Actually the Losertarians want to go one step further and welcome ALL illegal aliens (i.e. "refugees") with hugs and kisses.

From the [url=http://www.lp.org/issues/platform/execsumm.html]Libertarian Party Platform:[/url]
Libertarians want open borders! WHOO HOO!

If you and your gang of Johnny Malvo-wannabes can manage to sneak your asses across our border, the Libertarians will be there to greet you with open arms and protect your "human rights".

So any lazy, worthless, AIDS/Hepatitis/TB-infected soon-to-be-criminal scumbag who can make it across our border (which the Libertarians would effectively erase) will be afforded a full welcome and acceptance into our already over-diseased prison-bloating society.

"Long live Aztlan!"

Ahh, the American Anarchist party.

Free access to slaves and drugs...

This one in particular pisses me off.



So not only do they want a bunch of illegals in here, they want people to own firearms without any level of government restrictions! Can you believe that?!?! This place would turn into the wild west all over again. Thank God our law-makers see the problems with this and understand that some guns are simply suited to criminal use. Stupid losertarians.

We'd have to get rid of all tax funded freebies at the same time

If they are such "losers" and "anarchists" why do you republicrats want the libertarian votes so desperately?

If they are such "losers" and "anarchists" why do you republicrats believe that the libertarians solely hold the power to make your candidates lose elections?

Talk about needing a tin foil hat, the GOP should invest in Kaiser Aluminum and hand out foil beanies at every political rally.

They are scarcely the only people with THAT position on THAT issue Diesel.

AlQieda may support RKBA, that doesn't make them sane or their policies as a whole any more palitable.

Yep, these fine young refugees would be very greatful for the positions taken by the Libertarian party:

[img]http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2002/US/Central/09/27/bank.slayings/story.suspect2.ap.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i.cnn.net/cnn/2002/US/Central/09/27/bank.slayings/story.suspect1.ap.jpg[/img]

If we can get more Libertarians get elected, then we can be sure to see even more of these types of honorable refugees crossing our soon-to-be-erased southern border.

Bush and the Republicans' half-hearted amnesty proposal are not enough!

We need to welcome [b]ALL[/b] refugees to our country!

¿Qué banco usted desea para robar hoy a señor?

Fortunately we no longer do. We just get to ridicule them now for trying to give control of the government to our mutual enemies.

with the new [s]gestapo[/s] department of homeland security, we wouldn't have to worry about dem terroramists. uncles sam would be able to catch anyone planning bad things and make them disappear. Thank you republicans for this awesome new gubnimint protector. i feel safer already.

¿Puedo satisfacer les mato?

To split the vote. Democrats and Libertarians share common ground on allowing UNLIMITED amounts of [s]illegal aliens[/s] refugees into our country.

Republicans, being the racist bigots they are hold on to the obsolete notions of "Borders, Language & Culture". They're dinosaurs holding on to outdated notions of National Soveriegnty.

Make way for the Libertarian/Democrat express!  

Viva Aztlan!!

what makes someone a refugee? would candidates for immigration have to demonstrate that they are fleeing a real human rights abuse in their own country?

“The Libertarian Party has long recognized the importance of allowing free and open immigration, understanding that this leads to a growing and more prosperous America.”

[url]http://www.lp.org/issues/immigration.html[/url]

Ludicrous.

ARH

You geniuses aren't much on [b]context[/b], are you?  A little further in the same freakin paragraph it says

Immigration is not "illegal aliens."

I see you're enjoying the greatest encroachments on civil rights in the history of the country.  Live it up!

Campaign Finance Reform
"Patriot" Act
Homeland Security Act.

Thank YOU republicans!  We all need someone to save us from ourselves.  Will you also hold my dick while I pee?  I can't be trusted with that either.

Scott

If the Libs abolish drug laws and welfare, the only people immigrating to this country will be those intending to work hard.

Nevermind I can't back this up with anything solid.

What do you think free and open immigration mean?
It means that anybody and everybody can immigrate. Open borders will not help anything, or make a  growing and more prosperous America.” If the borders are open, there will be no such thing as illigal immigration.

"You geniuses aren't much on [b]context[/b], are you?  A little further in the same freakin paragraph it says
All that says is that when people arrive to the U.S. there will be no government programs to help them. There will also be no jobs or job training for the millions of uneducated, illiterate people that flood the country.
Put that in "context."

ARH

Post from Imbroglio -

Well, like the poor distraught mother at the gate of the prison where her son is being put to death for some gawd-awful crimes, we keep thinking that y'all will see the error of your ways!

Much like that poor mother, we know we will be disappointed! But we can't help ourselves! [:D]

I don't! There ain't enough of y'all to fill a good sized high school auditorium.

What can you say about a third party that reached the zenith of its trajectory back in 1988?

Do y'all even remember 1988? That was when now-Republican Ron Paul ran for the Presidency. It was as good as y'all are ever gonna get!

[b]Forget baseball cards! Y'all need to start collecting Libertarian memorabilia from the 1988 General Elections![/b]

Libertarian Party Posters and campaign buttons will be worth a Mickey Mantle rookie card one day! [:D]

Seriously, y'all folks only hold a negative power, not a positive power.

[b]You can get folks defeated, you so and so's just can't get [u]anyone[/u] elected![/b]

Now, I do admit that you have some expertise on the tin-foil hat side of the equation, so we may need to consider your proposal!

Shiny side in, or out?

Eric The(RaucusCaucus)Hun[>]:)]

True, but Libertarians also want stricter enforcement of property rights and an end to the welfare state, which would pretty much elminate the reason for most people to come here illegally.  If people had to make it on their own, fewer would bother.  

The problem with illegal immigrants isn't their border crossing ways, per se, it is that they supposedly create a drain on the system.  Personally, I am in favor of private groups like Ranch Rescue who try to discourage these illegal incursions onto private property.    

Also, I think if the nation has immigration laws, then they should be enforced.  The problem of course, is that there is such pressure on the immigration system, and the laws are so ridiculously out of date and unenforceable, that the government has all but given up enforcing them.  Hence, they ought to be repealed.  

Amnesty is just political hay.  You don't let people who break the law get away with it because that sends the message that this nation's laws are a joke (which most of them are, btw).  Bush wants more votes is all that is.  Another reason why I hate Republicans just as much as Democrats!  Communitarianism vs. Socialism.  They're the same damn thing!


The_Macallan, I would like to point out to you that 4 bad men in a sea of tens of thousands of good men and women is hardly a logical justification for keeping them all out.  There are plenty of white, middle class bad apples out there as well you know.


Hun, I've said it before to you and I'll say it again:  It doesn't take very many right-minded people to make a difference.  Libertarians have an impact on policy making in this country whether you realize it or not.  The fact that we are so few is more a sign of how dangerously irrational people have become.

Libertarians have lost their minds on this issue. They have little chance of ending all welfare programs and other higher costs associated with massive influxes of poverty-stricken ignorant people (and yes, that's what open-borders means - not picking and choosing the ones that can pay their way), [u]but can lend support to the amnesty initiative[/u] (rewarding people who have blatantly flouted our laws while others had to play by the rules) WHICH HAS NONE OF THOSE PROVISIONS AT ALL.

If they were to put these ideas off UNTIL they reform the government on everything else, there might be some logic to it. As it is they would be amplifying all the costs they believe government should not be involved with in the first place!

Principles over common sense.

$6000-7000 + per child in local taxes for schooling - which low-wage workers do not make up in their property taxes - as well as mind boggling emergency room costs, as no one can be denied by law; and this is the "health plan" that most of them use, to be passed on to the rest of us.

Net effect: We get all the immigrants you can imagine, worse schools, and medical care that fewer can afford. Not to mention bloated state and federal budgets, larger trade deficits (as most of what we buy is made elsewhere), more dependence on foreign energy (plenty of immigration under Clinton, and it went up from 40% of our energy imported to 60% in just 8 years), more pollution (requiring the world socialists to work harder to impose taxes and fines on our businesses, to combat global warming), etc. (And of course the South-West and California have all the water one could want to support these new populations... yeah right.)

Sounds lovely!

(Of course, the overwhelming number will vote democrat anyway - but we'll pretend that we can convert them, on basic principles... [rolleyes])

So we have a few Losertarians who can't see beyond their noses and are actually trying to DEFEND the elimination of our national borders and national soveriegnty.


What the fucking Losertarians don't understand is that IF they ever DO get control of Gov't and institute their open-border immigration policy - they will flood this nation with tens of millions of Mexicans who will immediately turn around and vote YOU out of office and vote themselves and their extended families back in Mexico all the welfare entitlements your stupid over-worked backs can support!


Fucking Losertarians! Can even ONE of you just TRY getting in touch with reality for once?

Mac, if that happens, and the libs were in power, please keep in mind you and all your white neighbours can defend their land because they bought select fire M16's for $700 and UMP's for $950, and they bought them online with 2nd day delivery to boot.

Ram.

"A minimi owning society is a polite society"

I see your point but I want to protect more than just my property.

As Michael Savage says, "Borders, Language, Culture"

before open immagration happends libertarions would. reinstate second amedment, can welfare, and a bunch of other things hence u coudlnt leech off the system! and the only people that would immagrate would be hardworkers.

If we had a situation where the immigrants that are currently in this country had the legal right to own property and engage in trade or gain employment as easily as a similarly-qualified Americans, we'll see a larger number of them able to have proper families and make good money (very difficult to do either If you have no papers, you end up working illegally... guess what shit you may end up doing). These people will become strong members of our community.

Welfare will be abolished, so lazy fuckers will either work or starve. If life isn't easy here, immigrants wont come. Remember, the easiest most profitable job at the low end of the job market is DRUG DEALING. Alot of lazy fuckers lead reasonably decent lives today because of the drug prohibition. This segment disappears.

However, as a student of economics, I believe that open immigration is a horribly bad idea. The optimal situation is selective immigration, where we only take in immigrants whose presence here will benifit us. Unfortunately politicians, immigration officials, and citizens of a democracy tend to make decisions on who to let in and who not to based on emotion and not economic sense.

For instance, this country will benefit from attracting immigrants for things like fruit picking and janitorial work. The economy is slowing down and we don't really need more people for the construction industry, but maintenance services? Hell yeah. You might imagine your plumbing costs falling when a whole bunch of new people start getting certified.

One concern is that wages are so low as it is compared to the cost of living, and allowing immigrants in will further depress wages and make life bad for alot of us. You should consider the impact Libertarian tax policies will have on both our take home wages and our costs of living. With no drug war, no welfare, no spending $billions sending our troops to be hung out to dry in Mogadishu, our tax rates will fall. Our take home pay increases. Even further, decreasing tax rates will lead to increased labor productivity. Businesses and industries will pay less in taxes and this will cause a huge chain reaction between primary producers, manufacturers, retailers, and consumers causing prices to fall. So although your nominal wages will all fall, the real value of our wages will not. If you consider that a faaaar smaller government will use money faaar more efficiently, and that surplus goes to The People, our real wages will most certainly increase. The lives of the American people as a whole will most definitely improve, although the distribution of wealth will change too.

Druglords stand to lose. Lazy people stand to lose. Government contractors stand to lose. So plumbers unions, steelworkers, and farmers lobby the system to make decisions that are unfavorable to society. Ah yes, the Libs will not allow the steel tariff and farm bill BS that these crooks have managed to pull off.

Now lets look at your border, culture, and language. If your border, culture, and language do not have the strength to stand up to a little competition with some immigrant culture, then it don't deserve to stand bro. The second generation of immigrants growing up in this country will go to school and learn english. People will want to, they'll chose to learn english. Many of them will, at least, because they know the benefits of it. Educated people ALL OVER THE WORLD chose to learn to speak english because of the access it gives them to communications and information they wont otherwise have. So maybe many of these immigrants will influence some American kids to pick up their language. Would it bother you so much Mac if your son decided that Spanish was the most romantic language on earth, and learned it to write prose? Does it bother you so much that your children may adopt Mexican or Chinese food as their cuisine of choice?

Our lifestyle and culture are very different now than Americans of the late 18th century. Immigrants added so much to the cultural melting pot and the genepool to make us what we are today, to what we consider American music and what we consider American food. Don't be afraid of change Mac.


Ram.

(Steps off the soapbox)

Edited because I didn't proof read it before clicking submit! Damn immigrants son quality language skills.

What im having trouble understanding is that Libertarians are "losers" for agreeing with a Republican president. Would that not make Republidiots as well? I guess not. Libertarians are inconsequential anyways.

I dont always agree with what the Libertarian party says, but they are good as a whole. It seems quite obviouse that people are just looking for any excuse to put libertarians down while ignoring the defeciencies in their own championed party.

If you believe that Libertarians WANT terrorist in this country to kill/harm their own family members and loved ones, then you are a GOD-DAMNED FUCKING MORON!!!

The Libs stance on borders is based on Principle. while it may not ever work in my lifetime or the next. This does not meant that such a principle could never be applied under better circumstances where freedom and economy is better secured.

Lib-who is opening his arms to nit-picking asswipes.

Hey Ram,

Boy, you raise a lot of points. Hard to decide what to respond to.

Tell us a little about yourself. How long has your family been in the U.S.?

I'm thinking that your ancestry is Indian. Is that right?

But, if libertarians had their way, there would be no illegal entry: all is legal. the welfare issue is irrelevant, libertarians want to open the borders to all. let the terrorists on in (but no welfare for them)

Actually, according to the libertarian website, its a racist myth that immigrants come here to get on welfare:

"Contrary to stereotypes, there is no evidence that immigrants come to this country to receive welfare. Indeed, most studies show that immigrants actually use welfare at lower rates than do native-born Americans."
[url]http://www.lp.org/issues/immigration.html[/url]

Considering the andecdotal stories I've read in this forum of the people they see standing in line at welfare offices, that seems quite plausible.

Do you NOT remember the HUGE discussion that YOU started about how the libertarians helped the dem win that senate election? You know [url=http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=153117&w=searchPop]THIS ONE[/url]?!?!?



As I posted in another thread:

Not ALL libertarians believe this. The LP does, but there is a strong contingent which does not(specificlly the Lew Rockwell/paleolibertarian one), because this would actually be against the libertarian philosophy. This is because protecting private property is very important, and if one is allowed to keep unwanted people of one's land, then the government should be able to keep unwanted people from coming into its territory.

Don't paint libs with one brush.

IMO he will pull a klinton and say "I don't remember, I don't recall". This crap is typical. Remember how klinton would bomb aspirin factories to direct attention away from his criminal acts? Well we have the republican't sheeple trying to direct attetion away from the massive Orwellian government that their own "Big Brother" signed into law today by dredging up the lame tactic of accusing someone of doing exactly what you are doing.  Oh yes, and to complain that the libertarians would have let in terrorists is another deception tactic. IT WAS UNDER THE REPUBLICAN'T ADMINISTRATION THAT THE 911 TERRORIST WERE ALLOWED TO STAY IN THE U.S. EVEN AFTER THEY HAD BEEN DISCOVERED. Never ending blame, blame, blame a third party for their own failings.

But they were just doing EXACTLY what Libertarians would do - "welcome all refugees to our country".

From the Losertarian Party Platform:

[i]"We therefore call for... full amnesty for [b]all[/b] people who have entered the country illegally." [/i]

That means even the 9-11 terrorists.

Ok, it's time for you to tone down your language here.

Since Mac and others are on the attack again to cover up the fact that Heir Bush is taking over the country, Let me ask them one question. If the Libertarians were in power, then almost every one of the people on the four flights that were the disaster called 9/11 would have been packing.....what do you say now you fricking republican apologists? How long are you going to try to blame everything on everybody else?
Once again, you boys and your party have two years and then you are going to be just as historical as the dems.....enjoy your champagne and country clubs while you can.

Some of you guys are nuts (Hun, Macallan).  Look, national borders and national sovereignty are basically gone RIGHT NOW.  The whole thing is pretty much an illusion kept up for the benefit of the people.  We already live in a global society, it's here.  There's no way out of it.

The problem is not immigration, the problem is coercive, big government.  Reduce big government and it really doesn't matter who votes for what, it will have a very limited impact anyways.  

That may sound absurd, but it is already happening right before our eyes.  Our government is totally ineffective RIGHT NOW.  Bureaucrats are desperately grabbing at straws everywhere possible. State governments, too--their costs are spiralling upwards and at some point the citizenry is not going to be able to foot the bills anymore.  It's all coming to an end, just like the Soviet system did.

Everything in this country has become an illusion.  The fed has been printing more money to try and hold back what is inevitable.  That's why the Dow is still at an unrealistically high 8000+ today and not somwhere in the low 5s or 4s where it ought to be.  No one I know can save any money anymore, families have to have two incomes in order to pay for what one income used to easily cover.  Inflation is being hidden--prices aren't rising, but the quality and amount of products you are getting continually get smaller instead (and prices thus can remain "the same"--but you are really paying more).  How long before what was once a 16oz. amount that is now a 13.5oz. amount goes all the way to 5oz. or less?  See?  It simply can't go on forever.  You wouldn't even be able to afford clothes except for the fact that slave labor in the far east has taken over the textile industry.

We have a choice.  We can either end it now and do it in a controlled fashion, or (and most likely) we will let it spiral out of control, and lead to chaos, and lots and lots of people will get killed.  One thing is certain, childishly avoiding reality and hoping that if everyone does it, bad things won't happen, is not going to work!  

Most libertarians paint all republicans with the same brush; one anti-gun republican, then they are all involved in a massive conspiracy. Or one supports "homeland security," then they all want to take away our rights for no good reason. But I always see libertarians backtracking: "well I don't agree with the libertarian party's stance on the death penalty, abortion, immigration, drugs, race baiting, etc"