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Posted: 10/20/2013 4:05:24 PM EDT
 It's not any kind of ATF registered shotgun, the owner claims that because it never had a stock it was never a shotgun under 18 usc 921 (a) (5) and therefore is not a short barreled shotgun under(a) (6) |
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Posted: 10/20/2013 4:06:46 PM EDT
[#1]
 in for the answer. |
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Posted: 10/20/2013 4:06:54 PM EDT
[#2]
I think any smooth bore bbl has to have a length of 18", pistol grip or not.
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Posted: 10/20/2013 4:06:58 PM EDT
[#3]
Pistol! got for it!
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Posted: 10/20/2013 4:07:24 PM EDT
[#4]
good luck with that
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Posted: 10/20/2013 4:07:49 PM EDT
[#5]
Wasn't they a huge thread by jrzy about this?
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Posted: 10/20/2013 4:08:02 PM EDT
[#6]
If the barrel is rifled, it's a handgun, if it is unrifled, and under 18", it must be registered as an AOW, ( any other weapon) under the NFA.
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Posted: 10/20/2013 4:09:02 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think any smooth bore bbl has to have a length of 18", pistol grip or not. I don't think that's a pistol grip. |
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Posted: 10/20/2013 4:09:10 PM EDT
[#8]
thigh gap is 18" I think, will have to measure
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Posted: 10/20/2013 4:09:20 PM EDT
[#9]
If it's over 26" OAL, and the barrel is a smoothbore, it's kosher.
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Posted: 10/20/2013 4:09:44 PM EDT
[#10]
Redacted upon further information. Seems like a neat trick, but I don't think I want to try it.
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Posted: 10/20/2013 4:09:53 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think any smooth bore bbl has to have a length of 18", pistol grip or not. If it's a smoothbore, it would likely be considered a "smoothbore pistol" and hence an AOW. If the barrel were longer, it would likely fall into the amorphous title I category of "it's a normal firearm but not a rifle, shotgun, or pistol". If it's rifled... it might just be considered a pistol and be gtg. |
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Posted: 10/20/2013 4:09:57 PM EDT
[#12]
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Posted: 10/20/2013 4:10:11 PM EDT
[#13]
It looks like a AOW to me, can I please see your $5.00 tax stamp
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Posted: 10/20/2013 4:10:18 PM EDT
[#14]
Heh.
I was just reading another thread where people were discussing some ridiculous stocks used to skirt CA law or something and was just thinking how silly we must look if our founders could see us now. 
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Posted: 10/20/2013 4:10:38 PM EDT
[#15]
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Posted: 10/20/2013 4:10:59 PM EDT
[#16]
Maybe, if the overall length is over 26" but the barrel is less than 18" AND it has never had a stock, someone effectively tricked the ATF in to admitting that such a gun is a "firearm" not a pistol/handgun or a rifle/shotgun. I sure as hell wouldn't want to be the test case, but people are taking advantage of the ATFs admittion.
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Posted: 10/20/2013 4:11:05 PM EDT
[#17]
Her shirt reads "Senior 04", so yes, legal!
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Posted: 10/20/2013 4:11:33 PM EDT
[#18]
That is a AOW
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Posted: 10/20/2013 4:12:33 PM EDT
[#19]
I think if it's over 26" OAL and a virgin receiver it's considered a "firearm" and not a SBS as far as NFA goes.
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Posted: 10/20/2013 4:12:38 PM EDT
[#20]
Somebody's dag is gonna be shot.
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Posted: 10/20/2013 4:12:40 PM EDT
[#21]
Is this person located in NY state?
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Posted: 10/20/2013 4:12:51 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't think that's a pistol grip. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I think any smooth bore bbl has to have a length of 18", pistol grip or not. I don't think that's a pistol grip. Doesn't matter. Smooth bore has to have an 18" bbl in any configuration. Or get a stamp. I seem to recall a few years back someone got a smooth bore smith revolver. Factory mistake and they had to either get it registered as an AOW or SBS or return it to s&w for a new bbl. |
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Posted: 10/20/2013 4:12:53 PM EDT
[#23]
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Posted: 10/20/2013 4:13:33 PM EDT
[#24]
Yup, AOW. Looks like the 14" model that Mossberg manufactures.
Edited for a herpin' and a derpin'.
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Posted: 10/20/2013 4:13:55 PM EDT
[#25]
if its legal then my factory pistol grip mossberg 500 is getting a furniture change
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Posted: 10/20/2013 4:14:05 PM EDT
[#26]
I wouldn't trust an ATF "you know what" to be very discerning regarding the details of your interpretation.
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Posted: 10/20/2013 4:14:12 PM EDT
[#27]
It's not a shotgun so it's legal.
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Posted: 10/20/2013 4:14:16 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think any smooth bore bbl has to have a length of 18", pistol grip or not. Negative. Shotgun is legal. |
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Posted: 10/20/2013 4:14:42 PM EDT
[#29]
One would think if that was legal you would see them for sale either on gunbroker or gun stores or the like.
With the way the Serbu's draw attention being an AOW and requiring a stamp, this would be a good way to circumvent a stamp/ATF involvement and still have a nice little beater trunk/truck gun IMO. I'm in the thread to find out more, pending some actual factual evidence per Some ATF rules quoting, I would like to build me one. ****ninja edit! now seeing the above website, it seems there is some clarification*** |
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Posted: 10/20/2013 4:14:43 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
if its legal then my factory pistol grip mossberg 500 is getting a furniture change Do it just don't post pictures. |
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Posted: 10/20/2013 4:14:57 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Doesn't matter. Smooth bore has to have an 18" bbl in any configuration. No. Or get a stamp. I seem to recall a few years back someone got a smooth bore smith revolver. Factory mistake and they had to either get it registered as an AOW or SBS or return it to s&w for a new bbl. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I think any smooth bore bbl has to have a length of 18", pistol grip or not. I don't think that's a pistol grip. Doesn't matter. Smooth bore has to have an 18" bbl in any configuration. No. Or get a stamp. I seem to recall a few years back someone got a smooth bore smith revolver. Factory mistake and they had to either get it registered as an AOW or SBS or return it to s&w for a new bbl. |
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Posted: 10/20/2013 4:15:07 PM EDT
[#32]
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1077741_.html
I will post proof in a couple of days.
Basically if a shotgun comes from the factory with a pistol grip or it's a virgin receiver never having had any stock other than a pistol grip it can have any barrel length and not be an AOW requiring form 1 or form 4. There is a a requirement that is must still have an overall length from the furthest point of the pistol grip to the end of the barrel of 26 inches. (26 1/4 to be safe) It must be smooth bore too. This is not my opinion, this is fact and I will prove this in a couple of days , give or take a week or two. Now if you have a 14 1/2 inch barrel and a standard pistol grip you will be under the mandated 26 inch rule. I also have the answer for this. |
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Posted: 10/20/2013 4:15:15 PM EDT
[#33]
That is an AOW if built on a virgin receiver.
26 USC 5845(e) Any other weapon The term “any other weapon” means any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire. Such term shall not include a pistol or a revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition. That can be transferred to an individual (State dependent) on a Form 4 from an 02 FFL for $5 as an AOW. IF you build it on a virgin receiver as an AOW, you need to pay $200 and put it on a Form 1. |
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Posted: 10/20/2013 4:15:15 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Negative. Shotgun is legal. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I think any smooth bore bbl has to have a length of 18", pistol grip or not. Negative. Shotgun is legal. Doesn't it need a stamp is the bbl is under 18"? |
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Posted: 10/20/2013 4:15:17 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That is a AOW manufacturer claims no, I don't buy it either but I have never read up on this stuff as it would be illegal in NY anyway
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Posted: 10/20/2013 4:15:19 PM EDT
[#36]
Who cares.
The real question is: Is SHE legal?
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Posted: 10/20/2013 4:15:19 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryYep, this. Forgot about the OAL exempting it from AOW status. Still, would probably draw questions if ever stopped by not-so-friendly LEOs and may not be legal under state laws. |
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Posted: 10/20/2013 4:15:24 PM EDT
[#38]
Its not a "shotgun."
if its over 26" its not an AOW either. Its just a "firearm" its even california legal IIRC. |
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Posted: 10/20/2013 4:15:43 PM EDT
[#39]
yes sir captain obvious sir
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Posted: 10/20/2013 4:15:48 PM EDT
[#40]
To be legal it has to be a "firearm" meaning it isnt a shotgun or pistol or rifle per ATF. 18 inch rule applies to shotgun only.........that gun is a firearm by definition..
as long as overall length is 26.1 inches or more it is kosher and there is an ATF letter floating around specifically stating this fact. |
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Posted: 10/20/2013 4:15:58 PM EDT
[#41]
AOW
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Posted: 10/20/2013 4:16:17 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If the barrel is rifled, it's a handgun, if it is unrifled, and under 18", it must be registered as an AOW, ( any other weapon) under the NFA. unless its 26" long. |
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Posted: 10/20/2013 4:17:28 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuote Historymanufacturer claims no, I don't buy it either but I have never read up on this stuff as it would be illegal in NY anyway Eta: I think maybe not. |
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Posted: 10/20/2013 4:17:28 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If it's a smoothbore, it would likely be considered a "smoothbore pistol" and hence an AOW. If the barrel were longer, it would likely fall into the amorphous title I category of "it's a normal firearm but not a rifle, shotgun, or pistol". If it's rifled... it might just be considered a pistol and be gtg. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I think any smooth bore bbl has to have a length of 18", pistol grip or not. If it's a smoothbore, it would likely be considered a "smoothbore pistol" and hence an AOW. If the barrel were longer, it would likely fall into the amorphous title I category of "it's a normal firearm but not a rifle, shotgun, or pistol". If it's rifled... it might just be considered a pistol and be gtg. Its not a pistol because it is not designed or intended to be fired with one hand. |
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Posted: 10/20/2013 4:19:44 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Her shirt reads "Senior 04", so yes, legal! That's the same shirt my senior class had in 2004. I don't recognize her though .... |
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Posted: 10/20/2013 4:19:58 PM EDT
[#46]
Its not a pistol because it is not designed or intended to be fired with one hand. This x1000 |
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Posted: 10/20/2013 4:19:58 PM EDT
[#47]
congratulations, you guys have completely confused me
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Posted: 10/20/2013 4:20:01 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe, if the overall length is over 26" but the barrel is less than 18" AND it has never had a stock, someone effectively tricked the ATF in to admitting that such a gun is a "firearm" not a pistol/handgun or a rifle/shotgun. I sure as hell wouldn't want to be the test case, but people are taking advantage of the ATFs admittion. Yep. becomming pretty common actually. especially now that pistol grip 870's are readily available and not limited to the Mossberg 500 PG as the starting point. |
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Posted: 10/20/2013 4:20:14 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That is a AOW Why? |
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Posted: 10/20/2013 4:20:25 PM EDT
[#50]
If it never had a stock.
If it's over 26". If it's not concealed. If it's smooth bore. It might be legal. Depends on you local laws. |
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