worth connecting a fuel pressure gauge to the fuel rail and monitor it (run the fuel pressure gauge/hose from the engine bay and out from under the car, then shut the hood, etc). A fire extinguisher can be a great idea when playing with fuel, electrical, and stuff like that.

I would replace the ground

The ground is what I was going with as it would explain the odd electrical issue.  I just feel like that can't be it, it's just too simple...  Maybe it's that way, but I just can't believe it, it's not my luck with this stuff...  Ever.

I am not a mechanic, I know enough to keep my own stuff going for the most part.  I've rebuilt engines both small and large, re-wired TBI to MPFI, socketed ECUs for a secondary EPROM to rescale VVT fuel and ignition maps.  I'm not completely helpless here.  This one is just pissing me off as its electrical.  I've seen electrical repairs gone bad...  (New car, dealership stripped entire harness for over a year before junking a brand new VW!)

Fuck electrical problems.

ground the block to the  body

if what you are saying is that the engine won't start with the hood closed,
take a sheet of thick plastic like they use to cover the ground with and cover the underside of the hood so nothing except the hindges, and the latch, which you can poke through the plastic, touches anything with the engine or the frame.



close hood then try to start it.
if it starts, then there is some short occuring between the hood and the engine.
- reason for insulating everthing and then closing the hood, is that the hood and the latch should all be connected to ground anyway. it shouldn't make any difference if it is open or closed
is there any light in the engine compartment or hood open sensor or anything like that? you have to check those then too.



       


 

It's just a standard plain everyday normal stock Durango 4.7L.  Well, it's got a 2" T&S lift and 4.56 gearing.

This is not fuel related AFAIK.  It is a complete and immediate loss of the ignition and just lets the engine coast to a stop.  After it dies it will crank and crank but not fire.  If it does fire it then will try to catch but won't, then finally roar to life and sound fine.  Checked the common PCM failure by wiggling it and it's wires around a good bit, no change at all.  Is that 100% no, but it would reflect the failure of some soldering inside that is not reachable to repaired from what I've gathered.

I only use it for cutting firewood.  We're in the best time of the year to cut wood.  Need to get this running.  I can't be 5-10 miles inside a national forest and have it die.  There is no easy way to explain where I am and how to get to me unless you have the forest service road maps.  That's if the tow guy can read and follow a map in a forest where it all looks the same.

If its not a ground, and not the fuel pump its probably the 15 year old computer dieing. Buy a refurbished one on ebay for cheap.

I did check the light on the hood as soon as figured out what was going on here.  It made no difference if I disconnected it or not.

The wiring is not touching anything.  The hood as far as I can tell is not touching anything underneath and does have the factory insulation mat under the hood also.

I also found that it only dies out when I get the latch it self to make contact.  It doesn't even have to be shut all the way is what I mean.  There's nothing sticking up that could be shorting out to the hood.  The hood is connected to the body which is grounded...  Wait a minute I wonder if the body ground has fallen apart.  I'll have to check that also.  That's would be something I haven't thought of until now.

sounds like a coil failure, it will run until it get hot and then die out.... let it cool off and it will start up again.

That would throw a miss fire code.

That's a good idea, which one?  There are a multitude of them due to Chrysler's infinite wisdom.
Although I can get parts at cost, it's also a firewood truck that isn't worth $1000 I'm a for replacing everything I have for under $200.  Starts going to hundreds more and I'll just junk it.

I'm going to replace all grounds and see what's what then.  Thanks for the ideas it helps to get me thinking what I've missed.

if there is a switch to a sensor/hood open light, disconnect the wires to the switch in case there is a bad connection or short in the switch that is causing an alternate path for current.



if the truck won't start with the hood latch touching the latch mechanism, have the hood up, connect a jumper cable from the hood latch to the latch mechanism, then try to start it.



just trying to eliminate things.





       
 

LOL my 'Pop and I were laughing about just leaving the hood off it since it's never run on the road anyway.

Would injector pulse cause a loss of ignition without throwing codes though?  I can't imagine that not causing a misfire code.

Will check into it.  Thanks for the idea

The computer you need is an ECM

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1998-2003-DODGE-DURANGO-COMPUTER-ENGINE-MODULE-ECM-PCM-ECU-/271793783874?fits=Year%3A2000%7CMake%3ADodge%7CModel%3ADurango%7CEngine+-+Liter_Display%3A4.7L&hash=item3f482c0442&vxp=mtr

Why woukd one injector cause the whole engine to die?!???

Injectors go out one by one. One cant cause this issue. Your barking up the wrong tree.

Get a wiring diagram for the engine electrical (possibly chassis too, ECM grounds often included in chassis wiring) and check every ground on it.

Sorry, it will suck, but that's how you will nail the problem. Based on what you've said, it sounds like a grounding issue - loose connector or rusted/rotting cable.

Don't know about the 2000 Chrysler systems, but if it's a batch fire injection design, a whole bank of injectors can go out if the harness ground is lost. 4 injectors dead at once can kill the engine.

I had a Jeep come in to my shop earlier this week that would shut down while driving down the road and sometimes quit when the hood was shut.....

I found a broken - yes broken not blown - fuse in the fuse panel under the hood. Even though it tested fine it would slightly lose connection internally when the car hit a bump or the hood was closed. The crack in the fuse was so small I needed a magnifying glass to see it....

Good luck OP.

Sounds like a ghetto Dodge. Won't work if it is in the hood!

op I can't remember off the top of my head, is it multi port injection or a TBI setup? normally you won't see a multipart take all the injectors at one shot, unless its hurt the driver in the computer, but on TBI  one injector can cause a die just as you describe..its easy to test without a noid light, on TBI, when it dies, just pop air cleaner off and shine a flashlight at the base of the injectors, if they are flowing its obvious, if no flow, then you need a noid light(plugs in place of the injector) or fish into the connector with a DVOM and check for voltage under crank(1 lead to each injector wire gets ground and power)..always diagnose the basics first, check actual spark with a spare spark plug, then for fuel, then for compression(this doesn't sound like compression) sounds electrical/fuel related to me...grounds should always be a first check as well since they can get easily damaged under the hood..but this doesn't sound like a general ground to me.....

See if there is a electrical switch for the hood and try pressing it with the hood open and trunk running. Some anittheft things act funny

Actually they can, on a TBI motor 1 injector fail can kill a motor . and on a multipart you can loose the ground on 1 bank, or overheat the drivers in the computer(which run the injectors) and it will cause a stall..multiport  injectors  issues are rare though..., normally just drop 1 cylinder, although a classic example of a failure is the 99 gm pickup with the spider injector setup in the cam galley under the intake..

Could be the culprit.

When was the last time you rotated your spark plugs?

on my 03 4.7 durango the is a ground on the back side of the passenger side head.

Sometimes the fuel pumps are intermittent.

Wiggle test

Have had similar problems on two chrysler products in the past. First one was very intermittent. only when car was warmed up would occasionally die or run rough. Died one day and the wife had it towed home. Put the scan tool on it and ran it a little while and it started acting up. Lucky enough to have the page pulled up for the crankshaft and camshaft sensor. You either get a yes or no for both these sensors. Camshaft sensor was flickering yes/no. Got out the shop manual and started reading that on chrysler the only two sensors that won't store a fault code are the cam and crank sensors. Advance auto guy warned me to buy these sensors from the dealer. That its a 50/50 with Bosch sensors on chryslers. Very sensitive to the way the coils are wound in the sensors. Changed it an solved years of problems and never had another issue. Second deal was with 3.0 liter. Sometimes would hit a bump and engine would go to idle. This particular car only had an EGR valve installed if it was sold in California. But it did not have the valve installed. Instead it had the harness connector taped and tied up to to the harness. A stainless steel braided flex pipe bypassed where the EGR valve should have been. After an episode of the car acting up again I went out looking around and noticed one of the stainless wires in the braids of the crossover was broken and the ends of the wire was melted into round balls on the tips of the wires. Curious? The I noticed the unused electrical connector tape had gotten old and came loose. The plug was dangling several inches above the spot with the burned wire braid. Looked at the end of the plug and noticed one of the pins on the plug had been arcing. I srurmise that hitting a good bump was enough to cause the plug to go down and hit the crossover pipe and short out long enough to cause the engine to idle and then spring back up. Taped up the connector and secured back in place. Never had anymore problems. This one was a pain and took a while to figure out. But with the first one that the computer would not store crank/camshaft faults. Lucky that I had that page pulled up when it started acting up. Problem only occurred every several months at first and would work fine for long periods of time. Progressively got worse over time. The second one the loose shorting plug only seemed to occur crossing over railroad tracks. Again would likely still be looking for something if I had not noticed the burn mark on the crossover pipe braid. Sometime it's good to unhook your brain and look at everything when you have a lot of time and are relaxed. Unusual that nether problem stored a code. But I think we are getting a bad ride down the automation highway. Some time just takes using the old way's to find problems. Dealers don't find a code and want to kick it down the road.

When ever I buy a new vehicle I always buy a heavy battery cable at the parts store with lugs on each end for bolts. I bolt one end to the block and other to the frame. The battery cables on new cars are junk. To try and save money the use a single ground cable that runs from the ground post to the frame then to the block. Usually the clamp at the frame or engine is cheap. Overtime they corrode and get a bad connection. The high load on the starter is going to start using other ground paths when starting. You will start finding bad small ground wires between the engine or frame. Usually look overheated or completely burned off. Do a separate jumper from block to frame. Usually can use a bolt on the engine mount engine side and a bolt on the engine mount frame side for the jumper. Remember the rubber mounts are what are causing your grounding problem. Starter sucks a lot of amps on cranking. Might also get a new battery ground cable and connect direct to the engine block and run another heavy cable jumper to the frame from this point. Can never have enough grounds. Use to do electrical work on cars and heavy trucks. This is a fairly common problem as vehicles get older.

For Chrysler/Jeep you want to use OEM sensors.  OP you mentioned you were a parts dealer and I'm guessing you used whatever your supplier had and that wasn't Mopar.  Get a Mopar CPS and you likely have your issue fixed.  Aftermarket sensors for Chrylser just don't seem up to spec which is sad for the consumer.

Is it possible that the battery is making contact on the hood causing a short?  I had this happen on my Porsche 944.

Get covers for you battery terminals if you don't already have them, and look for little burn spots on the hood just above the battery terminals.