Went to the Wanenmacher show here in Tulsa yesterday, it was the hugest show I have ever seen yet, anyway I only had a little over a hundred in spendable cash so I also decided to enjoy the cultural mystique that is the gunshow. One guy and I want to see if anybody remembers his name from this because I forgot it, he has a booth that sells all kinds of cdroms with a bunch of firearms manuals on them and militia stuff and some that are just wannabe tim mcveigh stuff, but when you walk up to the booth it has a big corrugated-plastic yellow and black "gunshow" style sign sign that says something like "Gunshow attendees and dealers found to be 60% to 80% undercover agents" I had to ask, I knew this was going to be one interesting fellow, so he starts up  "oh yeah radar imaging used covertly on people entering the show so we can see if they're wearing a badge on a lanyard around their neck because thats the way undercovers carry their badge." he did go into some detail later about the radar imaging could even read the stamped image or star or whatever on the badge agency name and number. Uh..huh...I'm sure our police and fed forces have nothing better to do, there was probably over 10k people there and I'm to believe that this guy is out there eneough to believe that 6000 of them are undercover? crazy $h!t, "Well to them I'm a terrorist and they want me gone, they blocked me in at the gas station last night and hassled me" he said as he pointed to some magazine article (anybody know which?) about him called something like "his name, A terrorist" I wish I could remember his friggin name, damn there's probably some crazy stories out there about him hiding on the internet. I wished we could have talked to him longer but me and my buddy who was with me were both at the point of no longer being able to restrain ourselves from laughter, we had to walk away.

I wonder if the cops sell to each other.

Hey Beer Slayer.
It wasn't a sixer later that brought you back to your senses was it? Sixer usually puts me well on my way to straight thinking!

BUSH SNIPER out.    [beer]

I think that there are a lot of "cops" from the "alphabet soup" group at shows, but I don't know if they've reached the point of saturation that he is speaking of. It's an interesting game from both sides of the tables. It seems like most of these "Xfile" guys are legends in their own minds, and are in need of medication. But if they "act" on their assumptions they only go to prove the feds and locals right.  Kepp you head down and watch your back!
TF

Oh yeah that fellow's name is something like "Tim Thomasin" from Nebraska. He's got the cheapest manual collection on CD that I've run into. He's got some real good CD's on the Civil War and Lincoln too.
TF

lights are on, nobody's home......

I don't know what is so funny. There are feds at every big gun show not to mention the ones participating on this site.

Then you have the guys that were USMC snipers during DS/DS.
I work at Barrett Mfg. When I go to a show and wear one of my polo's, there are ALWAYS the 50-60 people that are, or were Marine snipers. We have the largest concentration of former Marine snipers anywhere. Except for where you live!

 Ihave to say that the conspiracey nuts are probably planted to spread intentional disinformation and discredit the anti-govt folks who have genuine information on govt misdeeds.  I know for a fact that the 3 letter agencies will intentionally lie, even when the truth would serve them better.  I have 1st hand knowledge of this.
 There are incidences of so-called anti govt groups having meetings that turned out to be entirely composed of agency rats and undercover agents!!  The 60% figure is now doubt very high although I have personnally encountered atf and fbi agents at gun shows.

The last guy I talked to who was having "radar" problems was wearing tin foil over both ears and a tin foil beanie. I made a chain out of paper clips and hung it from his belt so it would drag the ground to short circuit the offensive radiation.

The guy was very appreciative and actually got enough relief that he no longer had to wear the tin foil beanie. Personally, I think he really didn't need the tinfoil on his ears anymore either. He had just become used to wearing it.

If anyone wants to read what the guy (Tim) acually says I've got one of his CD's with the "how to find agents" story on it.  If anyone has a site for me to upload to I will do so we all can read it firsthand. I do have a license from Tim to reproduce his stuff, and I will include any copywrite notice he wants me to. It's scary stuff that you might detect a pattern that you've been subject to.
TF
[(:|)]
PS. It's all in the PDF format so you'll need Acrobat 3 or 4 to read it.

you can upload to my server if you want, via ftp ftp://militanthippy.merseine.nu login as webpub password is webpub once uploaded the stuff for example ar15.jpg comes up on the webserver like http://militanthippy.merseine.nu/public/ar15.jpg

I'd be real interested to see it at least the how to spot an agent thing.

Are the 10-15% of gun show attendees and dealers who don't bathe included in that 60%?  I don't think that a high level of BO would be conducive to an effective sting operation.  If you can't stand to be close enough to the agent because of the stench long enough to do the deal how can you get busted?

So that only leaves 25-30% of attendees and delers left as good guys and among those are the con artists and rip offs.  Damn I must know the only 10 guys at shows that are safe to deal with!

ericm
be sure to let us know when and how it will be available. i am putting on the saran wrap on my head until I hear the truth....or was that aluminum foil

Okay erickm it's on your server (I believe if I did it right) so let me know if it worked!  And tell me what you think about this file!  Spread the news far and wide!
Take care and keep your powder dry, and your back to the wall!
TF
[(:|)]

Okay Thanks Tenderfoot, the link would be [url]http://militanthippy.merseine.nu/public/Identifying Undercover Activity & Agents B.pdf[/url]
if ya'll want to check it out, I'm going to read it right now

Okay great it must'a worked!
I'd like everyone to read this and give their opinion.  I have limited exposure to a few gunshows and would like someone who follows the circuit to give their two cents.
Thanks erickm for bringing this up and providing a place spread the word.
TF

Back when I first got into ar's(hmmm.., was it about 94), I was at a gunshow checking out one of Duncan Long's Ar books(Ar-15 Super Systems I believe).Anyways, while I'm thumbing thru this guy in a suit/business man lookin type walks over and stands by me and says "you like them assault rifles do ya son. I look up, smile and say "Well officer, I like the AR15, I find it's inherent accuracy and modular design very appealing, plus it's my generations rifle. I think in responsible hands their a great rifle" and walked away. He didn't say jacksh*t after that and didn't follow after.[:D]

There definetly are government agents at most gunshows.  I was at a gunshow recently with a friend who is the chief detective for a local sheriff's office.  With both saw a guy we recognized as an FBI agent from the nearby regional office.  Since we had worked several cases with this guy, we went over to speak to him.  When we went up to him to call his name he waved us off.  He basically was letting us know that he was working something and didn't want us to blow his cover.  We just kept walking and haven't seen or heard from him since.

I was at the Tulsa show on Saturday, but I left my badge at home. I wonder if the radar imaging system picked up my I.D. card? It does have a magnetic strip on the back, or maybe it detected my P.D. Sonitrol door access card. Either way, I guess I'm busted. On a more serious note, I enjoyed the show tremendously, it was the biggest show I'd ever been to, and it was encouraging to me to see so many Americans who likely have strong RKBA beliefs.
One thing that I don't think most people are aware of is that when a cop buys a gun, whether at a gunshow or gunstore, our application is generally delayed up to an hour simply because our fingerprints are on file in the NCIC computer system. So much for professional courtesy.
Mike

ericm,
the link didn't work

CHZ

A word to the wise....

"Watch your six."

I'll buy mags, ammo, cleaning supplies etc, with just about anyone.

But when it comes to guns, I make firearms transfers at gun shows pretty much ONLY with dealers I KNOW at the gun shows.

Aside from that, I make private party purchases which are legal in my state.

Another note (question) on the Tulsa show: Does anyone know what the deal was with the older guy and youger woman strolling the floor dressed in WWII Soviet era clothing?
Mike

Yes Tim is local Nebraskan and attends most of our local shows.  I just steer clear. You can be a customer of his for years and all of a sudden you have visited him one time too many. He will accuse you of being an alphabet agent trying to set him up.  I saw him get in one Iowa dealers face durring show set up accusing him of following him through out his travels in Nebraska and taking pot shots at him with a 22 rimfire rifle.  
Tim was so close to going on his butt that day.

He is unstable and lives in some alternate universe.

Ahah!  A real person (I hope) has seen and talked to Tim besides me! I like his CD's for the TM's and FM's and he has some great stuff on the Civil War and President Lincoln. I didn't know how much of his "personal experiences to believe"  I present his works as information only, I neither believe nor disbelieve some of it, I'd rather each individual make up his/her own mind. Thanks again to erickm for making the website available and get this stuff exposed to the "many eyeballs" test.
TF

Thanks for the info David, if I ever see Tim again I'll give him a wide berth. The female comrade with Tim would have appeared almost normal but for her outfit.
Mike

Just to bring what I feel is an utterly idiotic practice to light, so we can all have a good laugh. ( I'm sure many of the board members are aware of this already, but just in case.) In my state, LEO's can pick up their newly purchased firearm on the same day, but they still have to be run through BCI & NCIC, as mandated by law. What doesn't make sense to me is that I'm currently carrying a firearm as I fill out the application to purchase !!! I guess LEO's are only trusted with their currently owned duty & off-duty weapons, just not with a newly purchased one ??? To see a fully uniformed LEO waiting to pick up his new purchase while he's being run the system is absolutely ridiculous. I guess that shouldn't surprise me when I consider many of the other recently enacted gun laws. A prime example is the AR-15's killing ability when fitted with a flash suppressor vs a muzzle brake. Another example of utter stupidity and your tax dollars at work. Regards,  Dom Pastore Jr.

Alright I'm probably going to get flamed for this but... I've only made it about halfway through the exposing agents manual on my site, and I'm convinced that any CIA/NSA/FBI/ATF surveillance being done on this guy is NOT ENOUGH, he says right in this text should he get killed mysteriously, he would expect his followers to target with anthrax and nerve gas thousands if not millions of people in the name of fighting a tyrranical government. Is that really the way to do it? Kill off EVERYONE so that the tyrants will have no one left to be tyrants to?? Very arrogant too, thinking his death no matter how wrong is somehow worth that many deaths of others. That's worse than Bin Laden's beliefs. I am all for free-speech and fully support his right to publish these cds, but I don't want thousands of people dead because some militia guy might have a bad day and decide to release anthrax in the middle of a city, and yes I know that is not what militia is all about, but they are people too and people f#ck up sometimes. Anymore I hear about feds watching this guy (not harassing or attempting murder) I will consider tax dollars at work.

I wonder if I popped up on radar any for standing at his booth talking to him and now having his text available on my server?

dpast32, good point about the how ridiculous it is to require LEO's to pass NICS.  Saturday, at a gun show at Jamil Temple in Columbia, SC, I saw a local sheriff's officer denied by NICS to purchase a long gun.  He was in uniform and carrying a gun.  It was embarrassing for him, and the dealer lost a sale.  The guy I went to the show with is a local city cop.  The purchase wasn't approved before the show closed, so he had to get a refund from the dealer.  

The poor LEO denied above was probably yet another victim of the NICS's confusion over identities.  I have a very uncommon name.  My first name starts w/ a 'Z', and my DI couldn't pronounce it so he started calling me Zoom.  Unfortunately, that nick name stuck.  Also, my social security number has a very uncommon prefix.  It was assigned to me by my former employer, not a state government, so it has an unusual prefix.  And, I still haven't passed their test yet.  How are they getting me confused?  I've always had to wait until it "timed-out."  I went with my 18 year old niece to buy a 22 rifle at Wal-Mart, and NICS turned her down.  I don't think she's a felon or has committed a domestic violence offense.

About Tobiason's problems with his CD copier, it sounds like he is attempting to use Microsoft Windows.  Of course it is going to be unreliable.  Geez...

If you can't see a difference as far as a waiting period between a full time LEO and a private cotizen w/o a Concealed Weapons Permit, it's going to very difficult to explain it to you. You claim to have a dozen guns in the vehicle, OK that's a fact. Now, where did you obtain them ? Are they all legal ? Are you a convicted felon, FFJ or any ther malcontent ? ( Not you personally, just in a general sense for the sake of argument.) NOW, before I go any further, I personally do not believe in ANY waiting period, for anybody. However, it is the law of the land. If you are a full time LEO, currently on duty, you are ASSUMED to be a law abiding citizen, who is already in possession of a legally obtained & authorized firearm, and entrusted by the public with the said firearm. Do you see what I mean ? If not, no amoumt of reasoning is going to convince you otherwise. As for living under the same rules as everybody else, that's not true. Many times, we have to live under stricter rules of conduct. In addition to public law, I have to live under my Dept's "Rules Of Ethics", which believe me, can be a pain in the ass at times. If we screw up, it usually makes at least the second page of the daily paper. LEO should conduct themselves with the utmost integrity at all times, not just when on duty. OK, I'm getting tired of typing for now, but I just had to respond to that last post. Regards,   Dom Pastore Jr.

Yup I understand it crystal clear. If you are a civilian you are ASSUMED to be a criminal and must submit to NICS and waiting periods no matter how many guns you already legally own.

Somebody, please put a badge on a string around your neck and let it flop out when bending over Tim's table to look at something.

I hate to see all of that paranoia go to waste.

See? That started an argument! Among ourselves even, think how this would look to an antigun freak looking for our soft underbelly!  Speaking for our little hick town I enjoy seeing our own Barney Fife's, Dudley Dorights, have to squirm like the rest of us under the feds looking glass. These "local yokels" think they are God's gift to humanity!  Maybe the "real cops" are a bit more professional, I hope so!  These jerks wouldn't last five minutes in a "real crime" environment!
TF
[:(!]

i had the pleasure to be standing next to a LEO when his NIC'S came back DENIED.kinda made my 3 hour delay worth it.he walked away saying something about an ex-wife & a restraining order.mmk

  As a former member of the local constabulary I can presonally attest to the fact that there are a lot of LEO's (local PO'S)) in attendance at the shows.  I do not have a problem with that because most locals are pro-gun types that will stand-up for the right to private firearms ownership.  
   As for the ATF/FBI types,  I have been attending most of the shows in a large metropolitan area for more than 15 years and I purchase a table from time to time,(mainly to give my feet a break from walking the show) and I have talked to many dealers about the "government agents" question.  They seem to believe that it is not that big a deal and that the actual number at any given show probably averages out to be around three.
 

   I was in attendance at the Tulsa show this past sat. (for 11 hours) and I could not believe the crowd.  It was difficult to walk up and down the isles because of the masses!  It was the same way the previous weekend at Market Hall in Dallas.  Its hard to believe there is so much anti-gun hoop-la when the gunshows can attract so many people even when there is a show every weekend in N Texas!    Why, I can remember when there were only 3-4 shows a year around here.............


EX GI  10-10 an listen'n in   :)  

I was there for only 4 or 5 hours and just trying to make my way through the damn crowd wore me out as much as a whole day of scr3wing.

I've made it through the rest of the ID'ing undercovers, THIS GUY IS A NUTBAR, I would think show promoters wouldn't want the liability of having him around, he might just think the whole thing is a staged show and decide to anthrax the building. I did find some funny quotes..


"I overheard two of the dealers comment out of earshot that they would be able to have anormal gunshow next week without me there (since this one was staged)"


"“for you a$sholes listening on the phone, I am going to describe how to make
Malathion into nerve gas, and how to strap it to the mufflers of every
secretary’s car going into Washington DC. When the plastic melts they will
gas the city. I’ll teach that in my next book."

"I followed the disaster at Gettysburg with a gun show at Lansing Michigan with
the “same old, same old” except that on Saturday night they used a loudspeaker from the
park next to the fairgrounds where I was trying to sleep, to keep me awake. About every
20 minutes they would turn on the speaker and emit obnoxious noise for a few seconds,
just enough to wake me up. Then they would turn it off. I was amazed someone didn’t
call the police. About one in the morning I had had enough. Since they have my van
bugged, I told them that if they do that one more time, I will get up and drive my van
around to the park and drive into them at high speed and let a Michigan jury decide who
is assaulting whom (and I meant it). The loudspeaker noise ended."

"It became so
frequent and annoying that at Kansas City and Oklahoma City gun shows I
became exasperated with the agents and told them that “I am perfectly capable of
killing people, wiping out cities and committing crimes if I desire to do so without
any encouragement or assistance from the government of the United States and its
undercover agents, Thank you very much!!!.”"

Okay well I'm glad I got a second opinion or two!  Guess Tim is off his medication again!
TF
[;)]