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Posted: 9/9/2002 3:42:40 AM EDT
[#1]
If I remember correctly, the 60 series are the mechanical MOSs.
The recruiter has all that information on tap. |
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Posted: 9/9/2002 4:18:28 AM EDT
[#2]
As a fellow AF veteran, all I can offer is make sure he gets a guaranteed job. I went in "Open General" with high hopes of being a B-52 Tail Gunner.......well, I ended up for 4 years pumping jet fuel out of a 5000 gallon Mack truck into aircraft and working in a fuels laboratory. Not really what I wanted to do. Still had a great time over in Germany, but feel I missed my calling shooting Migs down.
Make sure he gets a guaranteed job. Best of luck to him and tell him thanks for joining and making a contribution. vmax84 |
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Posted: 9/9/2002 5:15:24 AM EDT
[#3]
As a retired Army guy...I would think the Air Force would offer more 'mechanical' training and opportunities than the Army...but his questions will be answered by the recruiter, you might want to go down there with him, you know how recruiters are...they showed me a picture of a bulldozer with a machine gun on it with "Combat Engineers"...I ended up with an E-tool and humping an M-60...bull dozer operators drive bull dozers, Combat Engineers don't...but it was cool anyway, got to blow up more than I ever had to build....
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Posted: 9/9/2002 5:24:17 AM EDT
[#4]
67 series MOS will provide experience for an Airframe and Powerplant license after his hitch is up.
68 series does the same for aircraft Powerplant license. |
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Posted: 9/9/2002 5:24:52 AM EDT
[#5]
The army has:
1. More vehicles than any other service. 2. More aircraft than the Air Force. 3. More ships than the Navy (true). Vehicle maintenance is one thing, but [i]aircraft[/i] maintenance is another. If he can get training on aircraft maintenance, particularly turbine engines (helos), he can expect to use that skill if/when he leaves the service. Many ex-military take civilian jobs for contractors such as Raytheon, some on the old posts/bases where they once served. |
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Posted: 9/9/2002 5:33:23 AM EDT
[#6]
More ships than the NAVY?
REALLY? AW CMON....??? REALLY???? prove it man! |
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Posted: 9/9/2002 5:33:52 AM EDT
[#7]
Has he thought about going a semester to college and checking out ROTC. Maybe it would be worth him checking out.
I work for a manufacturing/engineering company. All the engineers have college degrees. Many of our machinist have two or sometimes four year degrees. From what I hear the military is much better now than it was during the "Clinton years". Make sure he gets everything in writing. I've got a nephew that just went in the airforce. He wanted mechanical training. Didn't score high enough on the test so he's a firefighter. Nothing against those guys, just back out in the civilian world his paycheck won't allow him to buy those expensive trucks with all the "shag-daddy" accessories on it. |
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Posted: 9/9/2002 5:35:56 AM EDT
[#8]
Quoted: More ships than the NAVY? REALLY? AW CMON....??? REALLY???? prove it man! That's gonna take a little work, but I'll get right on it. The Army has, in ownership, posession or contract, more ships in its logistics fleet than the Navy has as a whole. I learned this interesting fact while getting my Transportation Officer classification (after the Reserves eliminated all Field Artillery units). |
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Posted: 9/9/2002 5:41:41 AM EDT
[#9]
I spent 4 years in the Army as a 91B- medical specialist (1995-1999). Here's my advice:
There is no such thing as an honest recruiter. Pick an MOS (job) before you go to the recruiter and stick to that job. Don't let them budge you. I wanted to be a medic and they said all the slots were full and I had to pick something else like "Tank Turret Repair". I told them no thanks and that I would give the Navy a shot. Of course the recruiter didn't want to lose me so he "pulled some strings" and got me the MOS I want. They will try everything they can to get those not so popular MOS's filled. You are in control until you raise your hand and take the oath, don't let them jerk you around. Recruiters in my opinion are no better than used car dealers. There job isn't to give you what you want, but what they want to get rid of. Stick to your original MOS and be persistent, it usually works. Oh yeah, invest in that GI Bill! Even if you are planning on a career in the military, you will still need to work when you get out and that might involve going to school. |
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Posted: 9/9/2002 5:42:27 AM EDT
[#10]
I believe you!
No hard feelings! I was just floored when I read that...hehehe Dammit! [:D] |
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Posted: 9/9/2002 5:42:43 AM EDT
[#11]
I have 10 years experience as an Army Mechanic (ok, I was a 12B for a while, but I still held the other MOS as well).
Tell him if he wants to get the widest range of experience with mechanical work, MOS 62B, Engineer Equipment Repairer, is the way to go. 62B's are responsible for maintaining a wider variety of items in the Army invetory than any other MOS. The aircraft repair MOS's are good, but speialized, and that field has a large surplus of workers on the out work force due to airline layoffs right now if he doesn't make a career of the Army. A few years experiene as a 62B will qualify him to work for any heavy equipment dealer as a technician no problem, or for anyone who use large trucks or maintains them. My experience strictly in the Army Resrve and the training (sometimes Cat factory) has led to offers of $15-19 and hour jobs without me even looking. Plus, 62B's are assigned to engineer units 80% of the time, and as anyine who has been an Army Engineer can tell you we take care of our own.... it is a good place to be. |
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Posted: 9/9/2002 6:21:50 AM EDT
[#12]
Try the 67 series. 67T is a blackHawk mechanic and eventually he could become a flight engineer and get to fly as well.
Aviator |
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Posted: 9/9/2002 11:30:30 AM EDT
[#13]
Stay away from the gunship MOS's because you don't fly enough.. I was a 67R (Apache Cheif) I'd go with the 67T MOS. (Blackhawk cheif)...
If I could turn back the clock... I'd have been a Marine Grunt, because thats more what I'm into now. See if they still have the "aerial observer" MOS still.. those guys have it made. Might as well be enlisted pilots. |
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Posted: 9/9/2002 11:53:09 AM EDT
[#14]
Tell him to forget about a maint. type MOS. Now is the time to be a rifleman, a warrior. If your going to wear the clothes, do the job. If he is dead set on joining the service, tell him to run, don't walk to the nearest USMC recruiting office and join the Marine Corps and demand 0311. That's a Marine rifleman. There is no more honorable profession in the U.S. armed forces than an infantryman. He might have more fun, better liberty and easier living conditions doing something else but he will regret not being a real warrior. Oh sure he will bitch and moan about the "suck" and act like he's jealous of the non combat types but deep down and for the rest of his life he will carry with him the quiet pride of serving his country as a true warrior. Take it from someone who knows. I listened to the "smart' advice. I got one of those cushy maint. jobs in USMC aviation. My instincts at the time was to be a rifleman. When I got to the fleet I realized I made the wrong decision, I mean what kind of idiot joins the Marines to fix airplanes Marines are killers, they break things and hurt people for money! They don't fix airplanes. Don't get me wrong, I lived with my decision and did my best and enjoyed my service as well. But the grunts turned the tables on me, I was jealous of them.
So in closing I will reiterate. Forget maintenance. If you ain't Infantry you ain't on the varsity team. |
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Posted: 9/9/2002 11:58:41 AM EDT
[#15]
I agree with Sukebee....
I joined the Navy and became a disbursing clerk....I spent four years behind a desk going through pay records and figuring Leave and Earnings statements. I coulda' been a contender!! [:P] |
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Posted: 9/9/2002 12:03:24 PM EDT
[#16]
Infantry is an honorable [i]profession[/i], but if he plans on getting out (not a lifer?), he'll want to have an investment in his future, and not just memories. I'm combat arms (Artillery, Airborne, blah blah blah) and nothing about that, or Infantry, translates to a future in civilian life (other than bragging rights). Learning equipment maintenance, particularly heavy equipment or aircraft, or electronics, is the stuff futures are made of.
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Posted: 9/9/2002 12:43:42 PM EDT
[#17]
And on every resume he can write down that he killed people, just in case the local maintenance shop is in need of a hitman. I'm currently active duty AF, as a flightline mechanic nontheless, and I've had many great opportunities, as well as more to come, such as my orders that are in my hand to go back to Texas, get an associates degree (for free mind you), and teach all the new recruits how to do my job. The military will have 100% college tuition assistance as of October 1, 2002. Why spend all your time "humping" in the field when you can get an education to move on with your life after you serve your country. To me, that is the reward. I am an avid "black rifle" owner, a Bushy 16" A2, and I get plenty of opportunity to shoot it. I'm fortunate enough to not worry about getting shot back at, unless the sh*t really hits the fan like it did while I was deployed to Kuwait. Sukebe, I'll see you at the McDonald's drive through...
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Posted: 9/9/2002 12:48:06 PM EDT
[#18]
whatever he decides have him look toward something useful when he gets out. There are not alot of jobs for tank gunners in the civilian world.
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Posted: 9/9/2002 1:16:42 PM EDT
[#19]
I too am an Air Force vet. I was a C-130E loadmaster, and if I had a dollar for everytime I had an Army grunt ask me how he could re-up into the Air Force or how he should have joined the Air Force in the first place I would be a very rich man. If he is dead set on the Army I have to agree with M-60 and say try for a crew chief slot on a Blackhawk, but I personally would still suggest an enlisted aircrew job in the Air Force. You get the benifits of flight pay, no base details, lot's of TDYs, etc. If he has any questions have him feel free to e-mail or IM me and I'll try to answer them for him.
Wish him good luck in whatever job he chooses. Load Clear, Dirk |
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Posted: 9/9/2002 1:33:41 PM EDT
[#20]
I spent a tour as a detailed recruiter. You need to keep in mind a few things about them.
1) The only first-hand experience that I felt qualified to give is about MY job and what I went through. Even then I made sure that the applicant understood that I would be telling him MY experiences, which in NO WAY meant that he would experience the same, even if he went into the exact same MOS. 2) There is an Army Regulation (AR) that gives a description of every MOS in the Army. The recruiter will have this, and can tell you the different MOS series (infantry, mechanical, aviation, etc.). 3) The Army WILL guarantee the job that is picked by the applicant once he finishes up at the MEPS. HE PICKS IT, [b]NOT[/b] the recruiter. 4) Recruiters cannot predict the future anymore than you can. To expect them to tell you how your son will do once he gets in the Army, or is he going to like a certain job, etc., is unreasonable. Go with what's in black and white and he'll be fine, because of regardless of which job he picks, he'll be doing something better than lounging out at the house and he WILL be taken care of. Chris |
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Posted: 9/9/2002 2:12:24 PM EDT
[#21]
I have worked with all the Armed Forces in my job and have grown up in the military.
If you son wants to be a shooter and looter go Marine or Army that is using your hands. If he wants tech. training. DON'T GET IN A MOS THAT YOU TURN A WRENCH unless that is all you think you can do.A job as a mechanic is not a career its a job that will wear you out. Navy has good training,If you score high on the ASVAB and want to turn a wrench go NUCLEAR it is a field in demand in the Navy. The pay is better also.I know for a fact 6 month deployments SUCK. I can not tell you how bad it is if you are young and have a wife or steady girlfriend. They do not wait for you often, married or not. AIR FORCE has the best housing and working conditions next to the Coast Guard. The woman seem to be the best looking out of all the services. He can still get the training he wants. IMHO, this is from years of interservice action |
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Posted: 9/9/2002 2:31:13 PM EDT
[#22]
TRW, whatever your son decides that he wants to do and whatever branch he wants to do it in, make sure that his MOS is guaranteed in writing. I've never been a recruiter and I know that they have a tough job, but my experience in 13+ years in the Nav is that they will lie, cheat, steal, and stab their own mothers to get you to sign on the dotted line in whatever field they are the shortest in at the moment. I have had kids working for me with between 2 and 3.5 years of college who could have come in on an officer program or at least had a good technical "A" school (entry level). Instead, because the 'cruiter was hurting for bodies, they came in as non-designated airmen. Read that as minimal, non-technical training. They were told that they could just enter as a non-rate (no specialty) and choose what they wanted to do later. True of course, but not worth missing out on that school time and avoiding a lot of the BS that non-rates have to put up with. Best of luck to you and your boy. If he thinks that he wants to be a Navy airplane mech, send me an email and I will try to answer your questions to the best of my ability.
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Posted: 9/9/2002 2:47:34 PM EDT
[#23]
TRW
I have one small bone to pick with you - "we" shouldn't be going to the recruiter's office, unless you have to give him a ride, in which case you wait elsewhere. He's not a child, regardless of the liberal definition (what is it now, age 27?). By the way, I think you go ahead and coach him on interviewing with the recruiter, just don't go in there and hold his hand. Okay, this isn't a flame, just my humble opinion. |
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Posted: 9/9/2002 2:52:08 PM EDT
[#24]
Well i was and am 0311 tried and true,I was in Marine Ifantry,if your son wants a future he has the GI Bill,now before these guys start saying how the GI Bill wont pay anything it will now cause my GI Bill is now well over $36,000 dollars.He will be eligible for free grants to supplement like the Pell grant and others through Veterans.If when he gets out and is going to school and he needs a Job Veterans will give him a job and its tax free.
Pay raises also have put people over the top E-3's are now clearing over $1,350 dollars a month clear and free.Free room and board albeit they make you field day that sucker,the Chow Halls have improved vastly over in just the past 4 years. Your son would be wise to join the Marines and Go Infantry,he will have alot more time off to do what he wants to do,Ya they go to the field and train day and night but when in Garrison the grunts have it easy. He will have a chance to see the world if he deploys on with a MEU SOC. I've been to Australia 3 times "what father would not like to see his son Conqure the women of a foreign nation?",anyhow i had the best time of my life in the Marines. The Marines produce the best fighting man this country can produce,everything about the Marines is about the Infantry everything the Marines has is there to support the Infantry on the ground.Not only are you backed by the Marines in Support you have the entire Navy supporting you as well. Your son will have earned something that no one can take away from him and thats he's a Marine for life.That title of Marine no man can take away from him. |
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Posted: 9/9/2002 2:56:48 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted: TRW I have one small bone to pick with you - "we" shouldn't be going to the recruiter's office, unless you have to give him a ride, in which case you wait elsewhere. He's not a child, regardless of the liberal definition (what is it now, age 27?). By the way, I think you go ahead and coach him on interviewing with the recruiter, just don't go in there and hold his hand. Okay, this isn't a flame, just my humble opinion. One of the best things my dad did for me was to come with me to the recruiter's office. That Chief was so full of shit and my 18 year old "do as I am told dumbass" was eating every word. You can make a mistake that you will pay for in 4 years of your life. You dont have to "Hold his Hand " But be there to stop the bullshit when it starts. |
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Posted: 9/9/2002 3:04:39 PM EDT
[#26]
'dog
I agree with your theory, but hopefully our kids can filter that crap out. Recruiter's are tough because they are extremely well trained at the job. A recruiter will never lie outright to you, but the omissions and midirects ... Just about everyone's main problem at the age of 17 or 18 is making a decision about what they will do with the rest of their life. What we can do is advise and prepare them for those decisions. Entering the service is as good a place as any to start taking responsibilty for your own decisions and actions. Besides, how bad can it be?[:)] |
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Posted: 9/9/2002 3:24:47 PM EDT
[#27]
Lot's of surprising positive responses here. When I first read only the subject, I was planning on stating that if he was old enough to join, then he was old enough to make his own mistakes. After reading over all of the replies about "job training" maybe I was too hasty. When I was in, the only training I got that helped me find a job afterwards was learning how to use a grill, paint, and peel potatoes.z
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Posted: 9/9/2002 3:37:31 PM EDT
[#28]
Quoted: TRW I have one small bone to pick with you - "we" shouldn't be going to the recruiter's office, unless you have to give him a ride, in which case you wait elsewhere. He's not a child, regardless of the liberal definition (what is it now, age 27?). . Gotta agree here. It's a choice he's got to do on his own. An M-60's machanical, so's an M-16!!! 11B all the way!!!! in seriousness though, I was an infantryman-not too many skills applicable to the civilian world. Don't get me wrong, I love that I was a ground pounder. I learned a lot about leadership, which did apply to management, etc. But while I'm scraping out $50,000 a year, My brother who was a Diesel Generator Mechanic (MOS?) is now a mechanical engineer, Making three times that. I definately have much more pride in what I did though. |
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Posted: 9/9/2002 7:17:40 PM EDT
[#29]
First- tell him you think it is not a good idea that he joins the Service. If he is easily swayed away you did him a favor.
If he is bent on joining- Go to the army recruiter- have him put the offer on paper just as you would when selecting a contractor. Take that offer and go sit with the Navy recruiter- Make him write you the offer. Take these offers and walk over to the Air force- same thing. Take these and go to see the marine recruiter. Now walk over to see what the Coasties are offering. Stop to see what you can do with Guards and Reserves. This is called being thorough. After all this he will be quite educated- and will be able to make an informed choice. When I select vendors I don't always go with dollars, I always like lists of exactly what I will be recieving. He needs to be bold in this process. He also needs to remember that though they may teach him a skill- he must do it with an attitude of a servant- it will help him make many of the sacrifices required of the soldier. Godspeed son of TRW |
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Posted: 9/9/2002 7:32:58 PM EDT
[#30]
Quoted: TRW I have one small bone to pick with you - "we" shouldn't be going to the recruiter's office, unless you have to give him a ride, in which case you wait elsewhere. He's not a child, regardless of the liberal definition (what is it now, age 27?). By the way, I think you go ahead and coach him on interviewing with the recruiter, just don't go in there and hold his hand. Okay, this isn't a flame, just my humble opinion. Excellent point [b]AeroE[/b]. At 17, my father gave me pointers (26 year Army/Air Force Retiree) but left it up to me to talk with the recruiters and make the decision. Chris |
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Posted: 9/9/2002 7:38:21 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted: If he is bent on joining- Go to the army recruiter- have him put the offer on paper just as you would when selecting a contractor. Take that offer and go sit with the Navy recruiter- Make him write you the offer. Take these offers and walk over to the Air force- same thing. Take these and go to see the marine recruiter. Now walk over to see what the Coasties are offering. Stop to see what you can do with Guards and Reserves. This is called being thorough. After all this he will be quite educated- and will be able to make an informed choice. When I select vendors I don't always go with dollars, I always like lists of exactly what I will be recieving. He needs to be bold in this process. He also needs to remember that though they may teach him a skill- he must do it with an attitude of a servant- it will help him make many of the sacrifices required of the soldier. Godspeed son of TRW [u]Excellent[/u] advice [b]Canooger[/b]. Where I recruited, we had all the branches in one hallway. We [i]encouraged[/i] the applicant to go compare with the other branches. Only thing is, we told them to have those other branches maintain OUR standard, which is to show IN WRITING what their programs, incentives, etc. were, and to have a pair of BALLS and NOT give in to intimidation or verbal promises. Chris |
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Posted: 9/10/2002 9:14:52 AM EDT
[#32]
Quoted: this is quite true. the Army has hundreds of those ships mentioned. i believe they are pre-positioned ships, carrying bombs, ammo, and whatnots (whatever those are[;)] ). i was floored too when i first heard that. Those ships are not under contract to the Army or any other branch. They belong to the Military Sealift Command, a Federal agency, but they do not belong to, nor are they under control of, the Army. I know this because I am trying to go to work for them. |
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Posted: 9/10/2002 2:39:39 PM EDT
[#33]
LarryG is right the Army does not have any control over those sea lift ships.
They do however have the Pre positioned ships like the Marines do.I believe the they have 23 of them and the Marines have 19.Those Ro-Ro ships can carry a whole lotta crap too. Now if you would have said ,"I heard the Marines have their own navy",You would have been correct to a certain extent.The Marines do have control over the Gator Navy to an extent in that they are there for the Marines Exclusively. |
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Posted: 9/10/2002 5:00:40 PM EDT
[#34]
Thanks for all the input! I wasn't holding his hand at the recruiting station but was there to ensure the BS didn't get too deep. He now has his ASVAB scores and goes to Albany Friday for a physical. If he passes the physical, then he sits down with a "career counselor" to discuss jobs he qualifies for. The job openings vary from day to day and I'm sure that they will want to lock him in to one then. I've told him that if he really wants a certain MOS to hold out for it. I won't be going to Albany with him so he'll be on his own and will be making the decision.
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Posted: 9/10/2002 5:36:03 PM EDT
[#35]
Don't let your son jump into anything and have the Recruiter explain ALL options to your son as well and have him explain what each letter identifier means such as 67T or 67R or any others. If he goes in wanting to be a specific thing, but the processing center just marks him down for the 67 series of MOS, he could wind up in a job totally different from what he wanted/expected. He has to make sure that they put him in for exactly what he wants. Once the paperwork is signed and he finished at the processing center, game's over...
Another point would be for both of you to talk to other recruiters as well and find out which service would best suit him and his long term goals. One last peice of advice...have him IGNORE History Channel's Basic Training. I knew they were going to have to soften it up some because of the cameras, but my god...it looks like nice vacation compared to what really happens. I was so disgusted with the show I could only watch about 5 minutes of a single episode. |
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Posted: 9/13/2002 3:16:32 PM EDT
[#36]
**UPDATE**
My son got back from the Albany MEPS today. He passed his physical and signed up for Combat Engineers. He leaves for basic on 3 Jan 2003, at Ft Leonard Wood, 25 years to the day that I started basic at Lackland AFB, TX in the Air force (3 Jan 1978). One of many interesting coincidences involving his decision. His first duty assignment will be Ft Bliss, TX. Thanks again to all who shared their suggestions and opinions! You were a great help. |
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Posted: 9/13/2002 3:34:53 PM EDT
[#37]
Glad to hear your son chose the Army. I am to late to give you any input as to his choice. However, I was stationed at Ft Bliss twice and really liked it. I have a BA and a MA thanks to the GI bill. I was in the Navy first and then the Army. I liked them both and am sure your son will like his army time (awhile after he is out). Please tell him to take advantage of the programs he can find at the ed center. All the infantry/airborne/marine etc etc. is nice but it is good to be retired with your body pretty much in one piece.
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Posted: 9/13/2002 3:55:15 PM EDT
[#38]
TRW:
Good luck to your son, a good attitude and the desire to succeed, will go a long way toward making his military experience an enjoyable one: Terry |
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