From the front page of [url]http://www.abcnews.go.com/[/url]:



Isn't it illegal for LEOs to access those records?

[b]Edit:[/b] They've now removed the byline above from the front page and moved it to this one: [url]http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/sniperattacks_subindex.html[/url]

[b]Edit 2:[/b]  That particular byline is now gone altogether.  Draw your own conclusions.

-kill-9

They're desperate now.  They will do anything legal or illegal at this point.  How can they continue to justify their huge budgets if they can't solve this most important case?  Kind of reminds me of how badly the FBI took a shellacking after the Lindberg baby kidnapping.

So much for "no gun registration" and "we don't keep the background check records."

If this is allowed, we might as well get ready for the long ride down the slippery slope.

They can't do this without a court order to EACH FFL dealer...WAIT A MINUTE HERE! We have a pro-2nd Amendment Attorney General running the show...oops, I forgot that he believes in "reasonable restrictions on the posession firearms particularly suited to criminal misuse." How do you all in the beltway like being part of another Operation Forward Trace? HAHAHA! And no one believed that I saw this the CBS news last week.

I am reasonably certain ATF can search thru the "yellow forms" anytime they want.  Wouldn't be much point in filling them out if they couldn't.  Do you think the dealer needs that info?

Yes, they are probably getting desparate.  I would be surprised if they turned up anything but who knows?

When BATF inspects an FFL for compliance, they always go through the yellows.  However, I don't know what, if any, information they record.

Ya didn't think we filled out that paperwork for nuthin' did ya?

[grenade]

Scott

I walked into a shop one day, a bunch of suits in there, had a neat little tripod and digital camera, laying forms out 3 at a time and copying the top half. I guess they can record what they want!

Another reason to start using [url]www.the56.com[/url] for private sales.

Guess the shooter's using one these from their POS webpage:

[img]http://media.abcnews.com/media/FrontPage/images/weapons_021017_fp3.jpg[/img]



Whatever fuckfaces.  Guess bolt actions have already been ruled out.

When's that giant meteorite gonna smash the shit out of this planet again?  I welcome it, then civilization can start all over again.  This time try not to fuck it up.

How long do the 4473's have to be kept by FFL's and what happens to them afterward? Why don't they destroy the forms after a buyer passes the NICS? I'm not an FFL so I don't know the legal requirements for handling and storing the NICS forms.

The 4473's have to be kept by the dealer so long as he is in business. There is no "expiration" on them.  If the dealer goes out of business, the 4473's ARE TURNED OVER TO BATF.

Understand; these forms were created to help law enforcment find out who purchased guns that had been recovered from the scene of a crime.  They are supposed to start w/ the manufacturer (or imoporter), and find out what distributor the gun went to.  The distributor then is contacted to find out what dealer got the gun. Finally the dealer is contacted, and thru the 4473, they are able (supposedly) to determine which John Q Citizen acquired the piece.

The 4473s were never intended to be used as a way to find out how many or who had bought a given type of weapon.  If the feds are in fact doing that now, they are wasting huge amounts of person hours (and our tax money) in what will almost certainly be a fruitless search.

If, however, the shooter drops his weapon, and it should be recovered by law enforcement, then the 4473 covering the original sale might be a help in tracing the chain of ownership from the point of original sale.  That's the ONLY thing those forms are good for.  
The fact that the forms are now being searched in the way that they are is a strong indication of just how desperate the law enforcement people are.  Does the phrase "looking for a needle in a haystack" ring a bell? [:D]

20 years after a transaction is made.

[url]http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#p45[/url]

ATF doesn't need a warrant to look through 4473's.

But they do need a warrant to go to a LAGO and demand to see a weapon.

When I first heard the lawdogs were beginning to snoop into the lives of law-abiding gun owners, and were knocking on doors in our area, I called my missus yesterday and reminded her about what to do if they show up on our front porch.

1.  Don't open the door until you are satisfied as to their ID and that they pose no threat to you and the babies.

2.  Demand to see ID and badges.  Note names and numbers.

3.  Deny entry unless presented with a properly executed warrant.

4.  Refuse to answer any questions concerning our firearms, even if presented with known facts by the lawdogs.

5.  Deny them access to any room, space, closet, basement, or any other part of the house and grounds not properly identified in the warrant.  Whenever presented with a question such as; "Do you mind if we come in and look around?", the answer is an emphatic "NO, you may NOT!"  If they are THAT interested, they will get a duly prepared warrant.

6.  If handed a correct warrant, then by all means, let them in and be polite; we have nothing to hide.  When the lawdogs find the gun safes, remind them that you do not have the combinations nor keys, and that they can (1) wait until I get home from work or, (2) come back another day.

Don't get me wrong, I want to help and I want these guys caught.  I don't think rousting innocent Americans is the way to catch the shooter[s].

Keystone Kops...that's what we got now.

The copies of the 4473 do not belong to the FFL. holder. They are the property of the Treasury Department. If you have an FFL you are required to record and maintain the 4473's for the Govt. Being the property of the Treasury Department, they can be inspected by agents anytime. Don't want to keep records for the Govt.? Don't get an FFL.