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Posted: 2/16/2013 2:14:08 PM EDT
[#1]
Gripen > F35 > SU-35 > Eurotrash > Rafale
There, that should get Dport's attention. 
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Posted: 2/16/2013 2:15:42 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
Iowa class >>Gripen > F35 > SU-35 > Eurotrash > Rafale There, that should get Dport's attention. FIFY. |
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Posted: 2/16/2013 2:17:01 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
Gripen > F35 > SU-35 > Eurotrash > Rafale There, that should get Dport's attention. Bring back the battleships! Now it will get his attention. 
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Posted: 2/16/2013 2:21:13 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Iowa class >>Gripen > F35 > SU-35 > Eurotrash > Rafale There, that should get Dport's attention. FIFY. Quoted:
Quoted:
Gripen > F35 > SU-35 > Eurotrash > Rafale There, that should get Dport's attention. Bring back the battleships! Now it will get his attention. 
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Posted: 2/16/2013 2:25:01 PM EDT
[#5]
im glad we are getting Gripens... with the retirement of F-5 we were left without any toyplane..
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Posted: 2/16/2013 2:27:13 PM EDT
[#6]
The scenario they describe is this:
4 F-35s fire a total of 16 AIM-120s at 4 Su-35s. 1 Su-35 is hit and destroyed. The 3 remaining Su-35s fire a total of 12 missiles at 4 F-35. All 4 F-35s are destroyed. The 3 Su-35s then destroy 4 F/A-18 Super Hornet strike craft with remaining missiles and guns, without taking any additional losses. I guess we're doomed then, because the Chicoms have magic missiles and countermeasures and agility. |
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Posted: 2/16/2013 2:29:27 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
im glad we are getting Gripens... with the retirement of F-5 we were left without any toyplane.. Gripen is better than the Rafale. |
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Posted: 2/16/2013 2:30:17 PM EDT
[#8]
our missles are so much better than china's and our combat control is light years beyond this is all political aspired hyperbole
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Posted: 2/16/2013 2:34:50 PM EDT
[#9]
Su-35 because it edges out the superbug and it's in doubt whether the F-35 will ever become combat capable.
Did that site say that a Su-35 can outmanuever a AIM-120D? I can believe simply running away and making a missile launched at maximum range run out of fuel, but evading it with extreme manuevers? |
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Posted: 2/16/2013 3:13:14 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Su-35 because it edges out the superbug and it's in doubt whether the F-35 will ever become combat capable. Did that site say that a Su-35 can outmanuever a AIM-120D? I can believe simply running away and making a missile launched at maximum range run out of fuel, but evading it with extreme manuevers? Sounds good, except who launches at maximum range these days? That was a tactic with the old AIM-12 so you could begin maneuvering to make an AIM-9 re-attack from behind the target. All of that would take place one you had gotten within the AIM-12's range of about 25 miles from the target. Now you launch an AIM-120 at max Pk (Probability of Kill) to ensure the missile is within its optimum range and maneuverability portion of its performance envelope. That means you're still probably launching at well over 50 miles out versus the max range of over 100 miles reported for the AIM-120. I don't know if the Su-35 can detect, much less lock on and guide missiles on an F-35 or even an F-18 at over 50 miles. |
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Posted: 2/16/2013 8:15:10 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted: our missles are so much better than china's and our combat control is light years beyond this is all political aspired hyperbole If all we can say about our missiles is that they're better than China's, I'm not encouraged  . The thread was about a Russian fighter; how do you compare our missiles to theirs? And how, specifically, does our combat control give us such a large advantage that we can dismiss a discussion of the relative merits of the aircraft as "political aspired hyperbole"?
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Posted: 2/16/2013 8:20:46 PM EDT
[#12]
F-35 loses because it gets stuck on the ground with multiple system failures and/or is missing systems altogether.
If we're gonna spend a fuck-ton on Gen 5 shit, I'd rather have more F-22s. They can actually dogfight and they're not just glorified "stealth" bomb trucks, that lose a shit-ton of that "stealth" when they have hardpoints attached. Plus they have two engines. Two is one and one is none. |
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Posted: 2/16/2013 8:26:29 PM EDT
[#13]
Quoted:
Gripen > F35 > SU-35 > Eurotrash > Rafale There, that should get Dport's attention. Gripen and Rafale are Euro trash. 
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Posted: 2/16/2013 9:08:36 PM EDT
[#14]
Sorry guys did tldr, but did itsay anything out running an AWACS? Something that can pick up targets at long distances and relay the coordinates to fighters with long range missiles? I'm not in the AF but aren't they sop for all fighter missions? Or was this a strictly naval encounter and doesn't the navy have something of similar radar range?
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Posted: 2/16/2013 9:20:59 PM EDT
[#15]
Who has the best pilots? What air to air doctrine at our enemy training from? What air to air knowledge do the Chinese or Russians have to train from?
Is this not something to count? |
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Posted: 2/16/2013 9:23:30 PM EDT
[#16]
Repeat after me: we will never buy or build more F-22s.
The production line is gone and all the machinery is dismantled. It's dead, Jim. |
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Posted: 2/17/2013 3:32:59 AM EDT
[#17]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Gripen > F35 > SU-35 > Eurotrash > Rafale There, that should get Dport's attention. Gripen and Rafale are Euro trash. No. I was talking about the Eurotrash Typhoon. |
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Posted: 2/17/2013 4:00:50 AM EDT
[#18]
Quoted:
The scenario they describe is this: 4 F-35s fire a total of 16 AIM-120s at 4 Su-35s. 1 Su-35 is hit and destroyed. The 3 remaining Su-35s fire a total of 12 missiles at 4 F-35. All 4 F-35s are destroyed. The 3 Su-35s then destroy 4 F/A-18 Super Hornet strike craft with remaining missiles and guns, without taking any additional losses. I guess we're doomed then, because the Chicoms have magic missiles and countermeasures and agility. Maybe, maybe not. But what the Chinese do have that the US doesn't is numbers; more planes and pilots. Attrition... |
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Posted: 2/17/2013 4:04:28 AM EDT
[#19]
APA knows less about air power than my good fiend the swede does. That's saying something!
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Posted: 2/17/2013 4:22:43 AM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
APA knows less about air power than my good fiend the swede does. That's saying something! Don't be hatin'. |
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Posted: 2/17/2013 4:25:48 AM EDT
[#21]
]
Quoted:
APA knows less about air power than my good fiend the swede does. That's saying something! Freudian slip? |
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Posted: 2/17/2013 4:32:10 AM EDT
[#22]
Quoted:
] Quoted:
APA knows less about air power than my good fiend the swede does. That's saying something! Freudian slip? No. My iPad strikes again. But funny. |
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Posted: 2/17/2013 4:39:21 AM EDT
[#23]
What good is a SU-30 with a human pilot that can only hold a certain flight path due to our anatomy! The next gen stuff will be drone base. And we lead in that department.
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Posted: 2/17/2013 5:05:08 AM EDT
[#24]
We used to shoot at max range with the aim 64 Phoenix. When it comes down to air battles, it's not the plane as much as the pilot. Look at the wildcat vs the zero. Tactics were developed to defeat it and the pilots did well until better planes came along.
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Posted: 2/17/2013 5:07:46 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted:
We used to shoot at max range with the aim 64 Phoenix. When it comes down to air battles, it's not the plane as much as the pilot. Look at the wildcat vs the zero. Tactics were developed to defeat it and the pilots did well until better planes came along. We did? Please, do enlighten the room on when we did that. |
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Posted: 2/17/2013 5:07:53 AM EDT
[#26]
I will go nuke if anykinda super powers go to war.
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Posted: 2/17/2013 5:10:39 AM EDT
[#27]
Quoted:
Quoted:
We used to shoot at max range with the aim 64 Phoenix. When it comes down to air battles, it's not the plane as much as the pilot. Look at the wildcat vs the zero. Tactics were developed to defeat it and the pilots did well until better planes came along. We did? Please, do enlighten the room on when we did that. Operation Southern Watch. They missed. |
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Posted: 2/17/2013 5:12:47 AM EDT
[#28]
Quoted:
We used to shoot at max range with the aim 64 Phoenix. When it comes down to air battles, it's not the plane as much as the pilot. Look at the wildcat vs the zero. Tactics were developed to defeat it and the pilots did well until better planes came along. AIM54...and we fired that thing in anger, what, once? |
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Posted: 2/17/2013 5:12:57 AM EDT
[#29]
where the fuck is sylvan???? I thought he was the airpower expert?
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Posted: 2/17/2013 5:13:04 AM EDT
[#30]
Quoted:
The scenario they describe is this: 4 F-35s fire a total of 16 AIM-120s at 4 Su-35s. 1 Su-35 is hit and destroyed. The 3 remaining Su-35s fire a total of 12 missiles at 4 F-35. All 4 F-35s are destroyed. The 3 Su-35s then destroy 4 F/A-18 Super Hornet strike craft with remaining missiles and guns, without taking any additional losses. I guess we're doomed then, because the Chicoms have magic missiles and countermeasures and agility. What REALLY matters is: Which one carries the most Pmags??!! 'Cause everyone knows that is what makes the difference!!!! |
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Posted: 2/17/2013 5:13:54 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Quoted:
We used to shoot at max range with the aim 64 Phoenix. When it comes down to air battles, it's not the plane as much as the pilot. Look at the wildcat vs the zero. Tactics were developed to defeat it and the pilots did well until better planes came along. We did? Please, do enlighten the room on when we did that. Well excuse me, I was incorrect. I knew I had read it somewhere and it was Iranian af that used it, not us. Granted the info is subject to debate since it wasn't the us that did it. And I messed up on the number too, but everyone knew what I was talking about. |
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Posted: 2/17/2013 5:20:15 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
We used to shoot at max range with the aim 64 Phoenix. When it comes down to air battles, it's not the plane as much as the pilot. Look at the wildcat vs the zero. Tactics were developed to defeat it and the pilots did well until better planes came along. We did? Please, do enlighten the room on when we did that. Operation Southern Watch. They missed. Yeah, I know we shot two of them and they missed -- the comment made it appear that we routinely used that missile in that way, when we really almost never used that missile at all. |
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Posted: 2/17/2013 5:21:03 AM EDT
[#33]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
We used to shoot at max range with the aim 64 Phoenix. When it comes down to air battles, it's not the plane as much as the pilot. Look at the wildcat vs the zero. Tactics were developed to defeat it and the pilots did well until better planes came along. We did? Please, do enlighten the room on when we did that. Well excuse me, I was incorrect. I knew I had read it somewhere and it was Iranian af that used it, not us. Granted the info is subject to debate since it wasn't the us that did it. And I messed up on the number too, but everyone knew what I was talking about. One can usually assume that anything the Iranians claim about their military uses of anything are at best exaggerations. |
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Posted: 2/17/2013 5:40:16 AM EDT
[#34]
CAS, Rangers vs Marines, battleships, F22, AH1 vs AH64, and women in infantry.
That should just about cover it. |
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Posted: 2/17/2013 5:53:19 AM EDT
[#35]
The F14 would have kicked all of there asses...
and we destroyed them 
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Posted: 2/17/2013 6:02:29 AM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
The F14 would have kicked all of there asses... and we destroyed them Bwahahaha...hahaha....Oh, you were serious? |
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Posted: 2/17/2013 6:07:28 AM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
The F14 would have kicked all of there asses... and we destroyed them 
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Posted: 2/17/2013 6:13:45 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted: Repeat after me: we will never buy or build more F-22s. The production line is gone and all the machinery is dismantled. It's dead, Jim. Actually it's all in storage and COULD be reactivated. Problem is, this IS unlikely and would need to be done soon if at all because of the inevitable brain drain, people leaving the company who have the knowledge and experience required to make it work. Let's not forget the entire supply chain, too. Assuming you had all the airframe parts, you need engines, hydraulics, avionics, and everything else in the aircraft and somebody to make them. The F-22's cancellation will go down in history as a titanic mistake. I believe that the right decision, as a stopgap measure, would be to acquire more latest version F-15s and F-16s to upgrade our current fleets. The F-16 E, F, and I models are more capable than anything in the USAF inventory. They were developed AFTER the AF took delivery of its last Block 52 model. Additionally, I think that Lockmart should integrate F-35 sensor tech into the 15 and 16. Modernize it to today's standards without trying to turn it into a different aircraft. I also think that there's some real sense in going back to more specialized aircraft. We now try to make anything with wings do everything that can be done. Making a fighter haul bombs is stupid. Send out a bomber to drop bombs. Fighters should be tasked with the single purpose of knocking enemy aircraft out of the sky. CJ |
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Posted: 2/17/2013 6:18:57 AM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The F14 would have kicked all of there asses... and we destroyed them Bwahahaha...hahaha....Oh, you were serious?
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Posted: 2/17/2013 6:24:30 AM EDT
[#40]
Extreme maneuverability is limited by human physiology. 4th Gen a/c were already pushing that envelope. This scenario assumes AIM-120Ds will only have pk of 25% against the Su-35 and AIM-120C5s will have a pk of 0%. Bullshit. Our a/c don't operate alone - where were the EF-18G jammers and the E-2D Hawkeye AEW force multipliers?
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