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Posted: 8/9/2014 9:23:21 AM EDT
[#1]
Hello Mr agent
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Posted: 8/9/2014 9:26:18 AM EDT
[#2]
You may be able to call DLA-E directly and ask for someone who deals with commercial sales (not sure they even do commercial but you could ask). Or just dope the Jet A with the additives yourself as it is pretty easy. I know that World Fuels can provide JP-8 to anyone as long as you are willing to pay for it but they are pretty expensive, I have used them many times in South America for fuels support.
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Posted: 8/9/2014 9:28:58 AM EDT
[#3]
Why the hell do you want JP-4? I don't think we've used JP-4 for anything since the mid 90s. Jeebus, it's just JetB with corrosion and icing inhibitors. And how the hell does a contractor doing .mil testing not have the ability to get some for required tests?
Your story stinks of a bullshit turd floating in a bucket of JP-8. |
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Posted: 8/9/2014 9:31:32 AM EDT
[#4]
OP, you are so funny that you are not. Please.....
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Posted: 8/9/2014 9:32:38 AM EDT
[#5]
I doubt you will fined jp4 stateside,, maybe on a carrier but I doubt you wil get any.
Jeta and jp8 are the same except for some additives the mil puts in for icing/lube/somthing else if you want to test jp4 get jetB ETA AF does not use any JP4 anywhere, and I think the navy got rid of it as well except while at sea |
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Posted: 8/9/2014 9:41:34 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I doubt you will fined jp4 stateside,, maybe on a carrier but I doubt you wil get any. Jeta and jp8 are the same except for some additives the mil puts in for icing/lube/somthing else if you want to test jp4 get jetB ETA AF does not use any JP4 anywhere, and I think the navy got rid of it as well except while at sea The Navy uses JP-5, they never used JP-4, it has too low of a flashpoint, as does JP-8 when compared to JP-4. |
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Posted: 8/9/2014 9:42:00 AM EDT
[#7]
JP-4 is out of use, and is roughly equivalent to Jet-B, which I'm pretty sure is also out of use though some engines are still rated for it.
JP-8 is single battlefield fuel and is virtually identical to Jet-A1, notice the one, A1 and JP-8 have additives for a lower freeze point than Jet-A. JP-8 has slightly more, freeze point is eight or ten degrees lower than A1, in the -60something° range IIRC vs -56°. Aviation fuel is generally available at airports, to my knowledge it requires no special qualifications to get, but everyone I "sold to" had a contract. You are unlikely to find A1 outside of arctic regions. If it'll resist diesel or kerosene it will resist Jet-A(1)/JP-8 Jet-B/JP-4 is a hell of a lot better solvent and the vapors are very nasty. |
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Posted: 8/9/2014 9:49:57 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I doubt you will fined jp4 stateside,, maybe on a carrier but I doubt you wil get any. Jeta and jp8 are the same except for some additives the mil puts in for icing/lube/somthing else if you want to test jp4 get jetB ETA AF does not use any JP4 anywhere, and I think the navy got rid of it as well except while at sea As has been stated, AF switched from JP4 to JP8 back in 1995 when the B-2 and C-17 were introduced to help reduced the chances of explosion that JP4 posed. And IIRC the Navy has used JP5 since the 1970s to avoid to reduce fuel explosion hazards in shipboard operations. JP4 was a "wide cut" fuel consisting of a roughly 50/50 mix of gasoline and kerosene. JP8 is a "white kerosene" based fuel and JP5 is a "yellow kerosene" fuel, both intended to reduce explosive characteristics by eliminating gasoline from their formulas. |
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Posted: 8/9/2014 9:50:15 AM EDT
[#9]
I'll sell you some Jet-A.
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Posted: 8/9/2014 9:58:04 AM EDT
[#10]
As has been stated JP4 has been out of normal use for ~25 years. I'm cleaning up some DOD Superfund sites that have residual JP4 & JP-8. It get's real interesting when you have JP-8(100).
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Posted: 8/9/2014 10:01:13 AM EDT
[#11]
What's that smell?
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Posted: 8/9/2014 10:01:28 AM EDT
[#12]
I've got logisitic's supply guy that handles fuel for the Army. I'll see what he knows. JP-8 now is used almost exclusively in the Army and most branches, but in the past he has indicated other fuel blends that are used on a much smaller scale.
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Posted: 8/9/2014 10:02:20 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What's that smell? POL! |
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Posted: 8/9/2014 10:02:32 AM EDT
[#14]
here's about 55 gallons (the smoke)...if you could only collect it :)
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Posted: 8/9/2014 10:03:45 AM EDT
[#15]
I have about 8 fluid ounces of JP4 from DuPont petrochemical, lot # P87-7. Don't ask why
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Posted: 8/9/2014 10:10:27 AM EDT
[#16]
I believe the last jet to use JP-4 was the U-2S due to excellent low temperature properties at extreme altitude. JP-4 use was discontinued in the mid-2000s after a series of high altitude temperature tests determined JP-8 was a satisfactory substitute. All U-2s use JP-8 now.
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Posted: 8/9/2014 10:20:33 AM EDT
[#17]
I apologize, I did not know that people would be so skeptical of my question. I can assure you that my question is legit. Please feel free to Google Aerospace Testing Corporation and also research MIL-STD-810, Method 504 and RTCA DO-160, Section 11. Our website is dated but you may better understand why I am asking the question.
Back on topic, the customer has specifically asked for the JP-4. Sometimes the military specification for the actual item may have originated in the 80's and has not been updated. I really have no control over it other than to try and meet there request. As for JP-8, it is an option, but acquisition as a civilian is the problem. It was my understanding in speaking with an aviation supply vendor that C130's still use JP-4. |
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Posted: 8/9/2014 10:23:01 AM EDT
[#18]
Running untaxed fuel in your diesel VW is illegal.
Good luck! |
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Posted: 8/9/2014 10:23:32 AM EDT
[#19]
As someone whos MOS dealt with fuel testing why in the blue hell are you looking for JP4? No one uses it, it is mostly JP8 and sometimes JP5.
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Posted: 8/9/2014 10:24:41 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I apologize, I did not know that people would be so skeptical of my question. I can assure you that my question is legit. Please feel free to Google Aerospace Testing Corporation and also research MIL-STD-810, Method 504 and RTCA DO-160, Section 11. Our website is dated but you may better understand why I am asking the question. Back on topic, the customer has specifically asked for the JP-4. Sometimes the military specification for the actual item may have originated in the 80's and has not been updated. I really have no control over it other than to try and meet there request. As for JP-8, it is an option, but acquisition as a civilian is the problem. It was my understanding in speaking with an aviation supply vendor that C130's still use JP-4. C-130s do not use JP-4, they were fueled with JP-8 but we use Jet A now. |
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Posted: 8/9/2014 10:33:11 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As someone whos MOS dealt with fuel testing why in the blue hell are you looking for JP4? No one uses it, it is mostly JP8 and sometimes JP5. As I stated above the military specification sometimes takes decades to update. Once a program is qualified the test spec is generally not changed if the product is a replacement and not a new design. The customer specifically asked for JP-4 and so have many others. Again, I normally substitute with JET A so it's not a an issue. We have some customers who we test monthly lots for and the test requirements have not changed since the 70's. |
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Posted: 8/9/2014 10:34:57 AM EDT
[#22]
Thanks GD for your input.
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Posted: 8/9/2014 10:35:59 AM EDT
[#23]
Surely there is some around where I am currently standing....
http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i457/clearwat/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsd5879512.jpg |
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Posted: 8/9/2014 10:43:28 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As someone whos MOS dealt with fuel testing why in the blue hell are you looking for JP4? No one uses it, it is mostly JP8 and sometimes JP5. Another 1391? Fuelin' the Fight, rah? |
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Posted: 8/9/2014 10:46:34 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Surely there is some around where I am currently standing.... <a href="http://s1094.photobucket.com/user/clearwat/media/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsd5879512.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i1094.photobucket.com/albums/i457/clearwat/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsd5879512.jpg</a> Yep... looks like a military base
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Posted: 8/9/2014 11:31:04 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As I stated above the military specification sometimes takes decades to update. Once a program is qualified the test spec is generally not changed if the product is a replacement and not a new design. The customer specifically asked for JP-4 and so have many others. Again, I normally substitute with JET A so it's not a an issue. We have some customers who we test monthly lots for and the test requirements have not changed since the 70's. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
As someone whos MOS dealt with fuel testing why in the blue hell are you looking for JP4? No one uses it, it is mostly JP8 and sometimes JP5. As I stated above the military specification sometimes takes decades to update. Once a program is qualified the test spec is generally not changed if the product is a replacement and not a new design. The customer specifically asked for JP-4 and so have many others. Again, I normally substitute with JET A so it's not a an issue. We have some customers who we test monthly lots for and the test requirements have not changed since the 70's. Have you tried looking into marine suppliers of fuel as well as the aircraft industry? I imagine that the comments regarding the availability of JP-4 are correct - if it has fallen out of use by the military, I doubt refineries are still making it due to the economies of scale. IIRC, the military is trying to standardize fuel to some degree across vehicle platforms, i.e. planes, ships, ground vehicles, etc. |
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Posted: 8/9/2014 11:40:43 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Running untaxed fuel in your diesel VW is illegal.
Good luck! ........and there u have it. Lol |
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Posted: 8/9/2014 12:13:49 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
C-130s do not use JP-4, they were fueled with JP-8 but we use Jet A now. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I apologize, I did not know that people would be so skeptical of my question. I can assure you that my question is legit. Please feel free to Google Aerospace Testing Corporation and also research MIL-STD-810, Method 504 and RTCA DO-160, Section 11. Our website is dated but you may better understand why I am asking the question. Back on topic, the customer has specifically asked for the JP-4. Sometimes the military specification for the actual item may have originated in the 80's and has not been updated. I really have no control over it other than to try and meet there request. As for JP-8, it is an option, but acquisition as a civilian is the problem. It was my understanding in speaking with an aviation supply vendor that C130's still use JP-4. C-130s do not use JP-4, they were fueled with JP-8 but we use Jet A now. C-130s used JP4 until sometime in the 1980s. I'm not aware of them using Jet A. JP8 has better fuel stability properties "out in the field" and is a mil spec fuel. OP I'd see if testing could shift to the two JP8 blends and JP5, that's all that should be running in military aircraft now. |
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Posted: 8/9/2014 12:17:17 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
C-130s used JP4 until sometime in the 1980s. I'm not aware of them using Jet A. JP8 has better fuel stability properties "out in the field" and is a mil spec fuel. OP I'd see if testing could shift to the two JP8 blends and JP5, that's all that should be running in military aircraft now. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I apologize, I did not know that people would be so skeptical of my question. I can assure you that my question is legit. Please feel free to Google Aerospace Testing Corporation and also research MIL-STD-810, Method 504 and RTCA DO-160, Section 11. Our website is dated but you may better understand why I am asking the question. Back on topic, the customer has specifically asked for the JP-4. Sometimes the military specification for the actual item may have originated in the 80's and has not been updated. I really have no control over it other than to try and meet there request. As for JP-8, it is an option, but acquisition as a civilian is the problem. It was my understanding in speaking with an aviation supply vendor that C130's still use JP-4. C-130s do not use JP-4, they were fueled with JP-8 but we use Jet A now. C-130s used JP4 until sometime in the 1980s. I'm not aware of them using Jet A. JP8 has better fuel stability properties "out in the field" and is a mil spec fuel. OP I'd see if testing could shift to the two JP8 blends and JP5, that's all that should be running in military aircraft now. The military is converting to Jet A right now, we are moving away from JP-8 as it offers few advantages for the additional cost of the additives. |
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Posted: 8/9/2014 12:17:25 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I apologize, I did not know that people would be so skeptical of my question. I can assure you that my question is legit. Please feel free to Google Aerospace Testing Corporation and also research MIL-STD-810, Method 504 and RTCA DO-160, Section 11. Our website is dated but you may better understand why I am asking the question. Back on topic, the customer has specifically asked for the JP-4. Sometimes the military specification for the actual item may have originated in the 80's and has not been updated. I really have no control over it other than to try and meet there request. As for JP-8, it is an option, but acquisition as a civilian is the problem. It was my understanding in speaking with an aviation supply vendor that C130's still use JP-4. BigD I work for a lab that does the same testing so I feel your pain working with outdated materials that the customer wants do to contract requirements. there is a company up in the Detroit area that I get JP 4,5,8 from the name escapes me at the moment but I purchased form the last year. I will see if I can find it on Monday and see if I cam IM it to you
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Posted: 8/9/2014 6:06:20 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
BigD I work for a lab that does the same testing so I feel your pain working with outdated materials that the customer wants do to contract requirements. there is a company up in the Detroit area that I get JP 4,5,8 from the name escapes me at the moment but I purchased form the last year. I will see if I can find it on Monday and see if I cam IM it to you Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I apologize, I did not know that people would be so skeptical of my question. I can assure you that my question is legit. Please feel free to Google Aerospace Testing Corporation and also research MIL-STD-810, Method 504 and RTCA DO-160, Section 11. Our website is dated but you may better understand why I am asking the question. Back on topic, the customer has specifically asked for the JP-4. Sometimes the military specification for the actual item may have originated in the 80's and has not been updated. I really have no control over it other than to try and meet there request. As for JP-8, it is an option, but acquisition as a civilian is the problem. It was my understanding in speaking with an aviation supply vendor that C130's still use JP-4. BigD I work for a lab that does the same testing so I feel your pain working with outdated materials that the customer wants do to contract requirements. there is a company up in the Detroit area that I get JP 4,5,8 from the name escapes me at the moment but I purchased form the last year. I will see if I can find it on Monday and see if I cam IM it to you Feb, That would be great. People don't always understand that you can spend days and weeks trying to source specified products for a 1 hour test. Thanks again all. |
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