GEORGIA COURT UPHOLDS ENCOUNTER RELATED TO TRAFFIC AS CONSENSUAL - Daniels v. State

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - GEORGIA COURT UPHOLDS ENCOUNTER RELATED TO TRAFFIC AS CONSENSUAL - Daniels v. State (Page 1 of 3)

Posted: 9/12/2013 7:49:26 AM EDT

On May 23, 2013, the Court of Appeals of Georgia decided Daniels v. State [i] , which serves as an excellent review of the law as it pertains to the levels of officer / citizen encounters. The facts of Daniels are as follows:

[O]fficers were conducting a roadblock at about 10:30 p.m. They observed a red Pontiac approach within 75 yards of the roadblock before suddenly turning off of the road and into the parking lot of a closed motel. Believing the driver's sudden turn into the parking lot to be suspicious, an officer drove to the parking lot to investigate. As he entered the parking lot, the officer observed Daniels get out of the vehicle from the driver's side door and walk toward the door of the motel. The officer approached Daniels and asked what he was doing. Daniels responded that "he had come to get a room." The officer told Daniels that the "motel had been shut down for some time." He noticed that Daniels "appeared nervous," had glassy, bloodshot eyes, and had a "very strong" odor of alcohol about him.

A second officer arrived on the scene, made the same observations of Daniels as the first officer, and had Daniels perform a breath test which registered positive for the presence of alcohol. Daniels was arrested for DUI and for driving with a suspended license. He consented to a state-administered breath test which revealed a blood-alcohol level of 0.196. During his encounter with the officers, Daniels did not deny that he was driving the vehicle and at no time claimed that his former girlfriend, who was riding in the front passenger seat, was driving. [ii]

View Quote

More at the link:

http://www.llrmi.com/articles/legal_update/2013_daniels_v_state.shtml

Posted: 9/12/2013 8:00:21 AM EDT

[#1]

"Am I being detained?"

Posted: 9/12/2013 8:02:07 AM EDT

[#2]

Quote History

Quoted:
"Am I being detained?"

View Quote

Yes.

Posted: 9/12/2013 8:02:57 AM EDT

[#3]

Now pick up that can.

Posted: 9/12/2013 8:03:20 AM EDT

[#4]

Quote History

Quoted:

Yes.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
"Am I being detained?"

Yes.

"Am I being detained?"

Posted: 9/12/2013 8:05:30 AM EDT

[#5]

What is so funny is they repeatedly ask that and never follow it up with the right things.

If you aren't being detained..."C-ya, I'm out of here".

If you are being detained..."arrest me. I need to talk to my lawyer. "

Other than that, saying "Am I being detained" is stupid as fuck.

Posted: 9/12/2013 8:10:50 AM EDT

[#6]

Quote History

Quoted:

What is so funny is they repeatedly ask that and never follow it up with the right things.

If you aren't being detained..."C-ya, I'm out of here".

If you are being detained..."arrest me. I need to talk to my lawyer. "

Other than that, saying "Am I being detained" is stupid as fuck.

View Quote

That's asking the drunk dude to remember two or three things. Not fair at all.

Posted: 9/12/2013 8:13:37 AM EDT

[#7]

Quote History

Quoted:

That's asking the drunk dude to remember two or three things. Not fair at all.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
What is so funny is they repeatedly ask that and never follow it up with the right things.

If you aren't being detained..."C-ya, I'm out of here".

If you are being detained..."arrest me. I need to talk to my lawyer. "

Other than that, saying "Am I being detained" is stupid as fuck.

That's asking the drunk dude to remember two or three things. Not fair at all.

And remember in order what comes first.

Totally not fair.

Posted: 9/12/2013 8:15:18 AM EDT

[#8]

Checkpoints are stupid and unconstitutional. Shame on the SCOTUS for allowing them.

Posted: 9/12/2013 8:16:30 AM EDT

[#9]

Quote History

Quoted:
Checkpoints are stupid and unconstitutional. Shame on the SCOTUS for allowing them.

View Quote

Do you even precipice Bro?

Posted: 9/12/2013 8:18:07 AM EDT

[#10]

Quote History

Quoted:
Checkpoints are stupid and unconstitutional. Shame on the SCOTUS for allowing them.

View Quote

no shit.

Posted: 9/12/2013 8:36:06 AM EDT

[#11]

Quote History

Quoted:

Do you even precipice Bro?

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Checkpoints are stupid and unconstitutional. Shame on the SCOTUS for allowing them.

Do you even precipice Bro?

Posted: 9/12/2013 8:42:16 AM EDT

[#12]

Posted: 9/12/2013 8:48:05 AM EDT

[#13]

Posted: 9/12/2013 8:53:01 AM EDT

[#14]

Posted: 9/12/2013 9:06:31 AM EDT

[#15]

Quote History

Quoted:
Checkpoints are stupid and unconstitutional. Shame on the SCOTUS for allowing them.

View Quote

Posted: 9/12/2013 9:09:24 AM EDT

[#16]

Quote History

Quoted:
http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=50310

View Quote

Posted: 9/12/2013 9:21:51 AM EDT

[#17]

In a(n) (doomed) attempt to push the derail back on the tracks (and the issue of checkpoints ignored since it is not germane to the ruling)...

After reading the article, I don't have an issue with the ruling.

If an officers sees a driver pull in to a parking lot, exit the vehicle and begin staggering away, he is just as likely to investigate, no?

Posted: 9/12/2013 9:22:55 AM EDT

[#18]

I agree with you completely NC_ Preacher.

Posted: 9/12/2013 9:54:50 AM EDT

[#19]

Quote History

Quoted:
In a(n) (doomed) attempt to push the derail back on the tracks (and the issue of checkpoints ignored since it is not germane to the ruling)...

After reading the article, I don't have an issue with the ruling.

If an officers sees a driver pull in to a parking lot, exit the vehicle and begin staggering away, he is just as likely to investigate, no?

View Quote

Had a chippie stop and check on my while I was puking my guts out off the 5. Head cold + coastal wind + motorcycle gave me a nasty case of the dizzies. Hung out with me to make sure I didn't need a ride. I had no issue with his "investigation"...but then I don't drink and drive.

Posted: 9/12/2013 10:00:40 AM EDT

[#20]

Yep, drunk dude got out of the car he was seen driving and got a DUI.

Posted: 9/12/2013 10:06:16 AM EDT

[#21]

Quote History

Quoted:
Yep, drunk dude got out of the car he was seen driving and got a DUI.

View Quote

Cop had no reason to go talk to him except he "felt" it was "suspicious." That said, the DUI guy is an idiot.

What would the cops have done if the guy had pulled into the motel then right back out and went the opposite way? Is it still "legal" to pull them over for "avoiding a checkpoint?"

Posted: 9/12/2013 10:07:59 AM EDT

[#22]

Quote History

Quoted:

Cop had no reason to go talk to him except he "felt" it was "suspicious." That said, the DUI guy is an idiot.

What would the cops have done if the guy had pulled into the motel then right back out and went the opposite way? Is it still "legal" to pull them over for "avoiding a checkpoint?"

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Yep, drunk dude got out of the car he was seen driving and got a DUI.

Cop had no reason to go talk to him except he "felt" it was "suspicious." That said, the DUI guy is an idiot.

What would the cops have done if the guy had pulled into the motel then right back out and went the opposite way? Is it still "legal" to pull them over for "avoiding a checkpoint?"

What exactly is wrong with talking with someone a police officer feels is suspicious?

Posted: 9/12/2013 10:08:35 AM EDT

[#23]

Shouldn't have created joinder.

Posted: 9/12/2013 10:11:49 AM EDT

[#24]

Quote History

Quoted:

Cop had no reason to go talk to him except he "felt" it was "suspicious." That said, the DUI guy is an idiot.

What would the cops have done if the guy had pulled into the motel then right back out and went the opposite way? Is it still "legal" to pull them over for "avoiding a checkpoint?"

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Yep, drunk dude got out of the car he was seen driving and got a DUI.

Cop had no reason to go talk to him except he "felt" it was "suspicious." That said, the DUI guy is an idiot.

What would the cops have done if the guy had pulled into the motel then right back out and went the opposite way? Is it still "legal" to pull them over for "avoiding a checkpoint?"

Isn't that the cop's job?

Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile

Posted: 9/12/2013 10:18:31 AM EDT

[#25]

Quote History

Quoted:

Shouldn't have created joinder.

View Quote

Do you willfully revoke covenants not made in peace?

Posted: 9/12/2013 10:21:30 AM EDT

[#26]

Quote History

Quoted:

Cop had no reason to go talk to him except he "felt" it was "suspicious." That said, the DUI guy is an idiot.

What would the cops have done if the guy had pulled into the motel then right back out and went the opposite way? Is it still "legal" to pull them over for "avoiding a checkpoint?"

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Yep, drunk dude got out of the car he was seen driving and got a DUI.

Cop had no reason to go talk to him except he "felt" it was "suspicious." That said, the DUI guy is an idiot.

What would the cops have done if the guy had pulled into the motel then right back out and went the opposite way? Is it still "legal" to pull them over for "avoiding a checkpoint?"

I don't agree with checkpoints personally, however someone poking around a closed business would arouse my suspicions. It wouldn't be unlawful for you to go talk to the guy, it therefore is not unlawful for an officer to go talk to the guy.

If the guy had just turned around and driven away without violating any laws and they stopped him I would say they lacked cause for the stop, but that is not the choice he made.

Posted: 9/12/2013 10:27:32 AM EDT

[#27]

yup!

Posted: 9/12/2013 10:28:07 AM EDT

[#28]

Quote History

Quoted:

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Checkpoints are stupid and unconstitutional. Shame on the SCOTUS for allowing them.

Posted: 9/12/2013 10:29:59 AM EDT

[#29]

Quote History

Quoted:

What exactly is wrong with talking with someone a police officer feels is suspicious?

View Quote

No kidding, what's next- police can't look at things more than 10 feet away?

Posted: 9/12/2013 10:39:06 AM EDT

[#30]

Quote History

Quoted:

What exactly is wrong with talking with someone a police officer feels is suspicious?

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Yep, drunk dude got out of the car he was seen driving and got a DUI.

Cop had no reason to go talk to him except he "felt" it was "suspicious." That said, the DUI guy is an idiot.

What would the cops have done if the guy had pulled into the motel then right back out and went the opposite way? Is it still "legal" to pull them over for "avoiding a checkpoint?"

What exactly is wrong with talking with someone a police officer feels is suspicious?

Nothing. I just find it odd that someone pulls off the road and the officer automatically finds it suspicious. That's why I put that.

Posted: 9/12/2013 10:40:46 AM EDT

[#31]

Quote History

Quoted:

I don't agree with checkpoints personally, however someone poking around a closed business would arouse my suspicions. It wouldn't be unlawful for you to go talk to the guy, it therefore is not unlawful for an officer to go talk to the guy.

If the guy had just turned around and driven away without violating any laws and they stopped him I would say they lacked cause for the stop, but that is not the choice he made.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Yep, drunk dude got out of the car he was seen driving and got a DUI.

Cop had no reason to go talk to him except he "felt" it was "suspicious." That said, the DUI guy is an idiot.

What would the cops have done if the guy had pulled into the motel then right back out and went the opposite way? Is it still "legal" to pull them over for "avoiding a checkpoint?"

I don't agree with checkpoints personally, however someone poking around a closed business would arouse my suspicions. It wouldn't be unlawful for you to go talk to the guy, it therefore is not unlawful for an officer to go talk to the guy.

If the guy had just turned around and driven away without violating any laws and they stopped him I would say they lacked cause for the stop, but that is not the choice he made.

Believing the driver's sudden turn into the parking lot to be suspicious, an officer drove to the parking lot to investigate. As he entered the parking lot, the officer observed Daniels get out of the vehicle from the driver's side door and walk toward the door of the motel.

It wasn't until the cop drove over to the guy that the officer saw him poking around a closed business. The officer felt it was suspicious as soon as he pulled off the road......like the officer "knew" he was up to no good......not the fact that he was trying to avoid a checkpoint. That's what I'm wondering about, that's all.

Posted: 9/12/2013 10:51:52 AM EDT

[#32]

Quote History

Quoted:

It wasn't until the cop drove over to the guy that the officer saw him poking around a closed business. The officer felt it was suspicious as soon as he pulled off the road......like the officer "knew" he was up to no good......not the fact that he was trying to avoid a checkpoint. That's what I'm wondering about, that's all.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Yep, drunk dude got out of the car he was seen driving and got a DUI.

Cop had no reason to go talk to him except he "felt" it was "suspicious." That said, the DUI guy is an idiot.

What would the cops have done if the guy had pulled into the motel then right back out and went the opposite way? Is it still "legal" to pull them over for "avoiding a checkpoint?"

I don't agree with checkpoints personally, however someone poking around a closed business would arouse my suspicions. It wouldn't be unlawful for you to go talk to the guy, it therefore is not unlawful for an officer to go talk to the guy.

If the guy had just turned around and driven away without violating any laws and they stopped him I would say they lacked cause for the stop, but that is not the choice he made.

Believing the driver's sudden turn into the parking lot to be suspicious, an officer drove to the parking lot to investigate. As he entered the parking lot, the officer observed Daniels get out of the vehicle from the driver's side door and walk toward the door of the motel.

It wasn't until the cop drove over to the guy that the officer saw him poking around a closed business. The officer felt it was suspicious as soon as he pulled off the road......like the officer "knew" he was up to no good......not the fact that he was trying to avoid a checkpoint. That's what I'm wondering about, that's all.

From the OP:

[O]fficers were conducting a roadblock at about 10:30 p.m. They observed a red Pontiac approach within 75 yards of the roadblock before suddenly turning off of the road and into the parking lot of a closed motel. Believing the driver's sudden turn into the parking lot to be suspicious, an officer drove to the parking lot to investigate. As he entered the parking lot, the officer observed Daniels get out of the vehicle from the driver's side door and walk toward the door of the motel. The officer approached Daniels and asked what he was doing. Daniels responded that "he had come to get a room." The officer told Daniels that the "motel had been shut down for some time." He noticed that Daniels "appeared nervous," had glassy, bloodshot eyes, and had a "very strong" odor of alcohol about him.

The hotel was known to be closed before the suspect pulled into it.

Pulling away suddenly from a check point and pulling into a known to be closed business, parking, exiting the car, and walking towards the known to be closed business doesn't strike you as.....odd?

Posted: 9/12/2013 10:55:23 AM EDT

[#33]

Quote History

Quoted:

From the OP:

[O]fficers were conducting a roadblock at about 10:30 p.m. They observed a red Pontiac approach within 75 yards of the roadblock before suddenly turning off of the road and into the parking lot of a closed motel. Believing the driver's sudden turn into the parking lot to be suspicious, an officer drove to the parking lot to investigate. As he entered the parking lot, the officer observed Daniels get out of the vehicle from the driver's side door and walk toward the door of the motel. The officer approached Daniels and asked what he was doing. Daniels responded that "he had come to get a room." The officer told Daniels that the "motel had been shut down for some time." He noticed that Daniels "appeared nervous," had glassy, bloodshot eyes, and had a "very strong" odor of alcohol about him.

The hotel was known to be closed before the suspect pulled into it.

Pulling away suddenly from a check point and pulling into a known to be closed business, parking, exiting the car, and walking towards the known to be closed business doesn't strike you as.....odd?

View Quote

I bet he was looking for the address, almost passed it, and did a sharp turn into the parking lot. He wanted to buy the place.

Posted: 9/12/2013 10:56:46 AM EDT

[#34]

I often shop for motels to buy while drunk driving.

I'm impulsive like that.

Posted: 9/12/2013 10:56:50 AM EDT

[#35]

Quote History

Quoted:Pulling away suddenly from a check point and pulling into a known to be closed business, parking, exiting the car, and walking towards the known to be closed business doesn't strike you as.....odd?

View Quote

But, but, but... joinder!

Posted: 9/12/2013 10:57:46 AM EDT

[#36]

Quote History

Quoted:
But, but, but... joinder!

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:Pulling away suddenly from a check point and pulling into a known to be closed business, parking, exiting the car, and walking towards the known to be closed business doesn't strike you as.....odd?

But, but, but... joinder!

Is it still gay if the balls don't touch?

Or am I mistaken.......

Posted: 9/12/2013 11:13:51 AM EDT

[#37]

Quote History

Quoted:
In a(n) (doomed) attempt to push the derail back on the tracks (and the issue of checkpoints ignored since it is not germane to the ruling)...

After reading the article, I don't have an issue with the ruling.

If an officers sees a driver pull in to a parking lot, exit the vehicle and begin staggering away, he is just as likely to investigate, no?

View Quote

Especially in the parking lot of a closed hotel.

Posted: 9/12/2013 11:13:53 AM EDT

[#38]

Quote History

Quoted:

From the OP:

[O]fficers were conducting a roadblock at about 10:30 p.m. They observed a red Pontiac approach within 75 yards of the roadblock before suddenly turning off of the road and into the parking lot of a closed motel. Believing the driver's sudden turn into the parking lot to be suspicious, an officer drove to the parking lot to investigate. As he entered the parking lot, the officer observed Daniels get out of the vehicle from the driver's side door and walk toward the door of the motel. The officer approached Daniels and asked what he was doing. Daniels responded that "he had come to get a room." The officer told Daniels that the "motel had been shut down for some time." He noticed that Daniels "appeared nervous," had glassy, bloodshot eyes, and had a "very strong" odor of alcohol about him.

The hotel was known to be closed before the suspect pulled into it.

Pulling away suddenly from a check point and pulling into a known to be closed business, parking, exiting the car, and walking towards the known to be closed business doesn't strike you as.....odd?

View Quote

So pulling into a place to look at a map or your phone for directions is odd? Maybe he was going to call someone and it's illegal in the state to drive/talk on teh phone? There's a million reasons why he could have pulled in there, the majority of them being not odd. The act of him pulling into someplace in of itself is not odd, no.

As per the OP, the cop didn't drive over until after the car pulled into the lot and then the guy exited the vehicle. The cop drove over when the guy pulled into the motel THEN he saw him exit and stumble around. <----this is not the part I'm curious about....I'm not questioning the arrest.

Posted: 9/12/2013 11:22:24 AM EDT

[#39]

Quote History

Quoted:

So pulling into a place to look at a map or your phone for directions is odd? Maybe he was going to call someone and it's illegal in the state to drive/talk on teh phone? There's a million reasons why he could have pulled in there, the majority of them being not odd. The act of him pulling into someplace in of itself is not odd, no.

View Quote

Let's be realistic here... If the cops had seen a set of headlights a half mile away, turning off the road, then yeah, it is a but much to expect us to believe that was sufficient reason to track the driver down.

But in this case, the guy slows down, pulls off into the parking lot of a closed business within sight of a road checkpoint. The cops at the roadblock had to have though the driver could see the checkpoint. That alone is worth a look-see. Not saying at that point that the officer had sufficient reason to actively detain or question the subject, but it IS something that I, if I were a cop, would have at least checked out.

Proactive policing is not always a bad thing.

Posted: 9/12/2013 11:26:42 AM EDT

[#40]

Quote History

Quoted:

So pulling into a place to look at a map or your phone for directions is odd? Maybe he was going to call someone and it's illegal in the state to drive/talk on teh phone? There's a million reasons why he could have pulled in there, the majority of them being not odd. The act of him pulling into someplace in of itself is not odd, no.

As per the OP, the cop didn't drive over until after the car pulled into the lot and then the guy exited the vehicle. The cop drove over when the guy pulled into the motel THEN he saw him exit and stumble around. <----this is not the part I'm curious about....I'm not questioning the arrest.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

From the OP:

[O]fficers were conducting a roadblock at about 10:30 p.m. They observed a red Pontiac approach within 75 yards of the roadblock before suddenly turning off of the road and into the parking lot of a closed motel. Believing the driver's sudden turn into the parking lot to be suspicious, an officer drove to the parking lot to investigate. As he entered the parking lot, the officer observed Daniels get out of the vehicle from the driver's side door and walk toward the door of the motel. The officer approached Daniels and asked what he was doing. Daniels responded that "he had come to get a room." The officer told Daniels that the "motel had been shut down for some time." He noticed that Daniels "appeared nervous," had glassy, bloodshot eyes, and had a "very strong" odor of alcohol about him.

The hotel was known to be closed before the suspect pulled into it.

Pulling away suddenly from a check point and pulling into a known to be closed business, parking, exiting the car, and walking towards the known to be closed business doesn't strike you as.....odd?

So pulling into a place to look at a map or your phone for directions is odd? Maybe he was going to call someone and it's illegal in the state to drive/talk on teh phone? There's a million reasons why he could have pulled in there, the majority of them being not odd. The act of him pulling into someplace in of itself is not odd, no.

As per the OP, the cop didn't drive over until after the car pulled into the lot and then the guy exited the vehicle. The cop drove over when the guy pulled into the motel THEN he saw him exit and stumble around. <----this is not the part I'm curious about....I'm not questioning the arrest.

Had the suspect actually been looking at his phone, reading a map, pulling over to read a book or eat a sammich, even looking at the hotel stating he was considering purchasing the property, nothing the cop did in pulling in behind to see what the subject was doing would be out of line.

I can go anywhere the public can go in the course of my duties. Investigating a suspicious person is part of my duties. Being able to articulate why someone is suspicious and thus the subject of my curiosity and my striking up a conversation with them is what is required. This occurred when the officer stated the subject turned around suddenly upon seeing the check point and then pulled into a known to be closed business. I'd have driven over to see what the driver was doing too.

IMO, the check point has nothing to do with the consensual stop. We have a few closed businesses where I work. When I see vehicles pulling into/out of them I will stop them to see what they are doing and what is going on. Most of the time its a legit reason for being there. Sometimes its not.

Posted: 9/12/2013 11:30:04 AM EDT

[#41]

Quote History

Quoted:

Had the suspect actually been looking at his phone, reading a map, pulling over to read a book or eat a sammich, even looking at the hotel stating he was considering purchasing the property, nothing the cop did in pulling in behind to see what the subject was doing would be out of line.

I can go anywhere the public can go in the course of my duties. Investigating a suspicious person is part of my duties. Being able to articulate why someone is suspicious and thus the subject of my curiosity and my striking up a conversation with them is what is required. This occurred when the officer stated the subject turned around suddenly upon seeing the check point and then pulled into a known to be closed business. I'd have driven over to see what the driver was doing too.

IMO, the check point has nothing to do with the consensual stop. We have a few closed businesses where I work. When I see vehicles pulling into/out of them I will stop them to see what they are doing and what is going on. Most of the time its a legit reason for being there. Sometimes its not.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

From the OP:

[O]fficers were conducting a roadblock at about 10:30 p.m. They observed a red Pontiac approach within 75 yards of the roadblock before suddenly turning off of the road and into the parking lot of a closed motel. Believing the driver's sudden turn into the parking lot to be suspicious, an officer drove to the parking lot to investigate. As he entered the parking lot, the officer observed Daniels get out of the vehicle from the driver's side door and walk toward the door of the motel. The officer approached Daniels and asked what he was doing. Daniels responded that "he had come to get a room." The officer told Daniels that the "motel had been shut down for some time." He noticed that Daniels "appeared nervous," had glassy, bloodshot eyes, and had a "very strong" odor of alcohol about him.

The hotel was known to be closed before the suspect pulled into it.

Pulling away suddenly from a check point and pulling into a known to be closed business, parking, exiting the car, and walking towards the known to be closed business doesn't strike you as.....odd?

So pulling into a place to look at a map or your phone for directions is odd? Maybe he was going to call someone and it's illegal in the state to drive/talk on teh phone? There's a million reasons why he could have pulled in there, the majority of them being not odd. The act of him pulling into someplace in of itself is not odd, no.

As per the OP, the cop didn't drive over until after the car pulled into the lot and then the guy exited the vehicle. The cop drove over when the guy pulled into the motel THEN he saw him exit and stumble around. <----this is not the part I'm curious about....I'm not questioning the arrest.

Had the suspect actually been looking at his phone, reading a map, pulling over to read a book or eat a sammich, even looking at the hotel stating he was considering purchasing the property, nothing the cop did in pulling in behind to see what the subject was doing would be out of line.

I can go anywhere the public can go in the course of my duties. Investigating a suspicious person is part of my duties. Being able to articulate why someone is suspicious and thus the subject of my curiosity and my striking up a conversation with them is what is required. This occurred when the officer stated the subject turned around suddenly upon seeing the check point and then pulled into a known to be closed business. I'd have driven over to see what the driver was doing too.

IMO, the check point has nothing to do with the consensual stop. We have a few closed businesses where I work. When I see vehicles pulling into/out of them I will stop them to see what they are doing and what is going on. Most of the time its a legit reason for being there. Sometimes its not.

Well said, OP.

Posted: 9/12/2013 11:36:16 AM EDT

[#42]

Probably should have killed all those iraqis who turned around at our checkpoints. Suspicious as hell

Posted: 9/12/2013 11:37:13 AM EDT

[#43]

Quote History

Quoted:

So pulling into a place to look at a map or your phone for directions is odd? Maybe he was going to call someone and it's illegal in the state to drive/talk on teh phone? There's a million reasons why he could have pulled in there, the majority of them being not odd. The act of him pulling into someplace in of itself is not odd, no.

As per the OP, the cop didn't drive over until after the car pulled into the lot and then the guy exited the vehicle. The cop drove over when the guy pulled into the motel THEN he saw him exit and stumble around. <----this is not the part I'm curious about....I'm not questioning the arrest.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

From the OP:

[O]fficers were conducting a roadblock at about 10:30 p.m. They observed a red Pontiac approach within 75 yards of the roadblock before suddenly turning off of the road and into the parking lot of a closed motel. Believing the driver's sudden turn into the parking lot to be suspicious, an officer drove to the parking lot to investigate. As he entered the parking lot, the officer observed Daniels get out of the vehicle from the driver's side door and walk toward the door of the motel. The officer approached Daniels and asked what he was doing. Daniels responded that "he had come to get a room." The officer told Daniels that the "motel had been shut down for some time." He noticed that Daniels "appeared nervous," had glassy, bloodshot eyes, and had a "very strong" odor of alcohol about him.

The hotel was known to be closed before the suspect pulled into it.

Pulling away suddenly from a check point and pulling into a known to be closed business, parking, exiting the car, and walking towards the known to be closed business doesn't strike you as.....odd?

So pulling into a place to look at a map or your phone for directions is odd? Maybe he was going to call someone and it's illegal in the state to drive/talk on teh phone? There's a million reasons why he could have pulled in there, the majority of them being not odd. The act of him pulling into someplace in of itself is not odd, no.

As per the OP, the cop didn't drive over until after the car pulled into the lot and then the guy exited the vehicle. The cop drove over when the guy pulled into the motel THEN he saw him exit and stumble around. <----this is not the part I'm curious about....I'm not questioning the arrest.

Obviously his suspicions were accurate......

Posted: 9/12/2013 11:38:52 AM EDT

[#44]

Quote History

Quoted:

Had the suspect actually been looking at his phone, reading a map, pulling over to read a book or eat a sammich, even looking at the hotel stating he was considering purchasing the property, nothing the cop did in pulling in behind to see what the subject was doing would be out of line.

I can go anywhere the public can go in the course of my duties. Investigating a suspicious person is part of my duties. Being able to articulate why someone is suspicious and thus the subject of my curiosity and my striking up a conversation with them is what is required. This occurred when the officer stated the subject turned around suddenly upon seeing the check point and then pulled into a known to be closed business. I'd have driven over to see what the driver was doing too.

IMO, the check point has nothing to do with the consensual stop. We have a few closed businesses where I work. When I see vehicles pulling into/out of them I will stop them to see what they are doing and what is going on. Most of the time its a legit reason for being there. Sometimes its not.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

From the OP:

[O]fficers were conducting a roadblock at about 10:30 p.m. They observed a red Pontiac approach within 75 yards of the roadblock before suddenly turning off of the road and into the parking lot of a closed motel. Believing the driver's sudden turn into the parking lot to be suspicious, an officer drove to the parking lot to investigate. As he entered the parking lot, the officer observed Daniels get out of the vehicle from the driver's side door and walk toward the door of the motel. The officer approached Daniels and asked what he was doing. Daniels responded that "he had come to get a room." The officer told Daniels that the "motel had been shut down for some time." He noticed that Daniels "appeared nervous," had glassy, bloodshot eyes, and had a "very strong" odor of alcohol about him.

The hotel was known to be closed before the suspect pulled into it.

Pulling away suddenly from a check point and pulling into a known to be closed business, parking, exiting the car, and walking towards the known to be closed business doesn't strike you as.....odd?

So pulling into a place to look at a map or your phone for directions is odd? Maybe he was going to call someone and it's illegal in the state to drive/talk on teh phone? There's a million reasons why he could have pulled in there, the majority of them being not odd. The act of him pulling into someplace in of itself is not odd, no.

As per the OP, the cop didn't drive over until after the car pulled into the lot and then the guy exited the vehicle. The cop drove over when the guy pulled into the motel THEN he saw him exit and stumble around. <----this is not the part I'm curious about....I'm not questioning the arrest.

Had the suspect actually been looking at his phone, reading a map, pulling over to read a book or eat a sammich, even looking at the hotel stating he was considering purchasing the property, nothing the cop did in pulling in behind to see what the subject was doing would be out of line.

I can go anywhere the public can go in the course of my duties. Investigating a suspicious person is part of my duties. Being able to articulate why someone is suspicious and thus the subject of my curiosity and my striking up a conversation with them is what is required. This occurred when the officer stated the subject turned around suddenly upon seeing the check point and then pulled into a known to be closed business. I'd have driven over to see what the driver was doing too.

IMO, the check point has nothing to do with the consensual stop. We have a few closed businesses where I work. When I see vehicles pulling into/out of them I will stop them to see what they are doing and what is going on. Most of the time its a legit reason for being there. Sometimes its not.

And that's fine......I just don't see it the same way. /shrug

Course, I think checkpoints are a fuckin waste of time and stupid as fuck so anything people can do to avoid them I applaud.

Posted: 9/12/2013 11:39:26 AM EDT

[#45]

Quote History

Quoted:

Obviously his suspicions were accurate......

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

From the OP:

[O]fficers were conducting a roadblock at about 10:30 p.m. They observed a red Pontiac approach within 75 yards of the roadblock before suddenly turning off of the road and into the parking lot of a closed motel. Believing the driver's sudden turn into the parking lot to be suspicious, an officer drove to the parking lot to investigate. As he entered the parking lot, the officer observed Daniels get out of the vehicle from the driver's side door and walk toward the door of the motel. The officer approached Daniels and asked what he was doing. Daniels responded that "he had come to get a room." The officer told Daniels that the "motel had been shut down for some time." He noticed that Daniels "appeared nervous," had glassy, bloodshot eyes, and had a "very strong" odor of alcohol about him.

The hotel was known to be closed before the suspect pulled into it.

Pulling away suddenly from a check point and pulling into a known to be closed business, parking, exiting the car, and walking towards the known to be closed business doesn't strike you as.....odd?

So pulling into a place to look at a map or your phone for directions is odd? Maybe he was going to call someone and it's illegal in the state to drive/talk on teh phone? There's a million reasons why he could have pulled in there, the majority of them being not odd. The act of him pulling into someplace in of itself is not odd, no.

As per the OP, the cop didn't drive over until after the car pulled into the lot and then the guy exited the vehicle. The cop drove over when the guy pulled into the motel THEN he saw him exit and stumble around. <----this is not the part I'm curious about....I'm not questioning the arrest.

Obviously his suspicions were accurate......

Ah.....the old "the end justifies the means"....pick up that can.

So it's okay to pull people over for trying to avoid checkpoints, eh? Regardless of whether or not they're breaking a law outside of that.....it's okay in your view? It's not okay in my view.

Posted: 9/12/2013 11:40:11 AM EDT

[#46]

Quote History

Quoted:
Course, I think checkpoints are a fuckin waste of time and stupid as fuck so anything people can do to avoid them I applaud.

View Quote

The drunk avoided the shit out of that checkpoint.

Posted: 9/12/2013 11:40:36 AM EDT

[#47]

Quote History

Quoted:

Ah.....the old "the end justifies the means"....pick up that can.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

From the OP:

[O]fficers were conducting a roadblock at about 10:30 p.m. They observed a red Pontiac approach within 75 yards of the roadblock before suddenly turning off of the road and into the parking lot of a closed motel. Believing the driver's sudden turn into the parking lot to be suspicious, an officer drove to the parking lot to investigate. As he entered the parking lot, the officer observed Daniels get out of the vehicle from the driver's side door and walk toward the door of the motel. The officer approached Daniels and asked what he was doing. Daniels responded that "he had come to get a room." The officer told Daniels that the "motel had been shut down for some time." He noticed that Daniels "appeared nervous," had glassy, bloodshot eyes, and had a "very strong" odor of alcohol about him.

The hotel was known to be closed before the suspect pulled into it.

Pulling away suddenly from a check point and pulling into a known to be closed business, parking, exiting the car, and walking towards the known to be closed business doesn't strike you as.....odd?

So pulling into a place to look at a map or your phone for directions is odd? Maybe he was going to call someone and it's illegal in the state to drive/talk on teh phone? There's a million reasons why he could have pulled in there, the majority of them being not odd. The act of him pulling into someplace in of itself is not odd, no.

As per the OP, the cop didn't drive over until after the car pulled into the lot and then the guy exited the vehicle. The cop drove over when the guy pulled into the motel THEN he saw him exit and stumble around. <----this is not the part I'm curious about....I'm not questioning the arrest.

Obviously his suspicions were accurate......

Ah.....the old "the end justifies the means"....pick up that can.

Posted: 9/12/2013 11:42:04 AM EDT

[#48]

Quote History

Quoted:

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:

From the OP:

[O]fficers were conducting a roadblock at about 10:30 p.m. They observed a red Pontiac approach within 75 yards of the roadblock before suddenly turning off of the road and into the parking lot of a closed motel. Believing the driver's sudden turn into the parking lot to be suspicious, an officer drove to the parking lot to investigate. As he entered the parking lot, the officer observed Daniels get out of the vehicle from the driver's side door and walk toward the door of the motel. The officer approached Daniels and asked what he was doing. Daniels responded that "he had come to get a room." The officer told Daniels that the "motel had been shut down for some time." He noticed that Daniels "appeared nervous," had glassy, bloodshot eyes, and had a "very strong" odor of alcohol about him.

The hotel was known to be closed before the suspect pulled into it.

Pulling away suddenly from a check point and pulling into a known to be closed business, parking, exiting the car, and walking towards the known to be closed business doesn't strike you as.....odd?

So pulling into a place to look at a map or your phone for directions is odd? Maybe he was going to call someone and it's illegal in the state to drive/talk on teh phone? There's a million reasons why he could have pulled in there, the majority of them being not odd. The act of him pulling into someplace in of itself is not odd, no.

As per the OP, the cop didn't drive over until after the car pulled into the lot and then the guy exited the vehicle. The cop drove over when the guy pulled into the motel THEN he saw him exit and stumble around. <----this is not the part I'm curious about....I'm not questioning the arrest.

Obviously his suspicions were accurate......

Ah.....the old "the end justifies the means"....pick up that can.

Exactly what I think of your post. But hey, since he was actually caught doing something illegal, right?