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Posted: 9/5/2013 6:28:15 AM EDT
in case anyone has never seen one. This is off an old GM Electromotive "EMD" This is an electric motor that drives a set of wheels. CSB and all that
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Posted: 9/5/2013 6:31:08 AM EDT
[#1]
Sweet! All you need now is a generator and a home made ice cream making machine and youre all set to be the most popular guy in the neighborhood.
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Posted: 9/5/2013 6:32:49 AM EDT
[#2]
It is surprising how many people do not realize that diesel train engines are actually electric train engines that carry around their own electrical power plant with them.
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Posted: 9/5/2013 6:33:03 AM EDT
[#3]
Golf cart named Bigfoot?
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Posted: 9/5/2013 6:35:23 AM EDT
[#4]
Interesting.
I saw several of these on a flatbed yesterday on the way home from work. Yes I knew what they were when I saw them. 3 traction drives, plus 3 sets of wheels made that truck blow some black smoke. 
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Posted: 9/5/2013 6:35:29 AM EDT
[#5]
Looks very familiar.............I used to work as a switchman/sampler at the local power plant, and we had an electromotive engine that hauled the coal cars out of the yard
Quoted:
in case anyone has never seen one. This is off an old GM Electromotive "EMD" This is an electric motor that drives a set of wheels. CSB and all that
http://i41.tinypic.com/2s6vsdd.jpg |
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Posted: 9/5/2013 6:35:34 AM EDT
[#6]
Here is another locomotive traction motor, but we use them for draw works and mud pumps.
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Posted: 9/5/2013 6:36:50 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is surprising how many people do not realize that diesel train engines are actually electric train engines that carry around their own electrical power plant with them. Yep. This happens to be a DC motor, but there are AC gensets also. I'll have to see if I can get a pic of one of the air compressors off one of these things (giant 3 cylinders, IIRC) |
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Posted: 9/5/2013 6:38:28 AM EDT
[#8]
Nice, I expected it to be a lot larger. (Insert joke here!)
Is there just one, or one per axle? What is the ratio of motor RPM to wheel RPM? |
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Posted: 9/5/2013 6:41:50 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nice, I expected it to be a lot larger. (Insert joke here!) Is there just one, or one per axle? What is the ratio of motor RPM to wheel RPM? I believe it's one motor per axle. As far as the reduction, hopefully somebody that works on these things will chime in. I work on the signals. |
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Posted: 9/5/2013 6:42:01 AM EDT
[#10]
That looks very heavy.
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Posted: 9/5/2013 6:45:35 AM EDT
[#11]
What does that weigh?
How many does a typical locomotive have? |
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Posted: 9/5/2013 6:50:56 AM EDT
[#12]
Awesome amount of horsepower in a small package. We used them for variable speed induced draft blowers on a co-generation system. Because of mass production they were also economical.
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Posted: 9/5/2013 6:51:05 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I believe it's one motor per axle. As far as the reduction, hopefully somebody that works on these things will chime in. I work on the signals. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Nice, I expected it to be a lot larger. (Insert joke here!) Is there just one, or one per axle? What is the ratio of motor RPM to wheel RPM? I believe it's one motor per axle. As far as the reduction, hopefully somebody that works on these things will chime in. I work on the signals. That's what she said! |
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Posted: 9/5/2013 6:51:50 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That looks very heavy. 4,000 to 8,000 lbs depending on the model. I am not overly knowledgeable in the field, but I would guess that one at around 5,900 lbs. |
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Posted: 9/5/2013 6:56:24 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What does that weigh? How many does a typical locomotive have? The one I posted is 1150HP continuous with a 1400HP peak. It weighs ~ 6500 lbs. It is fed by 6 runs of 646 MCM Dlo cable. We run them off of yaskawa VFDs. |
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Posted: 9/5/2013 6:58:39 AM EDT
[#16]
Some of the industrial stuff I've seen boggled my mind. Our GE crew was at a cement plant testing and cleaning panel instruments. On the other side of the glass were the rotary mills where they pound rocks into smaller rocks. I noticed all the motor ammeters hovering around 100 amps, and asked someone what the motor voltage was.
4,160 volts 4160 x 100 = 416,000 watts = 416 kw per motor x 4 motors = 1,664 kw = 1.664 megawatts just for this one part of the whole plant At another plant, a steel mill, I was eyeballing a big stack of carbon electrodes that were fed into the arc under a steel pot. The electrodes were about a foot in diameter and several feet long. Asked my contact there how much electricity they used and he said they were the power company's biggest customer and their bill was a million bucks a month. That was 30+ years ago. |
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Posted: 9/5/2013 7:00:30 AM EDT
[#17]
Why are they called traction motors?
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Posted: 9/5/2013 7:03:26 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The one I posted is 1150HP continuous with a 1400HP peak. It weighs ~ 6500 lbs. It is fed by 6 runs of 646 MCM Dlo cable. We run them off of yaskawa VFDs. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What does that weigh? How many does a typical locomotive have? The one I posted is 1150HP continuous with a 1400HP peak. It weighs ~ 6500 lbs. It is fed by 6 runs of 646 MCM Dlo cable. We run them off of yaskawa VFDs. VFDs must be costly. Very costly. |
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Posted: 9/5/2013 7:04:45 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
At another plant, a steel mill, I was eyeballing a big stack of carbon electrodes that were fed into the arc under a steel pot. The electrodes were about a foot in diameter and several feet long. Asked my contact there how much electricity they used and he said they were the power company's biggest customer and their bill was a million bucks a month. That was 30+ years ago. I worked on the elevators at Atlantic Steel in GA, and Plant Bowen power plant about 15 miles up the road. In the control room at Bowen, it showed the feeds to the towns around the areas, and Atlantic steel. They used over $1M a month also, and that was in the early 80s. |
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Posted: 9/5/2013 7:04:58 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why are they called traction motors? Because they generate tractive force. Either by applying voltage to the motor to propel the locomotive, or running the motor as a generator coupled to a regenerative braking system during braking operations. Locomotives use regenerative braking to charge batteries, we feed it to a giant resistor grid and the extra energy is burned off as heat. |
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Posted: 9/5/2013 7:05:41 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why are they called traction motors? They feed power to the wheels (as opposed to pumps, compressors, etc...). Same with a Prius. |
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Posted: 9/5/2013 7:05:46 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
VFDs must be costly. Very costly. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
What does that weigh? How many does a typical locomotive have? The one I posted is 1150HP continuous with a 1400HP peak. It weighs ~ 6500 lbs. It is fed by 6 runs of 646 MCM Dlo cable. We run them off of yaskawa VFDs. VFDs must be costly. Very costly. I think I heard 15k per drive. Each motor takes 3. |
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Posted: 9/5/2013 7:06:24 AM EDT
[#23]
Thanks
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Posted: 9/5/2013 7:06:44 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The one I posted is 1150HP continuous with a 1400HP peak. It weighs ~ 6500 lbs. It is fed by 6 runs of 646 MCM Dlo cable. We run them off of yaskawa VFDs. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What does that weigh? How many does a typical locomotive have? The one I posted is 1150HP continuous with a 1400HP peak. It weighs ~ 6500 lbs. It is fed by 6 runs of 646 MCM Dlo cable. We run them off of yaskawa VFDs. I would love to see the IGBT and capacitor banks on that sucker! 
Is it liquid cooled and the size of a double freezer? |
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Posted: 9/5/2013 7:10:55 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would love to see the IGBT and capacitor banks on that sucker!
Is it liquid cooled and the size of a double freezer? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
What does that weigh? How many does a typical locomotive have? The one I posted is 1150HP continuous with a 1400HP peak. It weighs ~ 6500 lbs. It is fed by 6 runs of 646 MCM Dlo cable. We run them off of yaskawa VFDs. I would love to see the IGBT and capacitor banks on that sucker!
Is it liquid cooled and the size of a double freezer? Not liquid cooled, but two very large ac units keep the temp around 70F. Each rig has 14 VFDs. They each weigh about 250-300 lbs. 
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Posted: 9/5/2013 7:16:51 AM EDT
[#26]
WANT!
But couldn't afford to do anything with it.  Since it's DC, I propose the First Annual Arfcom Locomotive Traction Motor AA-Battery Challenge! <FAALTMAABC> Let the game begin . . . Can we get sponsorship from Duracell or Eveready? Can the motor power an upscaled skateboard piloted by an adventurous possum? |
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Posted: 9/5/2013 7:22:04 AM EDT
[#27]
I've hauled more then a few of those when I was driving truck
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Posted: 9/5/2013 7:24:43 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is surprising how many people do not realize that diesel train engines are actually electric train engines that carry around their own electrical power plant with them. Proving your point: I had no idea. And I consider myself above-average mechanical and 43 years old. |
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Posted: 9/5/2013 7:24:56 AM EDT
[#29]
Nice!
I myself have been around some big motors. 2,000 HP boiler feed pumps and 6,000 HP MVR compressor motors. |
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Posted: 9/5/2013 7:30:21 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Proving your point: I had no idea. And I consider myself above-average mechanical and 43 years old. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It is surprising how many people do not realize that diesel train engines are actually electric train engines that carry around their own electrical power plant with them. Proving your point: I had no idea. And I consider myself above-average mechanical and 43 years old. Yup. They run large diesel gensets that provide power to the motors and also battery banks. The motors can be run off of just the battery banks, and also recharge the batteries during breaking. Think of a diesel electric locomotive as a very large hybrid car. |
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Posted: 9/5/2013 7:31:43 AM EDT
[#31]
Ah, Plant Bowen.............my old stomping grounds
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I worked on the elevators at Atlantic Steel in GA, and Plant Bowen power plant about 15 miles up the road. In the control room at Bowen, it showed the feeds to the towns around the areas, and Atlantic steel. They used over $1M a month also, and that was in the early 80s. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
At another plant, a steel mill, I was eyeballing a big stack of carbon electrodes that were fed into the arc under a steel pot. The electrodes were about a foot in diameter and several feet long. Asked my contact there how much electricity they used and he said they were the power company's biggest customer and their bill was a million bucks a month. That was 30+ years ago. I worked on the elevators at Atlantic Steel in GA, and Plant Bowen power plant about 15 miles up the road. In the control room at Bowen, it showed the feeds to the towns around the areas, and Atlantic steel. They used over $1M a month also, and that was in the early 80s. |
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Posted: 9/5/2013 7:33:28 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Some of the industrial stuff I've seen boggled my mind. Our GE crew was at a cement plant testing and cleaning panel instruments. On the other side of the glass were the rotary mills where they pound rocks into smaller rocks. I noticed all the motor ammeters hovering around 100 amps, and asked someone what the motor voltage was. One cement plant I worked had three ball mills ( 1 for raw grinding and 2 for finish grinding) that each had a 5MW motor. Another plant I worked at has 1 mill with a 6MW motor and 2 with around 4 MW motors. That second plant could pull more than 40MW off the grid with everything running. |
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Posted: 9/5/2013 7:38:36 AM EDT
[#33]
We make those at work.
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Posted: 9/5/2013 7:40:54 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
One cement plant I worked had three ball mills ( 1 for raw grinding and 2 for finish grinding) that each had a 5MW motor. Another plant I worked at has 1 mill with a 6MW motor and 2 with around 4 MW motors. That second plant could pull more than 40MW off the grid with everything running. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Some of the industrial stuff I've seen boggled my mind. Our GE crew was at a cement plant testing and cleaning panel instruments. On the other side of the glass were the rotary mills where they pound rocks into smaller rocks. I noticed all the motor ammeters hovering around 100 amps, and asked someone what the motor voltage was. One cement plant I worked had three ball mills ( 1 for raw grinding and 2 for finish grinding) that each had a 5MW motor. Another plant I worked at has 1 mill with a 6MW motor and 2 with around 4 MW motors. That second plant could pull more than 40MW off the grid with everything running. We can produce 4.5 MW off of our 3 gensets. (Cat 3512C) |
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Posted: 9/5/2013 7:48:51 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
VFDs must be costly. Very costly. But worth it. AC locomotives produce much higher tractive effort than their DC cousins. 20 years ago, it was somewhere around a half million more for the AC versions (on a $2 million locomotive) Gear ratios vary, depending on whether the locos are optimized for high speed or low speed service. Typical is around 80:20 to 80:15 or thereabouts (GE), GM's were 62:15 more or less. Regenerative braking is only on gensets and electrified RR's - puts power into batteries or the overhead wires. Regular locos have big dynamic brake resistors with fans to cool them. RR's have been having issues with people stealing traction motor cables for the copper. |
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Posted: 9/5/2013 8:11:17 AM EDT
[#36]
This is a very tragic video (no gore, but some teenage kids died over sheer foolishness). You can hear the dynamic brake a few seconds after the car is hit. The train stops very quickly (for a train)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOPtw5ZLX_c |
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Posted: 9/5/2013 8:23:20 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is a very tragic video (no gore, but some teenage kids died over sheer foolishness). You can hear the dynamic brake a few seconds after the car is hit. The train stops very quickly (for a train) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOPtw5ZLX_c Play stupid games. Win stupid prizes. They won. |
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Posted: 9/5/2013 8:24:23 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is a very tragic video (no gore, but some teenage kids died over sheer foolishness). You can hear the dynamic brake a few seconds after the car is hit. The train stops very quickly (for a train) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOPtw5ZLX_c Amtraks run light relative to freights. Sucks for the engineer and crew to have to see it and everyone else to be inconvenienced by the stop, cleanup, and paperwork |
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Posted: 9/5/2013 8:26:52 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Amtraks run light relative to freights. Sucks for the engineer and crew to have to see it and everyone else to be inconvenienced by the stop, cleanup, and paperwork Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This is a very tragic video (no gore, but some teenage kids died over sheer foolishness). You can hear the dynamic brake a few seconds after the car is hit. The train stops very quickly (for a train) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOPtw5ZLX_c Amtraks run light relative to freights. Sucks for the engineer and crew to have to see it and everyone else to be inconvenienced by the stop, cleanup, and paperwork That is true and they also use disc brakes, IIRC. Having said that, the dynamic brake probably cut the stopping distance in half of what it would have been otherwise. |
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Posted: 9/5/2013 8:27:04 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why are they called traction motors? They generate full torque when stalled, and as they increase speed, torque drops until the motor's generating effect equals the supply line voltage. If the motor overruns this speed, the generator effect of the motor feeds power back into the supply line. The most important feature is the full torque at stall, which is needed for starting a heavy train. Traction motors can be series wound DC motors, or rotating field AC motors. |
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Posted: 9/5/2013 8:27:14 AM EDT
[#41]
Buy a used Tahoe Hybrid, yank out the back seats, hook up one of these and head for the dragstrip!
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Posted: 9/5/2013 8:36:37 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Proving your point: I had no idea. And I consider myself above-average mechanical and 43 years old. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It is surprising how many people do not realize that diesel train engines are actually electric train engines that carry around their own electrical power plant with them. Proving your point: I had no idea. And I consider myself above-average mechanical and 43 years old. I think I knew that, but only because I probably learned it here
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Posted: 9/5/2013 8:39:57 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yup. They run large diesel gensets that provide power to the motors and also battery banks. The motors can be run off of just the battery banks, and also recharge the batteries during breaking. Think of a diesel electric locomotive as a very large hybrid car. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
It is surprising how many people do not realize that diesel train engines are actually electric train engines that carry around their own electrical power plant with them. Proving your point: I had no idea. And I consider myself above-average mechanical and 43 years old. Yup. They run large diesel gensets that provide power to the motors and also battery banks. The motors can be run off of just the battery banks, and also recharge the batteries during breaking. Think of a diesel electric locomotive as a very large hybrid car. Not really. The only diesel-electric in any use here that does that is the GE ES44AH. That may never happen though. During regenerative or dynamic breaking, the power is put to a grid as heat. Lder EMDs had blisters, newer ones don't, but if the locomotive is DB equipped, there is atleast one fan to col the DBs off. |
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Posted: 9/5/2013 8:40:34 AM EDT
[#44]
This actually is a cool story.
I have always wondered what the motors looked like. |
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Posted: 9/5/2013 8:45:25 AM EDT
[#45]
Don't confuse GenSet locomotives with Green Goat locomotives. Green Goats have the massive battery banks with a small diesel generator to keep them charged. They can use regen braking for help. Green Goats suck.
GenSets locomotives are merely 1-3 small diesel engines paired with their own generators on its own skid. Some have DBs others don't. GenSets also suck. |
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Posted: 9/5/2013 9:04:36 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Some of the industrial stuff I've seen boggled my mind. Our GE crew was at a cement plant testing and cleaning panel instruments. On the other side of the glass were the rotary mills where they pound rocks into smaller rocks. I noticed all the motor ammeters hovering around 100 amps, and asked someone what the motor voltage was. 4,160 volts 4160 x 100 = 416,000 watts = 416 kw per motor x 4 motors = 1,664 kw = 1.664 megawatts just for this one part of the whole plant At another plant, a steel mill, I was eyeballing a big stack of carbon electrodes that were fed into the arc under a steel pot. The electrodes were about a foot in diameter and several feet long. Asked my contact there how much electricity they used and he said they were the power company's biggest customer and their bill was a million bucks a month. That was 30+ years ago. I watched the same type of ammeters one time, also pegging out at +400 amps as they went through their cycle. Won't mention the voltage since they were powering a phased array radar at an AFS in Alaska. I can tell you that the 6 diesel generators at that site came from the old Stanley R. Mickelson Safeguard Missile Defense site 2 miles NE of Nekoma, ND back in the mid 70's. They were rebuilding one of the generators when I was there in late 2004 - the piston was the size of a large dinner plate, it was huge. Anyway, back to the electric RR genset thread.... |
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Posted: 9/5/2013 9:08:09 AM EDT
[#47]
I build these every day..
Joilet Equipment Corp. Take the guts out of the old Railroad units and swap them into our new frames. |
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Posted: 9/5/2013 9:29:13 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They generate full torque when stalled, and as they increase speed, torque drops until the motor's generating effect equals the supply line voltage. If the motor overruns this speed, the generator effect of the motor feeds power back into the supply line. The most important feature is the full torque at stall, which is needed for starting a heavy train. Traction motors can be series wound DC motors, or rotating field AC motors. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Why are they called traction motors? They generate full torque when stalled, and as they increase speed, torque drops until the motor's generating effect equals the supply line voltage. If the motor overruns this speed, the generator effect of the motor feeds power back into the supply line. The most important feature is the full torque at stall, which is needed for starting a heavy train. Traction motors can be series wound DC motors, or rotating field AC motors. Cool, I always thought the name 'traction' was just to specify the application. |
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Posted: 9/5/2013 1:05:54 PM EDT
[#49]
Here is a locomotive compressor. Its about the size of a picnic table. You know when they are making air. You'll hear a "whooop" followed by a boo-dah boo-dah boo-dah type noise. On a clear night, that noise can carry for miles.
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Posted: 9/5/2013 1:18:28 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryI watched the same type of ammeters one time, also pegging out at +400 amps as they went through their cycle. Won't mention the voltage since they were powering a phased array radar at an AFS in Alaska. I can tell you that the 6 diesel generators at that site came from the old Stanley R. Mickelson Safeguard Missile Defense site 2 miles NE of Nekoma, ND back in the mid 70's. They were rebuilding one of the generators when I was there in late 2004 - the piston was the size of a large dinner plate, it was huge. Aha! HAARP! AHA!
Btw the current EMD locos are called 710's. That's the cubic inches per cylinder. |
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