I was going to relocate to vermont prior to 9/11 and my plans got put on hold,but i think i'm ready to get the F**K out of jersey,what do you think of this place as a base of operations.
I am going to build a 10,000 sq. ft. Hunting/ski/fishing lodge as a commercial venture.(all logs)
The state of vermont will give me the liquor lic. and it is very cheap.
But what do you guys think of this place ,it's only 119K, here's the description,
Barton cape style home, circa 1900, on 4.5 private acres, 3 bedrooms, 2 baths, office/family room, 4 car garage built in 1992, wood/oil heat. Barn for horses, etc, between Crystal Lake and Willoughby Lake, very affordable. $119,000

[img]http://www.bigbearrevt.com/images/2706.jpg[/img]

I do believe Vermont is a class III state and jason(friday the 13th) ass would be in a world of shit if he came knocking at my door [:D]

I wouldn't take a dump in Vermont, or any other northeastern state either for that matter.

I love New England. Maine is my favorite state.
Yeah, I like winter and don't the mind snow.
The home you are looking at is BEAUTIFUL!
Any idea what the taxes run? Probably much less than what I pay to live in the Philly burbs.

But! This is my kitchen
[img]http://pages.prodigy.net/labradorx3/public_html/kitchen.jpg[/img]
I'd say if it has a kitchen like this...

Okay...So "Jumping Jimmy Jefford's" lives there. You know...gave control of the senate to the Dem's by switching parties???

put your money down! [:D]

As I've said many times before I'm in Real Estate. I buy houses then rehab and resell among other things. I have to say YOUR KITCHEN KICKS ASS [:D] That setup had to be expensive. Was it setup like that when you bought the house or did you have those cabinets put in afterwards?

WoW!  That's a great looking place in VT !
Good gun laws too! (or lack there of)

I wish I could find something like that for that price down here!

Code39, that looks like one high dollar kitchen!

I love Vermont.  I spent the first 22 years of my life there.  It's expensive to live there, but not as expensive and Jersey.  It may be the most gun friendly state in the union and it's beautiful there.  One problem with Vermont is finding jobs, but that is a non-issue if you are starting a business.  My suggestion would be to research location to make sure you have a market and go for it.

Let's buy a huge parcel of land and create an AR15.com compound !!

Vermont is GORGEOUS !  

My wife and I visited a few years ago and were blown away by the friendly people, lack of gun laws, beautiful land, etc...

I'd LOVE to live there someday.

Good Luck JRZY!  Get the "F" out of NJ while 'ya still can.  [:D]

VT is the best! Not like NH & ME that are only 1hr from Boston. A lot the Dems & Liberals move to NH & ME which is why their gun laws have been changing lately. VT is far enough away from Boston that you don't have to worry about it. For $119K, it should leave you more than enough to buy a 4-wheeler with plow, cause your gonna need it! VT, like Northern NH & ME don't plow the roads...they just pack the snow down. Don't be surprised if you have to step down to your driveway.

Other than that, it's perfect and NO gun laws to speak of. Ignore Liberty86's comment. He doesn't know what he is talking about.

Thanks for the Comps! It is a new home we tried to make to like an old farm house.


This is my kitchen
[img]http://pages.prodigy.net/labradorx3/public_html/kitchen.jpg[/img]
[img]http://pages.prodigy.net/labradorx3/public_html/kitm4.jpg[/img]
[img]http://pages.prodigy.net/labradorx3/public_html/kitm41.jpg[/img]




I'd say if it has a kitchen like this...

Okay...So "Jumping Jimmy Jefford's" lives there. You know...gave control of the senate to the Dem's by switching parties???

put your money down! [:D]
[/quote]

Ya know - when I first read this I thought to myself "What a pinhead, he didn't ask what you thought of the entire northeastern seaboard!"

Then I reread it.....and it reaffirmed my first thought.

Lib86 - your response didn't help the poster's question or this thread one bit, but thanks for letting us in on your fecal standards.

RBAD, No no no no NO!

Not a COMPOUND!!!!  A nice commune maybe.  A country club.  A shared housing community perhaps.  But compounds always end up raided by paramilitary government types.  

BTW, on the subject of Vermont, having lived there for a few years it has its ups and downs.  On the up side land with spectacular views is cheap.  Its a nice place to live.  On the down side - just try to get a job.  Not even many MacDonalds to work at.  And about your third winter, around April when there is still snow on the ground, you might wonder what the heck you are doing there.

Even with 100 degrees today I'm happy in Arizona.

James

What's the political front like?

Many demoncrats?

Blairstown, NJ (home of Jason) ----->   FUN, FUN, FUN!

[img]http://www.midnightsociety.com/web/Towns/Friday13/campblood.jpg[/img]

Well, Vermont is a pretty state.  It seemed to snow alot everytime I was up there though.  The roads stayed clear, but it was cold and snow was deep for a long bit of the year.  Not too big a deal, but the main thing is to really do the homework and find out if the venture you're venturing is going to be doable.  

You'll need to find out the business side and make sure the area can support a(another) lodge of the size you're looking at building.  Your start up costs are going to be huge if you have to actually build the log structure itself, and it won't be making any revenue to pay for any of it until it's finnished.  The construction, advertising, marketing, inventory, licenses/permits, and zoning will have to be taken into consideration.  Above all the old "Location, Location, Location" applies to a business even more than a home.  If you think you have the high start-up cost covered, and snow doesn't bother you (while it seemed to be deeper, it didn't seem as bad as it snows farther south oddly enough) I'd go for it.

Ross

That house doesn't look like a bargain to me.  I wouldn't buy it.  You wouldn't happen to have the realtor's number, would you? [:D]

Crap, you couldn't buy a one bedroom condo around here for that.

Dude, why the fuck are you not already packed and leaving a trail of pebbles and dust?

[stick]




[:D]

hmmmm.....

well the roads do get plowed in the winter. unless youre talking about really far out country roads. but for the most part, the roads do get cleared.

there are jobs. but you do have to find them.

expensive to live here for such a little state, yes. but hell....no traffic, no crime for the most part, good hunting (if youre into that  [;)] ), and the best part:

[size=2][red]WE ALL HAVE GUNS![/red][/size=2]


and [red]liberty86[red], im insulted that you wouldnt take a dump here. i do it everyday, sometimes even twice.

jrzy, come look me up when u get here.  lets shoot some [url=http://ar15.com/forums/topic.html?id=134258]cast iron skillets![/url]

redray
I would be honored to shoot some skillets with you and i will be looking forward to being able to get some toys we can't have down here.
Do you guys think there's room for a full auto range with burms on 4 and half acres?

First off I live in Mass, so take what I say at face value. (Out in the country in Wmass...)
If you are serious about living out in the country
you need to relize a few things, (Kind of obvious
really) don't expect city services (this being road maint, police protection (big whoop) or fire protection. Most FD in the country are Volenteer.

expect that your neibors will make noise, often when you don't want them too. (As I am sure you will want to when you fire up the Ol' AR!)
meet the people in the town you want to move to,
find out the politics on the selectboard.
(alot of liberals from the 60's ended up in Vt too along with the good ol' boys.) native Vt'ers
are great folks I spent some time up there when I was growing up. Once my Mom passes I will most likly be escaping up there myself.
As long as you really want the real country you will not be dissapointed. If you have some half assed maybery RFD view you will be.
Good luck.

Vermont,I love to visit vermont.However,I hate to think of what will happen to VT when they want/need FEDERAL Assistance for new roads or the like,and the fed's want the gun laws changed.Im thinking like JJeffords, they'll probably do the same with their gun laws.          ......Barton?.....in Orleans county,Barton VT?.....the PinecrestMotorLodge is in Barton,VT.,it has had a few owners in the last decade.If this place is near there you should do more research,last time I was there they we not doing to good doing the same thing your planning.Not to throw a wet blanket on your plans of course,just supplying a little intel to a AFteendotcomer.

Wildweasel

I wish there was a place like Mayberry ,dont we all?

Well if you find the right town/ people around you you can get close.I grew up in a town that was almost like it with Pa being the local Police chief, (I kid you not!) and us running a lumber mill and it still being a farm community. well
the farms are dieing out, (down to 2 dairy farms and a few hobby farms) whole bunch of lawyers and doctors building huge houses and wanting city services. and since we have no bussiness anymore all taxes are from property taxes now. ($17.00+
per thousand tax rate.)  So to say the least I have a hard time paying property tax on the house and my small 3 and 3/4 acre plot that I bought from my grandmother. So that is another thing you should look at, Property taxes, check to see if the schools in the area have been updated in the last 10 years or so, or expect the "New School" chanters to start up soon... that will cost you bucks too. they start off at a really high figure on the override votes to get you to a "accectable" leval where people get sick of going to town meeting and try to vote it down.. Sorry for the rant, just buy as much land as you can is what I am saying I guess. that way you are insulated from niebors some more too..

I live in Mass, as well.  I am in north central massachusetts, one of the more conservative areas with a big pro-hunting crowd.

Vermont is gradually going liberal.  It is the only state in the Union where same-sex "civil unions" are performed legally. It is the home of Bennington College, one of the most liberal-socialist (and expensive) undergraduate colleges in the world.  It's biggest city, Burlington, is just a hop skip and a jump from Canada and it's life pretty much revolves around the University of Vermont and IBM.

Vermont is LOADED with artist types, really loaded.  As someone else said, the hippies really moved in a number of years ago.  It is also loaded with antique dealers.  In the mountain areas it is dominated by the ski-crowd.  Lots of low-paying seasonal work there.  Mountain biking in the Summer is picking up some of the summer business, but not enough to keep all the hotels and restaurants open all year.

From about May through early July, the black flies are awful.  Those tiny little buggers will suck a 300 pound man dry of blood in about an hour if he doesn't cover up and use good repellent (I'm exagerrating of course, but sometimes it seems that bad.)  There is a definite mud season running from around mid March in the lowlands to maybe early may in the lowlands and perhaps early june in the uplands.

There is a BIG gulf between the haves and the have nots in Vermont. For every perfectly renovated victorian or colonial home you see, chances are you will pass at least two or three run down trailers and small cottages. The have's as often as not, are transplants from New York (downstate) (Vermont was once part of New York state, just as Maine was once part of the Massachusetts colony).  New York style politics are increasingly dominant in Vermont.

Vermont's dearth of gun laws is probably and endangered species unless they start to turn their politics around.  Getting rid of that Rat-F#$k Jeffords would be a good start.   While there is a strong conservative backbone in Vermont, it is mostly rural and the rural vote is losing importance  as the population and power concentrate more and more around Burlington and southern border towns.

As one other person said.  Think this decision through, most hostelry businesses fail in their first couple years of business.  So do some real checking.  Make certain that the area can support the tourism business you plan to support.  Make sure the hunting in the area is good and that there are ample areas to hunt close by.  Find a good local guide or two for the hunting and fishing so your eventual customers stand a decent chance of getting what they are going up there for.  Find a good local butcher who will quickly process any game and either ship it frozen or be able to send the customer home with it.

Scout the local terrain.  Some areas of Vermont are pretty gentle, others are rugged and thick, hard to travel without trails.

Good luck

Just did a touch of research.  The area you are looking at is way up in the Northeast Kingdom...dairy farm country primarily, but it's in the eastern part of that area which is semi-mountainous.  Sort of rolling hill country between New Hampshire's White Mountains and Vermont's Green Mountains and where the land is gradually sloping down toward the Connecticut River, Connecticut Lakes region.  Your nearest major town is St. Johnsbury in Vermont, not what you'd call a huge place, but there is a hospital.   It is REMOTE, but not too isolated and there is vacation traffic, mostly middle class/working class folks rather than the New Yorkers who flood the Western mountain range. From what I know about the the New Hampshire terrain across the river (Geologically a very different place, but demographically similar) it should be decent hunting and fishing ground with whitetail, moose and black bear.  There is some potential.  Other major recreational opportunities will probably include snowmobile touring...btw, get you one if you move there, snowmobiles are basic transportation in Northern Vermont, New Hampshire and MOST of Maine.  There may be some cross-country skiing in the area, but that tends to stick to the mountains as well.

My wife tells me that the terrain is similar to the terrain around Lake George, New York without all the people.

Not a lot of Alpine/Downhill skiing opportunities in that area, maybe some small family oriented hills, but the real Vermont ski traffic is to the west.

Driving distances can deceive in the north country.  As the bird flies it may seem pretty reasonable to jog across to the high mountain resorts for a day of skiing, but very often the roads just don't go that way and you've got to drive two-three times the distance to work your way over.

I know a couple people who may be able to give me good on-the-ground info about the hunting and fishing in the area, but it'll take a few days to gather the info.

Thanks guys ,there are some good points made and good advice,i did all my homework already and know exactly what my business plan will be .
I have a lot of contacts that are in the 6 and 7 figure income range and they will provide me with more than enough high paying guests.
I also have contacts with a lot of people who cirulate with pro gun celebs.
The place will not be for the faint of wallet,there will a gourmet chef on duty and room servive and a rustic bar that will appeal to the skiers in the off hunting and fishing seasons,the start up cost is high and i will do alot of the work that i can.
I'll get the place closed in for under 200K
and finished for under 400K.(excluding land)
And if for some reason it doesn't do well ,then i have a mansion in vermont with the best damn bar in the state.
The idea i have is to cater to Fly fishing in the summer ,hunting in the fall and skiing in the winter with ice fishing to boot.
There is also a 3 week window of the turning of the leaves that will bring in pretty good $$.

icemanat95
The area i am going to build is near Jay peak,the house that i posted a pic of was for a refernce point as to what can be had in vermont for not that much $$.
All the research i have done so fa is for the jay peak area.

jrzy,
where youre headed is the stomping grounds of another member, ARgon.  beautiful area, youll be close to Jay Peak.

ill make sure to visit your place when you arrive and shoot some pesky groundhogs and squirrels with you. 4.5 acres of range? hell yeah thats enough room for full auto!

[img]http://www.bigbearrevt.com/images/2014.jpg[/img]
1170 plus acres of all kinds of beauty, ponds, streams, hardwood, roads throughout property. Plus post & beam home w/wide fantastic views. A lot to offer. Call for more info. $800,000


Here's one [b]AR-15.COM[/b] members should purchase. We could probably become a corporation, purchase this as an investment, build cabins in it, build skeet, trap, sporting clays, full-auto ranges, 500 yd ranges, pistol ranges, stock the pond with trout and bass....

Nor would I in OR, I hear it is the playground for the Califorian OR wanttobes. Let's see, do you have to have a carry permit in OR, No in VT. But hell OR is nice, maybe the fellas from Jersey will like it there! [:D]

New England has some of the most beautiful land to be had.  Politics aside, jrzy...I'd move there in a heartbeat.

me again:  The tax rate in Westmore, VT (lake Willoughby) is $2.07/ thousand last assessed in 1999.  Tax rate in Barton is listed as $.6893 on the town's website.  I can't credit that, it seems impossibly small.  Population in Barton is 62.7 persons /square mile versus 8.1 /square mile in Westmore.  The higher population may allow the significantly lower tax rate. Or it may be a misprint.  By comparison, tax rates in New Hampshire and Massachusetts are often towards 15-20 dollars per thousand.

I would suggest you call the town in which the house is actually located and ask about the tax rate.  Also ask the seller about the cost of heating the existing house, how much oil they use each year, how much wood, etc.   Those numbers can get scary in northern New England, especially in an older home.

Before commiting to purchase, have the house checked out by a good inspector and then assess how much you'll have to drop into the place in repairs.  My wife and I just looked at a house in rural MA.  The property is listing for about 2.5 times what you are looking at and needed a ton of work including replacing the summer beams and portions of the sill, replacing the heating plant, etc.  Unfortunately major repairs like that cost as much or more in rural areas as they do in urban/suburban areas.  The cost of some major structural repairs can be more than the actual value of the home.

If you haven't done so already, go up and put eyes on the property, real-estate web sites are real good at making even a real dog look pretty good.  So arrange a visit, take a real close look at everything. Look in closets, look in the basement, bring your own flashlight, look in the attic. Run the water, flip the lightswitches, etc. Even consider carrying around a small light with an extension cord and plug it in to make sure the sockets work.

Ask about the wiring.  THe house we currently live in had a collection of modern, romex and even knob and tube wiring.  Older wiring is a pain and it can be darned near impossible to replace it in some areas without resorting to surface wiring since turn-of-the-century construction was not particularly limited and regulated by codes or even best practices, so joist, rafter, and stud orientation and placement can contradict expectations.

Once again. good luck.

redray
If we got 1000 members to go in on this ,it's only 800 bucks a man or woman,if we got only 500 ,it's still only 1600 per person.
Come on guys AR15.com heaven [:D]

We have "shall issue" ccw.You can own class3 in OR. We don't have Jeffords and Saunders. My property tax is $750/year on 3.5 treed acres & a 1500 sq ft house. Tax increases are limited by the voters. I am asshole deep in snow -0- times per year, (I'm on the coast). Most of the Californians who move to this area have had it with socialist policy, and are generally welcome. Guys like jrzy and Bear would be more than welcome here, and would probably find more folks here that share their political and moral values. I was raised in Mass. so know a little bit of how much our "founding states" have deteroiated.

Dude, if I had the money and my wife's blessing (harder to get than the money, mind you), I'd snatch it up in a heartbeat.

I live in Miami, where the same $119,000 wouldn't cover the 3-car garage, let alone the rest of the house or the land.

Ridiculous, but true...

CCW is not necessary, many carry with no laws attached, we also can own class 3 and shoot them right on our property, yes we have the burden of Jeffords but don't have a Saunders (surely you mean our Indep. Sanders), we are in ass hole deep snow many times a year (544" in 2000/2001), we don't have web feet (not much rain), tax increases are always voted on by the local folks (called a Town Meeting, first Tues. in March), jrzy and Bear and even you are most welcomed here, we love gun folks, and knowing you grew up in Mass expains your disgust for the area. You should have tried way north VT. My cousin has lived for 15 years in Three Sisters and I think a lot of your neck of the woods. I would love to have the opportunity to take a few dumps there myself. Keep wanting to get out and see him. Stop by when you get back east.  [beer]

Read this ,it's the best firearms state in the country.
If all states were like this the USA would be a
paradise,for me anyway.
[url]http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws.asp?FormMode=Detail&R=VT[/url]

Good find jrzy! We are the benchmark for all other states to follow. Any one that doesn't think so should read your link.  most of my friends and I are all prior military and love firearms. My son is active duty E-7 with 6 in. He is having to ship his guns from Germany fefore fall, because of the new regs there. He gets home about three times a year and we turn out about thirty guys and gals to shoot. It is indeed a very friend gun state and we welcome the same in folks who come here. We also keep our guns on the wall and have for several generations, no theft (at least here). [bounce]

or even 250 people at $3200 each, wouldnt be a bad investment. there is a house and for pete's sake, 1170 acres!!! and a pond! ARgon (Tony) do you know where this place is exactly? might visit this weekend.

click here to view the property: [url]http://www.bigbearrevt.com/2014.asp[/url]

Big Bear Realty is one town over (Troy, VT), so it must be near me. Looks a lot like it. Every place with a pond looks like that in Sept. Have a good weekend shooting, then head to Old Montreal for the night. Lots of pretty French girls (and boys for you AR gals). (back to VT) a lot of great hunting and shooting opportunities.     That bear is still hanging around the house. Any one need a rug?!?

My wife and I and a whole bunch of friends built our place, barn as well. We live in the shadow of Big Jay five miles from the Canadian border. Town of 800, mountains all around us, known as the Green Mountains. Look us up if you get this way.   [beer] there will be a cold one in the Fridge!