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Posted: 1/25/2015 4:30:27 PM EDT
Just as in the title, when did trigger discipline really start up? I know very few guys outside of the black rifle world (aka fudds of all ages) that practice it, including my old man. Muzzle awareness, safety on until ready to shoot, and an empty chamber most of the time if not unloaded, they'll be all over but NOT trigger discipline... The ones I have asked just kinda go
Anyone got any insight on this? |
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Posted: 1/25/2015 4:32:32 PM EDT
[#1]
Mid to late 90s.
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Posted: 1/25/2015 4:46:31 PM EDT
[#2]
Finger sticking out straight alongside the trigger guard is recent. Keeping your finger off the trigger has been around forever.
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Posted: 1/25/2015 4:50:51 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Finger sticking out straight alongside the trigger guard is recent. Keeping your finger off the trigger has been around forever. "keep your finger STRAIGHT and off the trigger until you are ready to shoot" learned that before my teens.... and again with my little tank.. |
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Posted: 1/25/2015 4:52:59 PM EDT
[#4]
When I see people who don't have trigger/muzzle discipline, I finish up and leave or, or ask the RSO to fix it.
I've seen just as many problems with the Glock/AR crowd as I do with those shooting bolt or shotgun "Fudd" guns. The exception is the month prior to hunting season. There seems to be a lot of rusty shooter sloppy with safety at that time. Most of the problems are new shooters without proper instruction and supervision. Edit, I've never run into people like the old timers OP is describing. If I did, I'd leave and never shoot with them again. You usually can't teach old stubborn dogs new tricks, and unsafe is unsafe. |
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Posted: 1/25/2015 4:54:22 PM EDT
[#5]
Cooper certainly popularized the four rules.
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Posted: 1/25/2015 4:55:42 PM EDT
[#6]
When ARFCOM started chastising people for not doing it.
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Posted: 1/25/2015 5:14:17 PM EDT
[#7]
Since they were invented.
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Posted: 1/25/2015 5:16:04 PM EDT
[#8]
1987.
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Posted: 1/25/2015 5:20:33 PM EDT
[#9]
I thnk we have Cooper to thank for the trigger outside of the trigger guard thing, it really picked up in the '80s. The trigger discipline in movies like "Saving Private Ryan" is an anachronism.
The current trend for the staright finger up and above the trigger guard is just derpy derptitude. |
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Posted: 1/25/2015 5:22:45 PM EDT
[#10]
Been a way of life in the duck blind when I first started hunting in 82. And that was preached by the old timers so I will say saftey has been around forever. The goofs that lack it are part time shooters or first timers that don't know any better. I know when I take the kids shooting I watch them like a hawk and point out safety all the time. Part of safety of course is finger disipline.
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Posted: 1/25/2015 5:25:07 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Been a way of life in the duck blind when I first started hunting in 82. And that was preached by the old timers so I will say saftey has been around forever. The goofs that lack it are part time shooters or first timers that don't know any better. I know when I take the kids shooting I watch them like a hawk and point out safety all the time. Part of safety of course is finger disipline. Hunter Safety courses is actually one of the first things I saw it formally adopted in, related to the "you cant depend on your safety - it's a mechanical device and can fail" meme. it took Cooper to get it from Hunter Safety to "tactical" shooters. As recently as the mid '90s, the Army's training manual had a goober with a death grip on the trigger on the cover. 
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Posted: 1/25/2015 5:27:42 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I thnk we have Cooper to thank for the trigger outside of the trigger guard thing, it really picked up in the '80s. The trigger discipline in movies like "Saving Private Ryan" is an anachronism. The current trend for the staright finger up and above the trigger guard is just derpy derptitude. I remember reading a letter to the editor in G&A back in the 90s where the guy was saying that if you just had your finger outside of the trigger guard pressure from your finger pushing laterally against the front of the trigger guard could be enough to engage the double action trigger pull. It was my first exposure to the derp. |
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Posted: 1/25/2015 5:28:40 PM EDT
[#13]
I'll be the first to admit, I never payed much attention to it before I saw my first "bugger hook on the bang switch" bashing on here.
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Posted: 1/25/2015 5:53:41 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hunter Safety courses is actually one of the first things I saw it formally adopted in, related to the "you cant depend on your safety - it's a mechanical device and can fail" meme. it took Cooper to get it from Hunter Safety to "tactical" shooters. As recently as the mid '90s, the Army's training manual had a goober with a death grip on the trigger on the cover. http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTYwMFgxMjc2/$(KGrHqRHJFEFBmWB!6bEBQbNR(r7VQ~~60_1.JPG Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Been a way of life in the duck blind when I first started hunting in 82. And that was preached by the old timers so I will say saftey has been around forever. The goofs that lack it are part time shooters or first timers that don't know any better. I know when I take the kids shooting I watch them like a hawk and point out safety all the time. Part of safety of course is finger disipline. Hunter Safety courses is actually one of the first things I saw it formally adopted in, related to the "you cant depend on your safety - it's a mechanical device and can fail" meme. it took Cooper to get it from Hunter Safety to "tactical" shooters. As recently as the mid '90s, the Army's training manual had a goober with a death grip on the trigger on the cover. http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTYwMFgxMjc2/$(KGrHqRHJFEFBmWB!6bEBQbNR(r7VQ~~60_1.JPG Well, if you are talking about Clinton's Army, there was no money to train, man or equip an adequate Army. So there's no point in discussing the semantics of what the doctrine was. They were too busy firing people to focus on training or manuals. |
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Posted: 1/25/2015 6:30:39 PM EDT
[#15]
I seem to remember it as being right around the time Glock fans started legging themselves left and right.
Guns with a manual safety had one more step between stupid and injured/dead. Not dissing glock, just it was the first handgun I can think of with a reasonably light trigger and no manual safety that requires a separate action to disable. |
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Posted: 1/25/2015 6:56:50 PM EDT
[#16]
I remember it starting up commonly in '94. Probably earlier but that is when I remeber it being "commonplace".
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Posted: 1/25/2015 6:58:48 PM EDT
[#17]
Don't see why it's a bad thing.
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Posted: 1/25/2015 6:59:57 PM EDT
[#18]
I learned muzzle control from my grandfather at age 4 - I had a plastic rifle that fired a fat hollow plastic bb.
He threatened to beat my ass if I swept him again. He meant it  . Lesson learned!
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Posted: 1/25/2015 7:04:52 PM EDT
[#19]
I once got flamed for lack of trigger discipline on a single action revolver
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Posted: 1/25/2015 7:10:56 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, if you are talking about Clinton's Army, there was no money to train, man or equip an adequate Army. So there's no point in discussing the semantics of what the doctrine was. They were too busy firing people to focus on training or manuals. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Been a way of life in the duck blind when I first started hunting in 82. And that was preached by the old timers so I will say saftey has been around forever. The goofs that lack it are part time shooters or first timers that don't know any better. I know when I take the kids shooting I watch them like a hawk and point out safety all the time. Part of safety of course is finger disipline. Hunter Safety courses is actually one of the first things I saw it formally adopted in, related to the "you cant depend on your safety - it's a mechanical device and can fail" meme. it took Cooper to get it from Hunter Safety to "tactical" shooters. As recently as the mid '90s, the Army's training manual had a goober with a death grip on the trigger on the cover. http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTYwMFgxMjc2/$(KGrHqRHJFEFBmWB!6bEBQbNR(r7VQ~~60_1.JPG Well, if you are talking about Clinton's Army, there was no money to train, man or equip an adequate Army. So there's no point in discussing the semantics of what the doctrine was. They were too busy firing people to focus on training or manuals. Cover dates back to the Reagan Era, that particular manual the Bush admin. But, good on you for showing another way to turn a simple technical discussion into GD derp. |
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Posted: 1/25/2015 7:13:11 PM EDT
[#21]
About the time that Glocks got really popular, roughly early 90's.
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Posted: 1/25/2015 7:15:52 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Finger sticking out straight alongside the trigger guard is recent. Keeping your finger off the trigger has been around forever. this. when i was a kid, dad taught me to keep it below the trigger guard. |
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Posted: 1/25/2015 7:22:39 PM EDT
[#23]
1911, AR.. Finger on trigger, thumb on safety is natural feeling. Old school when getting ready to shoot. Safety stays on until just before ready to shoot.
Glock, M&P etc.. Finger off trigger = only way it can be done in safest manner. The real answer is: Points at head--- This is my trigger ! 
Straight finger thing is more recent due to a significant number of firearms without external safety's. |
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Posted: 1/25/2015 8:49:13 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
1911, AR.. Finger on trigger, thumb on safety is natural feeling. Old school when getting ready to shoot. Safety stays on until just before ready to shoot. Glock, M&P etc.. Finger off trigger = only way it can be done in safest manner. The real answer is: Points at head--- This is my trigger !
Straight finger thing is more recent due to a significant number of firearms without external safety's. This for me too. For my bolt guns, and shotguns, I mostly just hold them behind the trigger guard until it's time to make some noise. |
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Posted: 1/25/2015 8:56:03 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Finger sticking out straight alongside the trigger guard is recent. Keeping your finger off the trigger has been around forever. This^ My Father, who learned to shoot in the 40's, taught me in the 60's, " Don't touch the trigger until you're ready to shoot" And My Boy Scout Master circa 1971, the old WWII Gunny; " Keep your Damn Booger hook off the trigger until you're on target!" And the Drill Sergeants at Sand Hill in the late 70's. 
ETA: Smart folks, especially experienced hunters, have always had, and taught, good trigger discipline. Here's a photo, of my Paternal Grandparents showing good trigger discipline sometime in the early 50's Note Grandpas classic hunters carry; trigger secure from brush & branches. 
Final Edit: Ma reversed the slide when she scanned it, Grandpa didn't have a left handed gun, and the steering wheel is on the wrong side....
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Posted: 1/25/2015 9:52:38 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Cooper certainly popularized the four rules. Im sure I just saw a picture of Cooper and 3 other fellows in an old picture posing for the camera. All of them had their finger on the trigger. 
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Posted: 1/25/2015 9:55:26 PM EDT
[#27]
The straight finger thing looks awkward as hell with women who have small fingers on AR's and the like. Still outside the trigger guard and along the frame/receiver is best.
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Posted: 1/25/2015 10:07:47 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll be the first to admit, I never payed much attention to it before I saw my first "bugger hook on the bang switch" bashing on here. This. It for sure wasn't standard military training in WWII or Vietnam. When either my grandfather or my dad would hold a gun, the finger immediately went on the trigger. Trigger discipline wasn't ingrained in me until after I started hanging out here. Now I use it on everything, power tools, spray cans, my dick, etc.
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Posted: 1/25/2015 10:18:54 PM EDT
[#29]
I learned from my granddaddy and father. But I think the laymen and press picked up on It more was during the Elian Gonzalez incident and photo on Time magazine.
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