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Posted: 4/8/2014 7:17:26 AM EDT
[#1]
I was already fucked
 the what? Fabryka Bronie Radom what what what?
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Posted: 4/8/2014 7:18:07 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
It's official, we're fucked. http://www.atf.gov/press/releases/2014/04/040714-special-advisory-test-examination-and-classification-7n6-545x39-ammunition.html Test, Examination and Classification of 7N6 5.45x39 Ammunition On March 5, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) received a request from the U.S. Customs and Border Protection agency (CBP) to conduct a test, examination and classification of Russian-made 7N6 5.45x39 ammunition for purposes of determining whether it is considered “armor piercing ammunition” as defined by the Gun Control Act (GCA), as amended. Since 1986, the GCA has prohibited the importation of armor piercing ammunition unless it is destined for government use or testing. The imported ammunition about which CBP was inquiring was not destined for either excepted purpose. The Gun Control Act of 1968 (GCA), as amended, defines the term “armor piercing ammunition” as: “(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or (ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.” (emphasis added) When ATF tested the 7N6 samples provided by CBP, they were found to contain a steel core. ATF’s analysis also concluded that the ammunition could be used in a commercially available handgun, the Fabryka Bronie Radom, Model Onyks 89S, 5.45x39 caliber semi-automatic pistol, which was approved for importation into the United States in November 2011. Accordingly, the ammunition is “armor piercing” under the section 921(a)(17)(B)(i) and is therefore not importable. ATF’s determination applies only to the Russian-made 7N6 ammunition analyzed, not to all 5.45x39 ammunition. Ammunition of that caliber using projectiles without a steel core would have to be independently examined to determine their importability. The Bronies did it.... 
Fatf Fbho |
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Posted: 4/8/2014 7:19:24 AM EDT
[#3]
FBATFE
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Posted: 4/8/2014 7:19:28 AM EDT
[#4]
Fucking Bronie factory.
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Posted: 4/8/2014 7:19:40 AM EDT
[#5]
We're in a bit of an odd situation - there are FFL's that still have this in stock for sale (Dan's Ammo and Classic Arms).... but FFL's cannot sell AP to civilians.
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Posted: 4/8/2014 7:19:57 AM EDT
[#6]
I would guess 7.62x54R is next. All it takes is one asshole to build a pistol for sale.
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Posted: 4/8/2014 7:20:02 AM EDT
[#7]
Ok why am I sitting here yelling "But it's .21 caliber!!!!"
It's not larger that .22 caliber |
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Posted: 4/8/2014 7:20:42 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ok why am I sitting here yelling "But it's .21 caliber!!!!" It's not larger that .22 caliber OR |
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Posted: 4/8/2014 7:20:57 AM EDT
[#9]
They dont really care...............facts mean nothing to the ATF
I wonder what the dealers who have it will do with it? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ok why am I sitting here yelling "But it's .21 caliber!!!!" It's not larger that .22 caliber |
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Posted: 4/8/2014 7:21:35 AM EDT
[#10]
I have 4 cans sitting in my ammo fort...first $2000 american money takes all of it! I dont want to have this evil ammo in my possession any more!
the panic has started, right?  |
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Posted: 4/8/2014 7:23:16 AM EDT
[#11]
J
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They dont really care...............facts mean nothing to the ATF I wonder what the dealers who have it will do with it? Quote HistoryQuoted:
They dont really care...............facts mean nothing to the ATF I wonder what the dealers who have it will do with it? Quoted:
Ok why am I sitting here yelling "But it's .21 caliber!!!!" It's not larger that .22 caliber Doesnt it measure .221 from land to land? Projectile diameter. |
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Posted: 4/8/2014 7:23:18 AM EDT
[#12]
So they want us to believe that the lead sleeve isn't part of the core? Shocking. 
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Posted: 4/8/2014 7:24:10 AM EDT
[#13]
It's beyond insanity that a bureau can make calls such as this.
Fuck you, ATF! |
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Posted: 4/8/2014 7:24:34 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OR Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Ok why am I sitting here yelling "But it's .21 caliber!!!!" It's not larger that .22 caliber OR And it is .22 caliber anyway. The bullets run around .221". |
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Posted: 4/8/2014 7:24:53 AM EDT
[#15]
Yeah, it is.............I imagine the price of regular 5.45 will jump way high now
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's beyond insanity that a bureau can make calls such as this. Fuck you, ATF! |
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Posted: 4/8/2014 7:25:19 AM EDT
[#16]
So did Bloomberg get the Bronies to make this gun just to get this ammo banned?
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Posted: 4/8/2014 7:26:25 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: OR Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Ok why am I sitting here yelling "But it's .21 caliber!!!!" It's not larger that .22 caliber OR Yep. Ands and Ors are important when reading statutes. |
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Posted: 4/8/2014 7:26:49 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's beyond insanity that a bureau can make calls such as this. Fuck you, ATF! CONGRESS wrote the law. CONGRESS wrote the definition. Don't forget to blame CONGRESS. |
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Posted: 4/8/2014 7:27:20 AM EDT
[#19]
Soooo...
Does that mean PTR screwed 7.62x51 surplus imports, too? 
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Posted: 4/8/2014 7:27:43 AM EDT
[#20]
What the fuck is a Fabrica Bronie Onyks 89s?
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Posted: 4/8/2014 7:28:34 AM EDT
[#21]
wolf will just make lead core 5.45
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Posted: 4/8/2014 7:28:41 AM EDT
[#22]
So, which importer sought approval for the Bronie pistol? Fuck whoever it was.
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Posted: 4/8/2014 7:28:57 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep. Ands and Ors are important when reading statutes. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Ok why am I sitting here yelling "But it's .21 caliber!!!!" It's not larger that .22 caliber OR Yep. Ands and Ors are important when reading statutes. Especially important since they are claiming it violates section (i) and not (ii). |
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Posted: 4/8/2014 7:29:16 AM EDT
[#24]
"could be used in a commercially available handgun, the Fabryka Bronie Radom, Model Onyks 89S, 5.45x39 caliber semi-automatic pistol, which was approved for importation into the United States in November 2011."
IO Inc AKA Royal Tiger is the only importer that I know that imports shit from Radom. Those stupid fucking assholes, and they didn't even import any of the damn things. It does look awesome, however.
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Posted: 4/8/2014 7:30:39 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What the fuck is a Fabrica Bronie Onyks 89s?
Guessing whoever imports the hellpup tried to import this. |
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Posted: 4/8/2014 7:31:12 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Soooo... Does that mean PTR screwed 7.62x51 surplus imports, too? http://www.slickguns.com/sites/default/files/PTR915300Pr1.jpg Nope. Steel core 7.62x51 hasn't been imported for decades. |
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Posted: 4/8/2014 7:31:29 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"could be used in a commercially available handgun, the Fabryka Bronie Radom, Model Onyks 89S, 5.45x39 caliber semi-automatic pistol, which was approved for importation into the United States in November 2011." IO Inc AKA Royal Tiger is the only importer that I know that imports shit from Radom. Those stupid fucking assholes, and they didn't even import any of the damn things. This smells of "find me something I can ban" gun control requests from Zero. They are banning it based on a pistol that never even was imported? What the fuck? |
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Posted: 4/8/2014 7:31:42 AM EDT
[#28]
"Ammunition of that caliber using projectiles without a steel core would have to be independently examined to determine their importability."
So does all of the other non 7N6 5.45X39 has to be tested before approval for importation now? |
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Posted: 4/8/2014 7:32:08 AM EDT
[#29]
Fuck them assholes. Oh and fbho too.
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Posted: 4/8/2014 7:33:07 AM EDT
[#30]
What really makes this stupid is that any bottlenecked rifle ammo will zip right through a cop vest, even out of a pistol.
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Posted: 4/8/2014 7:33:30 AM EDT
[#31]
ya i see it.. the core is over 75% steel. the lead just centers it and adds a bit of a squish thats all. Also has a steel jacket..
not surprised.. |
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Posted: 4/8/2014 7:35:17 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b8/Onyks_REMOV.jpg Guessing whoever imports the hellpup tried to import this. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What the fuck is a Fabrica Bronie Onyks 89s? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b8/Onyks_REMOV.jpg Guessing whoever imports the hellpup tried to import this. Looks like an SBR to me. The only info I see says the ol' Bronie 89 never made it to production. So IO put in an application to import a pistol version? Did it ever actually exist? |
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Posted: 4/8/2014 7:36:08 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This smells of "find me something I can ban" gun control requests from Zero. They are banning it based on a pistol that never even was imported? What the fuck? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: "could be used in a commercially available handgun, the Fabryka Bronie Radom, Model Onyks 89S, 5.45x39 caliber semi-automatic pistol, which was approved for importation into the United States in November 2011." IO Inc AKA Royal Tiger is the only importer that I know that imports shit from Radom. Those stupid fucking assholes, and they didn't even import any of the damn things. This smells of "find me something I can ban" gun control requests from Zero. They are banning it based on a pistol that never even was imported? What the fuck? My thoughts exactly. "Oh, we can ban AK-47 ammo? Good work E-Dawg!"
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Posted: 4/8/2014 7:36:31 AM EDT
[#34]
How is M855 ok but 7N6 isn't??
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Posted: 4/8/2014 7:36:46 AM EDT
[#35]
might as well sig brace all your 5.45's now.
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Posted: 4/8/2014 7:37:27 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How is M855 ok but 7N6 isn't?? M855 (and M2 AP) is specifically exempt from the AP classification by law. |
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Posted: 4/8/2014 7:38:10 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What really makes this stupid is that any bottlenecked rifle ammo will zip right through a cop vest, even out of a pistol. Dont worry, they tried to ban that a few years ago. |
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Posted: 4/8/2014 7:38:17 AM EDT
[#38]
What a bunch of BS. Thankfully, I bought a couple extra spam cans at a decent price.
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Posted: 4/8/2014 7:38:29 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What really makes this stupid is that any bottlenecked rifle ammo will zip right through a cop vest, even out of a pistol. TT-33 |
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Posted: 4/8/2014 7:39:52 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How is M855 ok but 7N6 isn't?? its only got a little piece of steel in the tip. unlike the the round in question. 
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Posted: 4/8/2014 7:41:55 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "could be used in a commercially available handgun, the Fabryka Bronie Radom, Model Onyks 89S, 5.45x39 caliber semi-automatic pistol, which was approved for importation into the United States in November 2011." IO Inc AKA Royal Tiger is the only importer that I know that imports shit from Radom. Those stupid fucking assholes, and they didn't even import any of the damn things. It does look awesome, however. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b8/Onyks_REMOV.jpg |
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Posted: 4/8/2014 7:43:06 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
M855 (and M2 AP) is specifically exempt from the AP classification by law. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
How is M855 ok but 7N6 isn't?? M855 (and M2 AP) is specifically exempt from the AP classification by law. So the 7N6 just uses more steel? Well that's stupid... |
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Posted: 4/8/2014 7:43:48 AM EDT
[#43]
So the soviets designed and intended 7n6 for pistols??? I don't fucking think so.
( ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.” (emphasis added) |
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Posted: 4/8/2014 7:44:00 AM EDT
[#44]
Well fuck it
start flooding the shores with SBR ready Krinkovs... Might as well make them eat crow Ill even open a 5.45 factory in North Carolina.. anyone interested in that venture
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Posted: 4/8/2014 7:44:33 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So the 7N6 just uses more steel? Well that's stupid... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How is M855 ok but 7N6 isn't?? M855 (and M2 AP) is specifically exempt from the AP classification by law. So the 7N6 just uses more steel? Well that's stupid... You misunderstood me. M855 and M2 AP are legally EXEMPT from ever being classified as armor piercing by BATFE. The same law that came up with this bullshit made those two off limits. Yes, M2 AP (ARMOR PIERCING) is legally exempt from being classified as ARMOR PIERCING by BATFE. |
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Posted: 4/8/2014 7:44:47 AM EDT
[#46]
So what does this mean for prices of 5.45. They going to level out around 7.62x39?
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Posted: 4/8/2014 7:44:48 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So the 7N6 just uses more steel? Well that's stupid... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How is M855 ok but 7N6 isn't?? M855 (and M2 AP) is specifically exempt from the AP classification by law. So the 7N6 just uses more steel? Well that's stupid... no its smart.. steel is cheaper then lead.. 
now if they go powdered steel its all cool.. |
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Posted: 4/8/2014 7:45:24 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So what does this mean for prices of 5.45. They going to level out around 7.62x39? Ammo prices will rise, 5.45 firearms will decrease in price. |
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Posted: 4/8/2014 7:45:44 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: its only got a little piece of steel in the tip. unlike the the round in question. http://mcb-homis.com/blog/m855.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: How is M855 ok but 7N6 isn't?? its only got a little piece of steel in the tip. unlike the the round in question. http://mcb-homis.com/blog/m855.jpg |
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Posted: 4/8/2014 7:45:46 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
M855 (and M2 AP) is specifically exempt from the AP classification by law. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
How is M855 ok but 7N6 isn't?? M855 (and M2 AP) is specifically exempt from the AP classification by law. Yup, somebody prolly owns stock in lake city so they don't want to cut into their profits. |
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