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Posted: 4/16/2001 9:00:09 AM EDT
[#1]
What???? No ideas? How about guesses?
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Posted: 4/16/2001 9:02:38 AM EDT
[#2]
I've got NO idea. People have asked me how the site is funded, and I don't have a good answer.
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Posted: 4/16/2001 9:04:11 AM EDT
[#3]
Originally posted by Grin&Barrett: Now that has been said, I would like to point out that most likely this site costs over $1500 a month & brings in 0! [url]www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=15763&page=2[/url] i'm assuming, then, that you were guessing? |
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Posted: 4/16/2001 9:13:29 AM EDT
[#4]
Servers are not cheap, same with hosting a server at a ISP. I figure $1500 or so is a good ballpark.
c-rock [url]www.illinois-shooter.org |
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Posted: 4/16/2001 1:26:00 PM EDT
[#5]
Hey AR Lady, that was a [b]Rhetorical Question[/b]!
We have a very good idea of exactly what the monthly operating expenses are, the question was DO YOU..? This question is asked because of all of you armchair warriors out there that are always willing to "ante up" whenever there is a fundraising drive, but never seem to get around to it. Well, we have made it possible for YOU to make contributions via the LEGP rifle ordering page! Go to [url]www.castle-arms.com[/url], select the ORDERING page, drop down to the SERVER FUND, and then put your money where your mouths are. This board has been placed here for all of use to use and enjoy, but only a very few of us have ever contributed anything financially... |
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Posted: 4/16/2001 1:42:03 PM EDT
[#6]
As soon as I am in a financial situation to do so, I definately will. It's just a little hard to shell out $$$ for stuff when you are not sure when you are going to be re-employed. Same with the legp. I'm sure you have heard of living large...Well,
I'm living small at the moment. |
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Posted: 4/16/2001 1:58:09 PM EDT
[#7]
Thx dangerdan I know there will be many like you out there & that's OK. Hope things improve. For the others, I posted this, like antiUSSA (pay no attention to him ARlady) stated, as a rhetorical question. My guess in my post she found I believe is low. And as far as I know, I don't think this site brings in anything for the people that bring it to us! Maybe I should not say that. They might view phone calls & emails whining about what somebody said & demanding some action as receiving something.
I saw the LEGP as a way to add to the site. A way to contribute a further benefit to the members but not something the Admins needed to take on themselves. As we put it together we realized the site as a whole would improve if the LEGP attracted new members also. That is one reason I have stressed membership at the shows we have done. Since I'm not a internet techie, I may have missed some of the costs associated with running this kind of site. Any more you can think of. I need an education here. Does this site cost $1500 a month or is it more like $2500?? |
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Posted: 4/16/2001 2:25:52 PM EDT
[#8]
There are close to 8000 users registered on this site. If only half of us chipped in $5 per YEAR it would generate $1666 per month. Come on people, I think we can all afford $5!
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Posted: 4/16/2001 2:35:04 PM EDT
[#9]
Just a thought. Do the folks over on the industry forums contribute anything to this site for having their businesses here? This has got to be the #1 site dedicated to AR-15 type rifles and the #1 destination for information regarding said firearms. I don't know if they do, however if not, I would think they should at least buy an ad banner. It has to be worth something to have a pre-targeted audience.
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Posted: 4/16/2001 2:40:47 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted: Go to [url]www.castle-arms.com[/url], select the ORDERING page, drop down to the SERVER FUND, and then put your money where your mouths are. ... Hey anti, is there a way to do this without a credit card? Say an addy to send a MO to? |
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Posted: 4/16/2001 2:52:38 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted: Hey AR Lady, that was a Rhetorical Question ! We have a very good idea of exactly what the monthly operating expenses are, the question was DO YOU..? This question is asked because of all of you armchair warriors out there that are always willing to "ante up" whenever there is a fundraising drive, but never seem to get around to it. Well, we have made it possible for YOU to make contributions via the LEGP rifle ordering page! Go to www.castle-arms.com , select the ORDERING page, drop down to the SERVER FUND, and then put your money where your mouths are. This board has been placed here for all of use to use and enjoy, but only a very few of us have ever contributed anything financially... dude, chill out. i kinda figured it was a rhetorcial question. but i didn't know for sure. i wasn't attempting to start something. i don't agree with his method of bringing it up (sneaky, underhanded, and treating us like children), but i truly appreciate his motivation. look, if the owners want some help paying for this site, they have several options. many that i would gladly support. but having members berate one another because one has donated to the server fund and another hasn't certainly isn't the way to achieve that goal. antiUSSA, i don't know where this incessant hatred for me comes from. i certainly don't believe it's deserved. i have not maligned you in any way that i am aware. i have not wronged you either. at worst, i have disagreed with you. i must have really pissed you off, though, to be so high on your shit list, huh? [:)] |
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Posted: 4/16/2001 3:00:56 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted: Quoted: Go to [url]www.castle-arms.com[/url], select the ORDERING page, drop down to the SERVER FUND, and then put your money where your mouths are. ... Hey anti, is there a way to do this without a credit card? Say an addy to send a MO to? Yes, here is payment info - All payments must also be made out to "Castle Arms". Castle Arms, Inc. 401 South Front St. Quincy, IL 62301 Please mark any funds sent 'for AR15.com expenses & upgrades'. [i](By-the-way, some think that because of my screen name I have something to do with running this site - I DON'T!! I chose that screen name because my old s.name was already taken by the time I found out about the new upgraded site. It was meant for people to realize I was 'Kevin' from the 1st AR15.com UBB bulletin board which crashed. I just didn't think/realize how the '@AR15com1&2' sounds like that I'm more than just a member or something which I'm not. I did it strictly for reference because I often use the F/S boards.)[/i] |
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Posted: 4/16/2001 3:22:10 PM EDT
[#13]
I'm curious to find out too since I never see any banner ads on the site. Don't know the specifics about this site or how many servers they have, but you can colocate a server at www.sonic.net for $100/month with 10GB of traffic.
Message boards like this generate a lot of traffic and would easily go over the 10GB mark in a month. |
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Posted: 4/16/2001 3:30:59 PM EDT
[#14]
I just sent my ar15.com donation. GREAT IDEA!!
mike If you're a happy little citizen, clank your chains! |
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Posted: 4/16/2001 3:58:41 PM EDT
[#15]
There are banner ads at the bottom of the start page. I have no Idea what it costs to run this board. I have no idea what Cole, Brownell's etc.. pay for their ads. Therefore, we have no idea what the deficit is. What is the point in this line of questioning anyway? If it is to encourage some people into paying for this site to be better & faster trhat is one thing and admirable, however it sounds like someone is pissed over a poorly thought out LEGP deal. Anyone that has ever dealt with a group of people knows that you can rarely get a concensus, as such this project was vastly oversold. The first time out of the box should have been a standard plain vanilla A-2. You could then have upgraded over the next few years & editions. I have never comitted to this product as I really have no need for such a rifle, but my finances are fine & I may purchase one to dismantle for the parts content. There are many accesories that make it worthwile as well. Lastly as a point there are some cheap a$$ bastards out there & they all wanted a $550 rifle. Is this unreasonable, Sh!t yes it is. Was it do-able? Maybe. The config could have been less extravagant, and the price we were looking at shouldn't have been posted. As a buyer & a salesman in the past I know that if you mention a target price, thats what you will get. Flame on if you will, but I have only stated an observation.
Scott |
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Posted: 4/16/2001 4:13:41 PM EDT
[#16]
Thanks AntiUSSA. I was under the impression that you could add a contribution when purchasing the LEGP rifle. Since I am not buying one, I just never went and looked at the order. When I get home to a credit card, I will submit my funds for the board.
Thanks CHZ |
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Posted: 4/16/2001 4:57:54 PM EDT
[#17]
what's up here?
one of the mods wants to know what it costs to run this place, another mod says he knows...... but doesn't say. |
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Posted: 4/16/2001 5:03:20 PM EDT
[#18]
Hey Grin and Anti,
When you all come up to the pit for the May 27th meet, you can give part of the fees for playing with the class III toys to the board. Or how about just the fee for playing with the M16? I would be willing to use my own N/C, brass case, copper jacketed ammo and pay a fee to the board to play with your bad ass rifle!! [sex] I figure there should be at least 50 of us there this time, plus with the pit closed alot this summer, it will be a busy day there. [kill] Reason I did not get in on that deal, is beause of the white man needed mucho money from me today, and I got in on the FAL deal. Since I did not want to get in, I did not say anything. Ok, I will shut up now. c-rock [url]www.illinois-shooter.org |
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Posted: 4/16/2001 5:04:24 PM EDT
[#19]
How about some small charge to anyone who sells something on the equipment exchange? Even a buck or two. Don't know how you would track it and enforce it though. I guess it would have to be on the honor system.
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Posted: 4/16/2001 5:13:31 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: How about some small charge to anyone who sells something on the equipment exchange? Even a buck or two. Don't know how you would track it and enforce it though. I guess it would have to be on the honor system. Talking about causing user backlash, I don't want to read that thread!!!! |
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Posted: 4/16/2001 5:17:33 PM EDT
[#21]
Okay, Antiussa, went to castle arms and did it.
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Posted: 4/16/2001 6:03:41 PM EDT
[#22]
For the owners/operators of this site: Wouldn't it be fairly simple to charge an annual individual membership fee for access /use of the forums that would cover operating expenses? I would be willing to pay such a fee. The information that I have gained here has certainly enhanced my enjoyment of the "hobby" (for lack of a better descriptive term). I think most serious AR owners/fans would be willing to pay a reasonable membership fee.
Rw |
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Posted: 4/16/2001 6:08:38 PM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: There are banner ads at the bottom of the start page. I have no Idea what it costs to run this board. I have no idea what Cole, Brownell's etc.. pay for their ads. Therefore, we have no idea what the deficit is. What is the point in this line of questioning anyway? If it is to encourage some people into paying for this site to be better & faster trhat is one thing and admirable, [red]however it sounds like someone is pissed over a poorly thought out LEGP deal.[/red] Anyone that has ever dealt with a group of people knows that you can rarely get a concensus, as such this project was vastly oversold. The first time out of the box should have been a standard plain vanilla A-2. You could then have upgraded over the next few years & editions. I have never comitted to this product as I really have no need for such a rifle, but my finances are fine & I may purchase one to dismantle for the parts content. There are many accesories that make it worthwile as well. Lastly as a point there are some cheap a$$ bastards out there & they all wanted a $550 rifle. Is this unreasonable, Sh!t yes it is. Was it do-able? Maybe. The config could have been less extravagant, and the price we were looking at shouldn't have been posted. As a buyer & a salesman in the past I know that if you mention a target price, thats what you will get. Flame on if you will, but I have only stated an observation. Scott Gun-fan: Everybody tries to read some hidden agenda into a post. My only reason here was to get people to think about AR15.com & what it brings to all of us. MY POST HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE Ltd Edition at all. I mentioned it later because it is my effort to help the site improve and add a value to members. As far as I am concerned, don't bring up the LEGP again in this topic. I don't think any Mod knows the cost to run this site other than one who may also be an Admin. I know I don't & I know antiUSSA only has a vague idea. |
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Posted: 4/16/2001 6:58:03 PM EDT
[#24]
I have no idea how much it costs to run this site, but I can bet it is expensive. Where does this money come from? You got me, most likely from a few peoples pockets. In any case, when I ordered my LE I made sure to give $5 to ar15.com. It was the least I could do, since they have this awesome site, and they had the LEGP at such a sweet price!
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Posted: 4/17/2001 5:29:40 AM EDT
[#25]
Banner ads...ummm Those are on the bottom of the front page. My 19" monitor doesn't show them when I logon. Guess I'd have to scroll down there & look. As far as a income source they would have to pay per a set time period or might be like a lot of them, paid on the number of clicks upon. Either way I don't think they bring in a lot.
If I was trying to put together a site like this for my other hobby (caving) I might re-evaluate my plans. Need more info. |
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Posted: 4/17/2001 12:51:37 PM EDT
[#26]
Originally Posted By MIKE 762X39: If only half of us chipped in $5 per YEAR it would generate $1666 per month. Come on people, I think we can all afford $5! Do you think it's worth $5.00? If this was the only site of its kind then maybe. But there are many other free sites with the same type of content and even most of the same contributors. For someone that lives and breathes the AR this is a great site. But its pretty limited in content and VERY uptight. AK47.net has a more libertarian slant. No censorship. Frugals is a more educational site. Assualt Web is a more militant/patriotic site. AR15.com lost alot of members when they changed format and they will loose alot more if it becomes a pay site. |
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Posted: 4/17/2001 1:56:38 PM EDT
[#27]
I don't know how much it costs to run this site, but my site is cost free.
[url]http://communities.msn.com/TheMarylandAR15ShootersSite[/url] MSN keeps the money from the banner advertisements, but the site is free and easy to use (No HTML required). It makes it quick and easy to put up pages. There are limits: like downloading is not as easy, and they are now limiting downloadable files to 1MB in size. For a hobbyist (non revenue generating) its a great place for a site. Unlike Anglfire.com (which removed my AR-15 Manual Depot website, where I had a bunch of AR15 related manuals available for downloading) MSN doesn't seem to worry about content (as long as its legal and and conforms to their rules). Anglefire didn't seem to like the content on my page so they pulled the site (no warnings or anything - it took me 3 weeks to get a reason, and that turned out to be a lie). |
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Posted: 4/17/2001 2:21:14 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted: Anglefire didn't seem to like the content on my page so they pulled the site (no warnings or anything - it took me 3 weeks to get a reason, and that turned out to be a lie). Angelfire prefers to be a Spamhaus, they suck! |
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Posted: 4/17/2001 2:26:21 PM EDT
[#29]
LawDawg: But still, any idea what this site costs?
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Posted: 4/17/2001 5:07:03 PM EDT
[#30]
There is no way this site costs anywhere near $1500 a month. If someone is paying that they are getting screwed, big time. At the high end I would guess somewhere between $100 and $300 a month. That's still not cheap but it's nowhere near $1500.
By the way what happend to all the other information that used to be on this site? All we really have now is just a message board. Also what happend to the banner ads at the top of the screen? There used to be enough paid advertising to more than cover the cost of the server. |
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Posted: 4/17/2001 5:48:25 PM EDT
[#31]
It would not be suprising if this site costs over $500 a month to run. In addition to hosting costs, the servers do actually cost money as well.
Different hosting deals can be found, and much like AR parts, some are a good deal and some are not. Finding a quality ISP who is connected with Tier 1 providers with a good SLA is going to cost some serious money. Getting an ok ISP with Tier 2 connectivity is definantely a cost saver, at the potential of more problems due to other providers. After scoping out rackspace, I found a good deal for me and a couple of others. It's not cheap to me, about $150 a month. Hardware for me is going to run me about $750 as well. So for a year long period, that would be about $2550. That's a few LEGP rifles and some accessories. LawDawg also points out the great failure of many dot coms...folks on the internet don't want to pay for sh!t. Once a service starts charging, they lose members/customers whatever. How many successful web sites that charge money for content (outside of Porn) are there on the net? Until people get it through their heads that the internet is NOT free, as in free beer, it won't get better. |
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Posted: 4/17/2001 6:39:11 PM EDT
[#32]
G&B,
I contributed to the site But did not order a rifle will it still go through. After I sent info it said Castle arms was going to e-mail me to get FFL info??? I just donated money...Maybe it didn't recognize that I didn't get a rifle because it's set up that way? John[heavy] |
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Posted: 4/17/2001 6:40:25 PM EDT
[#33]
BTT
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Posted: 4/17/2001 6:47:17 PM EDT
[#34]
How many successful web sites that charge money for content (outside of Porn) are there on the net? Mine, [url]www.dvdtracker.com[/url]. We were free and had to switch to charging for our service because advertising simply dried up. While a *lot* of people were pissed, we took in enough money to keep us going for the next couple years at the minimum. FYI, I offered it once before and I'll offer it again. Any ar15.com member that wants a free DVD Tracker account can have one. Just drop me an e-mail. consumerreports.org has a yearly subscription, but that's a well-known brand and is an extension of the magazine. Don't think it was ever a free service. I've already donated to this site once. If they decide that a subscription is required, count me in again! |
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Posted: 4/17/2001 7:11:03 PM EDT
[#35]
I knew you'd post [:)].
One way to help pay for the site would be to have advertising on the non-paid folks' views, and none on the paid members views. I don't know if Ed would implement such a scheme or not, or if it would be practical. LawDawg, one thing about your last comment. If a site provides service that customers want, then they will use it. If this site does not provide customers with what they want, they are free to go elsewhere and find it. If folks found this place useful once they will probably find it useful again. And paid or not simply determines exactly how useful something is to its customers. |
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Posted: 4/17/2001 8:02:32 PM EDT
[#36]
Yeah, easy to do. Add another field to their database to track whether or not they are paid and just display an add if they aren't. Would look something like this.
!! If Not Session("userPaid") = True !! !! End If !! Real easy to do. If you guys want help, let me know. I know ASP & SQL. |
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Posted: 4/17/2001 10:35:45 PM EDT
[#37]
Hmm..I hear you've helped out some sites before...free of charge. Wonder if they noticed ever?
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Posted: 4/18/2001 6:09:27 AM EDT
[#38]
Hopefully they will notice & consider
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Posted: 4/18/2001 8:17:09 AM EDT
[#39]
Originally Posted By Grin&Barrett: LawDawg: But still, any idea what this site costs? No idea at all. I would *guess* that the site is free but the server keeps the revenue from the banner ads. Others have posted here that they have websites set up that way. sounds like the best way. If Ed is writing a check for $1,500.00 a month out of his bank account to keep this site going he has more money than brains. |
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Posted: 4/18/2001 8:19:50 AM EDT
[#40]
Sounds more like the cost is over $2000 per month but I'm still trying to get a handle on it.
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Posted: 4/18/2001 8:23:24 AM EDT
[#41]
Quoted: LawDawg also points out the great failure of many dot coms...folks on the internet don't want to pay for sh!t. Correct. I don't pay to listen to the radio. Radio stations make their money via Advertising. I dont pay to watch Network TV, they get their money via Advertising. I dont pay to veiw a webpage for the same reason. |
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Posted: 4/18/2001 8:25:51 AM EDT
[#42]
You are helping my point!
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Posted: 4/18/2001 9:11:04 AM EDT
[#43]
[/quote] Correct. I don't pay to listen to the radio. Radio stations make their money via Advertising. I dont pay to watch Network TV, they get their money via Advertising. I dont pay to veiw a webpage for the same reason.[/quote]
Right, but in radio or TV, you're pretty much forced to pay attention to the ads if you want the content. Most people ignore banner ads on web sites now so that method of advertising has very low rates of return vs traditional media. You're gonna see sites that will start charging (Photopoint anyone?) or you're going to see forced advertising on the web. Something like every ten clicks through a site an ad will be displayed and you have to wait for it to let you continue. |
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Posted: 4/18/2001 9:50:34 AM EDT
[#44]
Originally Posted By DVD Tracker: You're gonna see sites that will start charging (Photopoint anyone?) ??? My photopoint account is still free and i have not seen anything from them leading me to think that is going to change. I did dsee one thread, on one discussion forum, saying one person had been told he was going to have to start paying for his account. |
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Posted: 4/18/2001 10:25:55 AM EDT
[#45]
Originally Posted By Grin&Barrett: Sounds more like the cost is over $2000 per month but I'm still trying to get a handle on it. If they are paying $2000 a month to maintain this site, please inform them that I have some 50% 30 round AR-15 magazines for sale for the low price of only $500. That's how outrageously high that number is. Here's another offer: Since this site is such a drain on the bank account, I'll pay $1,000 to the owner to purchase the domain name and rights to the content and take this major money hole off the hands of the owner. I would move the site to a hosting company I work with and resolve the owner of any of the burden of keeping the site up. I also promise to keep the site up and running and even keep the existing moderators. |
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Posted: 4/18/2001 10:28:38 AM EDT
[#46]
Quoted: Originally Posted By DVD Tracker: You're gonna see sites that will start charging (Photopoint anyone?) ??? My photopoint account is still free and i have not seen anything from them leading me to think that is going to change. I did dsee one thread, on one discussion forum, saying one person had been told he was going to have to start paying for his account. photopoint sent an email to all members last week about their new fees... I didn't bother to read it but I think it goes into effect in May... |
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Posted: 4/18/2001 10:40:39 AM EDT
[#47]
Quoted: Originally Posted By Grin&Barrett: Sounds more like the cost is over $2000 per month but I'm still trying to get a handle on it. If they are paying $2000 a month to maintain this site, please inform them that I have some 50% 30 round AR-15 magazines for sale for the low price of only $500. That's how outrageously high that number is. Here's another offer: Since this site is such a drain on the bank account, I'll pay $1,000 to the owner to purchase the domain name and rights to the content and take this major money hole off the hands of the owner. I would move the site to a hosting company I work with and resolve the owner of any of the burden of keeping the site up. I also promise to keep the site up and running and even keep the existing moderators. I'll forward your offer to the Admins. From what I've been able to put together I think the costs are hihger than any of us think. |
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Posted: 4/18/2001 10:43:30 AM EDT
[#48]
LawDawg; I got two emails from Photopoint last week saying that my account will become a pay account. They said that it would cost $15/year(I forget the exact amount)for a certain number of photos. If I exceed the amount I will be charged more money. They said that everyone will have to pay soon. I said fu*k them, and I never tried to open my albums since. I wish that I had kept the emails to show you but I deleted them in anger.
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Posted: 4/18/2001 10:46:06 AM EDT
[#49]
Dear Member,
PhotoPoint has dedicated its business to protecting your pictures and allowing you to share them easily with your family and friends. We thank you for making PhotoPoint the #1 online photography company. To continue providing you the online photo experience you enjoy, we need to make several changes to our service in the coming weeks. Most significant is that, starting in mid-May, PhotoPoint.com will no longer be a free service, except for limited "trial" memberships. We believe you deserve to get real value for your dollars. For the past six months we have conducted surveys and talked directly with members to learn what people want from an online photo company. We have built a full-service program based on value, not just storage, designed by users like you. As a PhotoPoint Member, you will enjoy all of the current PhotoPoint features including secure photo albums and PicCheer photo postcards, plus: Save 5% off all print orders for the year Create and Save up to 5 SmashCast Movies - add music and graphics to your photos Store up to 1000 photos* Print at Home service - print photos at home like a pro Enjoy express customer service Receive our PhotoPointers™ Tutorial Series - valuable tips and tricks for improving your photography For a limited time, you can join for an entire year for a one-time charge of $19.95, and we'll include 25 free prints (the prints alone are a $12 value). As a valued member, you also have the option of a special lower priced basic membership, which does not include prints, for just $9.95 for the year. These introductory offers will end April 30, 2001. We want to thank you for your loyal support of PhotoPoint, and look forward to continuing to provide you with the best photo service on the Internet. If you have any questions, please visit our More Information page, or contact Customer Service. Sincerely, Ed Bernstein, CEO PhotoPoint.com |
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Posted: 4/18/2001 10:56:51 AM EDT
[#50]
I don't think that members should be required to pay a fee to keep the servers up etc..But I enjoy this site very much and have learned many legal and technical things here that were very helpfull to me as a shooter. Computers make life easy for us, especially thier ability to give you as much information as you can possibly retain on a particular subject matter. This info on AR15's would take years to aquire without a site like this and cost a fortune in trail and error. I choose to make a small server donation because I want to, and because I really appreciate this site and the hard work that people running it do to keep it going. Because of thier efforts we all have a place to get together and talk shop. Thanks for a great site.
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