User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 1/2/2014 11:50:42 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did you collect it in a lump sum? If not, you might want to look around at what is happening in this country. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Didn't need the public's support, never had it, and still got my pension.  Did you collect it in a lump sum? If not, you might want to look around at what is happening in this country. I was smart and planned on the money running out from the get go when I was hired back in '93. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/2/2014 11:52:09 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't believe the timeline. That is a long time spent talking at the door. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
IMO, nothing about the timeline makes sense to me. Officers would have made their way to the backyard area before a knock on the door or as the door knockers approached. Not after a 10 minute conversation and then two minutes later. I doubt they spent 10 minutes at the door nor that the shooting took place a full two minutes after the door closed. It doesn't make sense. That's because you haven't addressed context yet....IMHO here's where it fits....After the initial contact at the door did not go as planned officer in the back thought he would recon a little further and see if the subject could be seen in the residence after it would appear that the LE contact had been broken off by the officer at the door withdrawing. You know, see if the subject of the warrant came popping out a closet/room like a jack-in-the-box. Instead of it being an "A-HA !!" type moment, it turned into an "OH SHIT !!" moment when he encounters the dog, and he panics and shoots the dog...Just my best guess based on the info provided VS. responses posted by LE in the thread. I base my statements on having served or attempted to serve hundereds of warrants with various departments and pretty much everyone was almost exactly the same. You on the other hand from what I can tell have never attempted to serve arrest warrants. Never had claimed I worked in warrant service. Only pointing out that I believe that the scenario I posted could fit the timeline and be plausible. I don't believe the timeline. That is a long time spent talking at the door. I thought the 10 min. may have been the officer trying to develop RS/PC to enter the residence and search further for the subject of the warrant, or to try to uncover a lead as to her current whereabouts. But you have more experience on the subject that I do. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/2/2014 11:52:18 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Police Fact Challenge #5 VERSUS http://www.wesh.com/news/central-florida/volusia-county/dog-shot-by-police-in-holly-hill-recovering/-/12983450/23684420/-/exvdikz/-/index.html Hmmmmm.... Who to believe, the homeowner with the physical evidence or the official police report? If they police would misstate how many rounds they fired, what else would they misstate? I don't know, I am so conflicted.....  Quote HistoryQuoted: Police Fact Challenge #5 When the dog lunged at the officer a second time, the officer was in fear of being attacked and fired his service weapon two times at the dog, police officials said. VERSUS "She has three bullet wounds and one nearly took her left eye out,” Stotler said. "I was sitting in there, watching TV, and all of a sudden we hear three gunshots,” Stotlar said. http://www.wesh.com/news/central-florida/volusia-county/dog-shot-by-police-in-holly-hill-recovering/-/12983450/23684420/-/exvdikz/-/index.html Hmmmmm.... Who to believe, the homeowner with the physical evidence or the official police report? If they police would misstate how many rounds they fired, what else would they misstate? I don't know, I am so conflicted..... 1 entrance wound. Bullet still in dog. 1 entrance with matching exit wound. Total 3 wounds. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/2/2014 11:53:34 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hmmmmm.... Who to believe, the homeowner with the physical evidence or the official police report? If they police would misstate how many rounds they fired, what else would they misstate? I don't know, I am so conflicted.....
The neck and shoulder wounds look like they line up. One round might have made 2 holes. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/2/2014 11:54:23 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So the owner claims the dog was a "teddy bear" and that's all the proof you need? You really can't be that gullible.....can you? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Whether the cop who shot the dog also wrote the warrant and was the one who got the wrong address is irrelevant. A cop who can't distinguish between a dog that is just overly friendly or maybe being watchful vs. one that is intent on attacking has no business being on the street. So the owner claims the dog was a "teddy bear" and that's all the proof you need? You really can't be that gullible.....can you? Cop says it was viscous You really can't be that gullible.....can you? I mean after all cops are actually paid to lie to people |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/2/2014 11:57:10 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryYes they can enter the back yard, and until the officers are satisfied that the person listed on the warrant is not currently at the residence they have the legal right to be on that property. If a dog or anyone threatens the officers have the right to defend themselves. Happy? I'm really curious about this. Can any lawyers confirm this? It appears the warrant was an arrest warrant, not a search warrant. To what extent can officers poke around someone's property when serving an arrest warrant? What if the fence had been an 8' tall privacy fence, locked and posted? Do they still have the legal right to be in the back yard? What if the back yard is a 10 acre woods? Thanks in advance. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/2/2014 11:57:23 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well then, I guess if I should ever fid myself in the situation where LE is looking for a suspect on my property I can tell them to GTFO or I'll have the lot of them charged with trespass. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
We will assume, for the sake of this thread, that the address on the warrant was not surrounded on three sides by properties controlled by the police department. That means entering someone else's property, without a warrant, so they can watch the back of the building. That would be trespassing. Well then, I guess if I should ever fid myself in the situation where LE is looking for a suspect on my property I can tell them to GTFO or I'll have the lot of them charged with trespass. Depends on the circumstances. Most cops aren't silly enough to go on fishing expeditions for something that a cheap attorney could so easily disprove. If you find a bunch of cops in your back yard, odds are excellent that they've got a legal justification to be there. They teach that stuff in cop school - statutes and case law so that when they make an arrest, it doesn't get thrown in the trash bin like all of the ones on television would be if the cases ever got to an attorney. Besides that, most of them really don't want to know what's in your back yard, anyway. They prefer their vision of the community uncorrupted by two foot high piles of dog shit, crusty porno mags in the tree house, and spray painted mannequins with bizarre, blond wigs and dressed in Spiderman underwear. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/2/2014 11:59:00 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I thought the 10 min. may have been the officer trying to develop RS/PC to enter the residence and search further for the subject of the warrant, or to try to uncover a lead as to her current whereabouts. But you have more experience on the subject that I do. Ten minutes seems about right when you take into account that the Officer probably had to get the individuals information and statement written down. It was probably one of these: Knock, knock, knock Individual answers door Officer: Good evening, sir we are looking for _____ Individual: I have no idea who that is... Officer: Well we have the address as her last known address. Can I ask you for some ID? Individual: It is in my other pants. (goes inside to get ID and comes out and hands it to the Officer Officer writes down the information and radios back for more information on individual Officer asks who lives there with him Individual explains he and his wife do Radio calls back with no warrants and no known associates etc Officer gives ID back to individual and asks any other questions I can see that taking about 10 minutes...One of my favorite lines in any movie is "Nothing takes 5 minutes!!" |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/2/2014 12:00:58 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm really curious about this. Can any lawyers confirm this? It appears the warrant was an arrest warrant, not a search warrant. To what extent can officers poke around someone's property when serving an arrest warrant? What if the fence had been an 8' tall privacy fence, locked and posted? Do they still have the legal right to be in the back yard? What if the back yard is a 10 acre woods? Thanks in advance. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes they can enter the back yard, and until the officers are satisfied that the person listed on the warrant is not currently at the residence they have the legal right to be on that property. If a dog or anyone threatens the officers have the right to defend themselves. Happy? I'm really curious about this. Can any lawyers confirm this? It appears the warrant was an arrest warrant, not a search warrant. To what extent can officers poke around someone's property when serving an arrest warrant? What if the fence had been an 8' tall privacy fence, locked and posted? Do they still have the legal right to be in the back yard? What if the back yard is a 10 acre woods? Thanks in advance. it's true and your 10 acres would not even require a warrant to go visit. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/2/2014 12:01:54 PM EDT
[#10]
An arrest warrant for a prostitute who was so dangerous and such a blight on the community that they didn't keep a close enough eye on her to know she wasn't living there anymore.
Inspector Clouseau strikes again. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/2/2014 12:02:05 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ten minutes seems about right when you take into account that the Officer probably had to get the individuals information and statement written down. It was probably one of these: Knock, knock, knock Individual answers door Officer: Good evening, sir we are looking for _____ Individual: I have no idea who that is... Officer: Well we have the address as her last known address. Can I ask you for some ID? Individual: It is in my other pants. (goes inside to get ID and comes out and hands it to the Officer Officer writes down the information and radios back for more information on individual Officer asks who lives there with him Individual explains he and his wife do Radio calls back with no warrants and no known associates etc Officer gives ID back to individual and asks any other questions I can see that taking about 10 minutes...One of my favorite lines in any movie is "Nothing takes 5 minutes!!" Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I thought the 10 min. may have been the officer trying to develop RS/PC to enter the residence and search further for the subject of the warrant, or to try to uncover a lead as to her current whereabouts. But you have more experience on the subject that I do. Ten minutes seems about right when you take into account that the Officer probably had to get the individuals information and statement written down. It was probably one of these: Knock, knock, knock Individual answers door Officer: Good evening, sir we are looking for _____ Individual: I have no idea who that is... Officer: Well we have the address as her last known address. Can I ask you for some ID? Individual: It is in my other pants. (goes inside to get ID and comes out and hands it to the Officer Officer writes down the information and radios back for more information on individual Officer asks who lives there with him Individual explains he and his wife do Radio calls back with no warrants and no known associates etc Officer gives ID back to individual and asks any other questions I can see that taking about 10 minutes...One of my favorite lines in any movie is "Nothing takes 5 minutes!!" That takes all of about 30 seconds. A traffic stop with writing a citation does not take 10 minutes. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/2/2014 12:03:32 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You put too much faith in delivery drivers Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Good point. I have wrongly assumed the police would be more accurate than a delivery driver. Silly me. You put too much faith in delivery drivers I agree with you but when was the last time a person or pet was shot because of a mistake made by a delivery driver. I used to be a driver helper for UPS during the holidays when I was in college never shot anyone or anything, I'm also sure that during the course of four holiday season's I have delivered more packages to total strangers homes than most cops will ever respond to over the course of their careers and I still managed to do it without shooting anyone or their pets. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/2/2014 12:05:37 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That takes all of about 30 seconds. A traffic stop with writing a citation does not take 10 minutes. You took the bait... They are all slow down there in Floriduh! Zing! 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/2/2014 12:07:34 PM EDT
[#14]
What made them think a hooker was going to be home? I thoght most hookers worked at night
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/2/2014 12:08:45 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What made them think a hooker was going to be home? I thoght most hookers worked at night Not all prostitutes are street walkers. Some work from home. Clients come to them. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/2/2014 12:09:35 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That takes all of about 30 seconds. A traffic stop with writing a citation does not take 10 minutes. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I thought the 10 min. may have been the officer trying to develop RS/PC to enter the residence and search further for the subject of the warrant, or to try to uncover a lead as to her current whereabouts. But you have more experience on the subject that I do. Ten minutes seems about right when you take into account that the Officer probably had to get the individuals information and statement written down. It was probably one of these: Knock, knock, knock Individual answers door Officer: Good evening, sir we are looking for _____ Individual: I have no idea who that is... Officer: Well we have the address as her last known address. Can I ask you for some ID? Individual: It is in my other pants. (goes inside to get ID and comes out and hands it to the Officer Officer writes down the information and radios back for more information on individual Officer asks who lives there with him Individual explains he and his wife do Radio calls back with no warrants and no known associates etc Officer gives ID back to individual and asks any other questions I can see that taking about 10 minutes...One of my favorite lines in any movie is "Nothing takes 5 minutes!!" That takes all of about 30 seconds. A traffic stop with writing a citation does not take 10 minutes.  |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/2/2014 12:10:42 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I agree with you but when was the last time a person or pet was shot because of a mistake made by a delivery driver. I used to be a driver helper for UPS during the holidays when I was in college never shot anyone or anything, I'm also sure that during the course of four holiday season's I have delivered more packages to total strangers homes than most cops will ever respond to over the course of their careers and I still managed to do it without shooting anyone or their pets. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Good point. I have wrongly assumed the police would be more accurate than a delivery driver. Silly me. You put too much faith in delivery drivers I agree with you but when was the last time a person or pet was shot because of a mistake made by a delivery driver. I used to be a driver helper for UPS during the holidays when I was in college never shot anyone or anything, I'm also sure that during the course of four holiday season's I have delivered more packages to total strangers homes than most cops will ever respond to over the course of their careers and I still managed to do it without shooting anyone or their pets. "I have not been attacked by a dog" =/= dogs dont attack people |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/2/2014 12:11:16 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, sir. 75 and a half inches at 272ish (depending on the day). Yes, I got obese after I got out of the Army (again, truth). But you brought up certain phrases (highlighted in blue) that some DAs would use against me that the average person sitting on a jury don't know or comprehend unless the judge, who might or might not have a bias, tells them what it means. I have been hosed by the big green weenie enough to know that the government is not necessarily a person's friend and that you should have incontrovertible facts to back up everything you say or do. Sad state indeed, sir. So what are your stances on medical insurance, taxes, and private property rights? For your run in 2016...
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Thanks for your response. If you are that big, it brings disparity of force into play, depending on the situation, METT-T, etc. As a cop, I have to say I'm sorry you feel that way. No verbal judo, either. I'm sorry the current legal climate causes you to adopt that approach. I wish a lot of things were different, and when I'm elected King I'll change them. 
Peengwin 2016 Yes, sir. 75 and a half inches at 272ish (depending on the day). Yes, I got obese after I got out of the Army (again, truth). But you brought up certain phrases (highlighted in blue) that some DAs would use against me that the average person sitting on a jury don't know or comprehend unless the judge, who might or might not have a bias, tells them what it means. I have been hosed by the big green weenie enough to know that the government is not necessarily a person's friend and that you should have incontrovertible facts to back up everything you say or do. Sad state indeed, sir. So what are your stances on medical insurance, taxes, and private property rights? For your run in 2016...
Medical insurance? Tort reform, buy a policy if you want insurance, haggle if you don't. All others can get in line at the clinic. Taxes? Holy shit, don't get me started. I don't know enough to argue, but the .gov is killing fuel, tobacco, and alcohol. Fuel kills everything else. Private property rights? As much as that's a whole 'nother thread, it's actually relevant to this one! |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/2/2014 12:12:20 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What if the back yard is a 10 acre woods? 10 acres? That wouldn't be curtilage, and wouldn't be covered. Open Fields. Hester v. US Katz v. US |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/2/2014 12:12:31 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
and gun owners can only draw their weapon AFTER they have been shot and/or wife raped. otherwise its just not justified. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
you are saying that the police should have to actually be attacked before defending themselves. 
If you aren't being attacked just what in the fuck are you defending yourself against?? So we should wait to be actually fired upon before returning fire then? Awesome logic and gun owners can only draw their weapon AFTER they have been shot and/or wife raped. otherwise its just not justified. That's comedic gold right there! Actually we do have to wait to drawn on or an actual threat before firing. I don't have qualified immunity to hide behind hero... |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/2/2014 12:13:57 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Medical insurance? Tort reform, buy a policy if you want insurance, haggle if you don't. All others can get in line at the clinic. Taxes? Holy shit, don't get me started. I don't know enough to argue, but the .gov is killing fuel, tobacco, and alcohol. Fuel kills everything else. Private property rights? As much as that's a whole 'nother thread, it's actually relevant to this one! I like where you are going with these...you have my vote...So there is two "e"s in Penguin? Just have to get this right for the write in.... |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/2/2014 12:14:50 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
it's true and your 10 acres would not even require a warrant to go visit. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Yes they can enter the back yard, and until the officers are satisfied that the person listed on the warrant is not currently at the residence they have the legal right to be on that property. If a dog or anyone threatens the officers have the right to defend themselves. Happy? I'm really curious about this. Can any lawyers confirm this? It appears the warrant was an arrest warrant, not a search warrant. To what extent can officers poke around someone's property when serving an arrest warrant? What if the fence had been an 8' tall privacy fence, locked and posted? Do they still have the legal right to be in the back yard? What if the back yard is a 10 acre woods? Thanks in advance. it's true and your 10 acres would not even require a warrant to go visit. I'll take undecided grey area for $1000 Alex. Outside the curtilage...no warrant needed. Within the curtilidge of the residence.....I think it is reasonable. Others may not. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/2/2014 12:15:22 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
qualified immunity That is the term I was looking for...damn, I'm rusty...Thanks! |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/2/2014 12:19:05 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's comedic gold right there! Actually we do have to wait to drawn on or an actual threat before firing. I don't have qualified immunity to hide behind hero... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
you are saying that the police should have to actually be attacked before defending themselves.
If you aren't being attacked just what in the fuck are you defending yourself against?? So we should wait to be actually fired upon before returning fire then? Awesome logic and gun owners can only draw their weapon AFTER they have been shot and/or wife raped. otherwise its just not justified. That's comedic gold right there! Actually we do have to wait to drawn on or an actual threat before firing. I don't have qualified immunity to hide behind hero... RIF "Hero" |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/2/2014 12:19:21 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
not really. deadly force rules are the same for everyone. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Because the ROE's are fucked up. You have to admit that. I will agree, but at the same time you have to agree that Police Officers have to much power to shoot first and then make a claim about how he was "clenching his butt cheeks wrong, so I had to 'choot 'em!" not really. deadly force rules are the same for everyone. Lol |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/2/2014 12:20:08 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's comedic gold right there! Actually we do have to wait to drawn on or an actual threat before firing. I don't have qualified immunity to hide behind hero... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
you are saying that the police should have to actually be attacked before defending themselves.
If you aren't being attacked just what in the fuck are you defending yourself against?? So we should wait to be actually fired upon before returning fire then? Awesome logic and gun owners can only draw their weapon AFTER they have been shot and/or wife raped. otherwise its just not justified. That's comedic gold right there! Actually we do have to wait to drawn on or an actual threat before firing. I don't have qualified immunity to hide behind hero...
RIF, the claim is that you cant shoot until you have already been wounded or, by default, you were not being threatened and would not be justified in defending yourself. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/2/2014 12:20:22 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm really curious about this. Can any lawyers confirm this? It appears the warrant was an arrest warrant, not a search warrant. To what extent can officers poke around someone's property when serving an arrest warrant? What if the fence had been an 8' tall privacy fence, locked and posted? Do they still have the legal right to be in the back yard? What if the back yard is a 10 acre woods? Thanks in advance. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes they can enter the back yard, and until the officers are satisfied that the person listed on the warrant is not currently at the residence they have the legal right to be on that property. If a dog or anyone threatens the officers have the right to defend themselves. Happy? I'm really curious about this. Can any lawyers confirm this? It appears the warrant was an arrest warrant, not a search warrant. To what extent can officers poke around someone's property when serving an arrest warrant? What if the fence had been an 8' tall privacy fence, locked and posted? Do they still have the legal right to be in the back yard? What if the back yard is a 10 acre woods? Thanks in advance. I'm only a dumb cop but if the officer reasonably believes that the person who's name is on the warrant is currently inside the residence listed on the warrant then the officers can enter and search the residence for that person. Another wards if the officers saw someone who fit the physical description they can enter the residence under the arrest warrant. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/2/2014 12:21:10 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lol Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Because the ROE's are fucked up. You have to admit that. I will agree, but at the same time you have to agree that Police Officers have to much power to shoot first and then make a claim about how he was "clenching his butt cheeks wrong, so I had to 'choot 'em!" not really. deadly force rules are the same for everyone. Lol care to elaberate? |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/2/2014 12:22:15 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I like where you are going with these...you have my vote...So there is two "e"s in Penguin? Just have to get this right for the write in.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Medical insurance? Tort reform, buy a policy if you want insurance, haggle if you don't. All others can get in line at the clinic. Taxes? Holy shit, don't get me started. I don't know enough to argue, but the .gov is killing fuel, tobacco, and alcohol. Fuel kills everything else. Private property rights? As much as that's a whole 'nother thread, it's actually relevant to this one! I like where you are going with these...you have my vote...So there is two "e"s in Penguin? Just have to get this right for the write in.... Old xBox gamertag...
and to distinguish myself from Aimless. Wouldn't want another lawyer in the WH 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/2/2014 12:23:33 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lol Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Because the ROE's are fucked up. You have to admit that. I will agree, but at the same time you have to agree that Police Officers have to much power to shoot first and then make a claim about how he was "clenching his butt cheeks wrong, so I had to 'choot 'em!" not really. deadly force rules are the same for everyone. Lol Lol all you want, in my state peace officers use the same standard for defense of self and others. Edit |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/2/2014 12:27:04 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That 10 min very well could have included a walk thru the residence, Really the only way it makes sense. And in the meantime, that's 10 minutes that the officer covering the back isn't being attacked by the dog.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/2/2014 12:27:31 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was smart and planned on the money running out from the get go when I was hired back in '93. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Didn't need the public's support, never had it, and still got my pension. Did you collect it in a lump sum? If not, you might want to look around at what is happening in this country. I was smart and planned on the money running out from the get go when I was hired back in '93. So you admit that pensions are at risk. Alienating the very people one needs to keep the money flowing isn't an intelligent strategy. But then, not everyone is a long term thinker. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/2/2014 12:27:42 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lol all you want, in my state peace officers use the same standard for defense of self and others. Edit How the law is written and how the law is applied are frequently two very, very different things. I doubt any of you actually believe the same standards are applied. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/2/2014 12:29:25 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
By the same justification you use to verify the address actually goes with the subject of the warrant. It was printed on a screen, it was the most current info. provided, I have no reason to doubt the poster provided false info......See how that works ?? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
3. Cross referencing is your friend...Let that sink in a bit ....Again cross referencing is you friend. If you are too stupid to realize that (supposedly) right address does NOT make everything that happens afterward OK, and that people can and frequently do, move from one domicile to another then you need a career change. The warrant is for the address listed on the warrant. Checking inside of or even the curtlage of a different address requires a new warrant. Da fuq are you talking about ????? ^^^^^^CASE IN POINT ^^^^^^^ Cross reference the info. on the warrant with multiple sources of pubic record, since by LE own admission the subjects of warrants tend to give false info., the onus to check across the board is even higher to verify that your info. is both CURRENT and CORRECT. Be prepared to re-evaluate on scene since you already know the possibility of shit being wrong is a given.. Last I checked you didn't need a warrant to research thru public record to see if any new or more current info. can be found on the subject of the warrant. Another poster came up with the subject's current facebook info. and phone number. I guess it's official, LE is dumber than GD, since GD can get better warrant service info.  How do you know that info the poster got was correct? It came from facebook and we all know that everything on the internet is true. By the same justification you use to verify the address actually goes with the subject of the warrant. It was printed on a screen, it was the most current info. provided, I have no reason to doubt the poster provided false info......See how that works ?? What serves you better in court and in reports? Court Records or Facebook? |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/2/2014 12:30:23 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How the law is written and how the law is applied are frequently two very, very different things. I doubt any of you actually believe the same standards are applied. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Lol all you want, in my state peace officers use the same standard for defense of self and others. Edit How the law is written and how the law is applied are frequently two very, very different things. I doubt any of you actually believe the same standards are applied. I wouldnt have said it otherwise
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/2/2014 12:30:35 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "I have not been attacked by a dog" =/= dogs dont attack people Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Good point. I have wrongly assumed the police would be more accurate than a delivery driver. Silly me. You put too much faith in delivery drivers I agree with you but when was the last time a person or pet was shot because of a mistake made by a delivery driver. I used to be a driver helper for UPS during the holidays when I was in college never shot anyone or anything, I'm also sure that during the course of four holiday season's I have delivered more packages to total strangers homes than most cops will ever respond to over the course of their careers and I still managed to do it without shooting anyone or their pets. "I have not been attacked by a dog" =/= dogs dont attack people Will see if I can find the pictures I think I saw them on an old drive awhile back. That was 10 years ago and it took me a good 3 years to make a full and complete recover for the bits. So yea I'm more than aware of how bad a dog bit can be even if it is only a few puncture wounds. The other 2 times it was nothing more than a torn pant leg. I'm not sure how many homes I've delivered to in 4 holiday seasons as a driver helper but I can tell you I have been to at least 5000+ homes and encountered 100's of dogs while only have 3 negative encounters than involved more than being chased or a dog running out and posturing in an aggressive manor. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/2/2014 12:30:49 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How the law is written and how the law is applied are frequently two very, very different things. I doubt any of you actually believe the same standards are applied. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Lol all you want, in my state peace officers use the same standard for defense of self and others. Edit How the law is written and how the law is applied are frequently two very, very different things. I doubt any of you actually believe the same standards are applied. I answered that in an earlier post in this thread, with recent personal experience. Your jurisdiction may vary, and I encourage you to solicit your legislators for redress. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/2/2014 12:30:53 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"Selling is legal. Fucking is legal. Why isn't selling fucking legal?!" Government can't get their slice of the pie on it. Governments main job now days is to take from certain people and give to other people. That shit ain't free. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/2/2014 12:31:14 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Lol all you want, in my state peace officers use the same standard for defense of self and others. The difference being, sir, is that if us "little folk" do it, we get brought before a Grand Jury and a Judge that don't know us from Billy-Bob. Whereas you get to have investigation by your friends/co-workers and go before a Judge that you might know and a Jury that believes that since you wear a badge, you could do no wrong. Big difference there...Just because the LAW states that we are the same, we are most definitely not treated the same. Do you get placed in handcuffs after you discharge your weapon while the initial investigation is started, because we do.... |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/2/2014 12:32:22 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have been attacked and bitten 3 times. The worst was the 2nd time by a chocolate lab who was sleeping on the porch behind some trash cans. Will see if I can find the pictures I think I saw them on an old drive awhile back. That was 10 years ago and it took me a good 3 years to make a full and complete recover for the bits. So yea I'm more than aware of how bad a dog bit can be even if it is only a few puncture wounds. The other 2 times it was nothing more than a torn pant leg. I'm not sure how many homes I've delivered to in 4 holiday seasons as a driver helper but I can tell you I have been to at least 5000+ homes and encountered 100's of dogs while only have 3 negative encounters than involved more than being chased or a dog running out and posturing in an aggressive manor. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Good point. I have wrongly assumed the police would be more accurate than a delivery driver. Silly me. You put too much faith in delivery drivers I agree with you but when was the last time a person or pet was shot because of a mistake made by a delivery driver. I used to be a driver helper for UPS during the holidays when I was in college never shot anyone or anything, I'm also sure that during the course of four holiday season's I have delivered more packages to total strangers homes than most cops will ever respond to over the course of their careers and I still managed to do it without shooting anyone or their pets. "I have not been attacked by a dog" =/= dogs dont attack people Will see if I can find the pictures I think I saw them on an old drive awhile back. That was 10 years ago and it took me a good 3 years to make a full and complete recover for the bits. So yea I'm more than aware of how bad a dog bit can be even if it is only a few puncture wounds. The other 2 times it was nothing more than a torn pant leg. I'm not sure how many homes I've delivered to in 4 holiday seasons as a driver helper but I can tell you I have been to at least 5000+ homes and encountered 100's of dogs while only have 3 negative encounters than involved more than being chased or a dog running out and posturing in an aggressive manor. In that one instance where you were injured, would you have shot the dog, if you were carrying a firearm? |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/2/2014 12:32:46 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have been attacked and bitten 3 times. The worst was the 2nd time by a chocolate lab who was sleeping on the porch behind some trash cans. Will see if I can find the pictures I think I saw them on an old drive awhile back. That was 10 years ago and it took me a good 3 years to make a full and complete recover for the bits. So yea I'm more than aware of how bad a dog bit can be even if it is only a few puncture wounds. The other 2 times it was nothing more than a torn pant leg. I'm not sure how many homes I've delivered to in 4 holiday seasons as a driver helper but I can tell you I have been to at least 5000+ homes and encountered 100's of dogs while only have 3 negative encounters than involved more than being chased or a dog running out and posturing in an aggressive manor. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Good point. I have wrongly assumed the police would be more accurate than a delivery driver. Silly me. You put too much faith in delivery drivers I agree with you but when was the last time a person or pet was shot because of a mistake made by a delivery driver. I used to be a driver helper for UPS during the holidays when I was in college never shot anyone or anything, I'm also sure that during the course of four holiday season's I have delivered more packages to total strangers homes than most cops will ever respond to over the course of their careers and I still managed to do it without shooting anyone or their pets. "I have not been attacked by a dog" =/= dogs dont attack people Will see if I can find the pictures I think I saw them on an old drive awhile back. That was 10 years ago and it took me a good 3 years to make a full and complete recover for the bits. So yea I'm more than aware of how bad a dog bit can be even if it is only a few puncture wounds. The other 2 times it was nothing more than a torn pant leg. I'm not sure how many homes I've delivered to in 4 holiday seasons as a driver helper but I can tell you I have been to at least 5000+ homes and encountered 100's of dogs while only have 3 negative encounters than involved more than being chased or a dog running out and posturing in an aggressive manor. then what is the point of your post? |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/2/2014 12:32:55 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OK....Let's run your scenario ....If this is an arrest warrant then there is not one fucking thing you can do if the suspect is concealed within the residence unless they somehow make their presence known to you. The king of the oompa-loompas could answer the door and say the suspect isn't there and are not known to them, Then what ?? You shoot the dog to provoke an emotional response that will hopefully flush the suspect from hiding Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Well first clue should be when a male answers the door instead of the female listed, you might want to radio your buddy out back and tell him to slow his roll, you know, de-escalate a bit. Second, keep officer "I gotta get it on" in the loop while questioning the male that answered the door, doesn't need to be a blow-by-blow account, Just maybe something along the lines of "these are not the droids we are looking for" type thing. Or maybe officer trigger happy could have put in a request for the dog owner to secure the animal ?? Or is that all too obvious ?? So she can't have a BF that lives with her or maybe a family member staying with her? I didn't realize that only people with the warrant out for them answer the door. Thanks for the tip. OK....Let's run your scenario ....If this is an arrest warrant then there is not one fucking thing you can do if the suspect is concealed within the residence unless they somehow make their presence known to you. The king of the oompa-loompas could answer the door and say the suspect isn't there and are not known to them, Then what ?? You shoot the dog to provoke an emotional response that will hopefully flush the suspect from hiding LOL...you really need to get back to reality if you can. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/2/2014 12:33:22 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wouldnt have said it otherwise Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Lol all you want, in my state peace officers use the same standard for defense of self and others. Edit How the law is written and how the law is applied are frequently two very, very different things. I doubt any of you actually believe the same standards are applied. I wouldnt have said it otherwise I should have said "I doubt many of you", not "any." My apologies. You are fantastically naive, though. The same standard for speeding tickets also exists in the written law; do you think it does in the real world as well? |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/2/2014 12:33:45 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The difference being, sir, is that if us "little folk" do it, we get brought before a Grand Jury and a Judge that don't know us from Billy-Bob. Whereas you get to have investigation by your friends/co-workers and go before a Judge that you might know and a Jury that believes that since you wear a badge, you could do no wrong. Big difference there...Just because the LAW states that we are the same, we are most definitely not treated the same. Do you get placed in handcuffs after you discharge your weapon while the initial investigation is started, because we do.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Lol all you want, in my state peace officers use the same standard for defense of self and others. The difference being, sir, is that if us "little folk" do it, we get brought before a Grand Jury and a Judge that don't know us from Billy-Bob. Whereas you get to have investigation by your friends/co-workers and go before a Judge that you might know and a Jury that believes that since you wear a badge, you could do no wrong. Big difference there...Just because the LAW states that we are the same, we are most definitely not treated the same. Do you get placed in handcuffs after you discharge your weapon while the initial investigation is started, because we do.... 
Shoot teams are not your friend. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/2/2014 12:35:59 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Again, please tell me why you shouldn't while the rest of us (commonly referred to as "them" in your "us and them" mentality) have to? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Let me phrase this so you can understand; Do I have to hear pew pew pew before I can pew pew pew back? I apologize I didn't use wording you liked Again, please tell me why you shouldn't while the rest of us (commonly referred to as "them" in your "us and them" mentality) have to? I didn't realize that civilians had to wait to be fired upon to defend themselves. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/2/2014 12:38:40 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Shoot teams are not your friend. I have the caveat of "coworkers" in there...
Seriously though, good, they shouldn't be because they should be looking to hold ALL Police Officers to a higher standard that exemplifies the outstanding work that 99% Police Officers do. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/2/2014 12:40:29 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I should have said "I doubt many of you", not "any." My apologies. You are fantastically naive, though. The same standard for speeding tickets also exists in the written law; do you think it does in the real world as well? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Lol all you want, in my state peace officers use the same standard for defense of self and others. Edit How the law is written and how the law is applied are frequently two very, very different things. I doubt any of you actually believe the same standards are applied. I wouldnt have said it otherwise I should have said "I doubt many of you", not "any." My apologies. You are fantastically naive, though. The same standard for speeding tickets also exists in the written law; do you think it does in the real world as well? no it doesnt you are fantastically diluted to believe that the standard for use of deadly force is NOT the same.
if you reasonably believe that someone is an imminent threat of great bodily harm or death to yourself or others, you can use deadly force. doesn't matter if you are a cop or not. that is the standard. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/2/2014 12:40:30 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The difference being, sir, is that if us "little folk" do it, we get brought before a Grand Jury and a Judge that don't know us from Billy-Bob. Whereas you get to have investigation by your friends/co-workers and go before a Judge that you might know and a Jury that believes that since you wear a badge, you could do no wrong. Big difference there...Just because the LAW states that we are the same, we are most definitely not treated the same. Do you get placed in handcuffs after you discharge your weapon while the initial investigation is started, because we do.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Lol all you want, in my state peace officers use the same standard for defense of self and others. The difference being, sir, is that if us "little folk" do it, we get brought before a Grand Jury and a Judge that don't know us from Billy-Bob. Whereas you get to have investigation by your friends/co-workers and go before a Judge that you might know and a Jury that believes that since you wear a badge, you could do no wrong. Big difference there...Just because the LAW states that we are the same, we are most definitely not treated the same. Do you get placed in handcuffs after you discharge your weapon while the initial investigation is started, because we do.... Not all of 'you.' I don't work in Arizona, and have never served as a policeman outside Georgia. I have attended many shootings, stabbings, and arrest warrants where folks were cuffed and charged appropriately. I have also attended a few where someone was defending their person, was not cuffed, and not charged. The OIS I've been present for, including my own, no, we were not handcuffed. We were investigated by fellow officers, but depending on the department, you may or may not want them working the case. In either, the GBI (our state level 5.11 fashion show) does the external investigation. At my last department, the man in charge of IA was quoted as saying, "My investigators' job is to find the officer guilty." My current department, not so much. I will grant that an officer involved shooting will be experienced differently than a Joe the Armed Citizen shooting. Much of that difference, especially outside my jurisdiction, I can't influence. Until I'm elected King, that is
|
|
|
|
Posted: 1/2/2014 12:41:23 PM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: 3. Cross referencing is your friend...Let that sink in a bit ....Again cross referencing is you friend. If you are too stupid to realize that (supposedly) right address does NOT make everything that happens afterward OK, and that people can and frequently do, move from one domicile to another then you need a career chan The warrant is for the address listed on the warrant. Checking inside of or even the curtlage of a different address requires a new warrant. Da fuq are you talking about ????? ^^^^^^CASE IN POINT ^^^^^^^ Cross reference the info. on the warrant with multiple sources of pubic record, since by LE own admission the subjects of warrants tend to give false info., the onus to check across the board is even higher to verify that your info. is both CURRENT and CORRECT. Be prepared to re-evaluate on scene since you already know the possibility of shit being wrong is a given.. Last I checked you didn't need a warrant to research thru public record to see if any new or more current info. can be found on the subject of the warrant. Another poster came up with the subject's current facebook info. and phone number. I guess it's official, LE is dumber than GD, since GD can get better warrant service info.
How do you know that info the poster got was correct? It came from facebook and we all know that everything on the internet is true. By the same justification you use to verify the address actually goes with the subject of the warrant. It was printed on a screen, it was the most current info. provided, I have no reason to doubt the poster provided false info......See how that works ?? What serves you better in court and in reports? Court Records or Facebook? Considering how I keep seeing that LE is using Facebook to bust idiots wholesale, I can't see that either one would be more beneficial than the other. I would imagine the one with the most accurate info. would be given the most weight. If it's admissible, then it's admissible correct ?? Given the numerous times LE have posted in this thread of how folks lie on court documents I would think an argument could be made that each are equally valid....YMMV. |
|
|
|
Posted: 1/2/2014 12:41:41 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Shoot teams are not your friend. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Lol all you want, in my state peace officers use the same standard for defense of self and others. The difference being, sir, is that if us "little folk" do it, we get brought before a Grand Jury and a Judge that don't know us from Billy-Bob. Whereas you get to have investigation by your friends/co-workers and go before a Judge that you might know and a Jury that believes that since you wear a badge, you could do no wrong. Big difference there...Just because the LAW states that we are the same, we are most definitely not treated the same. Do you get placed in handcuffs after you discharge your weapon while the initial investigation is started, because we do....
Shoot teams are not your friend. Not in the slightest. I've been involved in two OISs as a non trigger puller and I hated those investigations let alone as the actual shooter. We bring in an outside agency to run our OIS investigations and they look for all possible ways to burn you ETA: I should also note I've been involved in a couple self defense cases and I never even requested charges |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
