[url]http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=28656[/url]

                           "In China, the main cause of infanticide is government
                           regulations," explains Dr. William Zinker, described in
                           the Humanist essay as one of the foremost scholars on
                           China studies and female infanticide. "Only one child
                           per couple in cities is permissible and two in the
                           countryside if they are born at least three years apart.
                           Traditionally, males are more significant in China
                           because they are expected to support their parents, as
                           a type of insurance policy that will abet their parents in
                           old age. Females do not have the same usefulness, so,
                           therefore, to eschew paying fines to the government,
                           parents kill their female offspring. The impact is great.
                           Female infanticide is not merely a moral cause. In fact,
                           through my research and other historical data, it has
                           been concluded that the gender gap in China could
                           have calamitous consequences in the long run."

                           Zinker explains that China is now importing women --
                           not as potential brides for the heavily male population,
                           but as prostitutes.

                           He predicts the possibility of a "bachelor revolt" in the
                           country on the basis of historical parallels.

                           "The men who cannot get a woman will group
                           together as small-scale bandits and cause a rebellion,"
                           he says. "China openly admits it has 80 million adult
                           males who will never marry. Many of these men live
                           on all-male 'bachelor farms.'"

                           Chinese girls, at a premium, are now married off at
                           younger and younger ages, he says – often as young
                           as age 12 or 13.

                           Saini cites a 1997 report in WorldNetDaily that there
                           were 50 million fewer women in China due to the
                           institutionalized killing and the neglect of girls under
                           Beijing's population control program.

                           The Humanist uses the touching essay to promote
                           groups working to end global overpopulation – many
                           of which, ironically, support China's population control
                           program.

It frightens me too think that a parent ..  And so many parents..  can just kill their new born child.  You can bet they will have no problem killing American children without remorse when it comes to war with the West.

It is a plus for the US and the world this is happening to them...


Actually....  What's the difference between us killing ours before their born and then only after..  none...  they are both acts of Murder..

Realist out

I'll catch flames for this....(like I care  [}:D]  )


Fitty million.

Makes what is going on in the Middle East appear like small taters.

Where's the righteous indignation????? Is it cuz they are not God's Chosen Chinks???

It's cuz they are the most populace nation on Earth, can't feed or supply themselves, and eventually (if there population is allowed to expand further) they will need war to meet their needs (kinda like Japan).

If they kill off their breeding stock, good.  Less people to pop out little soldiers in the future.

I believe the cause of these 50 million murders will be traced directly to the Palestinians living in the Occupied Territories.

Israel saved another 1.5 Billion from murder because they are Chinas second largest trading partner.

No, its not. Its a gov't policy of genocide against women.




Nice hatred you got goin' on there, pal.

Don't EVER try using humanity, morality, human decency, or civility as a reason we should do something to stop the killing in Israel.

You got NO credibility.

You suck.

redman -

Since you are apparently illiterate (in addition to be an ignorant bigot) I quoted the significant part of the article that CLEARLY SHOWS CHINAS GOV'T HAS A POLICY PROMOTING INFANTICIDE OF WOMEN.

Glad to be of help.

[rolleyes]

Jeepers, I'm afraid that there must be [u]no[/u] subject under the sun that some cannot find a reason to bitch about Israel!

I have the same attitude about the Red Chinese that I had about Germany during the Third Reich - if you don't like the way your country's headed, you change it by peaceful means.

If that doesn't work, then by non-peaceful means!

If you do neither, then you are simply part of the problem.

Voluntarily murdering your female offspring just in order to facilitate your comfort in old age is not acceptable.

You may call it being 'forced' to kill your children by a coercive government, but in truth you are choosing to kill simply cause you don't want to pay the fine, or you wish to try for a boy next time.

Either way, the Chinese folks who choose to do this are being very deceptive in this matter, if they blame it simply upon governmental force!

Eric The(Realistic)Hun[>]:)]

The very essence of moral relativism.

And NO, its NOT a bitch about Israel.

its a bitch about  whining about a few thousand dead israelis, or a few hundred Paly children whose parents encourage them to strap on bombs (the very essence of child abuse) ....

...and then finding the WHOLESALE GENOCIDE OF FIFTY MILLION to be ONLY "not acceptable."


I gotta go [puke]

And Eric, I can't beleive you pushed this off on the Chinese parents, when you blame Arafat for the Paly children strapping bombs on.

Its a massive contradiction.

I'm not really interested in your "lawyering" away an explanation.  What you've already said is clear enuf to me. No explanation required.


Israeli life > Chinese life.

[rolleyes]

This is not news.  

I remember reading, and hearing people bitch about, this 25 years ago!!  Since we are now "trading partners" with China, I cannot believe that we will make any more of a stink about it now, than we did way back then.

[b]Japan started WW II because of their lack of birth control ??[/b]

I bet the ChiComs really care what we think about the issue.

While not "new" its IS still "news."

America has too much of a financial interest in China to worry about 50 million lives lost.

"I tremble for my country, when I realize God is a God of (final) justice."

You got this right !

And why is that? Cuz we've done NOTHING to give them a reason to care.

Yet we've done PLENTY to make people in the Middle East care about the US's opinion.

Again, the math is simple - 1,000's of Israeli lives > 50 million Chinese lives.

Population Growth is a serious problem and one that has a direct bearing on us. China, parts of the Middle East, India, much of Indonesia, much of South and Central America, Mexico and much of Africa are becoming so over populated that something has to be done. The state sponsored practices in China are really sad, but they really have little other options.

But the restriction on births is only one way that China is attacking their population growth problem. The State also promotes, and perhaps carries out, a policy of immigration, legal or otherwise. One of the biggest destinations is the US. Many of these immigrants are shipped here illegally and the majority of illegal alliens entering the US are from Asia, not Latin America. These people still hold a primary connection with their homeland and do not consider themselves [i]American[/i] but rather Chinese living in America.

If we were to intervene and force a change of policy in China, the result would be an increased influx of Chinese into the US and other Nations that are less crowded. And that is something that we really don't want.

So until someone can come up with an alternative policy and figure out a way to deal with population growth, there is little that cane be done.


[url=knifeforums.com/~jrichardson/B&W/rbboris2.wav]Impossible[/url]

Garandman..  your a little off here..  if the Chinese Govt. were promoting it, then their missing the boat on the sale of 50 million baby whole live babies for parts..

The parents choose to kill there infant daughter for old age retirement..  bottom line..  they had a choice..

I'm really surprised at the "Oh well, what are you gonna do" attitude.

50 million. Thats over FIVE times even the most inclusive estimates of the Holocaust.

And its going on TODAY.

And no one cares.

Realist,
I didn't want your point to get lost in the weeds.

I may be a little confused about early term abortion but I'm quite clear on partial birth abortion.  

[b]I see no difference between partial birth abortion murder and the Chinese murdering infants.  Both are murder.[/b]

We might look to our own house first.

They face a fine (the article doesn't indicate how large a fine, but given China IS a communist country, you can bet the fine is QUITE severe)

They have a "choice" just like you have a "choice" not to pay taxes.

Don't eloquate to me about their "choice" until YOU exercise YOUR choice.

They don't pay the fine, (which likely they can't - Communism tends to impoverish people) they go to jail. Then who takes care of THEIR children???

Some "choice."

Again, I can't beleive the "Oh well" attitude.

I dont think it's nobody cares, But more so, what can be done about it?  Nothing IMHO..

Maybe the world order can step in and prosecute all the dead babies parents... (sarcasim) [;)]  

Hey, Sherlock, my comment above is parodying the Israel Firsters.

Even before 50 million Chinese.

No, they started it because of lack of circumcision...there was no end to those pricks.
[:D]

So what are we waiting for???
Let's go nuke China and kill a few hundred million of them!  It's the least we can do to save those 50 million babies, right?

[b]If/when self righteous sanctimonious hobby horses are going to banned I predict a large drop in in GDF posts !![/b]


psssst...if you hear anything let me know so i can clean out my barn first.

Actually, this is ONE problem we CAN solve. VERY cheaply.

We DO NOT give China MFN status, we end trade with China, and the Chinese Communist gov't collapses under its own weight (as communism ALWAYS does - see "Russia")

A bit of anarchy ensues, but in not too long a time the free market begins to control (see "Russia")

And the Chinese Communist policy of rewarding infanticide ends.

Do you REALLY think that China has existed for over 4,000 years, but its only in the last 40 they suddenly developed a population problem?

Please.

Post from garandman -

Meds not working yet? [:D]

How in the friggin Hell did I 'push this off' on the Chinese parents?

The Red Chinese government is a POS government that, if it is possible, actually makes Arafat look [u]somewhat[/u] sane!

But the Palestinian parents, who film themselves gleefully with their soon-to-be-martyred sons, laughing and ululating all the way to the First National Bank of Ramallah with their fat checks from Saddam & the Saudis in their pockets, have never been let off the hook by me!

Have you ever posted those photos of these POSs dancing with their checks?

No? Why? I have! They are just as corrupt and as immoral as Chairman Arafat, who lifts not a finger to stopr them. Who doesn't threatened to confiscate whatever money they might receive from outside sources, who in fact does nothing to stop it!

Only in your own mind, because there is no contradiction - both the governments of Red China and the Palestinian Authority, AND the citizens who condone and profit from such idiotic actions are to blame.

[b]Tell me where I've said anything different![/b]

C'mon, let's hear it! Heh-heh-heh! [:D]

It appears that the only thing that you are interested in is my 'lawyering', for you seem to hold tightly onto [u]that[/u], for a fact.

For whatever shitty reason you may have.

Son, you need a [u]whole[/u] lot explained to you it appears.

Israeli life worth more than Chinese life?

Not at all, shame on you for thinking so!

It sure does appear from all the evidence that Israeli parents think their children are worth more than some Chinese folks think their female children are worth.

Isn't that what [u]you[/u] got out of the story?

Eric The(IDid!)Hun[>]:)]

Ahhhhh, an answer I can understand !!!

(lmao [:D])

RikWriter, LOL..  have you stumbles across a new Oxy-Moron?   [:)] it's their "approximate solution"  to "Government Organization"  [:D]

Hun, I just cannot believe you would type all these words.

Distressing, truly distressing.

[EDITED] Sorry, subsailor, this is one time I simply cannot let you get away with altering my posts! [:D] And in my own backyard, yet!
The underlined parts were edited!

Post from garandman -

Hmmm, strange that you should bring up the Holocaust, and strange, too, that the language you used is so...well...DaMan-ish:

[i][b]'even the most inclusive estimates of the Holocaust'[/i][/b]

Why not just accept the commonly accepted  number of Six Million and go on with it?

Why quibble with the commonly accepted number? Would it make the Nazi conducted Holocaust any more or less horrific, if it were a couple of million either way?

That would mean that this Chinese female infanticide is more than EIGHT times the generally accepted number of dead in the Holocaust!

See how more effective that statement is with the right number in it?

Unless you dispute the number, that is.

Eric The(MathmaticallyInclined)Hun[>]:)]

Due to contractual restraints I am unable to discuss supplier relations.

End trade with China? All of our stores would be empty. We would hurt ourselves as much as them because they would just buy food and jeans somewhere else. Why not just write a nasty letter?

Garandman,

I think, there is a differance between palistinians murdering Israili's, and Chineese killing other Chineese. One is an (actually, hundreds of) act of terror, the other, is (in true communist form) an "internal problem".

(BTW: Any reason you (as it appears to me) support the paly's terrorist attacks, but not the 9/11 ones)?

As others have said, WTF differance does it make that the Chineese abort thier kids a few months later than we do here? So the've already popped out, what differance does that make? Would it be ok if they killed the same 50 million female kids a couple months earilier while still in the womb?

Seems to me, the issue here is "Chineese abortion at work!" -A look at the future of America, where the parents can choose what kids they want to kill or keep.

Israel is fighting terrorism, just like we are, using the same tactics. Pally's terrorize Israel, Israel attacks pally's. People who have some connection with A-gan terrorize US, US attacks people who have connection with A-gan.

It seems to me, that this article should only make us think about OUR views on abortion. Either it's right, or it's not.

I don't think it's right for those Chineese baby's to be murdered, and would like to stop it, but I will not risk ONE SINGLE AMERICAN LIFE to stop it, as it is an "internal" abortion issue. I would be more than happy to use the U.S. Military to take care of say, the U.N scum that think abortion is so grand. I would NOT use it to take out pro-abortionist in the U.S. Why? They are citizens, and until it is illegal to abort, they have as much a right to be pro-abortion as I do to be anti-abortion.

I feel it is sick, and wrong though. Equally as wrong as the pally terrorist issue, but as I have stated, the abortion issue is an "internal problem". If Israel was aborting Chineese in China, than we'd have good reason to intervene

Whatever, TTYL. (BTW, I just want to make sure you understand this is not a personal attack, I respect you and your views on many issues, but not on Israel, which I don't see WHY you had to bring into this).

-Justin

New Chinese national motto:

"Are your ho are belong to us."

or, how about:

"All your ugly womenz are belong to us."

he he

Actually, it's well known China has been importing fugly women from Taiwan for quite a few years now, but they were always reported to be for marriage, not as prostitutes. Hmm...

On a different note, I always wondered how the  Chinese guys at work were able to afford luxuries many of the American guys could not afford. Then one day my Chinese friend told me they do not contribute a dime to the 401k. Their children [b]are[/b] their 401k. So, they have more money to blow I guess. But I always thought children were expensive too?

Yes and no.

In one sense, there is no difference at all. Dead IS dead. Murdered IS murdered. Doesn't matter who killed who.

In another sense, there is a HUGE difference.

[b]50 million [/b]dead Chinese vs. maybe 5,000 dead Israelis. HUGE difference.



So yer tellin' me I should "calm down" about this, and your rationale for that is that 50 million murdered Chinese is somehow understood or mitigated by the 30 million aborted babies here in the US????

Wow. That just don't compute. BOTH are reprehensible. One does NOT mitigate the other.



Not an attack at all. You expressed a valid, lucid  opinion, WITHOUT even calling me a Nazi / terrorist sympathizer. Something others CAN'T seem to be able to keep from doing. I'll debate YOUR style all day long.

[b]I brought Israel into this as a matter of perspective, and a study in contrasts.

What I gather from this thread is that  the NUMBER of dead (50 million Chinese vs. maybe 5,000 Israelis) is NOT a factor in what some people consider morally reprehensible, and what takes priority as far as regards moral outrage.[/b]

[u]I see lots of "explanations" about the genocide of the Chinese. I see moral outrage about the genocide of the Israelis. What IS noteworthy is that the contrasting reactions have apparently NOTHING to do with the magnitude of the death. [b]SOMETHING ELSE[/b] therefore is motivating the palpable, tangible  outrage in the one case, and the near apathy in the other.[/u]

I just found it intriguing, that's all.

In an effort to divert this thread Eastward [;)];

I'm not really up on my Chinese history but I think they have a long tradition of killing newborn females. So this is nothing new for them.

However, if I do recall what I know of Chinese history correctly, their biggest expansion efforts come when the ratio of male/females is so large the males resort to conquest, partly to find females.

Thus, their large number of men on "bachelor farms" may portend to bigger problems in a few years.

Better have plenty of good nukes on hand.

Of course it isn't.  It never has been.  What is the biggest factor is whether we LIKE the people who are getting killed.  Given China's history, most people around here don't like them.

If that's true, what is it about 1-2 year old (possibly younger) Chinese female children that  most people round here find so dislikable????

(The possibility that they would  bear children that one day will grow up to fight us, altho an emotionally charged bit of rhetoric, is NOT an acceptable answer. We DO NOT condone the murder of people for what their hypothetical children MIGHT one day do. [b](It is JUST as likely, that one of those 50 million female children murdered might have given birth to the  child who would one day free China of Communist rule, thereby ending the threat of Chinese Communism to the world - and America in particular)[/b]

[b]SOMETHING ELSE[/b] is driving the paradox, here, Rik.

My wife and I will celebrate our daughter's 1st birthday tomorrow.  

We never could have children of our own and when we decided to adopt we did alot of study on the Internet.

It did not take us long to decide that we would adopt our child from China.  After a year worth of paperwork from the U.S. and China we finally got to travel.

We received our daughter in the middle of April and she is the love of our life.

The trip to China was very educating!

The people in China were very polite and kind.  They loved to speak to us in English because they consider it a good way to practice their English.

I had one person say they wanted to learn REAL English...  not chinglish,  heh  ( English taught by a Chinese talking instructor. )

Poverty over there is very bad.  We saw many slum looking areas only to find out that it was the "normal" housing.  Government housing...

The average apartment ( they do not have houses for the most part ) in China is about 250 sq. ft. in size. The WHOLE apartment!

We went to a Department Store that was very modern and was 7 stories tall.  The service their was incredible!  Never get service like that here in the states...

My feeling on the Chinese problem of infantcide is that the Government is the one to blame.  The Government keeps the people where they want them...

This is a history that torments Chinese mothers.  These women are not heartless monsters that care nothing for their children.  They are forced in to this situation.

I dont know how current the info you guys have on the infantcide problem but nowadays Chinese Adoption is big business in China.  

The numbers are staggering on how many children are being adopted out of China.  

Mainly girls, but there was one boy that was adopted by a family in our travel group where the father was a Chinese American.

It would not surprise me if infantcide is on the downslide in China.  

People that find themselves in that situation just end up leaving their babies near markets or other places where it is known by the police to look every morning for abandoned children.

I would guess the Chinese Govt. netted about $300,000 just in adoption fees from our travel group alone.  Not to mention the money we spent in tourist mode...

There was a travel group just leaving when we arrived in China and right before we left there was another travel just arriving.  

Like I said adoption is big business in China these days...

Our daughter has definately been a gift to us by God.  I never knew in my whole life that you could love someone so much!  Thank God for our baby girl =)

I will post pics once I get my scanner installed.

OK OK OK, it's only 2.5 times greater than the 20 million deaths Stalin caused!

USMC_LB -

Informative and eye opening post.

To me at least.

Thanks.

USMC,

Thank you for sharing that heart felt story of your family.  Now you went and got me all misty eyed..  [:)]

Looks like we all have been deputized as moderators..  or is this old news?  


realist
Moderator

NO - I refuse. They can't MAKE me do it. I WON'T do it.

[:D]

Weird, eh???? [:D]

Garand man..  be carefull now..

You wouldnt want to over-exercise your powers and ban McCuzi.... again  [;)]