I'm not saying that they have a better or even an equal tank, but I am saying that they have definitely reduced the gap.

For the first time the T-90 is going to feature thermal sights as standard.  That alone is a major improvement.  Earlier vehicles with active IR systems were blind in poor weather, blinded by smoke, had crappy vision at night unless they turned on their IR searchlights, and turned into huge targets to anybody with their own IR or thermal gear if they turned on the IR illuminators.  The ammunition they're shooting is getter better too, and so is their fire control.

Again, I'm not saying that the systems you'll find on a T-90 are equal to the systems that you'll find in an M1A2 SEP, or even an upgraded M1A1, just that they're getting better.  The T-90 is certainly a significant step up from the T-72A in much the same way that the M60A3 TTS would have to be considered a significant step up from an M60 or M60A1.

Now you're right about their lack of survivability.  They still use the 'carousel of death' autoloader and IIRC they still just throw spare ammunition all over the place, so if you poke a hole in one I bet it's still going to blow the hell up.

IMHO it's time to roll out the next generation of the M1 just to be sure that we're still ahead of them by miles, rather than just leaps and bounds.

The T-90MS looks pretty impressive for a Russian tank at least.  I don't know much about them though and I doubt the Russians have many of them.

I got halfway into the drivers seat of one once.  Never even got close to fitting in the turret.

Then again i'm 6'2" and am pretty cramped in an Abrams too.

They don't. The CV-90120 is close to 35t.

LOL I am too, had to strip down.   My Co had to help me get out after I wedged myself in trying to see if we could start it.



 

"B" Co. 4th Tank Bn made a captured T-72 available to us to drive and otherwise crawl around on when we were back at Camp 15, Saudi Arabia after our retrograde back south from Kuwait.  Some of the Marines in my company that drove the tank had positive things to say about the ease of it all.  I don't remember if anyone mentioned the drivers station being cramped or not.

Here it is, probably early April of 1991.  This tank (or one like it) is currently sitting in front of the "B" Co. reserve center in Yakima WA.  Incidentally, "B" Co. had more tank and AFV kills (including one Land Rover full of Iraqis trying to escape the battlefield, lit up by a HEAT round from the rear) than any tank company in the 2nd MarDiv, and perhaps even the USMC.  I don't think 2nd Tank Bn, 2nd MarDiv fired a single main gun round during the ground war.



I'm drinking some of that delicious Al Wadi bottled water, and SSgt Lovato is trying to squeeze into the TCs seat.  He's a big man, so I don't remember him getting very far in his attempt to do so.



Some more captured Iraqi tanks and a BMP at Camp 15 awaiting transit back to CONUS.



We spent a lot of time crawling in and around them.  We wanted to know what the big fuss was all about.  Here's SSgt Collins. in what appears to be a T-62.



More T-72 back at Camp 15.



T-72 with mine plow.



LRF in the TCs station of a T-72.  This pic was taken on the battlefield in Kuwait.



More PME.



Just for shits and grins, the business end of a BMP1's 73mm Grom smoothbore cannon.  IIRC, it fires a modified RPG round via autoloader.



Ok, fuck it-here's a T-62 while I've got the Photobucket account up.



BMP1.  Note the narrow tracks, fuel cells in the rear doors, and firing ports for the AK.  BMPs are really cramped-a bloody awful AFV to be inside of.



Chinese APC south of Kuwait City.



And another close by.



T-55 abandoned on the battlefield in east of Kuwait City.



SSgt Collins. and Gunny Simmons posing next to a T-55 that took a hit from a TOW missile on the right side of the hull-the remains of which were still laying on the desert floor (probably fired from a Cobra).  The tank experienced  "catastrophic turret / hull separation" from the secondary explosion when the fuel and ammo lit up.  The turret assembly came down on the barrel's muzzle, then the turret settled back down on the hull all askew.  The barrel was visibly bent.  I've seen other Iraqi tanks with the turret upside down, resting on the hull after separating when they took a hit.  No bueno.

 

Upgraded T-55 type tank-possibly Chinese-next to one that isn't.  Note how the other T-55 looks like it's sitting on a collapsed suspension.  There were U.S. submunitions laying about all over the place where this pic was taken.



T-62 in it's battle position in Kuwait, awaiting our attack.  They were probably destroyed before they could fire a single shot.



Destroyed something-probably an SP122 from the looks of the remains of the turret laying nearby.  Yay for thin armor.



SP122 self-propelled 122mm gun.  Pic was taken on the highway south of Kuwait City.



Kuwaiti M113.  Whether this was abandoned by them in August of 1990, or captured by the Iraqi Army afterwards and pressed into use is unknown to me.



Anyway, whenever the subject of Soviet / Russian armor comes up, I'm always reminded that not all of us are fortunate enough to be born in a country that values the lives of those expected to fight on behalf of the people that send us to war.

I would really love a t55...especially the upgraded Iraqi model.

Russian armor is available-to include T-72s.  Lots of 'em in the UK.  

Personally, I'd buy every surplus Chieftain I could if I had the flow.  I'd have my own platoon at a minimum-preferably a company-complete with tank ramp and maintenance bays.  I'd feel at home.  

Every time I'm outside somewhere and get a whiff of Diesel, my brain automatically wonders back to the tank ramp.

Us army blitzkrieg. Sounds good to me,

Oh, I know! It should also be equipped with, like, helmets the crew will wear that will allow them to see through the hull where the enemies are. We could do this with a suite of sensors mounted on the outside of the tank. And we could make like different versions for each service, like, the Marines could have a version that could fly and take off vertically. It should also be undetectable by radar! Fuck yeah!

I wish they would bring home the M60 and sell it as surplus

He would know better than most, he owns a BRDM-2.

I personally always felt the Abrams was very comfortable. I fit perfectly into the TCs position, and the loaders hole was comfy too. I'm also a little dude at 5'6.

Sorry bro, 60s went into the ocean.



As did some Sheridans

Pretty sure we could scrounge a few thousand in africa

Modified SPG-9 rounds.  SPG-9 is similar to the Carl Gustav - kind of a recoiless rifle.



Tank in back may have been hiding behind the dead tank in front, for obscuration and to take advantage of it as "extra armor" if the hiding didn't work ...

My dream AFV would be an M8 Greyhound with the turret/gun/sighting tech of a Scorpion.

Just the thing to patrol the perimeter of your gated community.  

This problem already had a solution... In the 80's.
Sgt. Slaughter's Triple T Tank!

They took back an M60A3 that was on display in front of either the Legion or VFW post here and dumped that in the ocean too. I guess FedGov thinks artificial reefs are more important than preserving history.

FUCK FEDGOV!  I say shut it down indefinitely, they'll screw things up slower that way!

The SPG-9 is not like a Carl-Gustav, comparing the two would be like comparing an M2 .50 and a Bren gun.  The Carl G is man portable and rifled.  The SPG-9 is tripod mounted, more similar to an M40 or B10.  

The 73mm gun on a BMP-1 fires PG-9's, PG-15's, and OG-9's.

The PG-9 and PG-15's are rockets, not recoilless rifle rounds.  They are based off of the RPG system as USMC Tanker said.

They are similar to a PG-7, except they use a different expelling charge where the PG-7 has a tube filled with nitrocellulose strips the PG-9 has a booster cup affixed to the rear.


I know the actual details are hard for you to see.




Don't worry about struggling to answer questions outside of your knowledge,  because me and USMC Tanker seem to have a much better view than you.

There's a company worth of M60A3s (minus two) that were buried in the desert somewhere in the 2nd MarDiv's AO in Saudi Arabia close to the KSA / Kuwait international border.  They're still there as far as I know.  They were offered to 8th Tank Battalion's maintenance officer when the NYANG NETT'd to M1s.  I doubt they were buried with the TTS installed, but mechanically, I'd wager they're restoreable.  

Boys....I feel like camping in the kuwait desert.

That's an excellent pic of the older BMP1 with it's AT-3 Sagger (9K11 Malyutka) ATGM launcher rail mounted above the 73mm Grom smoothbore cannon.

That was a deadly threat to our MBTs at one time, and caused considerable concern in the armor community.  Not entirely ineffective, either.  To a degree, it gave a lightweight, thinly armored APC the theoretical ability to destroy MBTs with a HEAT warhead that was effective enough to punch through the relatively thin armor of our M48s and M60s.  Back when we had M60A1s, we used to practice "Saggar drills".

We'd probably get thrown in jail once we set foot back on U.S. soil.  

I've always wanted an M114 with an M60 GPMG mounted on top.

Did some more digging on your counter-points, which are formidable.  I found this:http://phys.org/news174290535.html

 

This subject reminds me... I took this picture in 2005. None of us knew exactly what it used to be....






USMCTanker?





 

I'm 5'11", 215-220 lbs, and never had a problem with being in any of the stations on the M60 or Abrams MBTs.  Our tanks are luxurious compared to Soveit-era designs.

We wore both CVC and regular body armor in DS, and I don't remember it being a problem in terms of bulk while inside the tank, but then again, I probably only weighed 165 lbs at the time.

Looks like it might be the PTS-2 amphibious cargo vehicle.  Never seen one before you posted this pic.  

That's exactly what it is. They are interesting vehicles.

That's the tracked vehicle that fadedsun needs to buy.  After spending his entire life's savings to restore it (while living in a cardboard box, and eating at the local soup kitchen at the homeless shelter), he could really rake in the girls at South Padre Island during Spring Break.  

"Hey girls, want to take a spin in my PTS-2 tracked amphibious vehicle?"  Chicks dig that shit.  

Fadedsun, are you tracking?  

I don't know how the t series tanks are but the brdm is downright cramped for a 5-11 170 pound guy like me.

T-55s and T-62s aren't that bad, 72's are fucking abysmal though. Never been in a 64 but it's smaller than a 72 so I assume it too, sucks.

That was post 22222.

See, even the spirits of Arfcom are telling you to buy a PTS-2.  

It's your destiny.  

You're welcome!

Looking at some of the pictures of one in tact. It almost looks like a slightly modified Higgins boat with tracks.

Just a WP version of a LARC with tracks.

What's this we shit?  You are on like a thousand Airforce no fly lists.

That has got to be a maintenance hog. LARCs were bad enough with wheels.

I find that hard to believe. An NG unit just doesn't "offer" a dozen functional tanks to the USMC. There's no way that'd be possible. You just can't write those off of the books. They'd have to go back to Anniston for a total strip down, and when I say strip I mean that the interior is stripped, they go so far to remove any POL that they actually remove the hubs of the roadwheels and remove the grease. If these truly were buried, they've been unburied by now and they're be several people who are no longer collecting Govt. paychecks. Look at the great lengths Agent Wu goes to track down $600 lasers here on ARFCOM, they'd have the entire IG tracking down a dozen buried tanks.

I somewhat regularly watch $1 million-plus armored vehicles get "written off the books" in theater all the time when they are not MTOE items and too expensive to ship back.  Well, this is after those same vehicles are "offered" to anybody and everybody through DRMO.

Nothing off the shelf is going to be survivable, and designing something survivable that is C-130 transportable isn't going to be a development program that is going to get funded. The M8 might be close but it would have to be redesigned with a V hull which would mean nearly starting from scratch.

We need foldable, semi-anthropomorphic battle bots with the ability to carry significant firepower. Collapse them in the C-130, and even mini versions in the Chinook, and deploy them with other JRDF assets wherever you want. Then ignore the roads for infiltration routes, and change the face of warfare.

Instead of wasting money on F-series fighters, develop C-series LO platforms that can covertly infiltrate a Brigade Task Force with battleoids, and stomp mudholes in your enemy's backyard without him knowing what happened.

That is overmatch. Tracks need to go away.

Tanks & other armored vehicles don't get DRMO'ed. Not unless they are as 10 pound pieces of paperweight. I don't think you'll find any of those with an "A" DEMIL code.

No, just no. What we need to do is realize that not every asset we have needs to be the perfect COIN asset. We have other missions and redesigning everything to operate in COIN environments is the wrong answer. It does not need a V hull, if your units are operating against an insurgent threat with IEDs then you will have had time to take the MRAPs out of storage.

beat your face leg!

Instantly deployable forced entry counter insurgency forces.


Seems legit.

Thank you for posting those pics USMCtanker. Going to start working on a diorama this winter of a bradley my brother-in-law drove when he was over there. Was thinking of something like the bradley driving past a wreck like one of those.

Probably a stupid question, but why not take the crew out, install an auto loader, and make the thing remote controlled? A guy with a laptop could drive it from the rear and being as there is no troops to protect in it the armor could be thinner.

yep, out of your lane! auto-loader can pull pmcs or security?



stick to college football... on second thought thats also out of your lane!