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Posted: 10/16/2002 10:32:25 PM EDT
[#1]
Most likely, Joe Citizen would bag the wrong guy and end up shooting some poor soul.
Think I am wrong? Here in Phoenix (actually it was Mesa) we had some asshole blow away a Sikh right after 9-11 because he was a true American patriot and the Sikh was wearing a turban. Problem is Sikhs are not muslim and are the sworn enemy of Islam. |
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Posted: 10/16/2002 10:34:57 PM EDT
[#2]
Even if Joe 12-pack got the sniper, he'd be crucified. Especially if got him in MD.
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Posted: 10/16/2002 10:39:21 PM EDT
[#3]
Joe Citizen would probably be charged with assault with a deadly weapons and investigated for other violations.
It's 2002, the Lone Ranger would be up on charges of vigilantism and exploting Native Americans. |
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Posted: 10/16/2002 11:18:02 PM EDT
[#4]
Well if Joe 12-pack gets him, I pray its before he shoots someone else!!!
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Posted: 10/17/2002 5:46:40 AM EDT
[#5]
Personally, I think that would be perfect...
"Joe Citizen bags sniper with his CCW just before he strikes again" There has been so much media coverage on this that any court system wouldn't dare think of charging the guy with anything but the key to the city. We could only hope... |
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Posted: 10/17/2002 5:51:51 AM EDT
[#6]
Dallas area a while back had a chase going.. lasted for quit a while... "Joe" decided the public had been in danger long enounh and rammed the guy with his truck.. effectivly ending the prusuit as well as the danger to the public..
Well "Mr Citizen" had charges of "Interfering with a police prosuit" layed on him.. the Dallas PD spokes woman was actually apualled |
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Posted: 10/17/2002 6:07:28 AM EDT
[#7]
If it was a righteous shoot, then the press would report it as "Joe Citizen Catches Sniper", with little to no mention of the fact that he legally used a gun to do it.
They did the same thing here in southwest Virginia when the guy who started shooting people at a law school was apprehended by another student. The student had gone to his car and retrieved his pistol. He held the shooter at gunpoint, disarmed him and detained him until the police finally showed up. None of the local newspaper or Tv coverage (or national coverage for that matter) bothered to mention that the student used a gun, only that he "disarmed" the shooter. |
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Posted: 10/17/2002 6:30:25 AM EDT
[#8]
If in VA....
You have to demonstrate that you had no escape, or felt that by escaping other lives would be in jeopardy. The person has to have the means (AK-74), will (has just shot someone or is in position to), and if your actions are to do nothing than someone will suffer a life ending or other severe injury. I think as long as you kill him and he can't tell his side and all the above are true, they would have a tough time charging you. You might still face a "discharging a firearm" charge, but it would likely get dismissed in light of all the media coverage. My worry is, is that if it were me shooting I'd be aiming at his body......what if he has a vest on? My .40's aren't going through it. A head shot with a pistol is a little more challenging. I'm hoping they catch him at home while he's sleeping or something, so none of us have to find out. Ed |
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Posted: 10/17/2002 6:32:32 AM EDT
[#9]
Im sending him (or her) a cigar with a "Good Job" either way.... [:)]
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Posted: 10/17/2002 6:42:19 AM EDT
[#10]
I am Joe Citizen. I've got my notepad close and my SIG closer. Wish us luck.
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Posted: 10/17/2002 7:12:42 AM EDT
[#11]
I don't think Clint Smith would approve of a plan to take on a guy you know or suspect to have a rifle with ANY kind of pistol.
One of the sayings I heard attributed to Clint is that a pistol is what you use to get to a real gun. In the highly unlikely event this guy were to screw up in sight/earshot of a member of this board, I'd hope they made prudent preparations and have access to a real gun. |
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Posted: 10/17/2002 7:18:19 AM EDT
[#12]
I might have to carry the Marlin 444P around then. Unloaded of course......
Wonder if I should get some Buffalo Bore 335gr? Definite day ruiner for the perp......... |
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Posted: 10/17/2002 7:52:37 AM EDT
[#13]
Of course, it would be rather foolish to take on a team of well-armed terrorists with only a CCW. That's what the notebook's for (not to mention a friend, a fast car, and some race training [;)])
However, I think if any of us happened to catch some loser taking pot shots from behind a van, well...Lights out - as long as you don't endanger anyone else. |
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Posted: 10/17/2002 7:54:22 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: If in VA.... You have to demonstrate that you had no escape, or felt that by escaping other lives would be in jeopardy. Actually, I believe in VA there is no "duty to retreat". We should dig on this a little deeper to confirm. |
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Posted: 10/17/2002 8:09:27 AM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: Quoted: If in VA.... You have to demonstrate that you had no escape, or felt that by escaping other lives would be in jeopardy. Actually, I believe in VA there is no "duty to retreat". We should dig on this a little deeper to confirm. Yes, I'd like to know as well. My thoughts as I drove in to work today centered on the husband of the FBI agent murdered Monday night. What the hell was -HE- doing? 'Ethyl, quit taking so long to unload that stuff and get in the damn car! I want my damn dinner!' I would hope that my spouse would get out of the car, vent every solid projectile available in the direction of the assailant. (if legal and safe to bystanders) and THEN mourn my death. Wish I hadn't missed that Personal Protection course last weekend. [:(] --LS |
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Posted: 10/17/2002 8:28:37 AM EDT
[#16]
It'll be OK as long as he (Joe 12 pack) yells, real loud, "He's comin' right at me" then de-brain the mother fucker.
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Posted: 10/17/2002 8:31:34 AM EDT
[#17]
even if he kills/shoots the sniper he'll have to defend himself through a flurry of lawsuits
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Posted: 10/17/2002 8:39:49 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: Dallas area a while back had a chase going.. lasted for quit a while... "Joe" decided the public had been in danger long enounh and rammed the guy with his truck.. effectivly ending the prusuit as well as the danger to the public.. Well "Mr Citizen" had charges of "Interfering with a police prosuit" layed on him.. the Dallas PD spokes woman was actually apualled Oh man Dallas cops are some funny shit. Earlier this year a serial rapist was making DPD look like the fools they are... so a citizen finally gets his hands on the rapist, whips his ass in the street and holds him for the po-po's. DPD arrives along with numerous media, the newsies give the real hero about five seconds before the cops almost come to blows trying to shove each other out of the way to get on camera and claim credit. And yesterday one of the "confidential informants" so loved by DPD finally admitted under sworn testimony he and his cop friends planted evidence and lied about innocent citizens to increase their reward money take to $250,000 last year alone. Yeah you gotta love those Dallass cops. |
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Posted: 10/17/2002 9:26:19 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted: My thoughts as I drove in to work today centered on the husband of the FBI agent murdered Monday night. What the hell was -HE- doing Linda Franklin was not an agent, she was an analyst - the FBI's version of a librarian essentially. She was almost certainly unarmed. As are almost all the unfortunate folks who live in that area. |
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Posted: 10/17/2002 9:31:21 AM EDT
[#20]
In the People's Republic of Maryland, Joe CCW will probably be charged with murder. He'll be sued by the sniper's family.
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Posted: 10/17/2002 9:41:18 AM EDT
[#21]
I think if someone was standing in a parking lot with a rifle shooting / killing people a good case could be made that you are in mortal danger and that any movement (including retreat) could be seen by the perp, who could then fire upon you.
If all I had was a pistol I would not want to engage a perp with a rifle, but if he continued to fire at people I'd feel compelled to attempt to stop him, by deadly force. Of course the cops would never condone the action and I'd probably get lawsuits from the perps family...no good way out of that situation.... |
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Posted: 10/17/2002 9:45:34 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted: It'll be OK as long as he (Joe 12 pack) yells, real loud, "He's comin' right at me" then de-brain the mother fucker. HAHAHAHAH! |
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Posted: 10/17/2002 9:48:17 AM EDT
[#23]
I would bet one of my favorite rifles that any civilian shooter who took out the person or persons identified as the sniper would face a ticker-tape parade, rather than charges.
Doesn't matter if it is the unfree state of MD, the Commonwealth of VA or even handgun-free DC. Now of coruse, the very next day an old lady could use a gun to fight off a rapist an the folks in MD would probably put her throguh the ringer. But this situation is different. Of course, you migth run a foul of MD governor's recent ban on discharge of a firearm... |
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Posted: 10/17/2002 9:53:20 AM EDT
[#24]
Quoted: Quoted: If in VA.... You have to demonstrate that you had no escape, or felt that by escaping other lives would be in jeopardy. Actually, I believe in VA there is no "duty to retreat". We should dig on this a little deeper to confirm. I'll look at home. There was a recent summary of self-defense case law in VA published in the Virginia Shooting Sports Association newsletter. As I remember there was no requirement to retreat for Justifiable Homicide but you had to have done NOTHING to exacerbate the situation. Pulling out a long gun, moving to covered postion and shooting back, might be seen as electing to participate in combat. That said, I'd say it's highly unlikely any prosecutor in the area would be willing to prosecute Joe six-pack after he successfully took down this backshooter. |
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Posted: 10/17/2002 10:26:29 AM EDT
[#25]
Keep them loaded brothers! My wife and I went to dinner last night and Mr. Colt was watching my back. The hair on the back of my head was bugging the crap out of me!
What ever you choose to carry just be sure it is not a long gun! You could spend a good amount of time answering to the man if they decide to check you out. Incase the perp. is wearing armor I suggest breaking out the box of Black Tip +P+ "Evil" stuff and as someone else said cell phone, pen paper, and camera. No one knows where he will be next. Samuel |
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Posted: 10/17/2002 10:43:40 AM EDT
[#26]
I was thinking along the 'no way is a citizen (or a normal, pistol wielding cop) going to have a chance here' lines untill the last incedent... That the sniper was too good to be seen shooting.
Well, someone saw him well enough to guess what gun he had... This means they had to be relatively close, maybe not close enough to make a kill-shot with a full-size pistol, but enough to rattle his cage a little... That got me thinking... What if this guy had been armed and had returned fire... He may have missed by a few feet, but the sniper probably would have known that he was taking fire and may have stopped to shoot back (thus keeping him there longer and showing more of the (now alerted) public where he was), gotten sloppy bugging out, or taken some damage to his vehicle (A white van with a .45 bullet hole or two in it might be suspicious at one of those checkpoints)... Still, the odds are against this... That the guy would be armed, that the gun would be accurate enough (i.e. not a sub-compact in .32 ACP), that he would be a good enough shot, and that he was close enough to do damage... |
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Posted: 10/17/2002 2:07:37 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: I might have to carry the Marlin 444P around then. Unloaded of course...... Wonder if I should get some Buffalo Bore 335gr? Definite day ruiner for the perp......... You need to move up to a real man's gun, the 1895G [:D] I think the 45/70 was designed to kill a horse out to 400 yards or so, that should do the trick vest or no vest. How about one of those garrett 540 grain flat nose at 1550fps. Yep, that is what I call sniper therapy. |
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Posted: 10/17/2002 2:34:51 PM EDT
[#28]
LOL, you guys are actually assuming that it would make the news? Even if the situation went down perfect (Joe citizen takes down the sniper with no other casualties) they would still give the credit to MoOsE and his band of loyal idiots.
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Posted: 10/17/2002 2:52:38 PM EDT
[#29]
Just bust a cap on the sniper and let whoever have the fame, you won't have to worry about anything if you do it righteous. Meaning no one else is hurt/killed by you, Good Samaritan. You better be sure he is the one though.
My opinion only. MM419 |
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Posted: 10/17/2002 4:49:01 PM EDT
[#30]
Posted by Darin_Marple "I think the 45/70 was designed to kill a horse out to 400 yards or so, that should do the trick vest or no vest. How about one of those garrett 540 grain flat nose at 1550fps. Yep, that is what I call sniper therapy." I like your way of thinking! |
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Posted: 10/17/2002 6:08:46 PM EDT
[#31]
After 16 days living 'under the gun,' I could care less at this point about media coverage, who takes the credit, or even being sued by the sniper's family for splattering his brains all over his tan frickin' van.
If I should be so lucky as to positively ID the perp, get a clean shot and not endanger innocents, I'll take the risk. Even if it should cost my life. It's like old Spock says, "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one." Of course, I'm not plannin' on dyin' either. Is this scenario likely? Heck no. Especially since I'm of the opinion that these are the acts of foreign terrorists (meaning I'll most likely be hittin' the deck and taking notes like everyone else). I'm no hero, just really pissed off at what I feel is 'an attack on our way of life.' |
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Posted: 10/17/2002 6:43:21 PM EDT
[#32]
I bet someone would get the whole thing on tape!
"Joe" would surely do something "wrong" and the whole world would have front row seats! |
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Posted: 10/17/2002 6:56:54 PM EDT
[#33]
Whatever, so long as he's waxed with extreme prejudice. I don't care if it's Joe 12-pack 'cappin' his ass with a 9mm or an old wrinkly Italian swearin' Grandma splitting his head open with her cane.
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Posted: 10/17/2002 7:00:17 PM EDT
[#34]
The proper authorities*** have the situation under control.....they only NEED your tips.
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Posted: 10/17/2002 7:24:41 PM EDT
[#35]
Quoted: I bet someone would get the whole thing on tape! "Joe" would surely do something "wrong" and the whole world would have front row seats! You better belive that! it would go something like this; "The sniper was shot and killed while reloading with his back turned". Joe Sixpack shot the sniper 15 times killing him and the sniper did not even have a loaded gun. Was this type of violence really necessary? How did Joe Sixpack gain access to Law Enforcement type magazines? Police Chief Moose is checking into Joe Sixpac's background for any type of criminal records. He has found that Joe Sixpack recently went through a divorce and was subjected to a restraining order. He is now behind bars for a felony possession of a firearm and murder. Sorry guys I have just seen this type of crap happen before. I would not want to be Joe Sixpack but I would not turn and run away if I were thrown into his spot. Samuel |
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Posted: 10/17/2002 8:06:53 PM EDT
[#36]
You can be certain the media would screw it up. Ditto for the cops.
That being said and knowing the risks, how many of you would NOT shoot this creep until your mag well was dry? Hell, I'm 52 and won't live forever. Seeing a creep murdering people would make it a good day to die - for one of us. Get used to it folks, the terrorists are here and will be spreading out to other areas. |
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Posted: 10/17/2002 8:12:36 PM EDT
[#37]
Q. What if "Joe Citizen" with CCW catches/kills the sniper?
A. We'll kick his ass and turn his misery over to the law. |
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Posted: 10/17/2002 9:04:21 PM EDT
[#38]
Cliche' Be judged by 12 or carried by 6.
The shooter has no family. He(she) is from hell, and should return post haste. I am totally amazed that this person could slip through the cities totally undetected. I wonder if the shooter wants an ending like enemy at the gates? |
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