Is there an online source that I can use to learn how to work with elevations? As in excavation, footings and such? I've been a laborer/carpenter (more laborer) for 30 years and I've never really had to worry about learning how to read elevations in 10ths and it confuses the fuck outta me. I've always just followed the foreman doing layout and set the forms to his stakes.

I've never really been good at math, along with my self diagnosed ADD/ADHD/PMS whatever, but I'd like to teach myself how to work with elevations.

As many of you who work construction may know, there isn't a lot of time for a foreman to teach me nor is there a lot of patience on the part of foreman to teach someone something like this even tho it would benefit them in the long run, so I prefer to teach myself away from the jobsite.

So, whaddya got? A website or some other source that would have tests/quizzes and the like would be best so I can learn from making mistakes.

TIA guys!

Can you be a bit more specific?

Tenths are easy. 1/10 of a foot is 1.2".

Sounds like maybe you are asking about surveying, as in shooting grade?

I do this for a living.

Aways multiple by 87-3.14

Multiply the decimal by 12 to get inches.

Ok, here you go
1"=.08
2"=.17
3"=.25
4"=.33
5"=.42
6"=.50
7"=.58
8"=.67
9"=.75
10"=.83
11"=.92

like i used to tell my gradechecker and what i was told when i was a young gradechecker..10ths are easy..its like our money system

www.youtube.com/watch?v=76IzVVX_FPI

http://www.gradecheckingpress.com/

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Construction-Contractors-1093/2008/12/online-grade-checking-exercises.htm

If you figure 100ths of a foot as 1/8 " you will be close enough for government work.

You will be 1/2" short per foot.

This can be allowed for by just using 25-50-75 as 3-6-9 inches and then add 1/8" for every hundredth above. At that rate, you're difference will be at most 1/8" from perfect.

No bullshit.

HOLD ON, WRAPPING HEAD WITH DUCT TAPE.....

Yes, this. Every jobsite has a benchmark of "100" somewhere as a reference point for everything (grade, top of footing, top of wall, etc). Part of my problem is probably that I haven't worked with this type of measuring at all and that's why it's so confusing for me. It's really frustrating and that's why I want to learn more. I'm not stupid by any means but this number system just fucks with my head, that's why I need practice.

For instance: today the job Supe asked me "is the top of that pier 98.6?" And I'm like "Fuck if I know" I kind feel like an idiot ya know?

Yea, no shit.

Makes me feel like an idiot. Especially since I've been in the biz for 30 years.

What are you trying to learn how to do?  Shoot grades using a benchmark?  Are you trying to use a laser or a level or a transit?  

Maybe be a little more specific on what you are trying to learn how to do.

Thanks!
I'll be checking these out this weekend.

Typically we use a laser (laser transit?)

But yea, shooting heights for footings basically but we also shoot heights for our poured walls.

I have a "cheat sheet" for converting tenths in to fractions. That and a calculator have kept me within a 1/10 of an inch for many years.

I am a GC that does commercial and light civil work.   To convert from tenths to inches you multiply the tenth by 12.  IE, 96.6' is 96 feet 12 x .6 = 7.2" or 96' 7 3/16" (roughly).


Here is a page that gives you conversions the other way and also has a calculator for this:
http://daveosborne.com/dave/articles/decimal-feet.php

Be careful with the 100.00 elevation. In most places that is a base elevation, not actual elevation. All survey benchmarks are actual elevations. In Florida you have to be careful because 100.00' could be real or base and can be real bad to f up and end up below the flood plain.

Get a construction master calculator and you can convert tenths to inches , also get a metric grade stick and learn how to read it , metric calcs are easier than foot/inches once you figure it out !

1.4 (~1' 4 13/16") below your benchmark, aka what your rod will read.

Some how my total station is almost always setup on point 1000,1000,1000.

Good advice. Construction Master Pro calculator app is the best $25.00 you can spend.

Sounds like you would just be doing very simple layout for footings and shit? Long as you understand the base benchmark and the dimensions above/below that, it's easier and less likely to make errors with a story pole. I always made a habit of also marking my offset for instrument someplace just in case some knuckle head kicked the level.

Its great you want to learn but if you haven't learned any of it in 30 years its going to be tough.

Oh and up is down, down is up

Mine was always 5000,5000 and the building somehow miraculously ended up perfectly N/S oriented.
Everyone was always suprised how quickly I could calc new points

You just have to practice it.

I don't use 10ths either, but some excavators do and it can cause miscommunication.

Lol

You've been in the business for 30 years and you're asking how to convert tenths to inches?

I repeat...LOL.

Survey is intense. Very much intenths.

Carpenters and laborers doing formwork dont normally use 10ths feet anywhere Ive ever worked. The layout/survey guys do however they normally provide elevation benchmarks in either whole feet or in feet inches for the rest of us. The only exposure I have to 10ths feet is from taking an intro to total station class , talking to survey assholes who dont speak in feet/inches and having had to decrypt some of the structural drawings on a job run by morons who were too disorganized to provide the field crews with drawings that only pertained to the formwork.

Don't be a jerk, OP has said he had comprehension problems with math.  The man is trying to better himself so go shit elsewhere.

Who's being the jerk?

I gave him a poor man's formula that will get him close and then told him how to minimize his deviation.


Look at his response and tell me who's the jerk.

I had carpenters that were in the business for decades.  Tenths was a sure fire way to fuck them up.  IIRC they pulled layout on a building using an engineers tape.  They couldnt figure out what happened to 10 and 11

I have purposely given guys tasks like that and then watched the ensuing hilarity.  

Don't be screwing around converting tenths and hundreds to inches  and back the other way (I know it isn't hard but it is wasting time and just something else to make a mistake with)
Get yourself a tape or rule that is in decimal feet and just use that . think of it as you would money , Feet , tenths, hundreds similar to dollars , dimes , pennies .  Working elevations with decimals is just like adding and subtracting money

Don't get a rule with decimal on one edge or side and inches on the other, many ways to make mistakes with that , look up surveying tools and get a real engineering rule with only decimal feet on it

Throw away any level rod that has inches on it , get a proper rod with feet , tenths and hundredths (engineering scale)

Yes , on a construction site you measure pipe size , lumber and bolt size with a tape measure in inches and fractions but all elevations are in decimal feet .

I worked for a Surveyor for 20+ years , when you are first exposed to decimal feet it can twist your thinking but if you work with it a bit with proper measuring tools it is really pretty simple

OP, I'm gonna try one more time to help you.

Go get a Lufkin engineers rule, catalog#1066D.

You can teach yourself on it.

Just make sure that you, and everyone else doing work on your site doesn't get 10'ths and Inches intertwined / confused. I learned that lesson, by watching somebody else's mistake, where I came out on the shit end of the deal as I was just the Mexican Dragline operator at the time. Never had much use for that guy after that till he went away a few years later.

I use a transit.

That's exactly what it is, A base/reference elevation. I understand that much. My problem comes in with working with the elevations/converting to inches.

Yup. Learned that one 30 years ago.  ;)

100 is FF  for our purposes

100.25 is 3" AFF  25 being 1/4 of 100. 100 being 1 foot. Therefore, 1/4 of 1 foot is 3".        

100.28 is 3and 3/8" AFF    I added 1/8" for every number above 25.

The difference between 25 and 28 is 3. 1/8 for each number above 25 comes out to 3/8.

Therefore, 100.28 = 3-3/8" AFF

100.50 is 6" AFF         100.62 is 7 and 1/2 " aff

100.75 is 9" AFF         100.90 is 10 and 3/4 " AFF


110.33 is 10'-4" AFF   .33 being 1/3 of 100 makes it also 1/3 of a foot, therefore 4".

See a pattern?

Your poor man's formula is clear as fucking mud.

So admitting that I'm confused makes me a jerk? I've been insulted worse by better.

I'm not a foreman. The carpenter foreman and laborer foreman typically do layout and set elevations. Sometimes the carpenter foreman will grab a different laborer to help with layout.The carpenter foreman sets the elevations since he is responsible for the outcome of the job. I'm one of the guys who follows behind and sets forms to those layout/elevation stakes.

As far as a story pole or grade stick, we typically just use a 1x3, mark the reference elevation and mark elevation changes off of that. It's not my company so I can't tell you why every foreman doesn't have an excavator/survey grade stick, nor do I care. A chunk of 8 ft 1x3 works just fine.

Any time I've had to shoot elevations on a job I was able to take a shot off of an existing footing or finished floor (with my poor man's story pole) and use that as my reference using my tape measure to mark changes in elevation, no fancy numbers needed.

I never have nor will I ever aspire to be a foreman. The difference in pay isn't worth the headaches. I can make better money after work if I desire.

I've been in the biz 30 years and did fine using a tape measure and a piece of a tree. All I'm trying to do is better understand how the numbers work. I've always sucked at math and working with numbers, not because I didn't try.

Stop converting to inches ?

Get a surveyor level rod...use that.

If they wont do that then learn the table dude posted above

1"= 0.08 ft

2"=0.17 ft

Etc etc.

Memorize it til you know off the top of your head that 7 inches=0.58'

And\or demand the surveyor give you a cut on an offset. Thats what i do, i dont trust you dirt guys to not fuck up my buildings

Thanks xanadu. It's GD, I'd actually be surprised if there wasn't one belittling response. Lots of small penises here contrary to popular ARFCOM legend.  ;)

If you are using a laser if should be pretty simple. I'm assuming this is your scenario based on what I have read so far.

Sounds like you have an established benchmark on your site. This should be the actual elevation relative to see level (or example my current project is 940.11' at finished floor). I'm assuming your drawings are like mine and everything we reference (top of footing, walls, roofs, steel) is relative to finish floor. If this is the case finish floor should be 0'-0".

Say you have a footing at -5'-6". Set your laser on your bench mark, measure up 5'-6" and set your laser to that mark and you are at the elevation for the top of your footings.

If the above scenario sounds familiar I can elaborate in more detail.

I'm gonna clue you here hoss.

I started out 35 years ago apparently about where you are now. I am not college educated and went to work straight out of high school.

Over that time span, I have advanced to the point that I now run commercial work in the 15 to 50 million dollar range and have never gone without a job if I wanted to work.

You know why? I'll tell you why.

Because I paid attention to not only what I was doing, but what others who were good at their jobs were doing and how they did it.

If I couldn't figure out the hows or whys, I'd ask, but only after I had watched long enough to pose an intelligent question so as not to waste others' time.

The one thing I never did was insult the guy who had taken the time to try to answer my question. That shows an ignorance and arrogance of a special variety.

You sir, apparently have not done what I did in your 30 years in the business and so rather than ask your co-workers or superiors, you come here to ask us.

The examples I gave are not rocket science as I have used this exact formula to help many others to understand and the vast majority have caught on quickly. This assumes a basic understanding of fractions and the simple ability to convert a very few, simple decimals to them i.e.  .50 = 1/2 = 6" or .25 = 1/4 = 3".   Not exactly theoretical astrophysics wouldn't you agree?

I took the time more than once here even after your first snide comment on my attempt to assist you to show you a simple way to accomplish your objective and now you have once again insulted me for my attempt.

I wish you luck, but I fear it will in fact be luck for you to find much help due in no small part to your lack of manners. We still have those in KY and don't think much of those who don't.

Perhaps you have found your niche and should resign yourself to the fact.





 

It sounds like maybe you run into problems when the elevations are in tenths, but your tree and tape measure are in inches?

Take the tenths x 12 and you have inches.  If you're shooting a footing at 96.5,  then .5 x12 = 6 inches.   Measure up 3' 6" on your story pole from your 100' benchmark.

The problem is, of course, anytime someone has to do a conversion, someone is going to screw it up even if it is simple.  Not a bang on you OP, its just the way it is.  Someone thinking ahead already converted it, so your supposed to be shooting 96' 5" which got read as 96.5 and converted to 96 6".  Or the conversion gets done right and gets marked at 2' 6" or 4' 6".

10ths are easier, this post is spot on.

Makes it a whole lot easier . That's what I use.

I have a tape with both inches and tenths, one on either side.

First time I used it I kept flip flopping it, I was just trying to square up a patio and I was getting so pissed off. It took me way to long to figure out that one side only went to 10.

I disagree.

When I am trying to lay out for block (8" modular) or dry stacked block which can be any weird thickness I have to stick to feet and inches. Trying to combine the two or convert from one to the other is just annoying.

At least for my use all my transit rods are in feet and inches, makes life easier.

First and foremost, let me clear something up: My post where I agreed with xanadu that this stuff can be confusing was not meant as an insult. Contrary to your assumption, I would never insult someone trying to help me.I might be dumb, but I ain't stoopid.   It was merely an acknowledgement that this stuff confuses me. If you took that as an insult, I apologize. It wasn't meant to be one.

I will admit that this post threw me for a loop until I realized that you meant 3-6-9 = point25-point50-point75. The decimal point makes a difference, at least in my mind.



Your second post referencing FF stuff helped to clarify how the numbers work somewhat. I still need to to some homework so to speak to get the hang of working with these types of numbers, but that's why I came here to ask. Now I have the info to work with.

I started out as a laborer in residential construction. We did footings, block and concrete. It didn't take long for me to get tired of being nothing more than a gopher, so I went out and bought a set of pouches without being asked or told. I'd bust my ass to get ahead on my laborer duties, strap on my pouches and help out a carpenter who took me under his wing and showed me the ropes. Same thing when we were laying block.I 'd get everything racked out ahead, get a couple of buggies of mud mixed, and jump in between the leads and start laying block. Same with brick and stone, as well as concrete.

So I'm a laborer that can do carpenter work, lay block, brick, and stone, and finish concrete by hand as well as run a power screed, walk behind power trowels and riding power trowels. I haven't just coasted along not trying to better myself.

I got into commercial work about 18 years ago. All of my employers have utilized all of my above mentioned skills depending on which job was short handed. I like it because it provides a change of pace as opposed to going thru my working life stuck in one monotonous rut.

So, I'm sorry we had a misunderstanding and thank you for sharing your knowledge with me.

Thank you to the rest of you who provided me with helpful info also. I appreciated it.

Feel free to message me any questions you might have. I help with anything that I can.

I'm not sure I get the confusion. I know civil drawings show elevations in tenths, while most other dimensions are in feet.

Just use a pole thats in tenths with your laser or level and you're fine. If you have piers or knee walls that are on the architectural drawings in feet you might have to convert but it's still not complicated. Plenty of other people here have shown you how to convert tenths to inches and vice versa.