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Posted: 9/12/2013 10:51:41 AM EDT
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/boeing-delivers-last-c-17-us-air-force
can't believe I beat KA3B to this , I searched. 
SNIP LOS ANGELES (AP) — Boeing has delivered the final C-17 produced for the U.S. Air Force, more than two decades after the mammoth and versatile transport plane was rolled out as the Cold War wound down. Military officials took delivery of the C-17 Globemaster III — the 223rd sold to the Air Force — during a ceremony Thursday attended by hundreds of workers at Boeing's Long Beach, Calif., assembly plant. "It was a long run with the U.S. military, and it was a good run," said engineer Bob Grech, who joined the project 19 years ago. The massive, four-engine C-17 made its first flight in 1991, and military deliveries began about two years later. The plane is used to airlift tanks, supplies and troops as well as perform medical evacuations. It quickly became a war and disaster workhorse, prized for its ability to operate from basic airstrips and cover intercontinental distances with a full load without refueling. With a payload of 160,000 pounds, it is designed to airdrop 102 paratroopers and their equipment. |
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Posted: 9/12/2013 10:53:01 AM EDT
[#1]
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Posted: 9/12/2013 10:54:22 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Looks like they are keeping the line open to sell to foreign allies. 
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Posted: 9/12/2013 10:55:20 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Looks like they are keeping the line open to sell to foreign allies. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Looks like they are keeping the line open to sell to foreign allies. I don't want our "allies", and these days I use that term loosely, to get them. I want us to get more of them. |
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Posted: 9/12/2013 10:56:56 AM EDT
[#4]
Who wants to bet they destroy the tooling and then 30 years later we get to spend 10 times as much as then entire run cost start to finish including R&D to get an inferior replacement product with limited production that nobody else wants?
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Posted: 9/12/2013 10:59:34 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't want our "allies", and these days I use that term loosely, to get them. I want us to get more of them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Looks like they are keeping the line open to sell to foreign allies. I don't want our "allies", and these days I use that term loosely, to get them. I want us to get more of them. The USAF assures us they have enough airlift to support any operational requirement. And if they can't, well, there will always be Russian aircraft to rent. Always. |
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Posted: 9/12/2013 11:07:14 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The USAF assures us they have enough airlift to support any operational requirement. And if they can't, well, there will always be Russian aircraft to rent. Always. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Looks like they are keeping the line open to sell to foreign allies. I don't want our "allies", and these days I use that term loosely, to get them. I want us to get more of them. The USAF assures us they have enough airlift to support any operational requirement. And if they can't, well, there will always be Russian aircraft to rent. Always. the operational requirement will be edited to the available airlift. convenient how that works. How many C17s can you park on the ramp at hickam for mechanical malfunctions anyway? |
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Posted: 9/12/2013 11:11:22 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
the operational requirement will be edited to the available airlift. convenient how that works. How many C17s can you park on the ramp at hickam for mechanical malfunctions anyway? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Looks like they are keeping the line open to sell to foreign allies. I don't want our "allies", and these days I use that term loosely, to get them. I want us to get more of them. The USAF assures us they have enough airlift to support any operational requirement. And if they can't, well, there will always be Russian aircraft to rent. Always. the operational requirement will be edited to the available airlift. convenient how that works. How many C17s can you park on the ramp at hickam for mechanical malfunctions anyway? It's almost never the C-17s that litter up the AMC ramp here. The C-5s and KC-10s on the other hand...  Now that most crews are staying at on base lodging (in the Navy lodge) instead of the Outrigger Reef, I would imagine the break rate has gone down.
I'm absolutely thrilled that we got as many as we did. Congress kept buying them for us even after our (at the time, fighter pilot) CSAF said we didn't need any more. The original airlift capabilities study said we needed 220 of them to replace the C-141, and that's what we finally got. It'll probably be the last manned airlifter we ever buy.
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Posted: 9/12/2013 11:13:52 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Who wants to bet they destroy the tooling and then 30 years later we get to spend 10 times as much as then entire run cost start to finish including R&D to get an inferior replacement product with limited production that nobody else wants the President then cancels? Like the Orion heavy lift booster rocket ?
ETA: A number of years back I was having some physical rehab work for some back surgery. In conversation with the fellow who was my physical therapist, told him I worked at the McDonnell Douglas plant doing IT for some of the production aircraft. He laughed and said his wife, a petite and very pretty woman, is an engineer and software designer for the C-17 program. When the Air Force had the initial rollout of the C-17, they did a multi-site visit to give meet & greet and a free ride to some of the key machinists and support staff on the program. At the stop in St Louis, his wife worked her way to the front of greeting line to talk to the captain and asked him about the cargo air drop capability, "Well? How's it work?" The pilot donned his most charming, "Well, little lady, you see what we do is open the back end of the plane and push out a load on a pallet with a parachute..." She broke in laughing, "No no no, I helped design the autopilot and flight control software that monitors the shifting center of gravity and abrubt changes of weight of the aircraft to keep it in straight and level flight. What I meant was, how's it working?" 
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Posted: 9/12/2013 1:00:46 PM EDT
[#9]
Crews have to stay on base? ouch
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Posted: 9/12/2013 1:03:39 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Who wants to bet they destroy the tooling and then 30 years later we get to spend 10 times as much as then entire run cost start to finish including R&D to get an inferior replacement product with limited production that nobody else wants? Oh you mean like they did with the A10 and the Eff Turdy Five? |
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Posted: 9/12/2013 1:34:23 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Crews have to stay on base? ouch With only partial per diem. Sequestration, you know.
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Posted: 9/12/2013 1:43:50 PM EDT
[#12]
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Posted: 9/12/2013 1:53:07 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh you mean like they did with the A10 and the Eff Turdy Five? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Who wants to bet they destroy the tooling and then 30 years later we get to spend 10 times as much as then entire run cost start to finish including R&D to get an inferior replacement product with limited production that nobody else wants? Oh you mean like they did with the A10 and the Eff Turdy Five? Most of that is worn out junk at the end of planned production, maybe well before that. The real trick to reopening a production line is sorting out the paperwork first, then either finding a supplier to produce some gadget that has been out of production for decades or redesign the airplane for the gadgets that are available, but if we're going to do that then we might as well improve the airplane with new gadgets and lots more of them, and while we're at it we'll do a redesign of the airframe to fix old service life problems and make it cheaper to assemble (whilst introducing new service life issues), and then none of that will fit in the old jigs and fixtures, plus some hero doesn't like a linear line so an experimental but obviously excellent assembly method has to be tried out and then scrapped because the hero doesn't understand man loading, and now the changes in the airplane have accumulated so that new wind tunnel tests are required, and new software is always required because the old code blew or it was written for some God awful 1 kbit serial buss, the old sandwich construction control surfaces sucked due to corrosion so we have to go through yet another bonded aluminum design study to prove for the thousandth time than the weight is too high and the fatigue life suffers and big surprise, they are going to cost 4 times more than the vendor's original ROM estimate so new sandwich assemblies are designed to fix at least some of the old problems, and the old motors sucked and a new engine is needed to haul all the new junk around but it uses more fuel so new volume has to be found for more gas in the airframe, the old ejection seat is no longer available and doesn't meet current needs anyway, so the entire crew station has to be redesigned but that's okay because that was required for the new HOTAS, HUD, 'puter screens, and that also means the new seat has to be qualified with a couple of years of sled testing, and ... and so on. |
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Posted: 9/12/2013 1:54:54 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
"It was a long run with the U.S. military, and it was a good run," said engineer Bob Grech, who joined the project 19 years ago. "was" a good run? They may not be building any new ones, but somehow I don't think the C-17 is going away any time soon. |
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Posted: 9/12/2013 1:56:28 PM EDT
[#15]
I remember being one of the very first guys to jump out of one for the abn test board at Bragg. God I'm getting old
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Posted: 9/12/2013 1:58:19 PM EDT
[#16]
Ex of mine just got hired in Long Beach as an engineer on the 17. They'll be working on them for her working lifetime at least.
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Posted: 9/12/2013 1:58:26 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I remember being one of the very first guys to jump out of one for the abn test board at Bragg. God I'm getting old Ramp or side door? The C-17 will join the DC-3 and C-130 as one of the all time great airplanes shoulder to shoulder at the very top of the heap. |
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Posted: 9/12/2013 1:58:49 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't want our "allies", and these days I use that term loosely, to get them. I want us to get more of them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Looks like they are keeping the line open to sell to foreign allies. I don't want our "allies", and these days I use that term loosely, to get them. I want us to get more of them. I don't want to pay for it. I don't think we need it. The war can wait until the ships get there. |
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Posted: 9/12/2013 2:10:46 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ramp or side door? The C-17 will join the DC-3 and C-130 as one of the all time great airplanes shoulder to shoulder at the very top of the heap. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I remember being one of the very first guys to jump out of one for the abn test board at Bragg. God I'm getting old Ramp or side door? The C-17 will join the DC-3 and C-130 as one of the all time great airplanes shoulder to shoulder at the very top of the heap. I agree. I'd add the 737 and 747 to that list as well. |
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Posted: 9/12/2013 2:12:28 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I remember being one of the very first guys to jump out of one for the abn test board at Bragg. God I'm getting old I remember rigging 250 pound dummies with parachutes to study the issue of jumpers smacking under the bird when I was at the ACE board. |
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Posted: 9/12/2013 2:15:03 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This for sure. |
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Posted: 9/12/2013 2:15:31 PM EDT
[#22]
I remember 25+ years ago custom building computers for the Automatic Testing Equipment, who knows what would be involved in restarting it again.
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Posted: 9/12/2013 2:23:34 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ramp or side door?i understand ramp exts weren't allowed. I did 5 jumps and they all were smooth as glass. The wind break on those things were so good you could practically stand on the platform and not get swept away, no more 36 up and 36 out just walk out and wait. The C-17 will join the DC-3 and C-130 as one of the all time great airplanes shoulder to shoulder at the very top of the heap. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I remember being one of the very first guys to jump out of one for the abn test board at Bragg. God I'm getting old Ramp or side door?i understand ramp exts weren't allowed. I did 5 jumps and they all were smooth as glass. The wind break on those things were so good you could practically stand on the platform and not get swept away, no more 36 up and 36 out just walk out and wait. The C-17 will join the DC-3 and C-130 as one of the all time great airplanes shoulder to shoulder at the very top of the heap. Side, ramp jumps from what I understand we're a no go |
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Posted: 9/12/2013 2:24:11 PM EDT
[#24]
Opps
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Posted: 9/12/2013 4:00:21 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's almost never the C-17s that litter up the AMC ramp here. The C-5s and KC-10s on the other hand... Now that most crews are staying at on base lodging (in the Navy lodge) instead of the Outrigger Reef, I would imagine the break rate has gone down. I'm absolutely thrilled that we got as many as we did. Congress kept buying them for us even after our (at the time, fighter pilot) CSAF said we didn't need any more. The original airlift capabilities study said we needed 220 of them to replace the C-141, and that's what we finally got. It'll probably be the last manned airlifter we ever buy. So this was a one for one swap with the C-141's then? If only we can get them to do that with the KC-46/KC-135. -K |
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Posted: 9/12/2013 4:10:34 PM EDT
[#26]
I was stationed at Altus when we got our first C-17 in 1994, had a big ceremony for the arrival, the AMC/CC was at the controls (supposedly). I was 97th SUPS working in MICAP, we had to do a lot of extra effort for those with the visibility everything of being a new jet.
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Posted: 9/12/2013 4:15:02 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
the operational requirement will be edited to the available airlift. convenient how that works. How many C17s can you park on the ramp at hickam for mechanical malfunctions anyway? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Looks like they are keeping the line open to sell to foreign allies. I don't want our "allies", and these days I use that term loosely, to get them. I want us to get more of them. The USAF assures us they have enough airlift to support any operational requirement. And if they can't, well, there will always be Russian aircraft to rent. Always. the operational requirement will be edited to the available airlift. convenient how that works. How many C17s can you park on the ramp at hickam for mechanical malfunctions anyway? Overflow parking is at K-Bay don't sweat it |
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Posted: 9/12/2013 4:36:22 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Overflow parking is at K-Bay don't sweat it And have To drive h3 to Waikiki! War is hell |
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