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Posted: 11/16/2002 9:47:35 AM EDT
[#1]
I finally understand the term [b]CLUSTER FUCK!!![/b]
This whole thing is a mess. This board, sadly, will suffer and I doubt Anti/G-N-B board will last long. Greed is ugly. Sgtar15 |
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Posted: 11/16/2002 9:47:39 AM EDT
[#2]
Quoted: …….I decided to take Rock River Arms side on this. When Tim Green posted that he was calling for a boycott of Rock River Arms because they dropped the ball on the Hero Rifles Well I talked to the owners of Rock River Arms that day Tim G. posted that. I informed them that the post was not with the sanction of AR15.com and was totally done by Castle Arms. Rock River's side of the Hero rifle debacle is as follows. When the original order was placed for the LEGP AR15.com rifles Castle Arms never came through with the quantity they commited to verbally. So RRA did not take thier verbal commitment for the Hero rifles seriously. RRA repeatedly tried to get Castle Arms to commit funds or even issue a purchase order for the Hero Rifles. Castle Arms would not do so. It was my understanding the funds for the Hero Rifles was collected ahead of time and could have been forwarded to Rock River Arms when the order was placed. Kudos to Armalite for comming through on those rifles on such short notice but it was the previous friction between Castle Arms and Rock River Arms that caused Rock River never to fill that order not just a drop the ball on Rock River Arms part. The other side of the story which was posted but seems to be forgotten now. The Hero’s Rifle was a different project that the LEGP. Written Purchase Orders were giving for orders to RRA. While Castle did not come through with the quantity we committed to, RRA never came through with the production time promised & needed to make the sales. We did coordinate with RRA to keep them informed so they would not overextend buying of components for rifles that orders were not coming in for due to production delays. A written Purchase order was sent to RRA for the Hero’s Rifles, 111401JS1. Here is the history Orders placed 10-12-01, 11-6-01 & 11-14-01 Faxed inquiry 12-3-01 No response (delivery confirmed) Faxed another inquiry 12-10-01 No response (delivery confirmed) Phone inquiry 12-12-01 Spoke to woman, she spoke to a man & her quote was “he said we will ship tonight” Phone inquiry 12-19-01: Spoke to Mark he said would ship that night Phone inquiry 1-7-02: Spoke to Mark, he will check into it. Phone inquiry 1-7-02: Spoke to Mark, he will check into it Phoned inquiry 1-15 5:10 pm left message asking them to call ref a PO for standard A2. No response – delivery confirmed Faxed inquiry 1-17-02. (inquired about all open orders) No response – delivery confirmed Faxed inquiry 1-24-02. “ No response – delivery confirmed Faxed inquiry 2-1-02. “ No response – delivery confirmed 2-2 Spoke to them (terry) & placed order at Shot Show for more rifles, they said thanks. Did not speak to Mark or Chuck. Faxed inquiry 2-10 (inquired about all open orders) No response – delivery confirmed 2-13-02 Referred customer to RRA to check on their order since no response. Faxed inquiry 2-14-02 (inquired about all open orders) No response – delivery confirmed 2-19-02 Phone call from one of the Hero recipients saying he just had a call from Rock River ref info on the LE Tac stock. RRA said stocks were available & calling because the person was on their list to call if interested. When the subject of the Hero rifles was raised Linda said she didn’t know a thing about them & maybe their fax machine had run out of paper. Mark then called the recipient said he would call Castle right away. No call Faxed inquiry 2-20-02 (inquired about all open orders) No response – delivery confirmed Faxed cancellation of Hero’s rifles & other orders for other FFL & users. |
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Posted: 11/16/2002 9:54:06 AM EDT
[#3]
The cost of an LEGP.
Much has been made of the profit motive behind Castle Arms in doing the LEGP & how unfair it has been to the members of AR15.COM. There is far more to producing this for the members than most can imagine. Few, other FFLs, distributors or manufacturers will absorb what Castle did on behave of its customers. 2001 LEGP Sale Price including shipping $660.00 Cost -$610.00 Inbound Freight per rifle -$5.00 Ave Freight to ship each rifle -$20.00 Gross Profit per rifle $25.00 From these gross profits needs to be deducted: Additional costs incurred by dealer: Federal taxes on income Flyer printing & distribution costs Travel to promote at shows Telephone & faxes to buyers, mfgr & distributors FFL paperwork to receive FFL paperwork to ship State paper work required Fees paid to online forum Time to consolidate orders (accessories) & make shipment Cost of collecting, tracking & disbursing Server Fund to AR15.COM Cost of stripped lower of prototype given to AR15.COM Website developmental work to change Castle’s site for the sale Accounting time Summary: Who made money & benefited? The people who benefited were the buyers, as the project was meant. As a FFL, Castle Arms makes no apology for being so crass as to try to cover expenses. |
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Posted: 11/16/2002 11:19:49 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted: 2001 LEGP Sale Price including shipping $660.00 Cost -$610.00 Inbound Freight per rifle -$5.00 Ave Freight to ship each rifle -$20.00 Gross Profit per rifle $25.00 Interesting numbers John (yes this is JOHN SPAKE) posting as AAron (urudogi) The first version of this you posted (I hope I can find it),had a profit of $15.00/rifle because it included a $10 payment to AR15.com Now that [u]we reminded you[/u] that we did not request (nor did we get) any "kickback" for the nearly 400 rifles sold,the numbers have been CORRECTED to reflect the previous error. Don't you guys have books with accurate accounting that would avoid these oversights? |
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Posted: 11/16/2002 12:05:54 PM EDT
[#5]
No, I assure you it is me. I'm using a comp at the Castle Stove factory.
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Posted: 11/16/2002 1:51:10 PM EDT
[#6]
Well then, aren't you going to say hello? [:)]
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Posted: 11/16/2002 2:09:08 PM EDT
[#7]
John,
Did you get the email I sent you about a solution to this problem. I believe 95% of this can be solved if we work this out via my proposal. |
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Posted: 11/16/2002 11:12:53 PM EDT
[#8]
"Mr. Clean" should [b]Clean up his mess![/b]
Return the BIA money, if you still have it! [url]rbad.ar15.com/mrclean.wav[/url] |
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Posted: 11/18/2002 1:20:00 AM EDT
[#9]
The next "LEGP" will include a $0 profit margin as it will be handled by the site and VOLUNTEERS. Questions regarding money collected will be answerable, because we will take full responsibility. If I had to "cover expenses" then the site wouldn't exist. You see many of us here do this because of what it means to EVERYONE and because of a PASSION. The LEGP break was done simply for this reason and because we can work better with manufacturers. This was never an issue for the break from our side, but it may have been a point of contention against us.
It's funny that you post the truth for once regarding the LEGP sales, when John, only a few weeks ago, said that AR15.Com received $10 per rifle. (We did for the 2002 LEGPS which sold about 80 rifles, but the 2001's which sold close to 400 we did not.) I don't mean to be a dick, just clarifying things. While you're here, do you also want to clarify the fact that AR15.Com covered the BRC banner, advertising, forums, etc with nothing in return from Castle. We did get $5 of door reg's, but again we never asked for it, just like we never asked Castle to pay for our "joint effort" on behalf of the community. (BTW if Castle was losing money and still could afford to kick out $5/reg, where did all the other money go??? I told John I would have GLADLY let him keep the $5 if he needed it. Speaking of losing money, how can you guys afford to give out rifles on your new site? Why does all this just NOT MAKE ANY SENSE!!! It's these half truths and lies which are the problem.) The relationship was to be a cooperative effort. What ended up happening was we were kept in the dark on all the financial ins and outs and have no idea what was collected at the BRC in terms of prizes. Thus, the best move we could have made, was a quiet split away from Castle and regaining our accountability to the community, what happened is what everyone has had to deal with, a nightmare. I do applaud someone finally stating the truth about matters, but will you stop there? Many here wish to know where the BIA fund is? Or if it will ever be used for it's intended purpose, especially in the wake of your new "business" website? Can we get a public list of the prizes given out (and the winners) in the private "raffle"? How about a list of all the prizes which were collected and who their current whereabouts? With the truth, we may be able to finally put things to rest. There are a number of prizes still unaccounted for and all I see from Castle is insults and lies such as: Originally posted by Admin [b][Tim Greene At GT][/b]: It is kinda funny that you mention this, because you'll never guess what the huge software development project that Ed and Juan Avila have been working on... Something to do with a FIREARMS REGISTRATION PROGRAM for Canada. This info comes via a phone conversation w/ Juan roughly a year ago! Notice that he uses our full names to be CLEAR about where to point his anger. You can go tell Tim that I look FORWARD to seeing him at the Shot Show in February. Yeah, I am obviously pissed off. Working till 5am and seeing the above post as a personal insult kinda puts ya in a shitty mood. I'm sure I'll calm down a bit tomorrow, but I sure as hell wont forget how you all have handled yourselves during this mess. |
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