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Posted: 1/27/2014 10:50:55 AM EDT
Those SATs and APs Were Hard—To Afford
The College Board should behave more like the nonprofit it claims to be. By Benjamin Tonelli Jan. 26, 2014 5:22 p.m. ETWith college-admission deadlines quickly approaching, my debt to the College Board keeps growing. Two SAT tests, five subject tests and six Advanced Placement (AP) tests later, I am ready to report my scores through the College Board website to the 10 colleges to which I am applying. On top of the total $102 I paid to take the SAT, $114 for the subject tests, and $534 for the AP tests, the College Board now demands $11.25 for each electronic submission of the test scores to the schools on my list. It seems odd that the College Board—a nonprofit whose CEO, David Coleman, was pulling in $750,000 as of 2012—cannot send a few numbers over the Internet for just a dollar or two, or maybe even free. Instead, I am shoveling out another $100-plus just for electronic submissions, another contribution to the swelling pockets of the College Board (annual revenue in 2011-2012: more than $750 million). With almost complete control over the business of pre-college standardized testing, the College Board squeezes every penny it can from high-school students—or their parents. The company charges at every turn while attempting to "connect students to college success," loading on additional fees for every missed deadline and "rush" delivery of electronically sent scores, scores that apparently otherwise take weeks to navigate the labyrinth that is the World Wide Web. The College Board should behave more like the nonprofit it claims to be. Lowering the cost of the SAT would encourage more students whose parents make modest incomes to retake the test and compete against students from higher income households who often take the test upward of four times, aiming for higher scores. (I took the test twice.) Allowing colleges to review prospective students' test scores online through the Common Application would be a common-sense way of easing the financial burden on students. Reducing the price of AP tests to encourage more high-school students to take the exams that grant college credit could mean lower tuition and less student debt. What better way to stay true to the College Board's belief in "investing in the future"? I hope that this piece "demonstrates outstanding critical thinking, using clearly appropriate examples, reasons and other evidence to support its position," as the scoring guide for the SAT essay test puts it. Somehow I doubt that the College Board will give it high marks. Mr. Tonelli is a senior at Garfield High School in Seattle. View Quote Garfield is along Seattle's MLK boulevard (or is it on 23rd?, same thing), so "inner city" to the extent Seattle has an inner city. |
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The entire article was emailed to me by wsj and I'm not a subscriber, so I presume it's public domain now. Also several wide open links and forwarding links now. |
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Register non-matriculating for two semesters, get good grades, and then convince the department to put you in the degree program.
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... you just missed that point completely. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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So, you're saying higher education is big money. Huh. ... you just missed that point completely. Its possible. My parents weren't rich and therefore couldn't afford to send me to SAT and ACT tutoring to refine my reading comprehension. Enjoy your white-male privilege. |
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lol Of all the places where we can improve our post secondary education system, from funding to curriculum, he gets hung up on the couple hundred bucks to take the placement tests.
He's going to shit a meat ax when the first loan payment is due. |
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So true. On average the college grad with earn about $1 million more over his lifetime than a high school drop out. He will generally lead a healthier life and his kids will do better in life, too. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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College is for suckers. So true. On average the college grad with earn about $1 million more over his lifetime than a high school drop out. He will generally lead a healthier life and his kids will do better in life, too. If you suck so bad at life that a high school diploma is beyond your grasp then sure. But there is a hug gap in motivation and skills between a HS dropout and someone without a traditional college diploma. |
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And that guy has six AP credits.
He's not going to have many insurmountable problems in his life, and good on him for that. Think of how much the "business of education" wrings out of those people less academically capable and astute than our author here. Think of how many kids, year after year, are sold a complete fabrication at enormous expense to themselves, their families, and their futures. To give another high-performing story, a friend of mine recently got her MD. She's making good money in a top hospital, working her tail off, living the good life... with a $2k/mo. student loan payment. I think it's fair to say we need doctors, and we need college education, but $2k/mo. is insane. And she will be paying that up until her kids, which she doesn't even have yet, are ready to go to college, if not longer. The cost of education is simply insane at every level. It cannot continue forever. |
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AP's a scam anyway.
My dad used to find the number of "I passed the AP Chem exam, that means I shouldn't have to take your first semester chem class" types who flunked the second semester class quite entertaining. They never believed him that what their HS teacher taught and what he taught in the first semester were not identical. Or that he didn't give a damn what their HS teacher or the College Board thought were important chemistry subjects. |
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Garfield is along Seattle's MLK boulevard (or is it on 23rd?, same thing), so "inner city" to the extent Seattle has an inner city. View Quote i bet i've fucked one of his teachers if he's in a bunch of AP classes. yes, it's ghetto. but i don't give a shit about his whining about test fees. if he doesn't have the money, it's his own fault for being poor. |
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So true. On average the college grad with earn about $1 million more over his lifetime than a high school drop out. He will generally lead a healthier life and his kids will do better in life, too. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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College is for suckers. So true. On average the college grad with earn about $1 million more over his lifetime than a high school drop out. He will generally lead a healthier life and his kids will do better in life, too. I'm just quoting one of the profs here on the site. |
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And that guy has six AP credits. He's not going to have many insurmountable problems in his life, and good on him for that. Think of how much the "business of education" wrings out of those people less academically capable and astute than our author here. Think of how many kids, year after year, are sold a complete fabrication at enormous expense to themselves, their families, and their futures. To give another high-performing story, a friend of mine recently got her MD. She's making good money in a top hospital, working her tail off, living the good life... with a $2k/mo. student loan payment. I think it's fair to say we need doctors, and we need college education, but $2k/mo. is insane. And she will be paying that up until her kids, which she doesn't even have yet, are ready to go to college, if not longer. The cost of education is simply insane at every level. It cannot continue forever. View Quote Bingo. A major correction is needed. Cut all subsidies, & the free market will take care of the cost spiral. Of course, given the cozy relationship between the education cabal & the federal government, I won't hold my breath waiting for it to happen. |
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Cost for a pre-med student to take the MCAT: $275
Cost to submit AMCAS (the generic online application used by most med schools):$160 Cost to submit AMCAS to additional schools (you get one freebie):$35 per school Cost for each school's secondary application, which they give you after they receive your AMCAS: $30-100 So, for a student applying to a dozen schools the total cost would be about $275 + 160 + 35(11) + 65(12) = $1600. And that's before any travel for interviews, etc. |
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"And that guy has six AP credits.
He's not going to have many insurmountable problems in his life, and good on him for that. " So please correct me if I have misconstrued your meaning. Because the has the magical AP credit his life will be rainbows and skittles? I cannot agree.. |
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Quoted: And that guy has six AP credits. He's not going to have many insurmountable problems in his life, and good on him for that. Think of how much the "business of education" wrings out of those people less academically capable and astute than our author here. Think of how many kids, year after year, are sold a complete fabrication at enormous expense to themselves, their families, and their futures. To give another high-performing story, a friend of mine recently got her MD. She's making good money in a top hospital, working her tail off, living the good life... with a $2k/mo. student loan payment. I think it's fair to say we need doctors, and we need college education, but $2k/mo. is insane. And she will be paying that up until her kids, which she doesn't even have yet, are ready to go to college, if not longer. The cost of education is simply insane at every level. It cannot continue forever. View Quote Absolutely. I think it started in the Clinton era, this big lie that "everyone should be able to go to college". Well newsflash: A HUGE chunk of the adult population and recent high school graduate are doomed to fail if they enroll in college. NOT EVERYONE NEEDS COLLEGE! And certainly most are not prepared socially or academically for college. But it'll take them a couple years of college loans to figure out that they shouldn't be in college and so they'll leave with two or three wasted years, no diploma, no marketable skills and a large student loan debt. And THAT'S how you grow FSA-Obamavoters my friend! |
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"And that guy has six AP credits. He's not going to have many insurmountable problems in his life, and good on him for that. " So please correct me if I have misconstrued your meaning. Because the has the magical AP credit his life will be rainbows and skittles? I cannot agree.. View Quote You didn't know? If you took AP classes in high school you are guaranteed to be financially successful. |
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I designed and implemented their call center back in 2005 or 2006. I'm not a college graduate.
Thanks for spending the money, though! Guys like me depend on it.
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... you just missed that point completely. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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So, you're saying higher education is big money. Huh. ... you just missed that point completely. this is what happens in commerical activity where little or no competition takes place, while registering as a non/not for profit entity. |
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i bet i've fucked one of his teachers if he's in a bunch of AP classes. yes, it's ghetto. but i don't give a shit about his whining about test fees. if he doesn't have the money, it's his own fault for being poor. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Garfield is along Seattle's MLK boulevard (or is it on 23rd?, same thing), so "inner city" to the extent Seattle has an inner city. i bet i've fucked one of his teachers if he's in a bunch of AP classes. yes, it's ghetto. but i don't give a shit about his whining about test fees. if he doesn't have the money, it's his own fault for being poor. tell me more about his possible teacher... |
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Cost for a pre-med student to take the MCAT: $275 Cost to submit AMCAS (the generic online application used by most med schools):$160 Cost to submit AMCAS to additional schools (you get one freebie):$35 per school Cost for each school's secondary application, which they give you after they receive your AMCAS: $30-100 So, for a student applying to a dozen schools the total cost would be about $275 + 160 + 35(11) + 65(12) = $1600. And that's before any travel for interviews, etc. View Quote add the need for an MCAT course to improve your test scores and the like.. |
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Its possible. My parents weren't rich and therefore couldn't afford to send me to SAT and ACT tutoring to refine my reading comprehension. Enjoy your white-male privilege. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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So, you're saying higher education is big money. Huh. ... you just missed that point completely. Its possible. My parents weren't rich and therefore couldn't afford to send me to SAT and ACT tutoring to refine my reading comprehension. Enjoy your white-male privilege. Hoping this is sarcasm. If not, boo fucking hoo. |
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Cost of college is stupidly high.
Not only that, often times the ROI on college degree's doesn't make sense. And an even higher percentage of the time your college degree has nothing to do with your job. I have two degrees: History - Specialty in Modern North American Diplomatic history and International Studies - Intelligence & Security Counter-Terrorism. I am now the chief buyer and logistics manager for an Oil company (Finished products - not drilling). Trade skills are vastly over looked. High school + Tech school, or High School + 2 year degree in Diesel mechanics, welding, or machining will net you a 70-100k a year job with in 5 years of graduation. Assuming your not a fuck up. High school + CDL will net you a 50k a year job post-graduation. Potentially a 100k a year job with experience. |
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So true. On average the college grad with earn about $1 million more over his lifetime than a high school drop out. He will generally lead a healthier life and his kids will do better in life, too. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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College is for suckers. So true. On average the college grad with earn about $1 million more over his lifetime than a high school drop out. He will generally lead a healthier life and his kids will do better in life, too. A lot of people should be seeking technical education instead, to be fair. |
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And that guy has six AP credits. He's not going to have many insurmountable problems in his life, and good on him for that. Think of how much the "business of education" wrings out of those people less academically capable and astute than our author here. Think of how many kids, year after year, are sold a complete fabrication at enormous expense to themselves, their families, and their futures. To give another high-performing story, a friend of mine recently got her MD. She's making good money in a top hospital, working her tail off, living the good life... with a $2k/mo. student loan payment. I think it's fair to say we need doctors, and we need college education, but $2k/mo. is insane. And she will be paying that up until her kids, which she doesn't even have yet, are ready to go to college, if not longer. The cost of education is simply insane at every level. It cannot continue forever. View Quote This is a great point. Kids need to know that if they're borrowing the money to go to school, they had better get a degree that will turn a profit. I know a young MD who just finished her residency. At 29 she has a base salary of $175k with a cap of around $300K if she hits her incentives. She also has $2500 monthly loan payments. I bet she can make due on $12,000 per month. On the other hand, I know guys with worthless masters degrees making coffee or tending bar. Life is about choices, it helps to make good ones. |
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Hoping this is sarcasm. If not, boo fucking hoo. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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So, you're saying higher education is big money. Huh. ... you just missed that point completely. Its possible. My parents weren't rich and therefore couldn't afford to send me to SAT and ACT tutoring to refine my reading comprehension. Enjoy your white-male privilege. Hoping this is sarcasm. If not, boo fucking hoo. Your post is dripping with privilege. And oil. From land your white forefathers stole from Native Americans. |
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add the need for an MCAT course to improve your test scores and the like.. View Quote I studied on my own using ~$200 worth of books, but I know at least two guys who took Kaplan's $2,000 MCAT prep class. They actually offer a $8,500 MCAT prep boot-camp in the summers. I don't know anyone who has taken it. |
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I don't believe I paid anything to take the SATs in 1966 (but maybe I'm not remembering correctly). I didn't take them seriously, at all.
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Cost of college is stupidly high. Not only that, often times the ROI on college degree's doesn't make sense. And an even higher percentage of the time your college degree has nothing to do with your job. I have two degrees: History - Specialty in Modern North American Diplomatic history and International Studies - Intelligence & Security Counter-Terrorism. I am now the chief buyer and logistics manager for an Oil company (Finished products - not drilling). Trade skills are vastly over looked. High school + Tech school, or High School + 2 year degree in Diesel mechanics, welding, or machining will net you a 70-100k a year job with in 5 years of graduation. Assuming your not a fuck up. High school + CDL will net you a 50k a year job post-graduation. Potentially a 100k a year job with experience. View Quote It is possible to choose degree programs with a very high ROI. Pretty much any of the engineering majors qualify. The reason engineering careers pay highly is supply and demand - the number of graduates tends to be less than the job openings available. Why? Because an engineering curriculum is hard. Many students start out in the School of engineering and bail because somewhere they got the impression that college was a ticket to get punched to a career, like high school is a ticket to get punched to go to college. When freshman year bears no resemblance to the Thirteenth Grade, they bail and go to easier majors. Which increases the supply of graduates and drives down their starting salaries. The Laws of Economics - you may not have studied them, but that doesn't mean they don't apply. |
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Those SATs and APs Were Hard—To Afford
The College Board should behave more like the nonprofit it claims to be. By Benjamin Tonelli Jan. 26, 2014 5:22 p.m. ET With college-admission deadlines quickly approaching, my debt to the College Board keeps growing. Two SAT tests, five subject tests and six Advanced Placement (AP) tests later, I am ready to report my scores through the College Board website to the 10 colleges to which I am applying. On top of the total $102 I paid to take the SAT, $114 for the subject tests, and $534 for the AP tests, the College Board now demands $11.25 for each electronic submission of the test scores to the schools on my list. It seems odd that the College Board—a nonprofit whose CEO, David Coleman, was pulling in $750,000 as of 2012—cannot send a few numbers over the Internet for just a dollar or two, or maybe even free. Instead, I am shoveling out another $100-plus just for electronic submissions, another contribution to the swelling pockets of the College Board (annual revenue in 2011-2012: more than $750 million). With almost complete control over the business of pre-college standardized testing, the College Board squeezes every penny it can from high-school students—or their parents. The company charges at every turn while attempting to "connect students to college success," loading on additional fees for every missed deadline and "rush" delivery of electronically sent scores, scores that apparently otherwise take weeks to navigate the labyrinth that is the World Wide Web. The College Board should behave more like the nonprofit it claims to be. Lowering the cost of the SAT would encourage more students whose parents make modest incomes to retake the test and compete against students from higher income households who often take the test upward of four times, aiming for higher scores. (I took the test twice.) Allowing colleges to review prospective students' test scores online through the Common Application would be a common-sense way of easing the financial burden on students. Reducing the price of AP tests to encourage more high-school students to take the exams that grant college credit could mean lower tuition and less student debt. What better way to stay true to the College Board's belief in "investing in the future"? View Quote lol After he's done writing his whiny "waaah, stuff I want should be cheaper or free" crybaby diatribe, maybe he could go and join a OWS protest and cry about the 1% He makes no actual logical argument for WHY records transfers or testing fees should be cheaper, other than some trite and juvenile point about how the CEO make a lot of money. That's as retarded as saying that a Corvette should cost less at the dealership because GM executives get paid millions of dollars ... and I really want a Corvette but don't want to pay the price, so it should be cheaper. Wow - the level of naivete and childishness it take to make an argument like that is pretty depressing, and makes me seriously wonder about all of his AP tests. And why is he whining anyway? He obviously COULD afford it, given all the fancy AP tests he took (AND the fact that he re-took the SAT). So he's not even complaining about the cost actually being prohibitive, in that it prevented him from doing anything ... he's just being a whiny child. If he was some kid who was UNABLE to afford some AP tests, because his family is super poor, and it has actually harmed his access to college, then I might have a little sympathy. Sad. I hope that this piece "demonstrates outstanding critical thinking, using clearly appropriate examples, reasons and other evidence to support its position," as the scoring guide for the SAT essay test puts it. Somehow I doubt that the College Board will give it high marks. View Quote Quite the opposite. |
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Your post is dripping with privilege. And oil. From land your white forefathers stole from Native Americans. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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So, you're saying higher education is big money. Huh. ... you just missed that point completely. Its possible. My parents weren't rich and therefore couldn't afford to send me to SAT and ACT tutoring to refine my reading comprehension. Enjoy your white-male privilege. Hoping this is sarcasm. If not, boo fucking hoo. Your post is dripping with privilege. And oil. From land your white forefathers stole from Native Americans. Rofl. You are my hero. |
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Back in 1985, my HS's National Honor Society sold donuts and cookies around lunch time and used the money to pay for AP exams and SAT/ACT tests for any student with a 3.5 or higher GPA.
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Quoted:He makes no actual logical argument for WHY records transfers or testing fees should be cheaper, other than some trite and juvenile point about how the CEO make a lot of money. View Quote Actually, he does make a great point. Why shouldn't the record transfers be electronic and very cheap? His point that the CEO of this company earns $750,000 for essentially a monopoly service should be sufficient grounds to question why it exists. Do you think he has access, or would be allowed to get it, to company data to analyze? Why shouldn't the service just post scores to a central location that any interested college could simply download? There's no reason for the fee per application model. There's nothing lol about this. |
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Its possible. My parents weren't rich and therefore couldn't afford to send me to SAT and ACT tutoring to refine my reading comprehension. Enjoy your white-male privilege. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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So, you're saying higher education is big money. Huh. ... you just missed that point completely. Its possible. My parents weren't rich and therefore couldn't afford to send me to SAT and ACT tutoring to refine my reading comprehension. Enjoy your white-male privilege. This white male started working when he was 12 and paid most all my way because I had a job workiing 35-75 hours a week and I made sure the college was within driving distance of my work and made sure I was out by 1130 everyday so I could work. If I could do it damn near anyone could they just would have to want it. |
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Quoted: Actually, he does make a great point. Why shouldn't the record transfers be electronic and very cheap? His point that the CEO of this company earns $750,000 for essentially a monopoly service should be sufficient grounds to question why it exists. Do you think he has access, or would be allowed to get it, to company data to analyze? Why shouldn't the service just post scores to a central location that any interested college could simply download? There's no reason for the fee per application model. There's nothing lol about this. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted:He makes no actual logical argument for WHY records transfers or testing fees should be cheaper, other than some trite and juvenile point about how the CEO make a lot of money. Actually, he does make a great point. Why shouldn't the record transfers be electronic and very cheap? His point that the CEO of this company earns $750,000 for essentially a monopoly service should be sufficient grounds to question why it exists. Do you think he has access, or would be allowed to get it, to company data to analyze? Why shouldn't the service just post scores to a central location that any interested college could simply download? There's no reason for the fee per application model. There's nothing lol about this. I'll agree with this. There's nothing wrong in questioning a monopoly that performs a simple service, and seems to be profiting obscenely in a role that is supposed to be non-profit. In that way, the CEO's rather large paycheck is a reasonable question to ask...as is the complexity of what they do. Let the folks at the CB respond and justify their intake, and output....out there for public scrutiny. If it's warranted, then fine...show it. Kudos for the kid asking the questions. |
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Actually, he does make a great point. Why shouldn't the record transfers be electronic and very cheap? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:He makes no actual logical argument for WHY records transfers or testing fees should be cheaper, other than some trite and juvenile point about how the CEO make a lot of money. Actually, he does make a great point. Why shouldn't the record transfers be electronic and very cheap? lol - why don't you go tell that to your local bank. Why should an international electronic wire transfer cost more than a buck or two. It's just numbers and electricity, right? There are TONS of reasons for why those electronic transfers shouldn't be "very cheap" The fact that neither he nor you seem to be aware of that doesn't make it "a great point" One of the reasons is that there are going to be lots of different systems that need to be integrated, in order for them to be able to smoothly transmit the data to all kinds of different universities. It's not just someone sending a few emails to someone else, it's millions of records being sent to thousands of different system. The registration system used at Ohio State is not going to be the same as the one used by Princeton, nor by Liberty Unievrsity. There's presumably lots of IT and boring tech stuff going on in the background. Integrating those different systems and making them communicate with one another is not just happening by accident, and it's not free. A second point is the issue of confidentiality, and presumably they need to take particular care with making sure that records are not compromised. Whether that involves encryption, or other clever IT wizardry, I have no idea - but they obviously have to deal with issues of privacy and data security. Again, these things require resources and are not free. His point that the CEO of this company earns $750,000 for essentially a monopoly service should be sufficient grounds to question why it exists. No, actually it shouldn't CEO salary is driven by LOTS of different factors, and making a blanket statement like that doesn't actually convey any MEANING or ARGUMENT. It's just a sensationalist statement that amounts to little more than "waaah, that seems unfair." Monopolies can charge monopoly pricing (within the bounds of government regulation). Why in the world would it surprise you that the CEO of a monopoloy is paid well? Do you also believe that your local garbage collection bill should be lower, because the CEO of your local waste disposal company is paid well? Your statement about "to question why it exists" is, quite honestly, bizarre. It exists because there was a demand, and someone set up a system that made it easier for students to apply to multiple colleges without having to take multiple entrance tests, and this was an efficient solution because BOTH side of equation (both customers, essentially) - student and college - saved times and money by using such a system. That system grew into the SAT and the College Board, and that is why it exists - because it is superior to the current alternatives, and because there is demand for it. There is NOTHING in the world that prevents you from developing your own college admission test and trying to get colleges to adopt it, and get students to take it. If your solution is better than theirs, the market will reward you. Do you think he has access, or would be allowed to get it, to company data to analyze? Do you think he TRIED? Or do you think he just wrote an article whining about how things that he wants costs more than he'd like to pay, and how super-unfair it is that someone makes a lot of money. While non-profits do not have the reporting requirements of publicly traded corporations, you'd be surprised at how much financial information can often be found for them. Why shouldn't the service just post scores to a central location that any interested college could simply download? There's no reason for the fee per application model. There's nothing lol about this. It is 100% lol You have no idea WHY they've adopted the current model that they use, and what the underlying reason were for why they chose that particular model over alternatives - yet you are absolutely certain that they are somehow ripping you off, or charging much more than they "should" ... and apparently the ONLY logic you can provide for this certainty on your part is because the CEO gets paid a lot. That's LOL-worthy for sure. It's very likely that some kind of privacy or confidentiality issue (and concern about liability, schools accessing data not meant for them, etc.) is precisely why they don't just throw all of their records onto a central locations that thousands and thousands of people would have access to - but instead do point-point transfers between their system and the targeted schools. As an aside, the College Board does other things than just facilitate SAT test taking and sending scores to schools. While I am not an expert on their particular operations, I imagine that some of their business activities (like fees for testing), likely subsidize other aspects of their operations - possibly helping low-income students get access to testing, and things like that. Non-profits often do things like that. The irony of that would be hilarious, because the kid who wrote the article is basically whining about how much he had to spend for his multiple SAT tests, and lots of AP tests - and it might very well be that those "high" fees are precisely what help some low-income student elsewhere even be able to take the SAT at all. But, like I said, I don't know the specifics. |
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Bingo. A major correction is needed. Cut all subsidies, & the free market will take care of the cost spiral. Of course, given the cozy relationship between the education cabal & the federal government, I won't hold my breath waiting for it to happen. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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And that guy has six AP credits. He's not going to have many insurmountable problems in his life, and good on him for that. Think of how much the "business of education" wrings out of those people less academically capable and astute than our author here. Think of how many kids, year after year, are sold a complete fabrication at enormous expense to themselves, their families, and their futures. To give another high-performing story, a friend of mine recently got her MD. She's making good money in a top hospital, working her tail off, living the good life... with a $2k/mo. student loan payment. I think it's fair to say we need doctors, and we need college education, but $2k/mo. is insane. And she will be paying that up until her kids, which she doesn't even have yet, are ready to go to college, if not longer. The cost of education is simply insane at every level. It cannot continue forever. Bingo. A major correction is needed. Cut all subsidies, & the free market will take care of the cost spiral. Of course, given the cozy relationship between the education cabal & the federal government, I won't hold my breath waiting for it to happen. Agreed. |
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Those SATs and APs Were Hard—To Afford
The College Board should behave more like the nonprofit it claims to be. By Benjamin Tonelli Jan. 26, 2014 5:22 p.m. ETWith college-admission deadlines quickly approaching, my debt to the College Board keeps growing. Two SAT tests, five subject tests and six Advanced Placement (AP) tests later, I am ready to report my scores through the College Board website to the 10 colleges to which I am applying. On top of the total $102 I paid to take the SAT, $114 for the subject tests, and $534 for the AP tests, the College Board now demands $11.25 for each electronic submission of the test scores to the schools on my list. It seems odd that the College Board—a nonprofit whose CEO, David Coleman, was pulling in $750,000 as of 2012—cannot send a few numbers over the Internet for just a dollar or two, or maybe even free. Instead, I am shoveling out another $100-plus just for electronic submissions, another contribution to the swelling pockets of the College Board (annual revenue in 2011-2012: more than $750 million). With almost complete control over the business of pre-college standardized testing, the College Board squeezes every penny it can from high-school students—or their parents. The company charges at every turn while attempting to "connect students to college success," loading on additional fees for every missed deadline and "rush" delivery of electronically sent scores, scores that apparently otherwise take weeks to navigate the labyrinth that is the World Wide Web. The College Board should behave more like the nonprofit it claims to be. Lowering the cost of the SAT would encourage more students whose parents make modest incomes to retake the test and compete against students from higher income households who often take the test upward of four times, aiming for higher scores. (I took the test twice.) Allowing colleges to review prospective students' test scores online through the Common Application would be a common-sense way of easing the financial burden on students. Reducing the price of AP tests to encourage more high-school students to take the exams that grant college credit could mean lower tuition and less student debt. What better way to stay true to the College Board's belief in "investing in the future"? I hope that this piece "demonstrates outstanding critical thinking, using clearly appropriate examples, reasons and other evidence to support its position," as the scoring guide for the SAT essay test puts it. Somehow I doubt that the College Board will give it high marks. Mr. Tonelli is a senior at Garfield High School in Seattle. View Quote Garfield is along Seattle's MLK boulevard (or is it on 23rd?, same thing), so "inner city" to the extent Seattle has an inner city. View Quote Garfield is an interesting school. . . it is known for it's AP programs. . . and also known for making sure the kids involved don't mingle with the kids who are court ordered to be there. |
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More speculative than the Highschooler. Has a suspiciously defensive tone also, vested interest. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:<snip> More speculative than the Highschooler. Has a suspiciously defensive tone also, vested interest. There's that lack of critical thinking again. Watch out, maybe I make more money that you think I "should" ETA: I don't give two shits about the College Board, or SATs, or college admissions. I am just laughing at people whining about how something costs more than they'd like to pay, without having any underlying understanding of what is driving their costs. It's NO DIFFERENT from saying "waaaaah - why is iTunes charging me 99 cents for a song, when the could be charging me 5 cents. That's not fair, because Apple's CEO makes millions" What I DO give two shits about is critical thinking. Too bad there was none of it in that article, or in your arguments. |
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Cost for a pre-med student to take the MCAT: $275 Cost to submit AMCAS (the generic online application used by most med schools):$160 Cost to submit AMCAS to additional schools (you get one freebie):$35 per school Cost for each school's secondary application, which they give you after they receive your AMCAS: $30-100 So, for a student applying to a dozen schools the total cost would be about $275 + 160 + 35(11) + 65(12) = $1600. And that's before any travel for interviews, etc. View Quote newsflash, becoming a doctor will be expensive as balls. |
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Another problem is that he's applying to 10 colleges.
Why the hell would you do that? Pick your top 3 and apply to them. Be realistic and understand your limitations. Kharn |
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I'll agree with this. There's nothing wrong in questioning a monopoly that performs a simple service, and seems to be profiting obscenely in a role that is supposed to be non-profit. In that way, the CEO's rather large paycheck is a reasonable question to ask...as is the complexity of what they do. Let the folks at the CB respond and justify their intake, and output....out there for public scrutiny. If it's warranted, then fine...show it. Kudos for the kid asking the questions. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Quoted:He makes no actual logical argument for WHY records transfers or testing fees should be cheaper, other than some trite and juvenile point about how the CEO make a lot of money. Actually, he does make a great point. Why shouldn't the record transfers be electronic and very cheap? His point that the CEO of this company earns $750,000 for essentially a monopoly service should be sufficient grounds to question why it exists. Do you think he has access, or would be allowed to get it, to company data to analyze? Why shouldn't the service just post scores to a central location that any interested college could simply download? There's no reason for the fee per application model. There's nothing lol about this. I'll agree with this. There's nothing wrong in questioning a monopoly that performs a simple service, and seems to be profiting obscenely in a role that is supposed to be non-profit. In that way, the CEO's rather large paycheck is a reasonable question to ask...as is the complexity of what they do. Let the folks at the CB respond and justify their intake, and output....out there for public scrutiny. If it's warranted, then fine...show it. Kudos for the kid asking the questions. And if it isn't "warranted", what happens? Who gets to define what is warranted and what is unwarranted? Why should the College Board need to justify anything? And to whom should they justify it? |
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This is a great point. Kids need to know that if they're borrowing the money to go to school, they had better get a degree that will turn a profit. I know a young MD who just finished her residency. At 29 she has a base salary of $175k with a cap of around $300K if she hits her incentives. She also has $2500 monthly loan payments. I bet she can make due on $12,000 per month. On the other hand, I know guys with worthless masters degrees making coffee or tending bar. Life is about choices, it helps to make good ones. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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And that guy has six AP credits. He's not going to have many insurmountable problems in his life, and good on him for that. Think of how much the "business of education" wrings out of those people less academically capable and astute than our author here. Think of how many kids, year after year, are sold a complete fabrication at enormous expense to themselves, their families, and their futures. To give another high-performing story, a friend of mine recently got her MD. She's making good money in a top hospital, working her tail off, living the good life... with a $2k/mo. student loan payment. I think it's fair to say we need doctors, and we need college education, but $2k/mo. is insane. And she will be paying that up until her kids, which she doesn't even have yet, are ready to go to college, if not longer. The cost of education is simply insane at every level. It cannot continue forever. This is a great point. Kids need to know that if they're borrowing the money to go to school, they had better get a degree that will turn a profit. I know a young MD who just finished her residency. At 29 she has a base salary of $175k with a cap of around $300K if she hits her incentives. She also has $2500 monthly loan payments. I bet she can make due on $12,000 per month. On the other hand, I know guys with worthless masters degrees making coffee or tending bar. Life is about choices, it helps to make good ones. What you're not factoring in are taxes. 175k is more like 100k after taxes. She has around 30k per year in loans. So, the brings in 70k take home after taxes and loans. Not bad but not as great as 175k sounds. |
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