Banned?  By whom?

FIGHT!

I would fight, adn if I had not yet received my US citizenship, I would still fight...



[50]

So ColonelKlink, you'd give up "assault weapons" and fight back when you/we would have only .410s and .22 rimfires?
I'm not turning in or destroying any of my weapons, EVER!!

TS  [X]

rguns out (jus kiddin)

[soapbox]
Regardless of what we say we would do or like to do, or even think what we ought to do, major fighting will never happen for one reason.  WE are letting the government[b]s[/b] draw the line in the sand ever closer to us with little or no resistance.  Sure we talk, some holler, but whose bones does that break?  As long as THEY are in control of the line drawing and have the patience, THEY will win.

Face it.  If you aren't willing to be a member of Bowman's Brigade, you may as well move to England, Australia, China, etc. & get it over with.  

No one wants to break the "law of the land" but to ensure you, your children, & grandchildren don't become totally enslaved, that's what each and everyone of us is going to have to do eventually.  You can't say "when they start confiscation da dada dada..."  That'll never happen if there's never any physical resistance.  Your freedom, what little is left, will be legislated away along with your RKBA.

THEY can and will get us one or two or half a dozen at a time if we step outside [b]their[/b] "boundaries".  On occasion, they will massacre a larger & larger number to "test our resolve".  So far we have proven weak.  It's pitiful to think a group of misguided Texas Christians have proved stronger than we.

If you aren't afraid of "the doors crashing in and the flash grenades coming through the windows at 3:00 in the morning", you aren't doing enough.  If you are but you aren't planning on fighting back, you still aren't doing enough.

Every one of us that posts on this board knows where we are headed.  The brave will pull off one of the two catchers mitts they are wearing and start throwing back.  The true patriots will pull them both off, endure the pain, and make the ultimate sacrifice when the time comes.  Are [b]you[/b] going to just sit back and be one of those loud mouth spectator/coaches or do you plan to win?

How to start:
(1) Make the committment - to spend at least 25% of your income on preserving you RKBA.
(2) Don't be afraid to express your opinion to the point of pissing people off.
(3) Pray that you'll be ready for the flashpoint AND that it will come (because if it doesn't we will absolutely lose.

And in case you're wondering - hell yeah I'm scared...but I'm prepared to fight.

Ya i hear alot of hard talk.I am not impressed with these militia guys.Yapp,Yapp,Yapp if they were more bite than bark i might take them more seriously.

And as far as the rest of us are concerned we are not much better.
What is gonna be the "Straw that broke the Camels back"?

We had Ruby Ridge,Waco,the Assault weapons Ban,the IRS and many more countless intrusions.I don't think our forefathers would have taken any of these intrusions?They made war over a Tea Tax.

We did peaceably remove the transgressors once in the 90's when the Republicans swept the House and Senate and what did we get for it?The Republicans decided to sell our sovreignty to the highest bidder aka the WTO,NAFTA,the World Bank and so on.

As far fighting the,"Powers That Be",is concerned,when and a Big IF this happens,I'm not scared.I know i wont be testing my strength against the transgressors they will send misguided men of my own stripe to fight in their stead.

Do we really even have a choice?

If not when the government comes for our weapons, then when?

When they come for our wives and daughters?

Yeah, and without any weapons, how would you prevent [u]that[/u]?

Eric The(Faithful)Hun[>]:)]

Although I would be sad, and would 'fight' in court or support those that did, the law is the will of our neighbors and fellow americans and I could not even dream of fighting the good men and women who are agents of the BATF and the FBI teams who would carry out the will of the people.

By the time your lawsuit made it to trial, your weapons, or at least large chunks of them, would be part of a landfill outside of Washington, DC.

I think the legal term for that is [b]'moot'![/b]

Yes, that's correct, your RKBA would be [b]moot[/b]!

Eric The(Impatient)Hun[>]:)]

[b]But WHO comes for our weapons.  Makes a difference.[/b]  To me.

If the appropriate law was passed and there appeared at my door an earnest and embarrassed regular Army sergeant, accompanied by some fresh second Lt., I can think of damned few scenarios where I would be able to forcefully resist.

I posted a similar question not so long ago. [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=141754[/url]

USPC40


[img]www.ar15.com/members/albums/USPC40/line.gif[/img]
[url=www.nra.org][b][red]NRA[/red][/url] [url=www.nra.org][blue]Life Member[/blue][/url]
[url=www.gunowners.org][b][red]GOA[/red] [/url] [url=www.gunowners.org][blue]Life Member[/blue][/url]
[url=www.saf.org][red]SAF[/red][/url] [url=www.saf.org][blue]Supporter[/blue][/url]
[url=sas-aim.org][red]SAS[/red][/url] [url=sas-aim.org][blue]Supporter[/blue][/b][/url]

[img]www.ar15.com/members/albums/USPC40/alabamaflag.gif[/img]

Post from 5subslr5 -

No problem, [b]subsailor[/b], I would cut the two in half from the rear. [b]No[/b] warning. [b]No[/b] quarter.

No sense in getting these cute, earnest, but horrbily misguided, youngsters' blood on your hands.

[b]I'd be perfectly willing to do it.[/b]

If they are coming for your weapons, [b]subdude[/b], have they not [u]already[/u] violated their military oaths to defend the United States Constitution against all enemies foreign and [u]domestic[/u].

Let's see how that goes...

[b][i]Title 10 United States Code.

Sec. 502. - Enlistment oath: who may administer

Each person enlisting in an armed force shall take the following oath: ''I, _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

This oath may be taken before any commissioned officer of any armed force.[/i][/b]

[b]So fire away![/b] Don't let their uniforms fool you, they are [b]Nazis[/b], just as much as any of the [b]Nazis[/b] our fathers fought in Europe!

Sorry. But true.

Eric The(HonestToGod)Hun[>]:)]

Understand no flame.

Probably a character flaw but I simply cannot envision firing on a member of the U.S. military.

[b]Now I could kill Arafat, Saddam and Sharon in one afternoon and enjoy a nice prok roast for dinner !![/b]

Remember from the 2000 elections that about half the people who voted were liberals.  They would gladly surrender their guns if they had any.

Of course those 50 million morons are only 1/6 of the population.

Of the remaining population I would guess that most of the serious gun owners (about 3-5 million) would hide their weapons.  Of course, like anything stored over time, the guns and ammo would deteriorate and be unreliable, not to mention the skills to use them.

I would suspect the active resistance would be in the few thousand count.  Unless they had strong leadership that could rally the general populace they would loose over time.  Remember they would be up against a well armed police and military with automatic weapons and high capacity magazines.  Not to mention high tech search and destroy equipment.  

Most people wouldn't fight.  They would loose their comfortable lifestyles.  Case in point, California.  Why didn't the good people of California storm the State government and throw the assholes out when they passed the stupid gun laws?  Because they didn't think it would be worth getting in trouble for.

The only way we are going to win in the long run is take back of government.  I don't think most people have the guts to do it.  

The realization, that mass firearms confiscation, would be no cake walk, must be firmly impressed, into the minds of both Law enforcement and the military.

While many in the military and law enforcement would refuse, resign or actively resist such a confiscation order, there exists a small core of individuals, who would go along with and attempt such an act. The only message such men would understand, is the message of fear, of the consequences of those actions, to their personal safety.

The tired excuse, That "I'm just a poor tool of the military or the state, forced to act against American citizens, so I can keep my pretty Law Enforcement uniform or military benefits." Does not wash and will not protect those who choose to participate in a clearly illegal act.

At the opening, of The American Civil War, Just after the South fired on Fort Sumpter, came a day, when cadets and officers of our nations Military Academies were asked which side of the coming conflict they would support and fight for. The men who would become the officers of the Army of the Confederacy, stepped out of the line, formed a column in good order and marched out the gates and into the annuals of American History.

In the event of an attempt by the government to overturn the Second Amendment to our Constitution. I would suggest that the members of Law Enforcement and the Military, Make that choice again, Take three steps forward, turn to the right and march out the damned gate.

Simply put, I believe gun owners have a PR problem.  For us, it may be about abstract notions of the RKBA, the Constitution, the right to self-defense, freedom, etc.  For everybody else, it's about the perception that guns are dangerous and are not only unecessary, but cause alot of problems in today's world.

Until we effectively address this perception, we'll lose the battle.  

The average person doesn't want to "deprive us of our liberty" or remove the means to "protect ourselves from tyranny" as much as they want to stop the accidental and/or deliberate violence and destruction they hear about or see on a daily basis in the media.  That would be both the real damage reported in the news, or the thousands of daily incidents portrayed in entertainment.

Most people don't think in terms of abstractions, just the every day realities they see on TV or read about in the paper.  I think it's only gun owners that seem to address the problems in those terms, and we're (mostly) preaching to the choir.  And that's part of the problem as I see it.

400 views of the post and only 50 votes! That sounds about right!

After October 1, there will be no reason for anyone to have guns as USNORTHCOM will be activated. Law enforcement along with Homeland Defense will have the tools necessary to protect our freedoms in this democracy.

Exactly. Confiscating civilian weapons IS breaking the Law.  Therefore it is a citizens duty to defend him/herself against the lawless.  Unfortunately, more taxing and outlawing of weapons/ammo is happening rather than "door to door" confiscation.  It's a subtle approach, and a majority of gun owners are blind to it.  By the time they get to the "door to door" method there will be [i]very few of us[/i] with the means to resist.

[img]www.ar15.com/members/albums/Max%5FPower%2Fgun%2Ejpg[/img]

just kidding... of course I'd turn them in right away.  I wouldn't want to be a criminal.
[>:/]

Hey, MAX...put a trigger lock on that thing!

There isn't one member of this site who has the testicular fortitude to fight for anything!

Thanks for your input, [b]markm[/b], but the only member of this Board of whom you have sufficient knowledge to make such a statement is you.

So, is that [u]your[/u] assessment of [u]your[/u] own 'testicular fortitude'?

Eric The(Hmm?)Hun[>]:)]

If I fired the first shot, would you be watching my six???

I would! Let's roll!

Hun, YES!

Boom, YES!

That isn't true. There are many who would fight for another country.

Brog, Double YES!  Free Tibet!

Yes, [b]Imbroglio[/b], you are correct, but as [b]Nazi Germany[/b] is [u]no[/u] longer a country, those who would fight on its behalf will have to continue to be bitterly disappointed!

Eric The(Zionist)Hun[>]:)]

Is he calling us Nazi sympathizers?

Sounds like a situation encountered by my grandmother.  A Russian army lieutenant was telling her how they were her liberators (this was in Hungary), and they had nothing to fear and all would be well.  "We will take care of you."  Meanwhile, his sergeant and a couple of privates were driving the little livestock my grandparents had out to the communal collection point.

Oh, of course this was the enemy, and the glorious Russians were the friends of the Americans.

I'd go along with Eric.  Cut the scumbags down.  Of course, the Hungarians were silly enough, or just old fashioned enough, to believe that they could lay down their arms at the end of the war and it was all over.  Of course the politicians, especially Stalin (of the glorious alliance) and Rooseveltski (the best friend the Russians ever had) had other plans for Europe.  But, there's another lesson in there, too, isn't there?

markm,

  Speak for yourself! Don't lump or categorize everyone together. While SHTF is am option it should be used as a last resort. If we concentrated MORE on voting politicians either In or OUT of office we might be better served. Its a damn shame that the gun community doesn't or can't pull together. It has been pointed out NUMEROUS TIMES how big this community is. There is a COMMON GOAL but apparently few see or understand it!
  What will it take to solidify US? Another WACO or RUBY RIDGE perhaps!! I know that for the most part I'm speaking to the choir. WE(YES,WE)must EDUCATE and MOTIVATE if WE are going to be SUCESSFUL! I try to EDUCATE everyone I MEET about firearms and safety in order to dispel the myth of GUNOWNERS=GUN NUTS!
 IF WE get on the BALL NOW,WE DO HAVE A CHANCE but WE CANNOT BE COMPLACENT! Too many times I have heard it with my own ears the BS lines, "Oh,I sure someone will vote for it",or, "Well it doesn't concern me"! IF each one of "US" can re-educate and get one,JUST ONE more in favor of our cause (AND VOTING)WE HAVE A CHANCE!
  I agree that NRA membership isn't enough! Their priorities aren't necessarily OURS in the realm of gun ownership. Tomorrow morning(Monday),I will be in touch with the GOP nominee(HQ) for Governor in Maryland,and volunteer my time to help. I will do what I can!

  I realize that this is off the topic a bit and I DO APOLOGIZE!

  I do hope that a SHTF scenario doesn't happen,but if it does I WILL FIGHT! I WILL NOT SURRENDER MYSELF OR WEAPONS!!


If something is worth having,then its worth FIGHTING FOR!

On other thing to mrntion THAT IS PERTINENT TO THIS POST....

"UNITED WE STAND-OR DIVIDED WE FALL"!!! Your Choice!

"Quoted:
There isn't one member of this site who has the testicular fortitude to fight for anything"

I already did a year in Vietnam. I'll fight and I'll cover your ass. Any SOB who is willing to come into our homes and take away our weapons needs an attitude re-adjustment anyways.

A couple of things said in this thread concern me greatly.  

First the idea that the 'law' is the will of our neighbors & fellow americans coupled with LE & Homeland Defense having the tools to protect our democracy.  There's a real problem here.  If you think we are supposed to have a democracy here, you're dead wrong.  Say the Pledge of Allegiance (while it's still Constitutional) and listen to the words.  Read the Constitution for understanding.  We are suppose to have a [b]REPUBLIC[/b] here.  That means the governments (ALL OF THEM) stay the hell out of people's lives unless they are infringing on the rights of other.  I don't want a democracy where the majority rules - a democracy is like four wolves and a sheep sitting down to discuss what's for dinner - and my Constitution says I don't have one.  If the law of the land says it does, then it's wrong, so are those that passed it, those that try to enforce it, those that prosecute violations, AND [u]THOSE who voluntarily live by it[/u].  Remember [b]that[/b] every time you sense that your Constitutional rights are being violated.

(2) Firing on a member of the US military?  What if they're violating the Constitution;  not the "democratic law of the land", mind you?

Don't think it will come to that?  Then why was there a poll of one specific military group asking if they would fire on US citizens if they met resistance during a gun confiscation scenario?  It's happened before - read about it in "Lethal Laws" [url]http://www.jpfo.org/L-laws.htm[/url].  Why do I think it IS going to happen here - how about GCA '68 - read about its NAZI connection at [url]http://www.jpfo.org/GCA_68.htm[/url].

If you're not going to fight, how you gonna feel about those that do?  They, like the military, are going to give their lives fighting for [b]your[/b] freedom.  Is OUR freedom worth me giving my life over? IMO - YES.  Why won't you do the same for us?

Look, Geniuses.

The statement I made is a sarcastic joke!

Stop writing essays because you will receive no college credit!

The biggest problem we face is the "house to house " aspect of any confiscation scenario. What needs to happen is what happened when Rev. war started-everyone got together in one place and said "you want 'em? come get 'em". They can take us individually, but not enmass. If a confiscation law is passed, we need to get together and tell "them" to put up or shut up. Maybe it should happen before then...

Nick (who voted stand and fight)

In the land where TV rules supreme, this thread, and almost every "SHTF" thread is a fantasy.  It may be fun to discuss, but it' irrelevant to the real reasons we're losing this battle.

I highly doubt there will be any last-stand, face-to-face confrontation with you and the JBTs, though I guess it's more interesting to think otherwise.  

Lawyers, legislators, and their constituencies are a thousand times more dangerous than any ninja-clad SWAT team.  

Hi Mark, what do you think this is? Cigar Family?

We frogs are going to cook and so are our little tadpoles - all because [b]we[/b]'re afraid to turn up the heat.  THEY never will because that's the only way THEY can win - a slow boil.

If we turn up they heat on the other hand, THEY stand a small chance of losing.

It's not like you're going to die - the choices are prison, mental institution, or heaven.  Which would you rather have?  Of course, if you've opted for the 2nd option to the third one above, that's your problem entirely.

You hit it on the head!

There will be these stupid lawyers writing laws.  Their ex-law partner legislator will past the law and we will all be fucked.

They will not come around and confiscate the guns.  The laws will be on the books and if you get caught with one you will be in trouble and it will be taken away.  Can you imagine how many wives would be pleading with their husbands to turn them in lest he get caught and go to jail and lose his job?  The Sergeant and LT mentioned above will never have to come to your house.  After a while the guns will cease to be part of the American freedom.  Meanwhile there will never have been a shot fired.

Yes he is.

Do I have time to get a baby sitter first? Should I toss the 3 year old an Uzi, and give him the old "not 'til you see the white's of their eyes" speech?

Obviously it depends on the scenario, to fight or not. Sitting at the dinner table as they kick down the door is not a time to fight. I'd feel pretty stupid yelling "Come on you M.f.ers, get some" as I stand up armed with a fork.

Would I risk my family's life to hang on to a few inanimate objects? Would I want to be with someone who decided  "screw it, let's go out in a blaze of glory"?

That maybe the wimp's approach, who knows. I don't think the blaze of glory approach is the bravest approach, just the easiest.

But for people to let their families get blown to pieces to hang on to a gun is stupid. I pity the person that has his kid's brains splattered all over the living room just so he could hang on to his AR-15.

Sometimes it's better to retreat to fight another time. Besides, if things got that bad, wouldn't there be plenty of M16-A2's out there for these "patriots" to use?

Some of you guys have this all wrong,we would not be fighting to keep a "few inanimate objects",we would be fighting for our freedom that was promised to us by our founding fathers and for our children's and grandchildren's freedom.
I am 46 years old and have three sons and one grandchild (a boy) [:)],I have done what I was put on this earth to do and that's raise my sons and create a family to carry on my blood line.
If it means giving up my life to protect the freedom that was promised over two hundred years ago I will do it!
We all have to go sometime and I can think of a hundred less worth while ways to go then defending freedom in the name of my children and grandchildren.
It is for them and yours that I would forfeit my life and not for the piece of metal called a gun.  

If the day ever came, there would be sniping of politician, lawyers and law makers that enact and support the bills to remove our right to bear arms.

The fear shouldn't be with us losing our rights to own or bear arms, it will be with those who enact the laws to prevent us from our constitutional right.

So [s]when[/s] do you plan on fightingg?

This is the prime reason that we have to fight the cold war tooth and nail.  Cowardice is a part of the human condition, and very few will stand and fight while they feel there is any other option. Our best hope is to support the NRA, GOA, and the rest.  Fight from the ballot box while we can, but be ready for anything.