Looks like everyone is checking out bushmaster's website ever since the news said the sniper guy has a bushmaster .223.  

I hope Bushmaster sales go up 10,000% in the next week. Anyone considering a new AR-15 style firearm who can afford it, think [b]SERIOUSLY[/b] about buying a Bushmaster.....


[url]http://www.bushmaster.com[/url]


Scott

I have a bushmaster lower on the way, and ordered all the internal parts for it... Then when I have the $$ for the rest... Bushmaster as well...

From the depths of sorrow and despair at the evil deeds of the Ambush Killer, the one shining good may result from this is that Bushmaster is now golden.  Through no fault or deed of their own and by the hand of their sworn enemies Bushmaster has more market presence than any other firearms manufacturer.

I am really glad that I bought my bushie a few months ago...spent a small fortune (compared to my first el cheapo hunting rifle) buying USGI mags, and ammo but I'm glad I got one when I did.  I sure hope BM doesn't have to deal with any BS lawsuits over this.  Does anybody know the laws in Maryland about suing gun mfg's?

What are you talking about? This is the WORST thing that's happened to the AR world in recent history.

I don't expect total gloom over this, but really man, what are you thinking...
[b]"Bushmaster is now golden"[/b]

I couldn't disagree more.

Feel free to disagree.  Opinions are of course like assholes...  But watch Bushmaster's sales over the next six months.

And once the initial flamefests are over all AR's visibility has been ratcheted up a few notches.

Starting this weekend you're gonna see prices start back up.  And the more the media flames the higher prices will go.

Ain't you been payin' attention?

Yeah, I'm paying attention, and I think your theory is completely full of shit.

So AR prices go up....yeeeee haw!! Can't wait!

One small snag......EVERYONE now views AR's as not only "assault rifles", but as "sniper rifles" as well. Should do wonders for future legislative action.

I wont bother to ask if YOU'RE paying attention.

That's great for market share, but has anyone thought of the fallout over that information?
BM better get prepared for a lot of hate mail.
(But we know all anti-gun people are loving,upright people.)

Learn to read dumbass.  This thread is about the economics.  The thread is about what is happening to BM financially.  And what is happening to BM from a sales standpoint is golden.  You can't even access their website.  Yeah some of that's cruisers but some of that traffic will turn into cash for BM that wouldn't have happened before.

And when did anything negative the media or government ever do from a firearms standpoint ever do anything but run the prices of firearms UP?

    Bushmaster.com might not be the only one crashing because of an overload. I just signed on here and there were a little over 200 USERS and 1250 GUESTS here now.
    Too bad the USERS can't get a separate and quicker connection to this site than all the guests. Hint,Hint Goatboy. I love this website almost as much as my ar15, by the way. [:D]

Bushmaster may well feel an increase in sales.  In the short term.  However,  they can only sell as many as they make in what is a relatively small operation, and price increases are not going to offset the massive litigation costs coming their way.

I hate to say it,  but I see Bushmaster gone within a year or two, or sales limited to govt contracts.

Rising prices and limited availability are not  good things for us.

They crashed from embarrasment!

Please explain you reasoning how dramatically increased internet traffic to Bushmaster's website spells doom for the company.

And those potential lawsuits are mostly a thing of the past except for Boston and Chicago.  As has been recounted on this site in endless threads.

The incentive is on Bushmaster to either maintain their present level of modest sales of high quality firearms or take the plunge and invest the resources to satisfy a spike in demand.  I'd vote to maintain modest growth but that would mean longer leadtimes for a number of months.

It's all about seeing through the fog of battle.

I am talking about the stated increase in sales, not internet traffic.

Bushmaster will be sued, that's a given.  I can immediately think of 13 wrongful death/injury suits that must be cranking up right now in Maryland.

those "Things of the past" are still very much with us.  You don't have to lose the case to lose your shirt.

In the short view, I think Arock is pretty much correct - In terms of dollars and sense, there is no such thing as bad press.

But all too soon now, and I can already see it coming,  get ready for The New Reality:  

[b]One where Bushmaster is seen as the pimp and pusher of deadly, evil ordnance, while the real victim here - John Muhammed - will become THE poster boy for The Campaign For More Useless Gun Contol Laws.[/b]

I guess I subconciously seen this bad publicity coming.  
I looked for a Bushmaster shirt at the Tulsa show last weekend and couldn't find one.
Anyone know if there is a Bushmaster shirt? and were I can get one?

NO ETHICAL MANUFACTURER wqould be excited about or intend under such circumstance to raise its prices.  But the situation certainly affords the opportunity.  Demand and the free market make those rules.

One of the cachet's about black rifles is the government and liberals don't want us to have them.  That's why black rifle prices shot up under Clinton and have stagnated under Bush.  Watch for prices to move again in the IMMEDIATE FUTURE.  Nothing to do with availability on the open market or manufacturer's cost.  Just the desirability of and consequently demand for the product.

Wrongful death suits filed by individuals are gonna have a tough time getting heard.  They're not the same as Municipalities' class action suits for recovery of damages.

DOLOMITE is correct about the larger picture of black rifles.  We're gonna have to play the larger issue smart and fast.  Time may be our biggest ally about the 2004 AWB issue.

Let me start off by addressing your "dumbass" comment...I'll keep it brief. Go fuck yourself you self righteous cock sucker. Got it boy? Good, now lets move on.

Legislative action AGAINST the RKBA far out weighs any momentary increase in ANY firearm companies sales. No greater catalyst exists for negative legislative attepmts than what has occured during this maniacs killing spree.....and his weapon of choice just so happened to be an AR.

I'm looking beyond the "wonderful" spike in AR prices in the short term and am FAR more concerned with the potential loss of freedom that may lay ahead.

My concerns are about freedom, not capitolism. And without freedom, capitolism wont exist for any gun maker. Period.

I'd try to clear that "fog of battle" you referred to Arock, because it's preventing a good hard look down the same road every other restrictive gun legislation has walked before.

Now wait a minuite guys ...

We all own COUNTER-SNIPER rifles !

No matter the brand , the Antis will be on us like stink on Charles Schumer !

We are all going to get a bad rap on this one (like you didn't know it already).

Some how , the Media needs stories of how "Evil black assult rifles " stopped major crimes !

Anyone got any leads ?

[usa]     FIRST

Hey Pink Boy, get your head up out of my lap long enough to catch your breath.  Nothing the gov has ever done has slowed down the sale of firearms.  Every time they do ANYTHING it INCREASES the number of guns sold.  The very worst thing gov can do to the sales of firearms is NOTHING.  Every time gov backs off sales go DOWN.  Are you so stupid you can't realize that.  Hell dumbass at least half the people on this board wouldn't be here if it wasn't for the Firearm Act of 1994 and the AWB.  And get your head out of the television and learn to think for yourself.  Your right hand has affected your brain boy.

Yeah, and if you think those two events were a good thing, you're twice the fuckin moron you come across as. They may have made the [i]remaining[/i]   firearms sales go up, but they [i]limited[/i]   the over all supply. Keep subtracting numbers and you'll eventually arrive at ZERO you fuckin gimp.

Freedom is about CHOICES, not LIMITATIONS.  I'm done explaining the obvious to you. My sig line will address any further brainless inbred incest fueled comments you'll make.

I can barely hear myself think with all the yelling going on here.

But I managed this thought:

It's not going to be Bushmaster's fault, the Anti's are going to see the relationship of the D.C. shooter to his military background and will impose a ban to keep AR-15's completely out of civilian and ex-military hands. Only active police and military need "Assault Weapons", they'll say.

You half-witted child.  There's never been as great a selection of firearms as there is NOW.  All the legislation did is provide more and more types of firearms for consumption by all of us.  WHAT CAN'T YOUR FEEBLE BRAIN UNDERSTAND ABOUT THAT?  ARE YOU IN THE THIRD GRADE?  The reason there are more firearms to buy now is because there is A BIGGER MARKET TO SELL TO.  AND THE MARKET IS BIGGER BECAUSE MORE PEOPLE WANT TO BUY.  AND THE BIGGEST REASON MORE PEOPLE WANT TO BUY IS BECAUSE OF WHAT THE GOVERNMENT IS DOING.  Can you put two and two together?  Pull your head out of your rectum and think.

Yeah, AR's can be had all over the place, and if it aint fuckin' obvious, I'm real happy about that. However, your beloved bans have reduced just about every other modern military style weapon to falling in to one of two catagories.

Catagory one - Thousands of dollars above retail for a weapon at least 10 years old, with a VERY finite supply in most cases.

Catagory two - Not available AT ALL.....EVER.

Forgive me if my definition of freedom includes choices as a criteria. And since times have never been better since the bans, why don't you point me in the direction of someone willing to sell me one of the weapons below, new, at a fair retail price.


[img]www.fnmfg.com/lawenf/fncsmall.gif[/img]
[img]www.hecklerkoch-usa.com/pages/military/images/g36.jpg[/img]
[img]www.sigarms.com/apps/cmt/img/pic_tactical_sg_552.gif[/img]
[img]www.steyr-mannlicher.com/Sicherheit/aug/images/AUG-A1-417-7013.jpg[/img]
[img]www.gurpsmaster.de/galilar.jpg[/img]

What was I thinking, times are great, what do we have to fear? Our own government has done such a fine job of deciding what guns we can and can't have. Who needs choices? Lets all wave our diplomas from the school of lowered expectations and be thankful for what's left.

You're a perfect example Arock, of the infection the anti's have spread, and you're too fuckin' stupid to even realize it. If they remove the guns at a slow enough pace, people will become accustomed to it, they'll go along with it, they'll accept it and be grateful for what others decide they can keep. Fuck that. Your white flag doesn't represent me. Wave it all you want, just keep it the fuck away from those of us who prefer choices over ridiculously expensive leftovers from the wonderful bans....and magazine articles about the great weapons we'll never be ALLOWED to own.

Ahhhh...the bans....bet it makes you all warm and fuzzy just thinking how well they worked out for our FREE country. Yeah, who needs all those Euro-guns anyway? It's a matter of FREEDOM, PERSONAL CHOICE and PRINCIPLE. Might not mean much to you, but it means something to me.

Arock and M4.... Damn you two are starting to sound like single, no-man in their life, fighting over the same dick bitches.



YOU'RE ON THE SAME TEAM GUYS. Its cool to have opposing arguments but stop with the 3rd grade insults.

"Cant we all just get along??" R.K.

I am just trying to figure out where to draw the Mason-Dixon line here in this post...

C'mon people!  How about we focus our energy and disgust over this into some productive campaigning.  Let's make sure we don't just sit back and rant about what is obviously going to be another attempt to capitalize on opportunity by the gun grabbers.  Let's get on the phone and hit with emails/letters to the politicians, media, etc. and make sure that the anti voices are not the only ones being heard out there!

Let's Oorah this one!!!

The Sniper
[sniper]

IBTL - There has been enough mud slung in this thread that all the "Tropicana Girls" could get in a few wrestling matches...

Seriously.  We as firearms owners are going to have a full time job of spin control if we still want to see the AWB sunset.

This "Lone Gunman" and his accomplice was a determined criminal. He took time to plan ahead. -  His modified car made the Police & Press look like raving idiots with their [i]Ghost[/i] white van searches and reports.  He could have chosen almost any firearm and had nearly the same effect.

I know many shooters who could have yielded similar results with scoped pistols...

We have to hammer the fact that there laws didn't, wouldn't and couldn't have stopped this.

Law enforcement didn't catch this guy, a clergyman informed the police of who to look for.

They can try to pass all the badjoke laws they want... It wouldn't have made any difference. You could say God provided the answer where laws failed, don't expect it to happen again.

Bushmaster raised their prices significantly pre-Y2K when it had a waiting list 3-4 months then 5-6 months then you couldn't get one at all before the lights went out on 1/1/00.. Everyone wanted an AR because that's what the "soldiers" carry and they thought they would be able to get ammo from dead soldiers if they needed it...

Bushmaster has chosen to keep their prices up, so I chose to buy RRA, ASA, and OLY stuff... Plus ASA is semi-local for me :)I can build an AR for $500-$600 (Hey, the news WAS correct afterall..lol)

Buy lowers! They're cheap right now..Keep em in your safe..They'll be as good as gold in a few months...You'll always be able to get un-regulated parts....

It won't only be Bushmaster..Wait and see what happens to OLY, DPMS, Colt, ASA, etc... All of em will either take a hit or make some serious bucks...Just like pre-Y2K

Arock is right about the economics of the AWB; it did boost AR sales in the following years, likely bringing in thousands of new enthusiasts who might not have otherwise gotten into the world of the AR15. I think ([b]I HOPE![/b]) what Arock is getting at is that with increased numbers we may eventually be able to turn the tide of the ever encroaching anti-firearms legislation, and all that the government was sucessful in doing was to promote our cause.



However, I side with M4 in this one... Arock, I may have take you the wrong way but you almost sound as if you think that more legislation and restrictions would be a good thing.  By that logic a total and complete ban would have the greatest positive economic impact, right up until the legislation goes through.  Then the whole civilian industry begins to fade away... so what if it got lots of newbies involved at the last minute, what good does it do if all future AR's/AK's/FAL's/etc. are banned?  We all know firearms laws are incredibly hard to repeal, so it's damn near a given that they won't be.  So how can you look at any restrictions as a good thing?  You can see a silver lining, but the laws themselves are awful.

I cannot see where you came up with the idea that we have more choices than we did before the '94 AWB.  I own 4 AR15's and not a damn one of them has a flash hider on it, nor a collapsible stock, yet somehow I "have more options"?   Like M4 posted, I'll never find a decent price on a Sig 552... and if another ban goes through you can bet that we'll be saying that about new AR's.   Have fun tricking out your 10/22's... I bet there'll be a whole lot of new stuff out there for them when they're the last magazine fed semi-auto rifle you're allowed to own (at least till the 2014 ban is enacted).

I don't consider the restriction of my rights a good thing, no matter how it increases participation in the shooting sports.  I guess I just don't see your silver lining.  

I can't believe I'm reading this. [img]http://www.regalweb.co.uk/loony/animated/pc-crash.gif[/img]

Arock: Are you an FFL who has decided that these OUTRAGEOUS & ILLOGICAL bans are benefiting his business in some way? If not how can you say such a thing. It is certainly a SELFISH position to take. If this is as good as it gets then we are going to lose the rest some day as well. Count on it!

Instead of Galils, HK's and FNC's (not to mention un-nuetered kalashnikovs) we get crappy CAI slap-jobs, speshul weapons, and rusted galil part kits from some 3rd world shithole (for $800, without a receiver, maybe missing a few parts, if we're lucky!). But in your mind as long as everyone has a postban bushy we're all fine. [img]http://www.mansun-nl.com/smilies/banghead.gif[/img]

Screw that. The people should have access to Sig 550s, new svd's, or WTF they want at true market prices. If you don't believe that and continue talking about this as if it is some "golden age" then you are a sell-out.



And do you think that's a good thing? WTF! [img]http://www.mansun-nl.com/smilies/mad2.gif[/img] I have a large collection and would be more than happy to see the value of all my prebans drop to the price of a used olympic plinker to abolish these terrible pieces of legislation.

The cigarette industry is on the ropes due to the government, lawyers and special interest groups (plenty of collaborationists in that business too). High prices aren't going to save them in the long run, and they won't save the gun industry from it's enemies either. Our cause is best served by LOW PRICES so that more people can afford MORE GUNS. The antis would love nothing more than for prices to go up, making it into something only the well-off hobbyist would consider getting into.

M4: Exactly right. With friends like these we don't need enemies.

I have to agree with M4.

The only benefit of bans is they may boost sales and manufacturing for a short period of time or provide a small window for dealers to gouge their customers. I wish I had a dollar for every time a local dealer has told me I better buy it now because it won't be available next year. All that based on a bill that may or may not pass. Very often they don't pass.

Furthermore, look at the import bans. They may have boosted sales for some months leading up to the ban, but after the ban those weapons will never be available again. How in the hell does that benefit anyone?

Finally, it depends on the state as well. Perhaps AW94 boosted overall sales. This may be true. But look at California. We had a gigantic boost in sales leading up to the 2000 ban, but then what? The rifles are no longer sold in the state at all! Why would Colt or Bushmaster be happy about that? They may have a great quarter leading up to the ban, but following the ban they lost the ability to sell their rifles to civilians within a state of 34 million people. How in the hell is that good for business?

I would just as soon as not have the value of my Bushmaster DCM go up, all things considered =\

To address the issue of selection and availability there has never been as great a selection of firearms, parts, services and things to do with them as there is right now.  Go back to whatever year you want and compare what was available, including the great milsurp days of the 1950's and 1960's (I remember the $29.95 gun ads in Hot Rod Magazine) and you have to admit we may be in the Golden Years of firearms right now.  When has there ever been the range of different guns we have right now?  Look at the sheer number of firearm manufacturers today.  Where do you think they came from?  Look at the catalog of products each of the manufacturers offers...  Bushmaster, DPMS, Armalite, whoever, not to mention the likes of Remington and Winchester, never has there been the kind of selection we have now.  Where five, ten years ago each of them had a small product offering today they have thick catalogs.  And look at the variety of firearms each of them offers.  Then look at just the number of offerings in the "Black Rifle" category.  Hell that category didn't even exist in the civilian market till the government got stupid and clumsy.

What the government did by restricting cosmetic features was ignite the fire of civilian ownership.  You can still get virtually every one of those pre-ban firearms today as prior to the bans but then look at how much more selection there is now on top of the pre-ban stuff.  And pre-ban products to me aren't worth the market premium they command.  That's all hoopla and stupid consumers.  But if you want it it's still available.  Just like cars there's Chevy's and there's Mercedes.  You can pay for what you want.  I drive cheap.

Now I would dearly LOVE to have some of the foreign stuff that's not as available to us today.  But that wasn't available before the bans either.  And you can buy all the same functionality the foreign stuff has from American manufacturers and what's wrong with that.  Just like cars again, there's ultra high-end stuff out there for fools with more money than brains.

Full-auto is the same.  The market for full-auto was vestigial ten years ago.  And now look at demand for full-auto products, selection available and places to buy them.  There was nothing like that ten - fifteen years ago.  Sure a FEW folks had them but there was essentially NO demand before the government stepped in and created the market.

More...

Then look at what drove the market to create the great breadth of product we have today.  Customers.  More customers.  And where did those customers come from?  For large part they came from things the government did to try to restrict the firearms marketplace.  And for the Black Rifle market the customers virtually ALL the customers came from what the government is doing.  All the new money circulating in and driving the firearms marketplace came from those customer's pockets.

It's called The Law of Unintended Consequences.

If you want to make highways safer you don't put big bumpers on cars, you put a sword in the steering column.  If you want to restrict possession of firearms you don't do it by requiring different baubles on the end of barrels.  That just makes people want pre-bauble barrels.  And the ruckus causes more people to want any barrel at all.

I don't like the idea of any bans at all.  All the usual disclaimers about felons, the mentally defective etc apply.  But I don't like restrictions on 2A or RKBA.  That being said I'm also smart enough to realize many people are smart enough to drive around obstacles in the road.  Even obstacles the government provides.

But I'm smart enough to get my head up and see a larger picture.  How many more people will become aware or our rifles because of the Ambush Killer and the media?  The obvious answer is Millions of people.  Some of those newbies will be anti's.  And some will have a new Bushmaster rifle for Christmas.

Now none of us on this board rushed to visit BM's website when the announcement came out yesterday.  But some people did.  As we read BM's website was flooded.  It doesn't take Miss Cleo to understand some of that traffic will turn into dollars.  For BM, Armalite, DPMS or any of the others.  And those will for the most part be new dollars coming into our sport.  And new owners to find their way to this site.

The original subject of this thread is the effect the Ambush Killer had on Bushmaster's website.  And the effect remains the same.  In spite of the sorrow and despair over the victims the net effect for BM WILL be positive.