If there was no NFA what would be the most common AR15 Setup?

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - If there was no NFA what would be the most common AR15 Setup? (Page 1 of 2)

Posted: 1/20/2013 9:55:21 PM EDT

If there was no NFA, and thus no restrictions on barrel length, full auto, and suppressors, etc. what would be most common AR15 setup?

I'm guessing a lot of Mk18 clones with suppressors, and a lot of burst fire M16/A4 clones.

Posted: 1/20/2013 9:56:10 PM EDT

[#1]

What ever the flavor of the month tier seal gun was

Posted: 1/20/2013 9:56:30 PM EDT

[#2]

11.5 with a can

Posted: 1/20/2013 9:56:49 PM EDT

[#3]

That would kinda suck the cool out of the ultra shorties for me. I'd probably just roll with a 14.5", select fire, with a suppressor mount.

Posted: 1/20/2013 9:56:55 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:
11.5 with a can and happy switch

FIFY

I personally think the look of a 10-12" with a full-length rail and UBR is just perfect.

Posted: 1/20/2013 9:57:46 PM EDT

[#5]

Quoted:
What ever the flavor of the month tier seal gun was

Also this.

Posted: 1/20/2013 9:58:16 PM EDT

[#6]

And this

Posted: 1/20/2013 9:58:27 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:

Quoted:
11.5 with a can and happy switch

FIFY

going with this.
and probably in FDE

Posted: 1/20/2013 9:58:30 PM EDT

[#8]

It would be years before I even get to AR15 setups. I would start with an M-60........

Posted: 1/20/2013 9:59:30 PM EDT

[#9]

There would be a lot more innovation without the NFA. Who knows what we'd be running around with.

Posted: 1/20/2013 10:01:17 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
There would be a lot more innovation without the NFA. Who knows what we'd be running around with.

I don't think that is quite true considering that the military can and does acquire all manner of NFA stuff and therefore the incentive to innovate in that space is still substantial.

Posted: 1/20/2013 10:04:20 PM EDT

[#11]

I'd probably just go with the 14.5 inch barrel.

Posted: 1/20/2013 10:04:26 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

There would be a lot more innovation without the NFA. Who knows what we'd be running around with.

Good point.

Posted: 1/20/2013 10:05:06 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:
11.5 with a can and happy switch

FIFY

I personally think the look of a 10-12" with a full-length rail and UBR is just perfect.

Posted: 1/20/2013 10:05:28 PM EDT

[#14]

Anyone else:

Posted: 1/20/2013 10:06:34 PM EDT

[#15]

it would mirror what is in use with the military.

I think that Mk18's would be very popular.

I also think that there would be laws passed requiring silencers on the grounds of environmental and safety hazards. There would probably be laws to pinch people about unsuppressed shooting, and people would be bitching that the 2A garuntees their right to be loud as fuck and rupture ear drums.

Posted: 1/20/2013 10:08:46 PM EDT

[#16]

Quoted:

Quoted:
There would be a lot more innovation without the NFA. Who knows what we'd be running around with.

I don't think that is quite true considering that the military can and does acquire all manner of NFA stuff and therefore the incentive to innovate in that space is still substantial.

There's always that, but the gov makes it obnoxious for clever independent folks to make full auto stuff tinkering in their garage. The NFA is a good example of the gov getting in the way of innovators.

Posted: 1/20/2013 10:09:28 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:
Anyone else:
http://www.dogfightink.com/mk18mod0.jpg

NFA isn't much of a block to many of us.

If I want a Mk18, I'm going to pay my 2 tax stamps and do it.

I can't afford to do a FA one, but many here can, and do.

However, if you look at what people who actually SHOOT their M-16's/RR/RDIAS/LL, etc ,etc's they don't really seem to go for the gucci uppers. They usually slap on whatever the fuck is laying around and go to town. Of course there are always exceptions, but those guys seem to be more interested in caliber compatibility than if their rifle looks like something Costa would shake their hand over owning.

Posted: 1/20/2013 10:11:24 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

Quoted:
There would be a lot more innovation without the NFA. Who knows what we'd be running around with.

I don't think that is quite true considering that the military can and does acquire all manner of NFA stuff and therefore the incentive to innovate in that space is still substantial.

There's always that, but the gov makes it obnoxious for clever independent folks to make full auto stuff tinkering in their garage. The NFA is a good example of the gov getting in the way of innovators.

How are you going to innovate better full auto?

The LL is a goofy, but simple workaround. The RDIAS is another simple machine that takes advantage of the existing operation of the FCG. I don't think you are going to innovate off of those two setups. Of course, if there was no NFA, those items would not exist. Everything would accept a 3 position FCG and auto disco.

Posted: 1/20/2013 10:11:25 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
it would mirror what is in use with the military.

I think that Mk18's would be very popular.

I also think that there would be laws passed requiring silencers on the grounds of environmental and safety hazards. There would probably be laws to pinch people about unsuppressed shooting, and people would be bitching that the 2A garuntees their right to be loud as fuck and rupture ear drums.

Sooo true.

I would have select fire and suppressed everything.

Also, super short 12GA side by side.

Posted: 1/20/2013 10:12:30 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
it would mirror what is in use with the military.

I think that Mk18's would be very popular.

I also think that there would be laws passed requiring silencers on the grounds of environmental and safety hazards. There would probably be laws to pinch people about unsuppressed shooting, and people would be bitching that the 2A garuntees their right to be loud as fuck and rupture ear drums.

That is probably exactly what would happen

Posted: 1/20/2013 10:13:47 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:

Quoted:
it would mirror what is in use with the military.

I think that Mk18's would be very popular.

I also think that there would be laws passed requiring silencers on the grounds of environmental and safety hazards. There would probably be laws to pinch people about unsuppressed shooting, and people would be bitching that the 2A garuntees their right to be loud as fuck and rupture ear drums.

Sooo true.

I would have select fire and suppressed everything.

Also, super short 12GA side by side.

I would Conceal Carry a ..........

Glock 18

Posted: 1/20/2013 10:16:39 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:
There would be a lot more innovation without the NFA. Who knows what we'd be running around with.

I don't think that is quite true considering that the military can and does acquire all manner of NFA stuff and therefore the incentive to innovate in that space is still substantial.

There's always that, but the gov makes it obnoxious for clever independent folks to make full auto stuff tinkering in their garage. The NFA is a good example of the gov getting in the way of innovators.

How are you going to innovate better full auto?

The LL is a goofy, but simple workaround. The RDIAS is another simple machine that takes advantage of the existing operation of the FCG. I don't think you are going to innovate off of those two setups. Of course, if there was no NFA, those items would not exist. Everything would accept a 3 position FCG and auto disco.

I'm only suggesting we might be running around with something different. Disregarding my statement, we'd have whatever Gucci gun was in flavor. So today a MK18.

Posted: 1/20/2013 10:19:20 PM EDT

[#23]

I want to spout lots of crap about my perfect AR15 for cqb or HD BUT.....

wouldn't i just want a FA Suppressed tavor at the end of the day?

Posted: 1/20/2013 10:20:57 PM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
There would be a lot more innovation without the NFA. Who knows what we'd be running around with.

This is true, but I imagine that SAW type weapons (the role the M249, LSW, and RPK fill) would be more advanced than they are now in particular. Plus I bet the technique for how to fire and employ a rifle on FA would also be more advanced at least to a small degree. True crew served weapons would probably would also be better (or different weapons normally used for it if the effectiveness of SAW's approach the level of a GPMG), but probably not as much due to expense (most civilians can't afford heavier weapons as a hobby like they can smaller guns, so demand and therefore added innovation would be less). A lot of guys into tacticool firearms would likely have one inexpensive GPMG type gun as their heaviest weapon. Without AOW laws, there would be some weird and useful concealable and/or disguised firearms out there without a doubt. Of course shotguns would almost universally have really short barrels other than ones for hunting. Long range shooting with large caliber firearms like AT rifles would probably be common. Single shot direct fire cannons would likely be how we look at .50 BMG rifles today in terms of recreation. Mortars would probably be common too, but innovation with them would likely be not as much because if you start getting too fancy with the shells things would get expensive fast. Skill with military type arms would probably be a LOT more common than it is now. I can probably think of more...

ETA: CC'ing PDW's (or having them in cars) would probably be common and PDW type SMG's probably would be a lot better and cheaper (think an advanced Skorpion vz.61 like firearms, but not in shitty .32 ACP) . Normal cheap WW2 Grease Gun and Sten Gun like SMG's would also be really common due to LOW cost and people would probably make them in their garage other than the rifled barrel (if they want to be fancy).

Posted: 1/20/2013 10:21:50 PM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:

Quoted:
There would be a lot more innovation without the NFA. Who knows what we'd be running around with.

I don't think that is quite true considering that the military can and does acquire all manner of NFA stuff and therefore the incentive to innovate in that space is still substantial.

There's always that, but the gov makes it obnoxious for clever independent folks to make full auto stuff tinkering in their garage. The NFA is a good example of the gov getting in the way of innovators.

How are you going to innovate better full auto?

The LL is a goofy, but simple workaround. The RDIAS is another simple machine that takes advantage of the existing operation of the FCG. I don't think you are going to innovate off of those two setups. Of course, if there was no NFA, those items would not exist. Everything would accept a 3 position FCG and auto disco.

Know how we can tell which of you have read "Unintended Consequences"...

The NFA has stifled innovation and development in arms development, this is a fact. The only question is to what degree.

Who knows what some guy in his garage might have perfected, maybe made the AN94 2-round burst concept more viable, or unlocked the key to caseless ammo, or any other number of things.

To answer the OP, my money'd be on military clones, M4's & CQBR's.

Posted: 1/20/2013 10:22:02 PM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
I want to spout lots of crap about my perfect AR15 for cqb or HD BUT.....

wouldn't i just want a FA Suppressed tavor at the end of the day?

No.

OOB next to your temple?

Posted: 1/20/2013 10:25:01 PM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:

That would kinda suck the cool out of the ultra shorties for me. I'd probably just roll with a 14.5", select fire, with a suppressor mount.

This. FA trigger pack, 5.56mm chambered 14.5" 1/7" barrel, midlength gas piston, and a nice muffler. That's the primary functionality, the rest of it (furniture, optics) will just be icing on the cake.

ETA:

Quoted:

I would Conceal Carry a ..........

Glock 18

I've always had a bit of a soft spot for a Beretta M93r.

Posted: 1/20/2013 10:34:35 PM EDT

[#28]

Quoted:

Quoted:
There would be a lot more innovation without the NFA. Who knows what we'd be running around with.

This is true, but I imagine that SAW type weapons (the role the M249, LSW, and RPK fill) would be more advanced than they are now in particular. Plus I bet the technique for how to fire and employ a rifle on FA would also be more advanced at least to a small degree. True crew served weapons would probably would also be better (or different weapons normally used for it if the effectiveness of SAW's approach the level of a GPMG), but probably not as much due to expense (most civilians can't afford heavier weapons as a hobby like they can smaller guns, so demand and therefore added innovation would be less). A lot of guys into tacticool firearms would likely have one inexpensive GPMG type gun as their heaviest weapon. Without AOW laws, there would be some weird and useful concealable and/or disguised firearms out there without a doubt. Of course shotguns would almost universally have really short barrels other than ones for hunting. Long range shooting with large caliber firearms like AT rifles would probably be common. Single shot direct fire cannons would likely be how we look at .50 BMG rifles today in terms of recreation. Mortars would probably be common too, but innovation with them would likely be not as much because if you start getting too fancy with the shells things would get expensive fast. Skill with military type arms would probably be a LOT more common than it is now. I can probably think of more...

ETA: CC'ing PDW's (or having them in cars) would probably be common and PDW type SMG's probably would be a lot better and cheaper (think an advanced Skorpion vz.61 like firearms, but not in shitty .32 ACP) . Normal cheap WW2 Grease Gun and Sten Gun like SMG's would also be really common due to LOW cost and people would probably make them in their garage other than the rifled barrel (if they want to be fancy).

I agree that LMG and PDW's would be more advanced. Stoner63 setting the stage for later designs we would be much better off now.

Kel tec would be pitching some crazy shit too I bet.

Posted: 1/20/2013 10:39:08 PM EDT

[#29]

I hate to say this but we would probably have seen one, if not more mass killings employing bipoded down SAW style LMGs if not GPMGs. They would be bad but probably not worse than what we've had.

Posted: 1/20/2013 10:41:08 PM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:
I hate to say this but we would probably have seen one, if not more mass killings employing bipoded down SAW style LMGs if not GMPGs. They would be bad but probably not worse than what we've had.

And we would had people carrying PDWs concealed to shoot back.......

Posted: 1/20/2013 10:41:45 PM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I hate to say this but we would probably have seen one, if not more mass killings employing bipoded down SAW style LMGs if not GMPGs. They would be bad but probably not worse than what we've had.

And we would had people carrying PDWs concealed to shoot back.......

No doubt...

Posted: 1/20/2013 10:42:36 PM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:
I hate to say this but we would probably have seen one, if not more mass killings employing bipoded down SAW style LMGs if not GPMGs. They would be bad but probably not worse than what we've had.

no

Posted: 1/20/2013 10:43:25 PM EDT

[#33]

If there were no NFA I wouldn't give a fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck about AR-15s.

Posted: 1/20/2013 10:43:44 PM EDT

[#34]

IMO alot more sbrs. Once you go short, 16" is for the birds.

Posted: 1/20/2013 10:44:55 PM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I hate to say this but we would probably have seen one, if not more mass killings employing bipoded down SAW style LMGs if not GMPGs. They would be bad but probably not worse than what we've had.

And we would had people carrying PDWs concealed to shoot back.......

No doubt...

That being said I've always dreaded what someone with ANY ranged firearm could do if they setup outside a school and had an inside man pull the fire alarm, most schools herd their kids outside via on or two entrances en mass and the shooter really would not have to aim. That + an emplaced LMG would be really fucking bad.

That being said I wouldn't care if the legalized MGs, etc.

Posted: 1/20/2013 10:45:02 PM EDT

[#36]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I want to spout lots of crap about my perfect AR15 for cqb or HD BUT.....

wouldn't i just want a FA Suppressed tavor at the end of the day?

No.

OOB next to your temple?

que es la significa de esta palabra "OOB"

Posted: 1/20/2013 10:46:52 PM EDT

[#37]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I want to spout lots of crap about my perfect AR15 for cqb or HD BUT.....

wouldn't i just want a FA Suppressed tavor at the end of the day?

No.

OOB next to your temple?

que es la significa de esta palabra "OOB"

OOB significantes un bomba atraz su cabeza

Posted: 1/20/2013 10:47:39 PM EDT

[#38]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I want to spout lots of crap about my perfect AR15 for cqb or HD BUT.....

wouldn't i just want a FA Suppressed tavor at the end of the day?

No.

OOB next to your temple?

que es la significa de esta palabra "OOB"

Out of battery.

A round goes off before the bolt is locked in the barrel.

Bad things can happen.

Posted: 1/20/2013 10:49:06 PM EDT

[#39]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I want to spout lots of crap about my perfect AR15 for cqb or HD BUT.....

wouldn't i just want a FA Suppressed tavor at the end of the day?

No.

OOB next to your temple?

que es la significa de esta palabra "OOB"

Out of battery.

A round goes off before the bolt is locked in the barrel.

Bad things can happen.

Oh god... I never thought of that... that would be so bad... I wonder if the Israelis or Aussies have ever had that happen with their issue bullpups.

Posted: 1/20/2013 10:49:47 PM EDT

[#40]

FA suppressed 10" beltfed 12 gauge.

Posted: 1/20/2013 10:50:46 PM EDT

[#41]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I hate to say this but we would probably have seen one, if not more mass killings employing bipoded down SAW style LMGs if not GPMGs. They would be bad but probably not worse than what we've had.

no

Yes

Posted: 1/20/2013 10:50:56 PM EDT

[#42]

n/m

Posted: 1/20/2013 10:51:14 PM EDT

[#43]

Quoted:

Quoted:

I want to spout lots of crap about my perfect AR15 for cqb or HD BUT.....

wouldn't i just want a FA Suppressed tavor at the end of the day?

No.

OOB next to your temple?

que es la significa de esta palabra "OOB"

OOB significantes un bomba atraz su cabeza

Hurrumph. it means i have a bomb behind my head?

Order of Battle????

Posted: 1/20/2013 10:51:55 PM EDT

[#44]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I hate to say this but we would probably have seen one, if not more mass killings employing bipoded down SAW style LMGs if not GPMGs. They would be bad but probably not worse than what we've had.

wtf is this shit?

And how do you have 549 posts in 2 weeks? Is this the sort of contributions we can continue to expect

I was just making an observation.

Posted: 1/20/2013 10:53:25 PM EDT

[#45]

14.5" suppressed AR with select fire
Glock 18
Super shorty
Fully auto 12GA just to make me giggle like a school girl
Fully auto suppressed .22

Posted: 1/20/2013 10:53:49 PM EDT

[#46]

No NFA? There would be a run on hacksaw blades.

Posted: 1/20/2013 10:53:50 PM EDT

[#47]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I want to spout lots of crap about my perfect AR15 for cqb or HD BUT.....

wouldn't i just want a FA Suppressed tavor at the end of the day?

No.

OOB next to your temple?

que es la significa de esta palabra "OOB"

Out of battery.

A round goes off before the bolt is locked in the barrel.

Bad things can happen.

Oh god... I never thought of that... that would be so bad... I wonder if the Israelis or Aussies have ever had that happen with their issue bullpups.

It's mainly an issue with goofballs doing mag dumps. Trained soldiers are not at too much risk of it, nut it can happen even on just clambering a round really.