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Posted: 1/9/2003 6:35:13 PM EDT
[#1]
Charged with a crime. No trial but his legal property seized (stolen) by the state, never to be seen again regardles of the outcome of his trial.
Anyone want to tell me again that this country hasn't become a police state in everthing but name? |
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Posted: 1/9/2003 6:41:38 PM EDT
[#2]
Uhm, not to sound reactionary, but...
I really wouldn't like an armed white horse user around. Especially when he runs low on his heroine supply. Just as I wouldn't like an armed drunk guy around. Hey, I drink, but impared judgment is impared judgment. Collector or not...sorry, but driving around with H, that's a Game Over sign. |
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Posted: 1/9/2003 6:44:55 PM EDT
[#3]
a. I'm not comfortable with drug-users having access to firearms
b. I do not believe the state (especially the police!) can confiscate your personal property without due process. The police can only enforce laws, they can't [b]make[/b] laws. |
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Posted: 1/9/2003 6:46:21 PM EDT
[#4]
not face charges on the guns but they took them away
BS fucking chicago gestapo |
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Posted: 1/9/2003 6:54:29 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted: a. I'm not comfortable with drug-users having access to firearms So, people who drink alcohol shouldn't have access to firearms, or people who smoke, or people on prescribed drugs? I |
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Posted: 1/9/2003 7:01:08 PM EDT
[#6]
Damnit [b]Hydguy[/b], you beat me to it. I fear drunk gun owners more than junkies running low for more than one reason. One big reason would be that considering the availability of alcohol, you have a much better chance of running afoul a pissed-off, illgically-minded drunk.
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Posted: 1/9/2003 7:02:46 PM EDT
[#7]
I do not agree with their last statement at all or the process. But if he is a heroine user how can he not be an addict. If he is an addict then by the wording on the "yellow form" (not sure of the number) then he can't buy a firearm. Hard to collect if you can't buy. I agree that he should not have them if he is not responsible but there should be due process to take the guns away.
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Posted: 1/9/2003 7:16:13 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted: So, people who drink alcohol shouldn't have access to firearms, or people who smoke, or people on prescribed drugs? I Would you want a drunk guy to be carrying? It's one thing if the guy has whatever at home, locked away. It's another when it's all of 5 feet from him. What if he's an angry drunk? Or a suicidal/depressed drunk? Me, I'm a happy drunk, but I still wouldn't want to be around a firearm, just in case. Cigarettes don't impare your judgment. Alcohol does. So does heroin. So can prescribed drugs, depending on the drug. It's called common sense... |
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Posted: 1/9/2003 7:33:52 PM EDT
[#9]
Funny how they always "find" a small amount of some drug...
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Posted: 1/9/2003 7:49:43 PM EDT
[#10]
I agree that I don't like the idea of anyone with impaired judgment handling firearms.
That being said it sure sounds like the concepts of due process and innocent until proven guilty have been flushed down the crapper in this case. |
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Posted: 1/9/2003 7:51:10 PM EDT
[#11]
I wonder under who's authority did they search the house(s). Something seems fishy here. Hope he didn't give them the ok to do so, and wouldn't think an arrest for drug possession would get you a warrant from a judge, but who knows in Chicago.
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Posted: 1/9/2003 8:05:11 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: Quoted: a. I'm not comfortable with drug-users having access to firearms So, people who drink alcohol shouldn't have access to firearms, or people who smoke, or people on prescribed drugs? I 1. alcohol, tobacco, and prescribed drugs are [b]not[/b] illegal. this is an important point. 2. heroin is illegal for a very good reason, it is enormously addictive. people who buy/sell/use heroin frequently/always break other laws such as robbery, assault, etc. major drug dealers have no qualms about popping people who get in their way. 3. when you drink, or are affected by prescribed medication, you shouldn't handle firearms. |
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Posted: 1/10/2003 5:38:53 AM EDT
[#13]
I think what is key here is this:
How did they start at his car, and then end up at his house, and then take all of his weapons from his house. AND, not charge him with any weapons violations? Oh yeah. It's Chicago. What the hell was I thinking? |
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Posted: 1/10/2003 5:40:03 AM EDT
[#14]
This line also pisses me off.
Police, however, say they will confiscate the guns to keep them off the street. |
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Posted: 1/10/2003 5:44:07 AM EDT
[#15]
Is possession of heroin in Chicago a felony? If so, doesn't that restrict him from owning firearms?
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Posted: 1/10/2003 5:45:48 AM EDT
[#16]
Did they find the guns first and then the heroin?
Wonder whose it is? |
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Posted: 1/10/2003 5:52:01 AM EDT
[#17]
Possession of any controlled substance anywhere in the US is a crime.
Remember that in Chicago, guns are mostly banned anyway. There are precious few exceptions. They probably confiscated the guns because the owner did not meet the legal requirements in the city. The news reporter obviously did not know what the real story was, and made some rash assumptions and reported them as "the news". It happens all the time. Lesson: If you own guns illegally, don't do drugs. |
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Posted: 1/10/2003 5:55:47 AM EDT
[#18]
I don't think that smokers should be allowed to have guns. Heroin and booze is OK though. I used to be a chain smokeer and let me tell you, there were times that I would have killed for a cigarette.
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Posted: 1/10/2003 5:58:14 AM EDT
[#19]
Is possession of heroin in Chicago a felony? If so, doesn't that restrict him from owning firearms? Has anyone noticed that this attitude (not singling you out medicmandan [:)] ) is becoming more and more prevalent in today’s society? If the crime is a felony then so be it. But as I understand he has been arrested and charged, NOT CONVICTED. Again, so much for innocent until proven guilty and due process. It's all part of the ongoing erosion of our rights. |
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Posted: 1/10/2003 6:03:50 AM EDT
[#20]
Airwolf, To back you up and give a second point of veiw, Have you noticed that everyone is being criminalized so that NO ONE will be able to own guns? How many of you boys have "heroes"
that were in Vietnam, loaded to the gills and using an M-16? Funny how everyone now is so PC. |
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Posted: 1/10/2003 6:10:14 AM EDT
[#21]
The man will get his guns back, even if they are released into someone elses custody. It IS illegal to confiscate the firearms and keep them, however, in my experience, they've always given them back AS LONG AS THE GUY GOES THROUGH THE PROCESS TO GET THEM BACK.
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Posted: 1/10/2003 6:32:17 AM EDT
[#22]
Hound, I agree totally. Just take a look at how many crimes are being classed as felonies.
I'm 45. I can remember when it was rape, armed robbery, murder, kidnapping (big things where one person deliberately hurt another) and crimes involving LARGE sums of money or property. I've said it before and I'll say it again. At the rate this is going someday it will be a misdemeanor to let your dog crap on the sidewalk and if "special circumstances" are invoked, you'll be going away for 5 to 10. Crazy? Just look at the War On (some) Drugs to see it happening. So much of the legal system is about how to generate revenue for the government and "deny your rights for the rest of your life". Nothing to do with keeping the peace or justice. The decent into hell began when the cops became “law enforcement” rather than Peace Officers. |
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Posted: 1/10/2003 6:39:48 AM EDT
[#23]
Yes the guy is a sh!tbag for having illegal drugs. He is even stupider because he is a gun collecter and should know the consequences. However, not being taken through due process is a BS load of crap IMHO!
Quoted: b. I do not believe the state (especially the police!) can confiscate your personal property without due process. The police can only enforce laws, they can't [b]make[/b] laws. [ROFL2] |
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Posted: 1/10/2003 6:57:11 AM EDT
[#24]
As posted by Evil Ed:
Uhm, not to sound reactionary, but... I really wouldn't like an armed white horse user around. Especially when he runs low on his heroine supply. Just as I wouldn't like an armed drunk guy around. Hey, I drink, but impared judgment is impared judgment. Collector or not...sorry, but driving around with H, that's a Game Over sign. Uh, Evil: I don't do drugs, nor do I condone their usage, BUT, how can YOU turn what you would "like" into Law. No, I wouldn't "like" to be around an armed drug user or a drunk either. It, however, is not MY place to shove MY wants on you. Do you have kids? Have you ever spanked your kids? (Note: I did not say "beat", I said "spanked") When your neighbor doesn't "like" to be around child "beaters", should HE be able to impose his will on you? Have you ever gone more than 20 mph over the speed limit? Mabey "I" don't want to be around such a reckless lawbreaker as yourself. Have you ever honked your horn at, or yelled out the window at a bothersome driver? That shows me that you are a volatile person and I don't "Like" being around you. Therefore, if you should be disarmed.[V] |
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Posted: 1/10/2003 7:23:44 AM EDT
[#25]
Do you know how easy it is to plant a little "evidence" in a car full of ammo?
I'd bet money that this guy's never even seen heroin. |
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Posted: 1/10/2003 6:48:08 PM EDT
[#26]
You are NOT a felon until convicted.
I am wondering about the heroine they "found" myself. The cops do illegally keep recovered stolen guns. Ask me for my police report number and how helpful the BATF was when I ask about my stolen pistol being returned. IMHO, his guns are gone for good, mebbe a new UN sculpture is on the way. With the police state the way it is now I would be thankful I wasn't beaten or maimed in the process. He is alive with a clean record so he can start his collection all over again. |
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Posted: 1/10/2003 7:00:54 PM EDT
[#27]
Oh...I thought you meant "Guns and Ammo"magazine found in car.....[;)]
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Posted: 1/10/2003 7:12:34 PM EDT
[#28]
Still, I cannot figure out how they started at his car and ended up at his house. And, if the weapons were illegal, you can be sure as shit that chicago would have charged him with a weapons violation - which they didn't.
Not to defend the use of heroin - I am more concerned with the 'seizure' of this mans weapons. |
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Posted: 1/10/2003 7:37:45 PM EDT
[#29]
[b] I do not believe the state (especially the police!) can confiscate your personal property without due process[/b]
Happens all the time thanks to the war on drugs--even without criminal convictions they nab the property in civil court--technically due process but it's a streeeetch. [b]Just take a look at how many crimes are being classed as felonies.[/b] No Sheit man! In Missouri, possession or even knowledge of a MISDEMEANOR amount of controlled substance in your home is considered a FELONY. Cops find a roach in an ashtray in your living room? You are Maintaining a Public Nuisance (class III felony, punishable with up to three years of lodging in a facility maintained by the Missouri Department of Corrections). It's too damned easy to commit a felony these days....[:(] |
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Posted: 1/10/2003 7:44:41 PM EDT
[#30]
Disregarding the obvious, that, being that this is 2003 and all, in all likelihood due process won't appear in this case, I see the last line in the article as a Schrodinger's Cat kinda thing. That is, it's just as likely that the "reporter" fabricated the part about the guns being confiscated as it is that they actually were confisticated. (Either way, though, they're gone --- poof!, as if by magic.)
cynic |
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Posted: 1/10/2003 8:23:09 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted: Funny how they always "find" a small amount of some drug... There Isn't anything [u][i]"FUNNY"[/i][/u] about it. Stupid people do stupid shit and dopers are stupid people. [url=http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=164032&w=activePop]For example[/url] |
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Posted: 1/10/2003 8:28:41 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted: Do you know how easy it is to plant a little "evidence" in a car full of ammo? I'd bet money that this guy's never even seen heroin. Yeah right all evidence is planted and the prisons are full on only innocent people.[rolleyes] |
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Posted: 1/10/2003 9:44:47 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted: Quoted: Do you know how easy it is to plant a little "evidence" in a car full of ammo? I'd bet money that this guy's never even seen heroin. Yeah right all evidence is planted and the prisons are full on only innocent people.[rolleyes] Read the papers Saturday, about our fine outgoing Governor Mr. George Ryan. He let four prisoners out on Friday.[:)] |
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Posted: 1/11/2003 3:00:48 AM EDT
[#34]
Handguns are pretty much banned in Chicago. In some states people under felony charges can not legally possess firearms. Heroin possession is a felony in any state.
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Posted: 1/11/2003 3:19:24 AM EDT
[#35]
Quoted: Funny how they always "find" a small amount of some drug... I'll second that thought. |
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