Well today I had to take both of my boys to the doctor to get there check-ups and shots. My five year old son is starting kindergarden in september and my four year old son needed his yearly check up and shots also.

Anyway before we get to see the doctor I had to fill out some paper work and one of the forms asked to fill out was a survey called: The Injury Prevention Program-Framingham Safety Survey put out buy the American Academy of Pediatrics and on the form it says that it is Dedicated To The Health of All children. Also on the form it says that it is Supported By a Grant From Pfizer Consumer HealthCare.
On the top of the form it says that it is for children ages 5-9.

On this form are questions as followed: Notice the very first question:

1. Is there a gun in your home or the home were your child plays or is cared for?

2. Do you let your child operate a power lawn mower?

3. Have any of your children ever had any injuries requireing a visit to the doctor or hospital?

4. How frequently is the heating system checked in your home?

5. Do you and your children know how to get out of your home safely in the event of a fire?

6. Does anyone in your home ever smoke?

7. Does your child play with matches or lighters?

8. Do you have working fire extingguishers in your home?

9. Does your child play with firecrackers or sparklers?

10. Do you have working smoke alarms in your home?

11. Does your child know how to swim?

12. Does your child know the rules of water and diving safely?

13. Does your child wear a life jacket when on a boat?

14. Does your child use a booster seat or seat belt when riding in the car on every trip at all times?

15. Does your car have a passenger air bag?

16. Do your children cross the street by themselves?

17. Has your child learned about bicycle safety?

18. Does your child wear a helmet every time he or she rides a bike?

19. Does your child participate in sports?

20. Does your child participate in horseback riding?

Well I sat and filled out the survey, and then upon going into the doctors office the nurse asked for the survey. I told her that I will not be giveing back the survey and personally I found many of the questions very intrusive and really non of there business. I then said and pointed to the first question which is about guns. I said you know this question is nobodys business not the doctors, and definetly not the American Academy of Pediatrics.

She just smiled at me and said I will make sure to tell the doctor. I said ok. Funny thing the nurse who is usually not in a good mood, was very nice to me after this.

I wonder what the doctor would have said if she found out that at the time of the office visit I was carrying my concealed handgun legally of course?

What is it with the medical community putting there noses in our lives?

Another thing I found interesting is another one of the questions who in the world lets there 5 year old child mow the yard? Kinda a stupid question if you ask me.

Has anyone else with kids ever had to fill out this survey and what was your response to it?

While I certainly agree with you that what guns we have is none of their GD business, we also have reached the day & time that parents seem to have NO sense whatsoever.

How many stories have we seen where kids are left in a locked car in the summer? Or other such stupid BS? These are, IMO, a way for supposedly "smarter" people to help those who are not the sharpest knife in the drawer. While I would've done the same thing you did with it, it may indeed help some stupid SOB to think, "Gee, I've never thought about that."

Flame away.  >gg<

What you should have done was give all of the [b]wrong[/b] answers using tons of misspelled words and sloppy handwriting.

That always throws 'em for a loop.

the_reject

[ sarcasm on]Yea if I answered the questions in an irresponsible way the doctors office probably would have reported me to the Childrens protective services and then I would have the government agency turning my life upside down and my kids being taken away from me.[sarcasm off]

Really though I had thought about doing what the reject had said, but I thought you know what these doctors need to have someone tell them they have no business poking there nose into my life and my childrens life and it is nobodies business whether I or any one else I know has or does not have guns in there home.

Grrrrrrrrr, makes me mad.

And the stupid sheepol of america just let this crap go on and not say anything about it.

My basic philosophy is that since they have no right to know certain pieces of information, they thus have no right to a truthful answer.  I lie like a rug in those cases.

An N/A or blank is taken as a "yes" anyhow, so lie to them, tell them what they want to hear and be done with it.

This has been going on for some time. This is the AMA trying to turn violence, especially done with a firearm, into a social/medical epidemic. If they can show supporting evidence that you have a child and a gun, you must be ignorant or a very bad parent and need to be "educated" on the dangers of firearms!!!! 43 times more likely....

My sister is a nurse specializing in children in the PRC, no less, and says that this is a drive by the AMA, supported by all the anti-gun factions to elevate the "epidemic" of gun violence.

Lying supports their position.

Sheeple tend to fill it out without question because they think that you have to do whatever the doctor says. He knows best. Most don't realize that you pay for his opinion and time and that you are in charge and make the decisions about your life and what he can or cannot do to you. People blindly do whatever a doctor tells them even if it is wrong. That is wrong and needs to be changed.

I always inform the doctor what the boundries are with me or loved ones. If he is in the middle of an exam and you don't feel right about it, stop the exam and leave. Report it.

I'd report him to the board for his intrusive "survey".

You did the right thing. It's far too intrusive. If they want that information, they can hire a survey firm or something of that nature.

When my daughter was born last November, right before we left the hospital this little homo-looking guy brought a gift basket by the room for the wife (full of stuff like extra diapers, Desitin, toys, etc.) and gave a little farewell speech. You know, thanks for choosing the hospital, thanks for having insurance with deep pockets, etc. So, right before he left the room, he said, "Oh, we would like to send a nurse by to inspect your home for safety issues, considering you have a new baby and all." So I tell him no thanks, I know what the issues are. I understand the issues my brother had with my nephew and niece plus I've been doing a lot of reading. So the guy asks if we have relatives nearby who can guide us the first few weeks. So I said yes, very close as a matter of fact, my mother's one mile away, the sister-in-law three miles away, etc. So, I ask him what the hell does that have to do with safety? No answer. So the guy says he strongly suggests we have the nurse come by and inspect the house, so again I say no thanks. Finally, the little homo left the room in a hush (but I still got the gift basket.) So, we get home and after a couple of hours we get this call from a contract nurse and she says she wants to make an appointment to come by and see the house. So, I'm like what the hell? I already told the little persistent fvcker that I don't need anyone to come by and catalog my gun collection... I mean inspect the house. So I told her thanks, but no thanks. I never heard from them again.

Anyway, they were persistent as hell in having their inspector come by and check out the house. What the hell's with that?

Yea...my wife are raising our grandkids.  She took the three year old boy to the quack and she was given the same survey to fill out...which she did! [shock]

When she got home and told me about this strange survey that they asked her to fill out, I was really pissed [pissed], but it was too late, they had the info.  I explained that when we fill out the applications to purchase a firearm, the info goes into the state and federal database...BUT, under the law, it is supposedly deleted after a very limited amount of time...unlike the info that she had just given to the doctor!  I didn't want it to sound like a major scolding, 'cause I still have to live with the lady, but I had to explain that it was none of their damn business and if ever requested to fill one of those out again, to please decline.

Oh...and NOT all MDs are big believers in the "Evil of Firearms".  Try this out:

[url]http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/usr/wbardwel/public/nfalist/guns_and_violence.txt[/url]

Its a bit long...but it clearly makes the point that guns don't kill people...people do.  Says that packing heat is a good thing too...AND, it's written by a bunch of MDs.

The SS tried that with my sister too. Only they presumed that it would be done, and kept trying to schedule it. Not asking if, but when. They wanted to make sure the home was safe. The kicker was they wanted to do a series of consultation visits to make sure she knew how to breast feed. Sis told em "This is my fifth child, and they've all been breast fed and are quite healthy. I think I can manage."

"All your offspring are belong to us."

[size=1]Sorry, I couldn't help myself...[/size=1]

Oh shit...I remember now!

"It Takes a Village" by Her Royal Queerness...err...Highness, Hillary Clinton!  That's where these folks are coming from.  We just aren't capable of raising our kids alone folks.  We really need intrusive government.

It's for the children.

[puke]

Perhaps someone should inform the AMA that more people are harmed and killed by malpractice than by gunfire?

You were carrying in a medical building?  Isn't that illegal?  It is here in MI anyways.

Keving67

I don't support the AMA.

The Amer Acad of Pediatrics is the most left wing bunch of libs you'll ever run into.

However, I can tell you from experience that a large proportion of those who bring their kids to the doc on a regular basis don't know jackshit about parenting and don't often even care that much about their childrens health other than the fact that if they are ill it is a MAJOR inconvenience to them. The Medical Assistance bunch that I see regularly is really something.
I'll also note that docs have been sued in the past for failing to discuss prevention issues(often common sense issues), ie "they never told me that." Whine, whine, whine. All to often Familiy Practice docs(me) and Pediatricians are expected to teach parenting. We don't have the time. This is something that was once taught by the parents of parents. No longer. As a result our children ARE at risk. There is no doubt about that IMO.

However, I would never fill out such a survey. You don't have to either. It is probable that your individual doc had no say over whether this survey is presented to patients or not. In the world of gov't driven medical corporations the docs have only a little more say than the janitors. Nothing against janitors BTW. There are plenty of days that I wish I was one.

Absolutely nothing will happen to the doc, I can assure you. As I said, the doc probably didn't even make the decision to present this survey. But even if they did this type of thing is relatively common and there would be no consequences for the doc or the clinic.
If you want to have an impact tell the doc and the clinic administrator(the number crunchers run healthcare these days--once again driven by the gov't)and that if it persists you will take your family elsewhere. Nothing speaks like money. If you really like your doc just throw the thing in the trash when you go there. That's my 98 cents on the subject.

You were under no obligation to participate in the survey. You opted not to.  That is your prerogative.
 
The nurse may have been smiling at your combative response.  Ironic, isn't it?  When you pointed out the specific nature of your objection, I'm sure that you gave the nurse the answer to the one question that you were trying to avoid.  

Clever you.  

The American Academy of Pediatrics is one of several medical organizations that are on the NRA's [url=http://www.nraila.org/FactSheets.asp?FormMode=Detail&ID=15]List of National Organizations With Anti-Gun Policies[/url].

This also helps explain why very the first question on the survey is about guns — they believe that gun ownership is inherently dangerous, and want to plant that belief in impressionable new parents, too.

After reading some of the responses to the topic post, I wonder why people are willing to lie about something that they safely support, that is, the individual right to own firearms.

Why try to conceal this?
Why hide from something about which you could be proud?  
I don't believe that guns are inherently unsafe.  Potentially dangerous, yes, but not necessarily a threat to children.  Evidently, you are unable to express faith that your house is a safe one.
"lie like a rug"?  Do you think that by admitting here that you are a man of little integrity, who is not worth his word, who is a liar, is a way to combat the AAP's position?  the_reject endorses dishonesty, and you consider this as an alternative?  I'd be ashamed to compromise my honesty in this way.

Doctors are, no crap, the [b]third leading cause of death[/b].
[url]http://www.mercola.com/2000/jul/30/doctors_death.htm[/url]

Scott

Now, Scott, you really need to read a little more carefully.

1)The deaths mentioned are due to medical related causes. The overwhelming majority of cases noted are NOT due to doctor mistakes. As I've said before, I wish some of you had any idea what it actually takes to become a physician. The Clinton administration was very anti-doc and the media fell right into line with that. Many here have jumped on the same bandwagon. Would you be so willing to accpet similar reports concerning gun possession? Free speech? Freedom of religion?
Most med related deaths are due to mistakes by nurses or pharmacists.

2)How many people would die without medical care? Or have there life shortened? I know I've saved or extended the lives of very many.

3)There are a very small minority of docs who should not be practicing medicine. They do eventually get weeded out.

4)Infant mortality and lifespan in this nation are largely related to lifestyle. Huge efforts are made by physicians and the medical community to get people off of their fat asses, quit smoking, take care of themselves and their babies while pregnant, etc. Good luck.
Prevention is the key to long life. Not medical care once you have numerous chronic medical probelms. Same can be said for those that complain about the high cost of their medications. Why should I, or you, pay for their meds?
Hey, people have a right to do stupid things in this country. But when you do so you will likely suffer some consequences.

5)Dr. Mercola has obviously got an axe to grind. Your fear may generate money for him. Seems that he has learned from CNN, etc. And learned well.

That being said there are obviously problems. They are worse in certain regions and facilities. There are alot of people who are on more medications than what they should be. That is a problem. However, understand that often these people continuously go various doctors(doctor shopping) don't reveal everything they know(often intentionally, believe it or not) and/or don't tell their doc about all the meds they are taking. They will present weekly with numerous complaints and be placed on an ever increasing number of medications.
Further hospital and clinic administrators are only interested in the bottom line. In a large institution malpractice is simply considered a cost of doing business. It would be better, in my not so humble opinion, if doctors ran medical care. They no longer do so. This has been driven by the government by getting people like you to buy whatever hogwash they can spoon feed you by using the liberal media. Not a flame but this really is the cases. So, yeah, there are some problems but overall healthcare in this country is still some of the best in the world.

Fear?

Fear sells. Don't think I need to expound on that but I will if I need. Just watch CNN, Dateline, etc etc. Daytime TV is full of it.

BTW, I meant fear in the generic sense. Not directed at you personally.

By sarcastically using the opposite ('clever'), you seem to be saying you think he was stupid.

He wasn't TRYING to be clever, so why the weak, juvenile attempt to be cute?

If enough firearms owners give them an assertive (didn't sound combative to me) response, objecting to such questions, and very clearly explaining that they were switching their children to doctors who didn't use intrusive questionnaires, there would be less of them.

Maybe the nurse was smiling because she didn't realize that was a GUN in his pocket [:D]

Here's a good response: if a doctor or clinic asks if there are guns in you residence.

"Suppose I say yes, are you going to advise me it's unsafe? If so, and I get rid of them based on your advice and later on I or someone in my family is assaulted or murdered because we can longer defend ourselves, is your medical malpractice insurance going to compensate me for losses caused by your erroneous advice?  [i]After the pause...[/i] ask if their malpractice insurance company is aware they are performing non-licensed activities from the confines of the clinic?  Then ask for the name of their insurance company so you can verify they are qualified to advise patients on home safety and security.

I think they'll get the message..mine did.

Yes, I was being sarcastic.  You recognized this.  Clever you.

I have no reason to believe that prk is stupid.  In fact, I don't think that he is stupid.

I have difficulty understanding the concept of a nurse who smiles because of something she "[i]didn't[/i] realize" [emphasis added].

It's in the context of the joke that's been around a while, "Are you happy to see me, or is that a gun in your pocket?"  

The 'happy to see me' part is a reference to something called an "erection", which is an engorgement of penile tissue with blood, causing a stiffening and bulging, which might be visible to the nurse.

In other words, the nurse might not realize that he was carrying a gun, and think that he had an erection of good proportions, causing her to smile if she were pleased by that thought.

The "he" I referred to was the original poster, Minuteman3.

Oh, gotcha.
Didn't catch that.
Now that I look at the capitalization of the word, I have a better understanding.  Too bad that I didn't get it before.  Didn't mean to pick on you.  Sorry.  (Kinda hard, sometimes, to interpret the meaning of words without the benefit of tone or facial gestures. . . guess that I'm too accustomed to verbal conversation.  I'll get used to this eventually.)
No hard feelings, I hope,
IMHO  

Any surveys like that, I reply "since I am not a paid test subject, I will not contribute data to your survey. Should you wish to retain me as a test subject I should warn you that your budget fails to come close to the amount that would be required."

Damn straight.

I can envision a situation where as HMOs such as Kaiser become more and more prevalent (the insurance carrier is also the provider), you will have no choice but to respond, as there is no place for you to go and no one to complain to.

Time for some answers..

does a US M1 Abrams battletank count?

no, they cant reach the pushbar yet.

i was a kid once. were you? (kids are stupid, get themeselves hurt. sometimes a emergency room visit is needed.

Enough.

yea. OUT THE WINDOW. do you walk through the fire?

Only when their on fire....

Only when they try to light the cat on fire.

Do you? thought so.

Did you? or were you deprived as a child?

yea.. aunt mabel sets them off every time she lights up, then a beat her senseless with toilet paper.

only with floaters.

yea.. dont drowned.

no.  (no boat.. but im not telling them that!)

I belt them in and then wrap them up in webbing to make sure they cant get free.

My side doesnt,, why should the other side?

no, they fly across.

i think. tricycle would be a more apt term.

again.. TRIKE!

if they pay me enough.

no, kind hard for a horse to walk in 40 bellow temps..


no never, but you can see my responses.

27.  Does your child wear eye/ear protection while handling firearms?

Gentlemen and gentle ladies,

The next time ANY doctor asks you about firearms or counsels you about firearms, please give them this handy form, and ask them to fill it out [b]and sign it[/b]:

The Physician Qualification and Liability Form
http://[url]www.keepandbeararms.com/information/XcIBViewItem.asp?id=2135[/url]

Nooooo Problem!  [:D]

I don't see that happening. It's extremely unlikely that you will ever have to divulge personal information to anyone. However, I would admit that if anyone were ever going to try to force the issue it'll be the gov't or insurance companies.
FWIW, surveys such as these don't ask for names(not sure about this one). They are trying to do a statistical survey and identify risk factors for childhood injury not keep track of you personally. That being said, I would just throw the thing in the trash. But as I've stated, raising an objection with the administrator of the clinic is your best way to voice a protest. Also tell your doc nicely that you find the survey objectionable. Telling the receptionist or nurse your objection is pretty much useless.
The best way to get any business policy changed is to hit them in the pocketbook. Soccer mommies learned that long ago. I'll tell you, we could really learn something from the liberals in this country when it comes to getting organized as a financial and voting group. Look what happened in 1994 elections after the Klintons screwed us. That's the best thing conservative males have done in 50 years. We need to maintain that kind of energy indefinitely, however.

The KABA article were my thoughts exactly ... just didn't know it was there.

Will take a copy to my doctor Friday on my annual checkup visit.

They probably take those surveys and twist and turn them anyways they can to have something to backup their FALSE STATISTICS and other B.S. they cram into the heads of those who will listen and believe them. What would Doctors do if it weren't for DANGEROUS THINGS?IMHO.

How does one hit them in the pocketbook when they are both insurance carrier and provider and your company offers no other plans? This is the situation I am referring to. It's very common in the SF Bay Area where Kaiser is king.

Anyway, I hate to piss them off because I know they have an ICD/9 code for "asshole." he he

Never seen anything like that around here. Sounds like a blatant anti-trust case. In fact, the corporation I work for tried something vaguely similar a few years ago, though nowhere near so obvious, and lost a huge lawsuit, complete with fines and penalties. However, in your case I'd say your screwed[sex]



You're right! hehehe.[:D]

I totally agree with what most of you guys are saying. Hell, I've gotta work with these people. I am finally in a job where I like the people I work with. Hasn't been easy to find. I wish you guys had some idea of what the past 12 years have been like. You should've seen my first day in med school. 32 years old, 2 kids, ex-jarhead. I walk into the auditorium and it's geek central. 200 of 'em. I'll spare you the rest.[):)]