User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 6/17/2014 1:37:47 PM EDT
[#1]
We should pull out of that sh$thole like we need to get out of Afghanistan...
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2014 1:38:02 PM EDT
[#2]
It would have been better if we had advised the Maliki government to contract the French Foreign Legion to undertake the security of Iraq.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2014 1:39:43 PM EDT
[#3]
Colonization and breeding out the extremist ME culture is the only way that place will ever change. That or genocide. Not that I'm advocating either.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2014 1:40:39 PM EDT
[#4]
It was a lost cause from day 1.
The society over there is the strong devour the not as strong. When there is no regard for the sanctity of human life, it is destined to be hell on earth. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2014 1:42:33 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It would have been better if we had advised the Maliki government to contract the French Foreign Legion to undertake the security of Iraq. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2014 1:43:11 PM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
What could we have done to better prepare the Iraqi security forces for our withdrawal? Converted them to another religion... |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2014 1:45:22 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Converted them to another religion... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Or was it a lost cause from day one? Is this a personnel, training, and / or leadership issue? Are there professional, disciplined, and experienced units within the ranks? Converted them to another religion... That would only incite the more violence and further their cause. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2014 1:45:56 PM EDT
[#8]
Surge needed to be about 5 times larger and permanent and we needed to spend a few trillion more.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2014 1:47:00 PM EDT
[#9]
I recently heard it put a pretty good way
"We hard-wired ourselves into the hard drive. Without us, it (Iraq) doesn't work" Frightening, disturbing thought. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2014 1:47:55 PM EDT
[#10]
Gone in with a scorched earth mindset. Destroyed everything. Then occupy the fucker with a heavy hand.
It's what they know. What they've always known. What they will always know. Violence and force. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2014 1:47:57 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Surge needed to be about 5 times larger and permanent and we needed to spend a few trillion more. LOL, wut?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2014 1:55:08 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Gone in with a scorched earth mindset. Destroyed everything. Then occupy the fucker with a heavy hand. It's what they know. What they've always known. What they will always know. Violence and force. Pretty much what Saddam did. Rebel? He leveled their town and either executed all the males of fighting age or just gassed the whole town. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2014 1:55:54 PM EDT
[#13]
When they asked us to leave and refused to sign an acceptable SOFA we should have told them to STFU. We should have done whatever the fuck we wanted to do.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2014 1:57:52 PM EDT
[#14]
There is/was no solution to fundamentally transforming a nation's culture, political habits and social norms in 10 years. The *only* solution that is achievable in that time frame is genocide.
As far as I can tell, we spent a ton of money and thousands of lives to put off the civil war for a decade, and our only 'accomplishment' was to give the Shia a better chance to prevail in the coming fight. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2014 1:58:55 PM EDT
[#15]
It was bound to happen when US forces left. Nature abhors a vacuum.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2014 2:04:51 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pretty much what Saddam did. Rebel? He leveled their town and either executed all the males of fighting age or just gassed the whole town. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Gone in with a scorched earth mindset. Destroyed everything. Then occupy the fucker with a heavy hand. It's what they know. What they've always known. What they will always know. Violence and force. Pretty much what Saddam did. Rebel? He leveled their town and either executed all the males of fighting age or just gassed the whole town. How you see that. How I see that. How a good number of people on Arfcom see that. But Dear Leader doesn't, is bewildering to me. While the Middle East wasn't Utopia before the Arab Spring bullshit, it wasn't near the hot bed it is now. The devil you know and all that shit... |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2014 2:11:26 PM EDT
[#17]
The people of Iraq aren’t like us in the national pride department. They live tribal feudalism. It’s all about me and my small group. So when hadji X is securing a facility 300 miles away, and extreme militants say, run away or you die, they run. The ones that don’t, (most of the Iraqi army is Shia) or the Sunni that they deem a threat, get dealt with unpleasantly. It’s hard for Joe American to understand not having a sense of national pride. That’s why democracy won’t work and it takes a dictator to keep the country stable.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2014 2:16:56 PM EDT
[#18]
is it similar to ARVN? seems a bit like it from my limited reading
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2014 2:19:38 PM EDT
[#19]
The Iraqi security forces need to be more afraid of who is behind them vs. who is in front of them.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2014 2:20:41 PM EDT
[#20]
Better E&E skills for one thing..........
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2014 2:23:46 PM EDT
[#21]
Recruit Ghurkas and Sikhs as police.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2014 2:24:14 PM EDT
[#22]
can you imagine what it must feel like to be so broken as a man that you would drop your weapons, surrender and march to your death? I can't
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2014 2:24:15 PM EDT
[#23]
They needed to have confidence in themselves and especially their leadership, they had neither.
They had the training, they had the equipment, but in the end the last two wars they fought they got their asses handed to them in a terrible way, and when it came time to fight again, the leadership failed them, and they collapsed. They had no confidence in their own leaders or their own abilities, so instead of routing the enemy (which they were likely capable of) they folded before the first shot was fired and ran away. Now that they are backed into a corner and are likely starting to understand that they may die fighting, but WILL have their head cut off if they surrender they will stand up, but I doubt it. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2014 2:24:43 PM EDT
[#24]
We should've taken away all of their high speed toys, first.
No Stingers, M1A1M's, or F16's to start. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2014 2:27:12 PM EDT
[#25]
Outsourced their military to the Qods force.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2014 2:28:05 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
can you imagine what it must feel like to be so broken as a man that you would drop your weapons, surrender and march to your death? I can't surrendering to any Muslim even you're the same sect is insanity. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2014 2:29:33 PM EDT
[#27]
Nothing. The problems there are beyond our ability to solve in anything shorter than 2 or 3 generations and with a lot of heavy handedness.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2014 2:30:12 PM EDT
[#28]
Sent them to the Wizard of Oz to get some fucking courage.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2014 2:35:47 PM EDT
[#29]
Nothing..
Every middle eastern person (Save for one) I have met are lazy cowards. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2014 2:42:41 PM EDT
[#30]
I thought the original idea was to lease space for a large base there, and then provide training/guidance to their officer corps.
Instead, everything was pulled out, and the Iraqi Army leadership panicked when ISIS started making moves. They needed some advisors to tell them, "okay, don't panic, take a deep breath and perhaps do X and Y". |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2014 2:45:39 PM EDT
[#31]
The culture is thousands of years old. And Islam has a firm hold on every facet of their lives (for the most part). The US bureaucracy was competing against a long established culture with it's own mores and folkways. And Imams. Not much.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2014 3:46:48 PM EDT
[#32]
Nuke the entire country. Turn it into a Glass sheet of Radioactive desolation.
Walk Away. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2014 3:48:00 PM EDT
[#33]
For all the people that think we should have pulled out immediately what do you think would have happened in Germany and Japan if we had not stayed there post WW2 to present day?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2014 3:57:36 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For all the people that think we should have pulled out immediately what do you think would have happened in Germany and Japan if we had not stayed there post WW2 to present day? |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2014 3:58:50 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For all the people that think we should have pulled out immediately what do you think would have happened in Germany and Japan if we had not stayed there post WW2 to present day? Japan and Germany would have turned to Islam and would have started another world war with muslim zombies.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2014 4:00:01 PM EDT
[#36]
Split it into six countries. Tell each one that you've given nukes to the other 5.
Oh, and castrate all males over the age of 15. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2014 4:00:29 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Did we see an insurgency post defeat in Europe and Japan on anywhere near the scale that we did in Iraq? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: For all the people that think we should have pulled out immediately what do you think would have happened in Germany and Japan if we had not stayed there post WW2 to present day? |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2014 4:04:08 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I thought the original idea was to lease space for a large base there, and then provide training/guidance to their officer corps. Instead, everything was pulled out, and the Iraqi Army leadership panicked when ISIS started making moves. They needed some advisors to tell them, "okay, don't panic, take a deep breath and perhaps do X and Y". That would help but you missed the bigger problem, all of the top leaders in the IA were appointed because they were buddies with Maliki. They were also incompetent. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2014 4:06:10 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That would help but you missed the bigger problem, all of the top leaders in the IA were appointed because they were buddies with Maliki. They were also incompetent. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I thought the original idea was to lease space for a large base there, and then provide training/guidance to their officer corps. Instead, everything was pulled out, and the Iraqi Army leadership panicked when ISIS started making moves. They needed some advisors to tell them, "okay, don't panic, take a deep breath and perhaps do X and Y". That would help but you missed the bigger problem, all of the top leaders in the IA were appointed because they were buddies with Maliki. They were also incompetent. |
|
|
|
Posted: 6/17/2014 4:25:36 PM EDT
[#40]
I spent two (2) years of my life training Iraqi Security Forces, If you put a suit on a pig it is just a dressed up pig. Hell they would show up in the morning at 0900 and break for lunch at Noon and come back a 1530 in time to leave. I had one group that showed up when they wanted because the were ALL related to the Local Elders. We were not allowed to fail them for any reason. The whole program was set up for failure from the get go. The only units that were mildly successful were the Special Operation units trained by SF and some of the Police SWAT teams.
The entire program was a numbers game which Required passing grades to meet. Fuck Iraq and FBHO P.S. I forgot to answer your original question. What could we have done to better prepare Iraqi Security Forces for our withdrawal? Either of occupied the shithole of a country for ever or Nuked them from orbit and put in a very large skate park. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
