i used to laugh at my uncles. When i would tell them stories about my basic training. They always told me how SOFT the army had gotten. I just chuckled and laughed at them figuring they were pulling my chain.

Now i sit here watching this crap and i can't beleive what i am seeing. Recruits sitting around cutting up with DI's. DI's sharing their family issues with recruits. WTF happened to the big man in the HAT that could inspire you through complete and total terror of HIS authority.

I hope these are toned down for TV to inspire "enlistment". If Basic has trully gotten this soft we are in trouble.

Thank god the marines at least still know how to train a soldier.

mike

Call them whatever you want. I define a soldier as a professional warrior. Any member of any armed forces on the ground is a SOLDIER. Infantry is infantry. The only difference is the mission at hand. The marines still stress a warrior mentality. They train to kill the enemy. When they graduate they have the skills to fight and deploy. Sadly the Army no longer does. If those recruits shipped to a combat zone the day after graduation. 90% would ship back the first week in body bags.

Watch the Basic training show. They are training them with the basics of military life. Little if any true combat skills. I know a lot more of this is taught at AIT. But from the looks of it Basic Training is just a bit harder than boy scout camp now days.

My 3 day mini bootcamp for NJROTC was harder than the stuff i see on this show....

A few things, here.

One-This is Fort Jackson. They are training pogues, REMF's, twinklefingers, and other slugs here. These are not combat troops.

Two-in 1986 The Army adopted a new policy towards recruits. I consider this the beginning of the end. "Trainee" was now a derogatory term, they were now "soldier" or "private". Physical contact between DI's and trainees was expressly forbidden (although you could always drag them around by their chinstraps!). When I served as a DI at Fort Dix (which thankfully has been closed as a training post) we were not supposed to drop trainees for infractions or for punishment, only for physical conditioning (Private Shitbird, your mouthing off in formation brings to mind your abysmal PT score. Drop and give me fifty). The Post CG, a General Beavers, personally intervened when we had a problem trainee, a two bit punk who cussed out DI's, lied, disobeyed direct orders, etc. Nice to have the support of your chain of command, huh? Every other weekend they had free time, where they had what was basically a carnival, game booths, food stands, and a live band. We caught male and female trainees fornicating in port a potties, under the food vendors trailers, in dark corners, etc. etc. None were disciplined or punished beyond what we gave them before the MP's picked them up.     Fortunately Beavers was sh*tcanned for conduct unbecoming for nailing a Colonels wife. He was just one example of what was wrong. He wasn't interested in turning out soldiers, he wanted them to write their Congressmen and say how swell he was. Trouble is, about half the trainees were good kids who WANTED to be tested. They didn't join for a free ride, and were let down by the whole experience.

Three-the feminization of the Army is a big reason this has happened, IMO. Adding females to the mix only creates friction. Mixing them with male trainees only creates problems. Additionally, the reduced standards for females presents a double standard that is hard to justify. Why should a male have to maintain higher standards to do the same job, for the same pay, as a female counterpart? Instead of the bar being maintained, it is lowered to ensure that a disproportionate number of females do not fail. Those responsible for this reside at the highest ranks of the military and in Congress.  Based upon my experience, even more females would fail at the lower standards the Army sets for them if they weren't allowed to slide. Oh, the things I've seen....

Four-The Army is quite a bit larger than the Marine Corps, as well as being a seperate branch, where the Corps is a department of the Navy. In fact the addage that the Marines are the "Men's Department" of the Navy is relevant here. In many ways, the combat organizations of the Army are the "Men's Department" of the Army.
The combat units I served in up until 1990 were full, for the most part, of guys who would have been disgusted with basic training as pussified as that. Not to say that "Basic Training" doesn't revolt me. I can only imagine what kind of NCO's stayed in during the last administration.

Five-I agree, the conduct of the trainees and DI's was disgusting. If I was going in today, I would go into the Marines. At the very least they have the integrity to resist most of the
silly, stupid, and dangerous "reforms" that the do gooder social experimenters in Congress have forced on the other services, whose leadership hasn't got the moral courage to denounce for what it is.

Six-I love the Army. I wish it's execution wasn't so flawed, though.

"This We'll Defend"

Tim

Did you catch the quote when they were doing a Tactical march WITHOUT weapons, where the guy says "It was really exciting to put on all the gear and pretend that we were in a real situation and anything could happen..."

I was like BARF!  Oh yeah, I've been shooting for the past 5 years, I didn't touch a real firearm until I was twenty one.  But I've shot two cases of 7.62x39, three cases of 7.62 NATO, at least 2,000 rounds of .45acp, and who knows how much 5.56 NATO in the past 5 years.  Did you notice that in the show they spent THREE days on weapons familiarization with that big neato plastic model of the M16A1 at the front of the class, and we got to see the DI put his cute little stick down everybody's barrel, but we never saw them fire a single round of ammunition at a shooting range?  Or was I in the bathroom for that part?

??????