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Posted: 1/19/2015 8:41:51 PM EDT
[#1]
Couldn't be any worse than a Russian response.
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Posted: 1/19/2015 8:45:14 PM EDT
[#2]
Numb nuts in chief would pay them off first.
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Posted: 1/19/2015 8:46:32 PM EDT
[#3]
Well.....for one......we now have a President today who seems to favor terrorists......especially those of a certain religious persuasion ......so I guess that answers that question.
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Posted: 1/19/2015 8:46:51 PM EDT
[#4]
Well Ospreys seem like they might be useful.
And everybody who makes another cliche post after this about Obama being the big difference desires to be a model for a Tom of Finland dirty sanchez scene. |
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Posted: 1/19/2015 8:47:07 PM EDT
[#5]
The CV-22 would prove its worth.
ETA beat by mere seconds. |
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Posted: 1/19/2015 8:47:40 PM EDT
[#6]
Since we managed to find a president actually WORSE than Carter...
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Posted: 1/19/2015 8:47:42 PM EDT
[#7]
We had Carter then, and we have Carter now.
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Posted: 1/19/2015 8:47:45 PM EDT
[#8]
It would be the same or worse. That failed raid was the wake up call that made our special forces what they are today.
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Posted: 1/19/2015 8:47:53 PM EDT
[#9]
invalid question.
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Posted: 1/19/2015 8:47:54 PM EDT
[#10]
Who knows all the goodies that SOAR has that we don't know about.
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Posted: 1/19/2015 8:48:35 PM EDT
[#11]
I doubt if Obama would have the balls to even let a rescue attempt take place.
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Posted: 1/19/2015 8:49:17 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
I realize the failed attempt changed the way the military prepared for things like that. How much better are we at conducting an operation like that today? Where the fuck can I get a rocket assisted C 130? Lock Mart |
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Posted: 1/19/2015 8:50:55 PM EDT
[#13]
Everyone interested in this should read the book "The guts to try".
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Posted: 1/19/2015 8:50:59 PM EDT
[#14]
If Bush (father or son) or Reagan was in office, it would have been pulled off. With Best Dear Leader, we would have surrendered.
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Posted: 1/19/2015 8:52:20 PM EDT
[#15]
FBHO hasn't gutted our SOF capability lthe way Carter and Stansfield Turner did
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Posted: 1/19/2015 8:53:55 PM EDT
[#16]
As awful as it sounds,I think the Desert One failure was a terrible blessing in disguise. I have severe doubts that the entire plan would have worked,many,many more lives would have been lost and there would have only been political will to accept defeat as no way would Carter have risked a full blown war with Iran.
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Posted: 1/19/2015 8:54:16 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I doubt if Obama would have the balls to even let a rescue attempt take place. Not for nothing, but Osama bi Laden was killed on Obama's watch. I think, IMHO, if that operation failed the consequences would be A LOT worse than what happened in Iran. |
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Posted: 1/19/2015 8:55:13 PM EDT
[#18]
How many pretty daring military special operations has Obama authorized?
Going by this thread, I would think the answer was zero. |
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Posted: 1/19/2015 8:56:07 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not for nothing, but Osama bi Laden was killed on Obama's watch. I think, IMHO, if that operation failed the consequences would be A LOT worse than what happened in Iran. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I doubt if Obama would have the balls to even let a rescue attempt take place. Not for nothing, but Osama bi Laden was killed on Obama's watch. I think, IMHO, if that operation failed the consequences would be A LOT worse than what happened in Iran. hostage rescue is more complex than assassination. way more complex. |
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Posted: 1/19/2015 8:56:20 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Who knows all the goodies that SOAR has that we don't know about. Not us. |
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Posted: 1/19/2015 9:00:19 PM EDT
[#21]
Total different world, better intel, better equipment and training.
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Posted: 1/19/2015 9:00:39 PM EDT
[#22]
Hostages rescued, a few of my cats killed, lots of dead IRG. We are quite good at what we do, silly books and news articles by so called "experts" who've never rescued a cat from a tree let alone stormed the OBJ.
18Z50 former SFAUC instructor in my former life |
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Posted: 1/19/2015 9:04:42 PM EDT
[#23]
We negotiate with terrorists now.
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Posted: 1/19/2015 9:05:07 PM EDT
[#24]
Knowing what I know - I'd say not much better.
Thats not to say that our SO Forces aren't better trained and equipped - but the Iranians haven't remained static all this time either. Their capabilities in detection, tracking, response etc would have evolved as well. You aren't going to fly to downtown undetected as you approach. And the approach is looooooooong. |
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Posted: 1/19/2015 9:06:34 PM EDT
[#25]
Much better considering the US has a much better helicopter and cargo lift capability.
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Posted: 1/19/2015 9:07:15 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Knowing what I know - I'd say not much better. Thats not to say that our SO Forces aren't better trained and equipped - but the Iranians haven't remained static all this time either. Their capabilities in detection, tracking, response etc would have evolved as well. You aren't going to fly to downtown undetected as you approach. And the approach is looooooooong. You should probably read about the mission. They weren't flying downtown. They were driving. |
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Posted: 1/19/2015 9:07:43 PM EDT
[#27]
Jimma atleast gave an order to try. have no doubt that Obama would avoid any decision and golf.
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Posted: 1/19/2015 9:07:51 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lock Mart Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I realize the failed attempt changed the way the military prepared for things like that. How much better are we at conducting an operation like that today? Where the fuck can I get a rocket assisted C 130? Lock Mart The J has equal take off capability as non-Js equipped with JATOs |
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Posted: 1/19/2015 9:08:28 PM EDT
[#29]
I'm sure we would help out, just like we did the last time.
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Posted: 1/19/2015 9:14:43 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You should probably read about the mission. They weren't flying downtown. They were driving. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Knowing what I know - I'd say not much better. Thats not to say that our SO Forces aren't better trained and equipped - but the Iranians haven't remained static all this time either. Their capabilities in detection, tracking, response etc would have evolved as well. You aren't going to fly to downtown undetected as you approach. And the approach is looooooooong. You should probably read about the mission. They weren't flying downtown. They were driving. Weren't they flying out of downtown after they picked up the hostages? Been ages since I read about it.. but I remember them planning to move the hostages to a stadium, where the helos would pick everyone up. I also remember something about Rangers attacking an airport as a diversion. |
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Posted: 1/19/2015 9:18:22 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Weren't they flying out of downtown after they picked up the hostages? Been ages since I read about it.. but I remember them planning to move the hostages to a stadium, where the helos would pick everyone up. I also remember something about Rangers attacking an airport as a diversion. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Knowing what I know - I'd say not much better. Thats not to say that our SO Forces aren't better trained and equipped - but the Iranians haven't remained static all this time either. Their capabilities in detection, tracking, response etc would have evolved as well. You aren't going to fly to downtown undetected as you approach. And the approach is looooooooong. You should probably read about the mission. They weren't flying downtown. They were driving. Weren't they flying out of downtown after they picked up the hostages? Been ages since I read about it.. but I remember them planning to move the hostages to a stadium, where the helos would pick everyone up. I also remember something about Rangers attacking an airport as a diversion. |
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Posted: 1/19/2015 9:19:12 PM EDT
[#32]
C'mon guys, this could be a interesting thread if you'd stop dragging obama into it.
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Posted: 1/19/2015 9:21:16 PM EDT
[#33]
I don't know if it's selective memory or not but the US attempted to rescue the downed Jordanian F-16 pilot in Syria just a couple weeks ago.
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Posted: 1/19/2015 9:23:53 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You should probably read about the mission. They weren't flying downtown. They were driving. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Knowing what I know - I'd say not much better. Thats not to say that our SO Forces aren't better trained and equipped - but the Iranians haven't remained static all this time either. Their capabilities in detection, tracking, response etc would have evolved as well. You aren't going to fly to downtown undetected as you approach. And the approach is looooooooong. You should probably read about the mission. They weren't flying downtown. They were driving. They were trucking aircraft to the soccer stadium for the egress? I didn't know that. |
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Posted: 1/19/2015 9:26:59 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't know if it's selective memory or not but the US attempted to rescue the downed Jordanian F-16 pilot in Syria just a couple weeks ago. Obama has authorized several rescue attempts over the years. It's hilarious how many guys still seem to think he would never let such a thing be attempted due to lack of a nutsack lol |
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Posted: 1/19/2015 9:27:19 PM EDT
[#36]
IMO
Dudes today would pull it off |
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Posted: 1/19/2015 9:28:18 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
IMO Dudes today would pull it off dudes then would have pulled it off, too. 
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Posted: 1/19/2015 9:31:26 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Obama has authorized several rescue attempts over the years. It's hilarious how many guys still seem to think he would never let such a thing be attempted due to lack of a nutsack lol Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I don't know if it's selective memory or not but the US attempted to rescue the downed Jordanian F-16 pilot in Syria just a couple weeks ago. Obama has authorized several rescue attempts over the years. It's hilarious how many guys still seem to think he would never let such a thing be attempted due to lack of a nutsack lol The POTUS normally does not direct the employment of the National Mission Force, that is the purview of the head of the CIA who is the Combatant Commander for the War on Terrorism; POTUS only is required to make the call on certain things. |
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Posted: 1/19/2015 9:33:55 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm sure we would help out, just like we did the last time.  |
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Posted: 1/19/2015 9:41:57 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We negotiate with terrorists now. We've negotiated with terrorists for years. Remember why this guy is famous?  |
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Posted: 1/19/2015 9:45:22 PM EDT
[#41]
Obama would build the Iranians a new prison to house the hostages in to show all concerned that he cares.
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Posted: 1/19/2015 9:45:56 PM EDT
[#42]
Obama in an Osprey would dominate their asses.
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Posted: 1/19/2015 9:51:11 PM EDT
[#43]
Strongly worded letters?
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Posted: 1/19/2015 9:54:52 PM EDT
[#44]
IMHO the problem then wasn't the people on the ground, but the equipment and pilots. After all you had Delta and Rangers going in, granted Delta was still in its infancy, but they had well-trained shooters. I think the best thing to come out of that was the SOAR.
Today you have a dedicated air wing for this type thing that has the equipment and training to pull off the aerial side. Back then it was a bunch of Navy Pilots who had never flown in the desert, flying Helicopters designed to operate in a marine environment, not for the desert. It was the helicopters that caused the problems, by either crashing (pilot error due to lack of visibility and lack of desert landing experience) or just breaking down. I don't remember exactly how many had mechanical issues but i think at least 2 didn't make Desert One, and they left several on the ground after the crash with the EC130. Just transplanting proper air equipment in there would have made a huge difference. Not to mention the fact that we now have operators that have a lot of combat experience (something the Delta and Rangers guys didn't have a lot of at the time). Can't speak much for whether it would definitely be a success once they got there, but today they would have at least made it to the hostage site. |
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Posted: 1/19/2015 9:57:37 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As awful as it sounds,I think the Desert One failure was a terrible blessing in disguise. I have severe doubts that the entire plan would have worked,many,many more lives would have been lost and there would have only been political will to accept defeat as no way would Carter have risked a full blown war with Iran. it was a complicated stupid ass plan created so several branches could grab some glory. it should have been developed with nothing but simple principles and success of mission in mind an it could have worked. |
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Posted: 1/19/2015 10:00:29 PM EDT
[#46]
From what I've read, I'd say we'd do much better now that Delta has dedicated air resources instead of the pissing match that they had back then with MUST US navy air power and pilots who really didn't wanna be there.
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Posted: 1/19/2015 10:02:53 PM EDT
[#47]
There won't be a rescue attempt under Obama.
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Posted: 1/19/2015 10:08:11 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Numb nuts in chief would pay them off first. You mean pray with them? |
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Posted: 1/19/2015 10:09:15 PM EDT
[#49]
Story I remember was that the helo's were to be left behind so the navy gave them ones that were on there last legs anyways...why leave good aircraft. I bet that was a big reason for the failed attempt.
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Posted: 1/19/2015 10:10:15 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
IMHO the problem then wasn't the people on the ground, but the equipment and pilots. After all you had Delta and Rangers going in, granted Delta was still in its infancy, but they had well-trained shooters. I think the best thing to come out of that was the SOAR. Today you have a dedicated air wing for this type thing that has the equipment and training to pull off the aerial side. Back then it was a bunch of Navy Pilots who had never flown in the desert, flying Helicopters designed to operate in a marine environment, not for the desert. It was the helicopters that caused the problems, by either crashing (pilot error due to lack of visibility and lack of desert landing experience) or just breaking down. I don't remember exactly how many had mechanical issues but i think at least 2 didn't make Desert One, and they left several on the ground after the crash with the EC130. Just transplanting proper air equipment in there would have made a huge difference. Not to mention the fact that we now have operators that have a lot of combat experience (something the Delta and Rangers guys didn't have a lot of at the time). Can't speak much for whether it would definitely be a success once they got there, but today they would have at least made it to the hostage site. the best thing that came out of that was JSOC |
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